/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-11-22 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Nov 22 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: bGriz (~quassel@199.199.212.242) (Remote host closed the connection)
  4. # [00:01] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  5. # [00:02] * Quits: miketaylrrrr (~miketaylr@76-229-242-92.lightspeed.okcbok.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
  6. # [00:04] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-143-147-126.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  7. # [00:05] * Joins: dedis0 (~dedis0@akw403.cs.yale.edu)
  8. # [00:06] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-143-147-126.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  9. # [00:09] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-143-147-126.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Client Quit)
  10. # [00:12] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-143-147-126.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  11. # [00:14] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-44dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: tomasf)
  12. # [00:17] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  13. # [00:24] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: is sleepy)
  14. # [00:28] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-tdflvmgkzbwlvned)
  15. # [00:31] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-143-147-126.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  16. # [00:34] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  17. # [00:34] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  18. # [00:43] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  19. # [00:43] * Quits: espadrine (~thaddee_t@85-218-2-62.dclient.lsne.ch) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  20. # [00:46] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  21. # [00:47] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@ip98-171-188-48.sb.sd.cox.net) (Quit: rniwa)
  22. # [00:48] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  23. # [00:49] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@ip98-171-188-48.sb.sd.cox.net)
  24. # [00:50] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
  25. # [00:52] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25)
  26. # [00:52] <Hixie> so... cross-origin seamless
  27. # [00:53] <Hixie> do we always want the following on any seamless case?:
  28. # [00:53] <Hixie> - links opening in the parent browsing context, not the nested one
  29. # [00:54] <Hixie> - shrink wrapping
  30. # [00:54] <Hixie> - media queries acting as if the bc was the parent, not the iframe
  31. # [00:55] <Hixie> - borders disable by default
  32. # [00:55] <Hixie> - speech media should not announce the iframe as separate
  33. # [00:56] <Hixie> if so, are the only things we _don't_ want to propagate the styles, and the events (not yet specced anyway)?
  34. # [00:59] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@85-170-128-18.rev.numericable.fr) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  35. # [01:03] * doublec_ is now known as doublec
  36. # [01:03] * Quits: doublec (~doublec@cd.pn) (Changing host)
  37. # [01:03] * Joins: doublec (~doublec@unaffiliated/doublec)
  38. # [01:05] * Quits: dedis0 (~dedis0@akw403.cs.yale.edu) (K-Lined)
  39. # [01:13] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25) (Remote host closed the connection)
  40. # [01:18] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  41. # [01:27] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158) (Remote host closed the connection)
  42. # [01:28] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-58-8-187-201.revip2.asianet.co.th)
  43. # [01:31] <abarth> i think the main thing we want is the autosizing
  44. # [01:32] <abarth> which I guess is what you mean by "shrink wrapping"
  45. # [01:32] <Hixie> right
  46. # [01:32] <abarth> disabling borders by default makes sense too
  47. # [01:32] <Hixie> do you know of anyone outside chrome who wants to implement this?
  48. # [01:32] <abarth> (one sec)
  49. # [01:35] <abarth> ok, back
  50. # [01:35] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-uufudtmjvqmoyano) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
  51. # [01:35] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  52. # [01:36] <abarth> there are definitely other folks at Google who would like us to ship seamless
  53. # [01:36] <abarth> and to have crossorigin support
  54. # [01:36] <abarth> I don't know where it is on the priority list for other browser vendors
  55. # [01:38] <abarth> the list you have above looks reasonable if you assume that you already have a fully implementation of seamless
  56. # [01:38] <abarth> if you're looking to lower the activiation energy for implementors, you might want to focus on just the core behaviors
  57. # [01:38] * Quits: divya (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  58. # [01:39] <Hixie> is there an activation energy problem on this front?
  59. # [01:41] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  60. # [01:46] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  61. # [01:47] <Hixie> implementors - if you see anything on this that you want implemented, please do fill in the table or let me know: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/New_Features_Awaiting_Implementation_Interest
  62. # [01:48] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  63. # [01:49] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  64. # [01:52] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  65. # [01:52] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  66. # [01:56] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  67. # [01:58] <othermaciej> Hixie: I'm surprised to learn that Dean Jackson works for Google
  68. # [01:58] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-tdflvmgkzbwlvned) (Quit: sicking)
  69. # [01:58] <othermaciej> how did he manage that and get <dino@apple.com> as his email?!?
  70. # [01:59] <othermaciej> (fixed btw)
  71. # [02:01] * Parts: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
  72. # [02:03] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
  73. # [02:04] <Hixie> othermaciej: oops, i should proof-read the table :-P
  74. # [02:13] * Quits: pablof (~pablof@144.189.150.129) (Quit: ^z)
  75. # [02:18] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-hvogostdmbkdnzav)
  76. # [02:21] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  77. # [02:29] <nessy> Hixie: I'm really happy about that new proposal for cue positioning!
  78. # [02:39] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  79. # [02:45] <GPHemsley> It doesn't make sense to set up a selector for credit card companies.
  80. # [02:45] <GPHemsley> There are too many and the names could change.
  81. # [02:46] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@77.116.246.10.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  82. # [02:49] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@50.0.77.3) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  83. # [02:50] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@cpe-204-210-135-55.hvc.res.rr.com)
  84. # [02:50] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@cpe-204-210-135-55.hvc.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
  85. # [02:51] * JohnAlbin_zzzzzz is now known as JohnAlbin
  86. # [02:51] <GPHemsley> I'm not sure that deleting wiki pages is the best course of action for things that are no longer applicable.
  87. # [02:54] <smaug____> What is FormData in http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/New_Features_Awaiting_Implementation_Interest ?
  88. # [02:54] <smaug____> Something else than http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-formdata ?
  89. # [02:55] <smaug____> I guess just additional features
  90. # [03:00] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  91. # [03:00] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@c-67-161-57-5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  92. # [03:00] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@c-67-161-57-5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  93. # [03:06] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  94. # [03:07] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  95. # [03:11] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  96. # [03:11] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@38.122.109.194) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
  97. # [03:17] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  98. # [03:18] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  99. # [03:18] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  100. # [03:41] * Quits: linclark|afk (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark|afk)
  101. # [03:42] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  102. # [03:43] * Joins: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  103. # [03:44] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-oqpuqftnwavvviwb) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  104. # [03:47] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-169-154-28.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  105. # [03:55] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  106. # [04:00] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-hvogostdmbkdnzav) (Quit: sicking)
  107. # [04:02] * Quits: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net) (Quit: eric_carlson)
  108. # [04:03] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  109. # [04:13] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  110. # [04:15] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@49.176.68.236)
  111. # [04:19] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  112. # [04:27] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  113. # [04:30] * Joins: isherman1 (isherman@nat/google/x-eiybnhuxeqmqhubf)
  114. # [04:31] * Quits: isherman (isherman@nat/google/x-jxkibkgicvjhjvxd) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  115. # [04:32] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  116. # [04:58] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@cpe-76-90-232-115.socal.res.rr.com)
  117. # [05:01] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  118. # [05:03] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-85-231.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  119. # [05:07] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-kyq.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
  120. # [05:10] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  121. # [05:10] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-jr0.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  122. # [05:13] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
  123. # [05:14] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  124. # [05:22] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
  125. # [05:31] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@49.176.68.236) (Quit: Leaving.)
  126. # [05:33] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@v023209.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  127. # [05:36] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  128. # [05:42] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@70-36-142-3.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  129. # [05:42] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.66.20)
  130. # [05:49] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-5.1450hg.fc17 [XULRunner 16.0.2/20121026094416])
  131. # [05:54] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@70-36-142-3.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  132. # [05:55] * Quits: isherman1 (isherman@nat/google/x-eiybnhuxeqmqhubf) (Quit: Leaving.)
  133. # [05:59] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  134. # [05:59] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  135. # [06:00] * Quits: ajt__ (~ajt@li181-64.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  136. # [06:00] * Joins: ajt_ (~ajt@li181-64.members.linode.com)
  137. # [06:08] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@70-36-142-3.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  138. # [06:10] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156)
  139. # [06:17] * Joins: linclark|afk (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  140. # [06:17] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.66.20) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  141. # [06:20] * Quits: linclark|afk (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  142. # [06:28] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  143. # [06:28] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  144. # [06:33] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  145. # [06:34] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@70-36-142-3.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  146. # [06:36] * Joins: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  147. # [06:46] * Joins: WishArt (~WishArt@112.215.45.217)
  148. # [06:52] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  149. # [06:52] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  150. # [06:57] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  151. # [07:02] * Joins: teleject_ (~christoph@cpe-70-112-219-104.austin.res.rr.com)
  152. # [07:02] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-219-104.austin.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  153. # [07:02] * teleject_ is now known as teleject
  154. # [07:03] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  155. # [07:06] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  156. # [07:06] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  157. # [07:06] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-169-154-28.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  158. # [07:15] <zcorpan> Hixie: my recollection from the FOMS conference was that it's more OK to change the width than to change the position
  159. # [07:15] <Hixie> k
  160. # [07:15] * Parts: WishArt (~WishArt@112.215.45.217) ("Leaving")
  161. # [07:15] <zcorpan> Hixie: so at x=50%, widht width=50%?
  162. # [07:15] <Hixie> does the proposal in the bug seem ok?
  163. # [07:15] <zcorpan> s/?//
  164. # [07:15] <zcorpan> i'll have a look
  165. # [07:16] <heycam> zcorpan, thanks for your scoped style test suggestions yesterday
  166. # [07:16] <zcorpan> heycam: np
  167. # [07:17] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  168. # [07:17] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  169. # [07:25] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  170. # [07:26] <zcorpan> Hixie: hmm. my recollection might have been backwards. a different case - align:middle position:0% size:50% - was expected to respect the width and change the position (or possibly have position 0% mean the anchor point is at 0% of the box)
  171. # [07:27] <Hixie> align:middle position:0% size:50% would presumably have text centered in a box covering 0% to 50% from the left, no?
  172. # [07:27] <zcorpan> yes, that's the expected result, but not the result of the current spec, iirc
  173. # [07:27] <Hixie> forget the current spec :-)
  174. # [07:28] <Hixie> look at the proposal in the bug from today
  175. # [07:28] <zcorpan> yeah, haven't got that far yet
  176. # [07:28] <Hixie> :-)
  177. # [07:28] <zcorpan> long bug is long
  178. # [07:28] <Hixie> 20037?
  179. # [07:29] <Hixie> oh yikes, it has lots of comments
  180. # [07:31] <zcorpan> i read a dup first to refresh my memory
  181. # [07:31] <zcorpan> (18501)
  182. # [07:32] * Hixie hates the "reply" link in bugzilla
  183. # [07:33] <Hixie> in other news, why are facebook sending me updates about their policy when I DON'T EVEN HAVE AN ACCOUNT
  184. # [07:33] <zcorpan> align:right position:10%
  185. # [07:33] <zcorpan> should be right-aligned with the right edge 90% across from the left
  186. # [07:33] <zcorpan> Hixie: what's the reasoning for that one?
  187. # [07:34] <Hixie> what would you expect?
  188. # [07:34] <zcorpan> i think i'd expect the left edge be 10% from the left
  189. # [07:35] <Hixie> why?
  190. # [07:36] <Hixie> (i don't disagree, just curious if you have a reason)
  191. # [07:36] <zcorpan> because position should do the same thing regardless of alignment
  192. # [07:36] <Hixie> hm, not sure i agree that that should be an invariant
  193. # [07:36] <Hixie> one reason to design it the way that 0% starts at the alignment edge (though not a reason to expect align:right position:10% on the right) is that it means that align:right size:10% will be on the right, which people seem to expect
  194. # [07:37] <Hixie> (if we default position:0%)
  195. # [07:40] <zcorpan> position could have an 'auto' default that makes right-aligned cues by default have the right edge at 100%, or some such
  196. # [07:41] <Hixie> auto values are just a pain
  197. # [07:46] <zcorpan> Hixie: i thought what was considered confusing was that the different settings depend on each other. the new proposal still does that
  198. # [07:47] <Hixie> different people have different ideas of what is confusing
  199. # [07:47] <Hixie> but i don't really see how the values can't depend on each other
  200. # [07:47] <Hixie> at least, not if we want it to have a reasonable number of settings and not have to specify them all all the time
  201. # [07:49] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  202. # [07:51] <zcorpan> maybe we should have 'left' and 'right' settings instead of 'position'
  203. # [07:51] <zcorpan> both default to 0
  204. # [07:51] <zcorpan> and work like absolute positioning in css
  205. # [07:52] <zcorpan> (or 'start' and 'end' if it should be flipped for rtl)
  206. # [07:52] * Joins: xiinotulp (~plutoniix@ppp-115-87-212-96.revip4.asianet.co.th)
  207. # [07:56] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-58-8-187-201.revip2.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  208. # [08:00] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
  209. # [08:01] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@36-224-108-89.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Quit: HTTP/1.1 404 JohnAlbin Not Found)
  210. # [08:03] <Hixie> zcorpan: i dunno, i think most people are more likely to think in terms of width than position
  211. # [08:04] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  212. # [08:04] * xiinotulp is now known as plutoniix
  213. # [08:07] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@85-170-128-18.rev.numericable.fr)
  214. # [08:09] <zcorpan> i've commented on the bug
  215. # [08:10] * Quits: CyclicFlux (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  216. # [08:10] <zcorpan> Hixie: also see comment 0 in 18501 ("It seems to me that what authors needs the ability to specify is:")
  217. # [08:13] <Hixie> yeah i looked at all the dupes pretty carefully
  218. # [08:19] * Joins: Malese (~Martin_L@194.18.12.26)
  219. # [08:20] * Quits: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  220. # [08:24] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  221. # [08:26] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  222. # [08:31] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
  223. # [08:36] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  224. # [08:37] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se)
  225. # [08:38] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  226. # [08:38] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  227. # [08:39] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydx)
  228. # [08:43] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
  229. # [08:45] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  230. # [08:45] * Quits: imrobert (~robert@139.62.87.109) (Quit: leaving)
  231. # [08:47] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@cpe-76-90-232-115.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: tantek)
  232. # [08:47] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  233. # [08:48] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180)
  234. # [08:50] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  235. # [08:51] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E39B9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  236. # [08:53] * Joins: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  237. # [09:03] * Joins: victor2 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net)
  238. # [09:04] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  239. # [09:11] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
  240. # [09:16] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  241. # [09:17] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  242. # [09:22] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
  243. # [09:23] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@23.212-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  244. # [09:24] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  245. # [09:25] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@85-170-128-18.rev.numericable.fr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  246. # [09:27] * Parts: victor2 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net)
  247. # [09:29] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.145.84)
  248. # [09:35] * Joins: victor2 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net)
  249. # [09:35] * Quits: victor2 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net) (Client Quit)
  250. # [09:37] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  251. # [09:38] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  252. # [09:44] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  253. # [09:44] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  254. # [09:44] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
  255. # [09:45] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  256. # [09:49] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  257. # [09:49] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  258. # [09:50] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
  259. # [09:50] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@v023209.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Quit: jdaggett)
  260. # [09:51] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  261. # [09:53] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@2001:200:1c0:2402:e2f8:47ff:fe19:7950)
  262. # [09:56] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  263. # [09:56] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  264. # [10:02] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.65.187)
  265. # [10:02] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.65.187) (Changing host)
  266. # [10:02] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
  267. # [10:02] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net)
  268. # [10:03] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  269. # [10:06] <hsivonen> can someone remind me how an HTTP client determines if a response entity body exists?
  270. # [10:08] <hsivonen> in particular, how can a client differentiate between zero-length response entity body and the absence of a response entity body?
  271. # [10:16] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@ip98-171-188-48.sb.sd.cox.net) (Quit: rniwa)
  272. # [10:19] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  273. # [10:19] <hsivonen> https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/httpbis/draft-ietf-httpbis/latest/p1-messaging.html#message.body suggests there's no other way than looking at the request method and response code
  274. # [10:20] <hsivonen> yay for not speccing what the client should do if a message body is present when it MUST NOT be present
  275. # [10:23] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@vev69-1-82-232-219-95.fbx.proxad.net)
  276. # [10:23] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  277. # [10:25] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180) (Remote host closed the connection)
  278. # [10:25] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
  279. # [10:26] * Joins: didymos (~didymos@5.57.48.69)
  280. # [10:30] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  281. # [10:33] <annevk> Hixie: I think I need some more concrete details on the event retargeting stuff
  282. # [10:33] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
  283. # [10:35] * Joins: emailshwetank (~shwetank@108-61-55-75ch.openskytelcom.net)
  284. # [10:35] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.145.84) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  285. # [10:40] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180)
  286. # [10:41] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  287. # [10:47] <annevk> Hixie: I added a proposal to the bug
  288. # [10:49] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B326F31.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  289. # [10:51] <annevk> hsivonen: dude, cannot expect anything else from a spec written by jreschke really
  290. # [10:52] <annevk> hsivonen: in rare cases you can convince mnot and then they have to play ball, but other than that it's riddles all the way down
  291. # [10:53] <jgraham> A riddle inside a mystery inside an engigma inside a RFC?
  292. # [10:53] <jgraham> *enigma
  293. # [10:54] <annevk> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/New_Features_Awaiting_Implementation_Interest is a great idea
  294. # [10:54] <annevk> jgraham: yeah, waiting for gsnedders to solve it
  295. # [10:58] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  296. # [11:00] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  297. # [11:02] <annevk> marcosc: feel free to update the wiki
  298. # [11:02] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p5082A936.dip.t-dialin.net)
  299. # [11:03] <annevk> marcosc: also, @WHATWG is not really an entity, it just shares info, I'm kinda hesitant to reply from it
  300. # [11:11] <zcorpan> the best part about @supports is that you get to repeat all your vendor-prefixed declarations once more.
  301. # [11:12] <zcorpan> now cue a vendor-prefixed impl of @supports and we're home
  302. # [11:13] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
  303. # [11:14] <Ms2ger> fantasai++
  304. # [11:16] <kennyluck> What happned?
  305. # [11:18] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  306. # [11:18] <Ms2ger> XKCD happened
  307. # [11:18] <darobin> odinho: https://w3c-test.org:444/ is now open for you to have all sorts of fun with
  308. # [11:19] <MikeSmith> darobin: so what did the problem turn out to be?
  309. # [11:19] <MikeSmith> or rather, the cause of the problem?
  310. # [11:19] <darobin> MikeSmith: it was just that port 444 was not open
  311. # [11:19] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  312. # [11:19] <darobin> it's what I thought, I just wanted to check that it was okay to open it before doing so
  313. # [11:20] <MikeSmith> I mean the OPTIONS problem
  314. # [11:20] <darobin> oh, that we haven't solved :(
  315. # [11:20] <MikeSmith> ah
  316. # [11:20] <darobin> I can't for the life of me figure out what's going on
  317. # [11:20] <odinho> darobin: Okay, can add those two tests back then, and maybe plan some moar fun later ;-)
  318. # [11:20] <darobin> mmmm, actually I have an idea
  319. # [11:21] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  320. # [11:21] <annevk> FWIW, I'm likely to remove 'If the "user:password" format in the userinfo production is not supported for the relevant <scheme> and url contains this format, throw a "SyntaxError" and terminate these steps.' from XHR soonish
  321. # [11:22] <annevk> oh, and I guess I'll make XHR depend on URL
  322. # [11:23] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@2001:200:1c0:2402:e2f8:47ff:fe19:7950) (Remote host closed the connection)
  323. # [11:23] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-115-87-212-96.revip4.asianet.co.th) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  324. # [11:23] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-85-231.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  325. # [11:23] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@2001:200:1c0:2402:e2f8:47ff:fe19:7950)
  326. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> darobin: so what's different about the port 444 server?
  327. # [11:26] <zcorpan> i hope the only difference is the different port number :-)
  328. # [11:27] <zcorpan> (useful for origin tests)
  329. # [11:27] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@23.212-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  330. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> ah OK
  331. # [11:27] * MikeSmith reads the logs from yesterday
  332. # [11:27] <darobin> MikeSmith: the 444 is just for CORS testing for SSL, odinho wanted it
  333. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> 了解
  334. # [11:28] <darobin> it's a separate problem from OPTION
  335. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> ok
  336. # [11:28] * darobin cries a little
  337. # [11:28] <darobin> I hate Apache
  338. # [11:30] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@office.oslo.opera.com)
  339. # [11:33] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@2001:200:1c0:2402:e2f8:47ff:fe19:7950) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  340. # [11:36] <zcorpan> given a worker like this: postMessage(1); close(); postMessage(2);
  341. # [11:36] <zcorpan> how many messages should be received on the other end?
  342. # [11:37] <darobin> sigh, our version of Apache is too old to support trace-level logging...
  343. # [11:39] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpna218.ugent.be)
  344. # [11:41] * Joins: richbradshaw (~richbrads@cpc5-newt32-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com)
  345. # [11:41] * Quits: richbradshaw (~richbrads@cpc5-newt32-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
  346. # [11:44] * Joins: cfq (~cfq@static.85-10-200-244.clients.your-server.de)
  347. # [11:45] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  348. # [11:48] <zcorpan> i think the answer is 2
  349. # [11:49] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpna218.ugent.be) (Quit: bbl)
  350. # [11:50] <annevk> zcorpan: depends on the queuing :)
  351. # [11:51] <zcorpan> annevk: can you elaborate?
  352. # [11:51] <annevk> zcorpan: I don't know how this part of workers work, but I assume these put all something on a queue of some kind
  353. # [11:51] <annevk> works*
  354. # [11:52] <zcorpan> if you don't know, you're not helping :-P
  355. # [11:55] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  356. # [11:55] <annevk> zcorpan: actually seems the answer is 0
  357. # [11:56] <zcorpan> annevk: why?
  358. # [11:57] <annevk> I'm having a hard time finding the actual definition of postMessage, but if that queues tasks, and close() nukes all existing tasks and prevents further tasks to be queued, seems like 0 is the answer
  359. # [11:57] <zcorpan> the confusing part is that there are several event loops here
  360. # [11:58] <zcorpan> and neither close() nor postMessage() are clear on which they refer to
  361. # [11:58] <annevk> oh, postMessage() puts tasks on the other end
  362. # [11:58] <zcorpan> yes
  363. # [11:58] <annevk> then you're correct
  364. # [11:59] <annevk> but the spec could be a bit more explicit about task queues indeed
  365. # [11:59] <annevk> and also provide a forward reference to the actual postMessage method that is invoked
  366. # [11:59] <zcorpan> thanks. i'll file bugs
  367. # [12:00] <annevk> I was right though, depends on the queuing :p
  368. # [12:08] * Quits: Obvious_MkII (tachikoma@188.226.74.2) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  369. # [12:10] * Joins: Obvious (tachikoma@188.226.74.2)
  370. # [12:12] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Remote host closed the connection)
  371. # [12:13] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  372. # [12:15] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31)
  373. # [12:17] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  374. # [12:31] * Joins: reinaldo_ (~reinaldob@177.24.128.149)
  375. # [12:32] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
  376. # [12:32] * Quits: reinaldo_ (~reinaldob@177.24.128.149) (Remote host closed the connection)
  377. # [12:34] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  378. # [12:34] * Joins: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wsziugaffnqulvuu)
  379. # [12:34] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.145.84)
  380. # [12:34] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  381. # [12:35] * Quits: didymos (~didymos@5.57.48.69) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  382. # [12:37] * Quits: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  383. # [12:38] * Quits: emailshwetank (~shwetank@108-61-55-75ch.openskytelcom.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  384. # [12:38] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193)
  385. # [12:39] * Joins: baku (~baku@93-40-114-39.ip38.fastwebnet.it)
  386. # [12:39] * Joins: didymos (~didymos@5.57.48.69)
  387. # [12:40] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-169-154-28.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  388. # [12:41] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-174-71.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  389. # [12:45] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180) (Quit: Leaving.)
  390. # [13:00] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229)
  391. # [13:03] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  392. # [13:13] <AryehGregor> annevk, marcosc, https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12296 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12220
  393. # [13:15] <annevk> knew it
  394. # [13:19] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  395. # [13:19] <hsivonen> annevk: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2011Dec/att-0021/encoding-labels.html contains at least one multibyte encoding
  396. # [13:19] <hsivonen> annevk: and it claims no one supports it
  397. # [13:20] <hsivonen> annevk: would the testing methodology have resulted in an indication of non-support when an encoding is, in fact, multibyte?
  398. # [13:20] <annevk> which one?
  399. # [13:20] <hsivonen> t.61-8bit
  400. # [13:21] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
  401. # [13:21] <hsivonen> annevk: multibyte according to http://std.dkuug.dk/i18n/charmaps/T.61-8BIT
  402. # [13:22] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.145.84) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
  403. # [13:22] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  404. # [13:23] <annevk> hsivonen: I suppose that could have happened, yes
  405. # [13:23] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  406. # [13:23] <annevk> hsivonen: though note that per http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Web_Encodings Gecko is the only one to support that encoding
  407. # [13:24] <annevk> oh, IE might have support too under a different label
  408. # [13:29] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  409. # [13:30] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
  410. # [13:32] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.145.84)
  411. # [13:34] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  412. # [13:34] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  413. # [13:37] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  414. # [13:39] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  415. # [13:40] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Quit: Leaving.)
  416. # [13:44] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  417. # [13:46] <annevk> funny how this stuff works: http://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2012-January/019182.html
  418. # [13:46] <annevk> I'm pretty sure that group at Adobe is basically Vincent Hardy, who has been asking for this for a long time
  419. # [13:48] <annevk> he might even have done the original progress event spec in SVG, dunno
  420. # [13:48] <annevk> (which was intended for image downloads and such)
  421. # [13:52] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156) (Remote host closed the connection)
  422. # [13:54] * Joins: drublic_ (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  423. # [13:56] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  424. # [13:59] * lilmonkey` is now known as lilmonkey
  425. # [13:59] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.178.25.158)
  426. # [14:00] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
  427. # [14:12] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Quit: kennyluck)
  428. # [14:17] * Joins: darobin_ (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  429. # [14:19] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  430. # [14:19] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@1.186.9.220)
  431. # [14:19] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@1.186.9.220) (Changing host)
  432. # [14:19] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash)
  433. # [14:26] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  434. # [14:26] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  435. # [14:28] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  436. # [14:36] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180)
  437. # [14:40] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-174-71.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  438. # [14:41] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  439. # [14:49] <annevk> So I wanted to fix that URL bug in XHR, but I wonder if maybe the design in the URL spec should be tweaked a bit more
  440. # [14:50] <annevk> Instead of having a "fatal error flag" parsing would just return failure and URLUtils would not have an associated URL object
  441. # [14:52] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@62.sub-70-192-79.myvzw.com)
  442. # [14:52] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  443. # [14:54] <annevk> yup :)
  444. # [14:57] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.68.149)
  445. # [14:57] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.68.149) (Changing host)
  446. # [14:57] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
  447. # [14:58] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@62.sub-70-192-79.myvzw.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  448. # [14:59] <gsnedders> jgraham: Waiting for me to solve what?
  449. # [15:00] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@62.sub-70-192-79.myvzw.com)
  450. # [15:03] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  451. # [15:06] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@77.117.247.179.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  452. # [15:08] <darobin_> jgraham: you probably want to chat with this guy https://twitter.com/graouts/status/271615076023287809
  453. # [15:08] * darobin_ is now known as darobin
  454. # [15:08] <darobin> (he's a friend and generally a good guy)
  455. # [15:11] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: tomasf)
  456. # [15:14] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@62.sub-70-192-79.myvzw.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  457. # [15:14] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@62.sub-70-192-79.myvzw.com)
  458. # [15:21] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash) (Quit: Leaving)
  459. # [15:24] * Joins: auchenbe_ (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  460. # [15:24] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  461. # [15:30] * Quits: Malese (~Martin_L@194.18.12.26) (Remote host closed the connection)
  462. # [15:32] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  463. # [15:34] <darobin> good catch odinho
  464. # [15:35] <odinho> darobin: Only generally? :P
  465. # [15:35] <darobin> is anyone ever more than generally ;-)
  466. # [15:36] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-147-244-236.as13285.net)
  467. # [15:40] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se)
  468. # [15:46] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
  469. # [15:50] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@84.241.205.67)
  470. # [15:53] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@62.sub-70-192-79.myvzw.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  471. # [16:01] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  472. # [16:02] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  473. # [16:03] * Quits: auchenbe_ (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Remote host closed the connection)
  474. # [16:03] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
  475. # [16:04] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@84.241.205.67) (Remote host closed the connection)
  476. # [16:11] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  477. # [16:15] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  478. # [16:16] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  479. # [16:18] <jgraham> darobin: You are right, I do
  480. # [16:19] <darobin> jgraham: if he doesn't show up on IRC and you'd like a way to ping him outside Twitter just ask
  481. # [16:19] <darobin> (if you have a Twitter account, I don't know it)
  482. # [16:19] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@office.oslo.opera.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  483. # [16:19] <jgraham> (I have an unused twitter account)
  484. # [16:20] <jgraham> Also, I commented on github
  485. # [16:20] <annevk> fwiw, new URL can now sometimes fail
  486. # [16:21] <zewt> are there any ctors on the platform that do that?
  487. # [16:22] * Quits: didymos (~didymos@5.57.48.69) (Quit: Woop)
  488. # [16:22] <zewt> (failing instead of being in an error state does seem to make more sense as an interface)
  489. # [16:27] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  490. # [16:28] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  491. # [16:30] * drublic_ is now known as drublic
  492. # [16:31] <annevk> zewt: you mean like XMLHttpRequest?
  493. # [16:31] <annevk> zewt: or maybe like new Image() if the argument cannot be coerced to an integer?
  494. # [16:32] <zewt> when can xhr's ctor fail? (webidl dispatch doesn't count, that's before it runs)
  495. # [16:32] <zewt> (note i'm not objecting, just wondering if this is a new thing or not)
  496. # [16:33] <zewt> gah i accidentally loaded the w3's copy of xhr2 and hooooooly shit they fucked it up
  497. # [16:33] <zewt> NO TEST COVERAGE
  498. # [16:33] <zewt> NO TEST COVERAGE
  499. # [16:33] <zewt> NO TEST COVERAGE
  500. # [16:33] <zewt> my eyes are bleeding
  501. # [16:33] <annevk> oh wait, XHR doesn't fail, doh
  502. # [16:33] <annevk> open() fails
  503. # [16:34] <zewt> i find it fascinating that they removed all links to the real spec (used to be the ED link went to yours), yet "participate" still points here
  504. # [16:34] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  505. # [16:35] <annevk> I found it rather odd to be "former editor" despite having written all the text
  506. # [16:36] <annevk> I commented on that here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2012OctDec/0538.html but thus far nobody seems to care
  507. # [16:37] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E39B9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  508. # [16:37] <zewt> it's also fascinating that it apparently takes three people to copy one person's stuff
  509. # [16:38] <annevk> finally found an example, Worker throws, for exactly the same reason (URL cannot be parsed)
  510. # [16:39] <annevk> Worker can also throw for undisclosed security reasons
  511. # [16:40] <annevk> EventSource too
  512. # [16:40] <annevk> WebSocket too
  513. # [16:43] <zewt> hmm
  514. # [16:45] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
  515. # [16:45] <zewt> if new URL(url.href).href always round-trips, then in principle the ctor base argument could just be URLString, but I guess it doesn't matter
  516. # [16:45] <annevk> what is a URLString?
  517. # [16:47] <zewt> a will it blend
  518. # [16:47] * Joins: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@host53.186-124-125.telecom.net.ar)
  519. # [16:47] <zewt> DOMString
  520. # [16:48] <annevk> I'm not sure I follow. I think the main remaining annoyance is changing protocol
  521. # [16:49] <annevk> I'm sort of wondering if setting protocol should only work as long as you don't change relativeness.
  522. # [16:49] <annevk> So if the current scheme is a relative scheme it can only be another relative scheme, and if the current scheme isn't, it can only be a non-relative scheme
  523. # [16:49] <annevk> that way you keep the invariants and don't need something weird like the "relative flag"
  524. # [16:50] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  525. # [16:56] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  526. # [16:59] * Quits: Somatt (famic@hidden.dns.ug) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  527. # [17:03] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Remote host closed the connection)
  528. # [17:03] * Joins: Famic (famic@hidden.dns.ug)
  529. # [17:05] * Quits: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  530. # [17:10] <annevk> In other news, I'm hitting more cases that at some point need to be defined in "Fetch"
  531. # [17:14] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se) (Quit: tomasf)
  532. # [17:18] * Joins: TheBrainWork (~TheBrainW@unaffiliated/thebrain)
  533. # [17:18] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  534. # [17:23] <odinho> zewt: I think linking up tests to the spec page is a very nice idea. I hope it's the styling you're mostly worried about :-)
  535. # [17:23] <annevk> oh hey hallvors!
  536. # [17:23] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  537. # [17:23] <annevk> hallvors: so I'm planning on making another change to XHR
  538. # [17:24] <annevk> hallvors: currently it's either same-origin or cross-origin
  539. # [17:24] <annevk> hallvors: I think we should put some checks on cross-origin too, for either http/https scheme in the request URL
  540. # [17:24] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  541. # [17:25] <annevk> hallvors: and then have "otherwise" be a case where it's just a network error
  542. # [17:25] <annevk> hallvors: thinking about it more, I guess that's another thing that "Fetch" should handle
  543. # [17:25] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31)
  544. # [17:27] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  545. # [17:32] * Joins: imrobert (~robert@139.62.87.109)
  546. # [17:33] * nimbu is now known as divya
  547. # [17:39] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  548. # [17:45] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193) (Quit: Leaving.)
  549. # [17:45] <annevk> Hixie: should http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-xmlhttprequest instead read "set document to the active document of the global object on which xhr's interface object is located"?
  550. # [17:46] <annevk> hallvors: ^^
  551. # [17:46] * Joins: Zauberfisch_ (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3)
  552. # [17:49] * Quits: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  553. # [17:53] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@95-24-146-164.broadband.corbina.ru)
  554. # [17:57] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@23.212-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  555. # [17:58] <annevk> odinho: Velmont: you around?
  556. # [17:59] <annevk> odinho: Velmont: is the "userinfo" bit from http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#redirect-steps tested? I'm thinking it's bogus
  557. # [18:00] * Quits: baku (~baku@93-40-114-39.ip38.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: Leaving)
  558. # [18:01] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  559. # [18:02] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@76-229-242-92.lightspeed.okcbok.sbcglobal.net)
  560. # [18:02] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|lunch
  561. # [18:03] * Quits: divya (~nimbu@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  562. # [18:04] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@76-229-242-92.lightspeed.okcbok.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
  563. # [18:08] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl11-211-109.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  564. # [18:09] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@ip98-171-188-48.sb.sd.cox.net)
  565. # [18:10] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
  566. # [18:11] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.145.84) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  567. # [18:12] <odinho> annevk: There was some, but xhr tests are kinda broken.
  568. # [18:13] <odinho> Ah, fetch - not xhr :P Hm. They should be.
  569. # [18:13] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  570. # [18:13] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  571. # [18:14] <annevk> odinho: so you have Location: http://test:test@test.com/ somewhere in there which is valid except for the test:test part?
  572. # [18:14] <annevk> hmm
  573. # [18:14] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  574. # [18:17] <odinho> No. They are not I have some started things lying on T server at Opera, but I never actually moved them anywhere because I hit some snags I think. Long time ago now. Never thought more about it :P
  575. # [18:17] <odinho> Just that small thing might be easy to add though.
  576. # [18:25] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.178.25.158) (Quit: Leaving.)
  577. # [18:27] <annevk> well, I might want to kill it
  578. # [18:27] <annevk> so I'd prefer it if you don't :)
  579. # [18:29] <odinho> annevk: http://test.s0.no/w3c-tests/webappsec/tests/cors/submitted/opera/staging/redirect-userinfo.htm
  580. # [18:29] <odinho> ^_^ Opera implements it.
  581. # [18:29] <odinho> WebKit also passes. (if the test is correct though)
  582. # [18:29] <odinho> Firefox times out.
  583. # [18:30] <odinho> IE10 passes.
  584. # [18:30] <annevk> k
  585. # [18:31] <odinho> So pretty god coverage. 3/4 engines do it.
  586. # [18:31] <odinho> (with the above caveat)
  587. # [18:31] <annevk> ah yeah, redirects only work for simple requests, so yeah, that seems good then
  588. # [18:32] <annevk> Fetch is gonna be one complicated algorithm :/
  589. # [18:32] <annevk> (though I guess that's also kinda fun)
  590. # [18:34] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@188.244.181.72)
  591. # [18:35] <odinho> (it doesn't really have to though ... but ohwell :P)
  592. # [18:35] <annevk> odinho: what doesn't have to?
  593. # [18:36] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl11-211-109.dsl.telepac.pt)
  594. # [18:37] <odinho> Added some more tests to it. They're more to do with actual "what is userinfo" so I guess some of them are bad. Opera kills requests with //user:pass@ and //user:@ but not for //:pass@ //:@ or //@. Guess you can tell me how that stuff works from head? :]
  595. # [18:37] <odinho> annevk: preflighted requests _could_ also do redirects, I haven't seen any problems with it, as long as the preflight got a 200 OK back on the preflight request itself. -- So, possible, as in, it'd be possible to make the spec more complicated if you wanted :D I think.
  596. # [18:40] <odinho> "Userinfo is a username, optionally followed by a ":" and a password." -- so sounds sane.
  597. # [18:44] <odinho> Checked the referenced document in the fetch spec, rfc2616 -- but that was super unhelpful. You should just link to the real URL spec :-)
  598. # [18:47] <annevk> odinho: just @ doesn't mean anything
  599. # [18:48] <annevk> the others should fail
  600. # [18:48] <annevk> odinho: I will update it shortly
  601. # [18:49] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  602. # [18:49] <annevk> well, shortly, next time I touch fetch, dunno when that'll be
  603. # [18:53] * abstractj|lunch is now known as abstractj
  604. # [18:55] <odinho> IE10 is green on all, opera green on all but :pass@ :@ @, chromium green on all but :@ @, firefox only green on :@ :pass@
  605. # [18:55] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  606. # [18:57] <odinho> So noone does what it "should" be, then: green on all but @
  607. # [18:59] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
  608. # [19:08] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31) (Remote host closed the connection)
  609. # [19:15] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5d84f78c.pool.mediaWays.net)
  610. # [19:18] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@vev69-1-82-232-219-95.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  611. # [19:19] * Joins: cyclicflux (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179)
  612. # [19:20] * Joins: cyclicflux_ (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179)
  613. # [19:20] * cyclicflux is now known as Guest70182
  614. # [19:22] * Joins: Malese (~Martin_L@81-233-190-9-no212.tbcn.telia.com)
  615. # [19:25] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-85-231.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  616. # [19:28] * Quits: cyclicflux_ (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  617. # [19:31] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Quit: is sleepy)
  618. # [19:37] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082A936.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
  619. # [19:42] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  620. # [19:44] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
  621. # [19:45] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@85-170-128-18.rev.numericable.fr)
  622. # [19:45] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@188.244.181.72) (Remote host closed the connection)
  623. # [19:58] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  624. # [19:58] * Joins: Druide__ (~Druid@p5B05C728.dip.t-dialin.net)
  625. # [19:59] * Quits: Druide_ (~Druid@p5B134EC0.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  626. # [20:19] * Joins: victor3 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net)
  627. # [20:19] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl)
  628. # [20:19] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl) (Changing host)
  629. # [20:19] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick)
  630. # [20:25] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  631. # [20:26] <zcorpan> annevk: firefox fails to resolve data:test
  632. # [20:32] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  633. # [20:47] * Parts: victor3 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net)
  634. # [20:49] <SimonSapin> zcorpan: data:,test works, though
  635. # [20:50] <SimonSapin> or data:test,
  636. # [20:50] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: yes, they are legal
  637. # [20:53] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  638. # [20:56] * Joins: annevk5 (~annevk5@84.241.200.111)
  639. # [20:57] <annevk5> Yeah I know, but they might change that. We could put data in the main URL parser, but that is not going to scale...
  640. # [20:59] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-174-71.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  641. # [21:00] <SimonSapin> it’s a completely different syntax, isn’t it?
  642. # [21:00] <annevk5> Well all URLs have their own syntax bits...
  643. # [21:01] <annevk5> mailto is not handled in any special way either
  644. # [21:01] <SimonSapin> in any case I would like to have the syntax well defined. Using email libs to parse the charset in data: is, well, not pretty https://github.com/Kozea/WeasyPrint/blob/master/weasyprint/urls.py#L188
  645. # [21:03] <annevk5> data's syntax is defined, no? There might be some issues with the MIME type parsjng
  646. # [21:04] <annevk5> My plan is to define URL processing at some point, with per-scheme rules for schemes that need it and do not have it
  647. # [21:06] <SimonSapin> annevk5: it’s defined in http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2397#section-3 , but I’m a bit fuzzy on quoted strings etc.
  648. # [21:07] <annevk5> Everyone is
  649. # [21:08] <annevk5> I might look into a clearer definition at some point, but maybe I can convince you to write it? :)
  650. # [21:09] <SimonSapin> maybe :)
  651. # [21:10] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
  652. # [21:11] <SimonSapin> annevk5: do you think it is possible to define to find a web-compatible subset of the syntax for data: headers that does not depend on all of MIME?
  653. # [21:13] <annevk5> You need MIME, but what exactly that is...
  654. # [21:13] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@pool-108-27-218-42.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  655. # [21:15] <SimonSapin> I could very well be convince to help with this, but I’d need some guidance :)
  656. # [21:17] <annevk5> Tomorrow :(
  657. # [21:18] <annevk5> Euh, :) silly phone
  658. # [21:18] <Ms2ger> That's pretty phoney
  659. # [21:25] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Quit: is sleepy)
  660. # [21:26] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  661. # [21:28] * Quits: annevk5 (~annevk5@84.241.200.111) (Remote host closed the connection)
  662. # [21:40] * Joins: annevk5 (~annevk5@84.241.200.111)
  663. # [21:42] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@95-24-146-164.broadband.corbina.ru) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  664. # [21:50] * Quits: annevk5 (~annevk5@84.241.200.111) (Remote host closed the connection)
  665. # [21:59] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydx)
  666. # [22:05] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-174-71.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  667. # [22:09] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
  668. # [22:17] * Joins: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  669. # [22:18] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.142.251.119)
  670. # [22:35] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  671. # [22:41] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@pool-108-27-218-42.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  672. # [22:46] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  673. # [22:46] * Quits: Malese (~Martin_L@81-233-190-9-no212.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  674. # [22:48] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@23.212-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: nn)
  675. # [22:49] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se)
  676. # [22:51] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.66.20)
  677. # [22:52] * Joins: nessy (silviapf@nat/google/x-ouajsantxrmcacme)
  678. # [22:54] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
  679. # [23:04] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se) (Quit: tomasf)
  680. # [23:04] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  681. # [23:06] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  682. # [23:07] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.142.251.119) (Quit: sedovsek)
  683. # [23:13] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl11-211-109.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  684. # [23:14] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24) (Remote host closed the connection)
  685. # [23:20] * Quits: TheBrainWork (~TheBrainW@unaffiliated/thebrain) (Quit: Leaving.)
  686. # [23:23] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  687. # [23:24] * Joins: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  688. # [23:24] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Client Quit)
  689. # [23:27] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180) (Quit: Leaving.)
  690. # [23:30] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Quit: Leaving.)
  691. # [23:37] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  692. # [23:44] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  693. # [23:47] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
  694. # [23:49] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  695. # [23:54] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
  696. # [23:55] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl)
  697. # [23:55] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl) (Changing host)
  698. # [23:55] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick)
  699. # [23:55] * Quits: tndrH (~Rob@82.30.171.91) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 15.0.1/20120905151427])
  700. # [23:57] <GPHemsley> AFAICT, no browser detects OTF or TTC fonts
  701. # [23:59] <GPHemsley> Also, is there a way for me to turn off automatically downloading files in Safari?
  702. # Session Close: Fri Nov 23 00:00:00 2012

The end :)