/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-11-24 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sat Nov 24 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <zewt> dunno why that wasn't intuitive to me before
  4. # [00:02] <zewt> maybe the only actual difference between shadow and blur in PS is exposing different knobs
  5. # [00:05] * Quits: kamals (~kamals@5.43.203.151) (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
  6. # [00:13] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31)
  7. # [00:16] <zewt> https://zewt.org/~glenn/shadow2.png yeah, it's a shadow of the inversion of the layer, not just putting the shadow on top
  8. # [00:23] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@pool-100-2-233-63.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  9. # [00:27] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@1.186.9.220)
  10. # [00:27] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@1.186.9.220) (Changing host)
  11. # [00:27] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash)
  12. # [00:35] <zewt> i guess that's equivalent to just inverting the shadow after blurring (why is this unintuitive to me? it's not like i haven't implemented shadows and blurs a zillion times)
  13. # [00:36] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  14. # [00:38] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  15. # [00:43] * paul_irish_ is now known as paul_irish
  16. # [00:53] <Hixie> oh!
  17. # [00:53] <Hixie> well then you _can_ do it on canvas
  18. # [00:54] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-173-229.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  19. # [00:56] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-199-150.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  20. # [01:00] <annevk> GPHemsley: I still don't think you should accommodate EOT
  21. # [01:01] <annevk> SimonSapin: ah, good to know about subscribing, guess we should mention that somewhere
  22. # [01:03] <Hixie> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/canvas/ (and hit download) -- pretty inner shadow
  23. # [01:03] <SimonSapin> annevk: might be a temporary issue, I don’t know
  24. # [01:03] <annevk> GPHemsley: fwiw, I think if you use <li><p> more often you might get better visual results
  25. # [01:04] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  26. # [01:08] <annevk> thanks abarth and Hixie
  27. # [01:08] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  28. # [01:08] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@85-170-128-18.rev.numericable.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  29. # [01:09] <annevk> I guess I will reply to the public-webapps thing again, but later, prolly a "work day"
  30. # [01:18] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p5082AF7F.dip.t-dialin.net)
  31. # [01:23] * Quits: imrobert (~robert@139.62.87.109) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  32. # [01:24] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
  33. # [01:26] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-50-131-57-2.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  34. # [01:33] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@cpe-76-90-232-115.socal.res.rr.com)
  35. # [01:38] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  36. # [01:46] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  37. # [01:57] * Joins: imrobert (~robert@139.62.87.109)
  38. # [02:05] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@pool-100-2-233-63.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  39. # [02:17] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  40. # [02:31] <GPHemsley> annevk: What's wrong with the visual results I'm currently getting?
  41. # [02:38] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  42. # [02:38] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-50-131-57-2.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  43. # [02:47] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@rrcs-76-79-72-18.west.biz.rr.com)
  44. # [03:04] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-85-231.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  45. # [03:12] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-1b3o.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net)
  46. # [03:15] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-19ll.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  47. # [03:17] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl12-181-158.dsl.telepac.pt)
  48. # [03:25] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@173-228-64-81.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  49. # [03:25] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@rrcs-76-79-72-18.west.biz.rr.com) (Quit: rniwa)
  50. # [03:27] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  51. # [03:29] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@50-0-90-96.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: dydx)
  52. # [03:32] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-173-229.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  53. # [03:52] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  54. # [03:56] * Quits: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  55. # [04:00] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-148-195.dynamic.hinet.net)
  56. # [04:09] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl12-181-158.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  57. # [04:14] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
  58. # [04:24] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@173-228-64-81.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  59. # [04:25] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  60. # [04:25] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  61. # [04:25] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  62. # [04:26] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  63. # [04:34] * Quits: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  64. # [04:43] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  65. # [04:45] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  66. # [05:08] * Joins: nessy1 (~silviapf@202-159-173-240.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  67. # [05:09] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-173-229.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  68. # [05:10] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  69. # [05:25] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  70. # [05:25] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
  71. # [05:27] * Quits: nessy1 (~silviapf@202-159-173-240.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  72. # [05:29] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-148-195.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: HTTP/1.1 404 JohnAlbin Not Found)
  73. # [05:29] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-177-138.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  74. # [05:30] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-148-195.dynamic.hinet.net)
  75. # [05:31] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  76. # [05:35] * Quits: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  77. # [05:35] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  78. # [05:38] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  79. # [05:49] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash)
  80. # [05:51] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.178.31.221)
  81. # [05:52] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Quit: is sleepy)
  82. # [06:07] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
  83. # [06:16] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@107.201.4.189)
  84. # [06:18] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-85-231.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  85. # [06:24] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  86. # [06:24] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  87. # [06:31] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  88. # [06:36] * Quits: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  89. # [06:38] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Quit: is sleepy)
  90. # [06:42] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
  91. # [06:56] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@99-91-217-87.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  92. # [06:56] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
  93. # [07:17] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Quit: is sleepy)
  94. # [07:17] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  95. # [07:19] * Zauberfisch_ is now known as Zauberfisch
  96. # [07:27] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
  97. # [07:30] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  98. # [07:31] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  99. # [07:33] * Quits: onr (u5726@pdpc/supporter/active/evet)
  100. # [07:36] * Quits: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  101. # [07:38] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash) (Quit: Leaving)
  102. # [07:41] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  103. # [08:04] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-177-138.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  104. # [08:05] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  105. # [08:08] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@85-170-128-18.rev.numericable.fr)
  106. # [08:15] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@107.201.4.189) (Quit: othermaciej)
  107. # [08:31] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  108. # [08:36] * Quits: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  109. # [08:40] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  110. # [08:51] * Quits: imrobert (~robert@139.62.87.109) (Quit: leaving)
  111. # [09:01] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  112. # [09:07] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@213.87.240.198)
  113. # [09:09] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@213.87.240.198) (Client Quit)
  114. # [09:26] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  115. # [09:43] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-199-150.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  116. # [09:47] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  117. # [09:47] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
  118. # [09:50] * Joins: Malese (~Martin_L@81-233-190-9-no212.tbcn.telia.com)
  119. # [09:53] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.41.41)
  120. # [09:58] * Quits: Malese (~Martin_L@81-233-190-9-no212.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  121. # [10:00] <annevk> MikeSmith: the problem with the URL tests looks like the opposite problem to me
  122. # [10:00] <annevk> MikeSmith: "assert_equals: expected "http://192.168.0.257" but got "http://192.168.0.257/""
  123. # [10:01] <annevk> MikeSmith: so they expect without slash, but get one
  124. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> yeah I realize that
  125. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> so I changed them so that the original does have a slash
  126. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> and then the result still has the slash too
  127. # [10:02] <annevk> okay
  128. # [10:02] <annevk> these tests do indeed seem quite WebKit specific
  129. # [10:03] <annevk> "http://go\@ogle.com" expects the slash to disappear apparently...
  130. # [10:03] <annevk> euh, backslash
  131. # [10:04] <MikeSmith> btw do you have any clue why most of those tests don't get run at all in Opera?
  132. # [10:09] <MikeSmith> the changes I made are at https://github.com/sideshowbarker/url-testing/commit/fde8c0b7690a4f04d93d83c959864487b2ef6ade
  133. # [10:09] <annevk> not sure
  134. # [10:12] <annevk> omg CPU heating up like mad
  135. # [10:32] <MikeSmith> annevk: anyway maybe the spec should actually say that for pathless URLs a slash gets appended
  136. # [10:32] <MikeSmith> since that seems to be what browsers actually do
  137. # [10:33] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
  138. # [10:33] <annevk> MikeSmith: the spec does
  139. # [10:33] <MikeSmith> oh
  140. # [10:34] <MikeSmith> so the test cases were wrong anyway, then
  141. # [10:34] <annevk> see http://url.spec.whatwg.org#concept-url-serializer
  142. # [10:34] * MikeSmith reads
  143. # [10:34] <annevk> 'Append "/" concatenated with the strings in url's path (including empty strings), separated from each other by "/" to output.'
  144. # [10:35] <MikeSmith> ah OK
  145. # [10:37] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p508290F3.dip.t-dialin.net)
  146. # [10:39] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  147. # [10:41] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082AF7F.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  148. # [10:43] * Quits: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  149. # [10:45] <annevk> GPHemsley: mostly better margins, especially with that table it looks rather ugly currently
  150. # [10:47] <annevk> I guess eventually progress events should move to Fetch
  151. # [10:47] <annevk> I should start make a set of notes on Fetch
  152. # [10:57] * Joins: victor1 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net)
  153. # [11:01] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@2a01:e35:2f52:ead0:21e:8cff:feeb:d962)
  154. # [11:02] * attiks is now known as attiks|away
  155. # [11:08] * Joins: alFReD-NSH (~alFReD-NS@163.177.159.110.tm-hsbb.tm.net.my)
  156. # [11:13] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  157. # [11:15] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@77.117.246.42.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  158. # [11:16] <alFReD-NSH> Hi, I have an idea for protection against XSS in HTML. It would be nice if we could set an attribute on an Element, and that would stop any children from executing any `script` element. Is there any proposal similar to this?
  159. # [11:25] <MikeSmith> alFReD-NSH: you know about Content Security Policy?
  160. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> instead of using markup in the document, you add an HTTP header
  161. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> see http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/content-security-policy/raw-file/tip/csp-1.0-specification.html#sample-policy-definitions
  162. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> simplest case is you just send the "Content-Security-Policy: default-src 'self'" header
  163. # [11:29] * Quits: alFReD-NSH (~alFReD-NS@163.177.159.110.tm-hsbb.tm.net.my) (Read error: Connection timed out)
  164. # [11:40] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@cpe-76-90-232-115.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: tantek)
  165. # [11:46] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31) (Remote host closed the connection)
  166. # [11:46] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  167. # [11:53] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl)
  168. # [11:53] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl) (Changing host)
  169. # [11:53] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick)
  170. # [12:00] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
  171. # [12:13] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  172. # [12:15] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
  173. # [12:17] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  174. # [12:18] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  175. # [12:20] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  176. # [12:24] * Joins: Malese (~Martin_L@81-233-190-9-no212.tbcn.telia.com)
  177. # [12:29] * Joins: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se)
  178. # [12:35] <MikeSmith> it turns out that in the outline algorithm the steps that say to create an implied heading are actually pointless
  179. # [12:36] <MikeSmith> because the only part of the algorithm that checks to see if any implied heading has been created is a part that says, "if the heading of the last section of the outline of the current outlinee is an implied heading"
  180. # [12:37] <MikeSmith> and that could just as well be handled by not creating implied headings to begin with
  181. # [12:37] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  182. # [12:37] <MikeSmith> in which case a section that has no heading in the source will just have no heading in the outline
  183. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> and so that step could just be changed to read, "if the heading of the last section of the outline of the current outlinee has no heading"
  184. # [12:38] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@85-170-128-18.rev.numericable.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  185. # [12:39] <MikeSmith> I know because that's the way I have it implemented
  186. # [12:39] <MikeSmith> and it works
  187. # [12:39] <MikeSmith> the whole "create an implied heading" adds nothing except additional confusion
  188. # [12:40] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  189. # [12:46] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.178.31.221) (Quit: Leaving.)
  190. # [12:50] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-148-195.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: HTTP/1.1 404 JohnAlbin Not Found)
  191. # [12:53] * Quits: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  192. # [12:53] <annevk> is "implied heading" not something you want to show in the outline?
  193. # [12:58] <MikeSmith> sure it is
  194. # [12:59] <MikeSmith> but for the step of showing the outline, if a section has no heading, then you just show "implied heading"
  195. # [12:59] <MikeSmith> or whatever text -- e.g., "[untitled article element]"
  196. # [13:00] <MikeSmith> the action of building the outline does not need to do that in order for the action of showing it to be able to display something there
  197. # [13:00] * Parts: victor1 (~Adium@did75-14-82-236-18-74.fbx.proxad.net)
  198. # [13:00] * Quits: Druide_ (~Druid@p5B136D24.dip.t-dialin.net)
  199. # [13:01] <MikeSmith> and there's never any case where the algorithm doesn't say to add an implied heading for a heading-less section
  200. # [13:02] <MikeSmith> so having no heading and having an implied heading are exactly the same in practice
  201. # [13:04] <annevk> ah k
  202. # [13:10] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  203. # [13:14] <annevk> out of curiosity given relative reference "" (the empty string) and base URI "http://x", how does http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-5.2.2 lead to a target URI "http://x/"?
  204. # [13:14] <annevk> R.path is "" and therefore T.path becomes Base.path (which is empty) and that's that
  205. # [13:17] <annevk> oh well, it's obsolete now
  206. # [13:31] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-148-195.dynamic.hinet.net)
  207. # [13:37] <MikeSmith> annevk: I notice that some of the expected results in Chris's URL tests are different than the expected results in the WebKit URL tests
  208. # [13:39] <annevk> MikeSmith: well the spec does not match WebKit either so I guess that makes sense
  209. # [13:39] <MikeSmith> yeah but I think some of them neither match the spec nor match WebKit
  210. # [13:40] <annevk> oh okay, I guess you could patch those?
  211. # [13:40] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net)
  212. # [13:40] <annevk> if you want me to take a look at specific cases you could leave them here, I gotta go for a bit but I can check later
  213. # [13:41] <annevk> I was hoping to get to testing in a few weeks, but maybe I should move that around if there's interest now
  214. # [13:41] <annevk> ttyl
  215. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> hai
  216. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> go/@ogle.com is one case I noticed
  217. # [13:46] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  218. # [13:47] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
  219. # [13:52] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  220. # [13:52] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
  221. # [13:53] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  222. # [14:02] * Joins: espadrine (~thaddee_t@85-218-2-62.dclient.lsne.ch)
  223. # [14:06] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  224. # [14:18] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.71.249)
  225. # [14:18] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.71.249) (Changing host)
  226. # [14:18] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
  227. # [14:25] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@1.186.11.199)
  228. # [14:25] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@1.186.11.199) (Changing host)
  229. # [14:25] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash)
  230. # [14:29] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.251.95.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  231. # [14:42] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
  232. # [14:42] * Joins: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  233. # [14:49] * Joins: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se)
  234. # [14:59] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@85-170-128-18.rev.numericable.fr)
  235. # [15:00] * Quits: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  236. # [15:06] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  237. # [15:08] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  238. # [15:10] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  239. # [15:10] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  240. # [15:15] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  241. # [15:18] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
  242. # [15:26] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  243. # [15:32] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net)
  244. # [15:37] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  245. # [15:50] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@2a01:e35:2f52:ead0:21e:8cff:feeb:d962) (Remote host closed the connection)
  246. # [16:02] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  247. # [16:07] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  248. # [16:11] * Quits: Benvie (~brandon@cpe-174-097-187-248.nc.res.rr.com)
  249. # [16:13] * Quits: Malese (~Martin_L@81-233-190-9-no212.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  250. # [16:13] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
  251. # [16:18] <Ms2ger> jgraham, ping
  252. # [16:18] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  253. # [16:19] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net)
  254. # [16:23] <annevk> MikeSmith: http://go/@ogle.com -> http://go/@ogle.com/
  255. # [16:23] <MikeSmith> ok
  256. # [16:24] <MikeSmith> annevk: Chris's expected result for that is http://go@ogle.com
  257. # [16:24] <MikeSmith> for some reason that I don't understand
  258. # [16:24] * Ms2ger assumes "a mistake"
  259. # [16:24] <MikeSmith> prolly so
  260. # [16:24] <annevk> maybe the regular expression in STD 66 gives something else?
  261. # [16:25] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  262. # [16:27] <annevk> hmm, looks like just a mistake
  263. # [16:36] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180)
  264. # [16:44] <MikeSmith> I'll file a bug for it later
  265. # [16:44] <MikeSmith> right now, shochu time
  266. # [16:45] <MikeSmith> btw, I believe I now have a conforming implementation of the outline algorithm in the server-side code for the validator
  267. # [16:45] <MikeSmith> available for testing at http://qa-dev.w3.org:8888/
  268. # [16:45] <MikeSmith> I had earlier implemented something that generated it on the client side
  269. # [16:46] <MikeSmith> and the results look the same as what I had there before
  270. # [16:46] <MikeSmith> bot now the client-side code is gone and what you see there is generated on the server
  271. # [16:47] <MikeSmith> next thing I plan to add when I have time is a way for users to filter out certain error messages
  272. # [16:47] <MikeSmith> a la http://validator.keegan.st/
  273. # [16:52] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
  274. # [16:52] <annevk> MikeSmith: I just noticed we have a URL component under the WebAppsWG as well
  275. # [16:52] <annevk> MikeSmith: should I move all those bugs and will you then nuke that component or do you have a different preference?
  276. # [16:53] <zewt> firefox's "different by design" slogan is pretty embarrassing, heh
  277. # [16:53] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  278. # [16:56] <zewt> really the entire download page is painful
  279. # [16:57] * Joins: mattgiff_ (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  280. # [16:58] <annevk> Is there a bug on updating HTML to use the URL spec?
  281. # [17:00] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  282. # [17:02] <[tm]> annevk: can't recall if there is a bug for that yet
  283. # [17:02] <[tm]> maybe an old one, for the old draft
  284. # [17:03] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  285. # [17:03] <[tm]> about the WebApps bugs, yeah lets move them
  286. # [17:04] <[tm]> either you can our I still later when I get back to my work cave
  287. # [17:05] <annevk> [tm]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=WebAppsWG&component=URL&;resolution=--- is now empty
  288. # [17:06] <annevk> [tm]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=WHATWG&component=JavaScript can be removed too, matjas uses GitHub instead
  289. # [17:09] <[tm]> ok
  290. # [17:18] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-199-150.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  291. # [17:20] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Pong
  292. # [17:21] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I saw your patch and it's kind of OK, but I don't really understand why it's needed. Seems like timeout() should only do something if explicit_timeout is set, which means that timeout_length should be null. In theory.
  293. # [17:23] * JohnAlbin is now known as JohnAlbin_zzzzzz
  294. # [17:29] <Hixie> anyone up to date on srcset implementations?
  295. # [17:32] <annevk> hmm, no open bugs on HTML's public suffix list comparisons being wrong
  296. # [17:33] <annevk> apparently public suffix list uses Unicode rather than the ASCII representation of domains
  297. # [17:33] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net)
  298. # [17:34] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@pool-100-2-233-63.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  299. # [17:34] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.144.49)
  300. # [17:38] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  301. # [17:39] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  302. # [17:41] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  303. # [17:42] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  304. # [17:42] <annevk> Hixie: do you want a bug for the URL stuff
  305. # [17:47] <GPHemsley> Apparently Mozilla just got the memo this week that WHATWG standards are on GitHub and the Specs todo wiki page exists
  306. # [17:48] <Hixie> annevk: sure
  307. # [17:48] <Hixie> GPHemsley: oh?
  308. # [17:48] * Quits: mattgiff_ (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  309. # [17:48] <GPHemsley> Hixie: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Planning/2012-11-21#Standards
  310. # [17:48] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  311. # [17:49] <annevk> looks like they read my blog then :)
  312. # [17:49] * Quits: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.144.49) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  313. # [17:49] <GPHemsley> ah
  314. # [17:50] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.154.150)
  315. # [17:51] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  316. # [17:51] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  317. # [17:52] * Joins: mattgiff_ (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  318. # [17:53] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  319. # [17:53] * Quits: mattgiff_ (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  320. # [17:56] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-199-150.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  321. # [17:57] * Parts: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.154.150)
  322. # [18:01] * Joins: Benvie (~brandon@cpe-174-097-187-248.nc.res.rr.com)
  323. # [18:04] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@pool-100-2-233-63.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  324. # [18:05] * Joins: OnlyMax (~OnlyMax@187-126-60-65.user.veloxzone.com.br)
  325. # [18:07] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20072
  326. # [18:12] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  327. # [18:14] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  328. # [18:15] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  329. # [18:16] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  330. # [18:18] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  331. # [18:18] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  332. # [18:18] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  333. # [18:18] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  334. # [18:19] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  335. # [18:19] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  336. # [18:19] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  337. # [18:19] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  338. # [18:19] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  339. # [18:20] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  340. # [18:20] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  341. # [18:21] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  342. # [18:21] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  343. # [18:23] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  344. # [18:23] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@c-67-161-57-5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: bholley)
  345. # [18:25] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  346. # [18:26] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  347. # [18:28] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  348. # [18:28] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  349. # [18:28] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  350. # [18:30] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  351. # [18:32] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@cpe-76-90-232-115.socal.res.rr.com)
  352. # [18:32] <Ms2ger> jgraham, well, I kinda need timeout() to end up calling my completion callback
  353. # [18:35] <annevk> odinho: btw, re the userinfo thing
  354. # [18:35] <annevk> odinho: we want to preserve :
  355. # [18:36] <annevk> odinho: so http://user:@x/ should serialize as such
  356. # [18:37] <annevk> odinho: so http://:@x/ too, only in http://@x/ gets @ removed because there's no corresponding component
  357. # [18:39] <Velmont> So //:@x/ would indeed trigger the "has userinfo" part? And thus fail in redirect?
  358. # [18:42] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  359. # [18:43] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  360. # [18:43] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  361. # [18:43] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  362. # [18:44] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  363. # [18:44] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  364. # [18:45] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  365. # [18:47] <annevk> yes
  366. # [18:47] <annevk> curious edge case: //\t@/ \t is ignored by the parser
  367. # [18:48] <annevk> parser also ignores newlines, but you cannot use those in HTTP :)
  368. # [18:48] <annevk> I'm guessing \t is okay
  369. # [18:51] <tantek> Don't know about \t but @t is okay.
  370. # [18:52] <annevk> heh, I was using \t as a shorthand for 0x09
  371. # [18:52] <annevk> btw http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/URL#Schemes
  372. # [18:54] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
  373. # [18:55] <annevk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-script-coord/2012OctDec/0173.html
  374. # [18:55] <annevk> "We've interested in any and all feedback. In particular, if there are any Web API object features that can not be expressed in terms of the new MOP." I'm guessing document.all!
  375. # [18:55] <Hixie> or Window, probably
  376. # [18:57] <annevk> I feel this is somewhat backwards though, shouldn't they have gone through some effort to identify areas?
  377. # [18:57] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  378. # [18:59] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@c-76-97-75-131.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Quit: is sleepy)
  379. # [18:59] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Quit: Leaving.)
  380. # [18:59] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  381. # [19:00] <Hixie> annevk: what makes you say they didn't?
  382. # [19:01] <annevk> I would have expected them to have stated they looked if they had and conclude with "if there's anything we've overlooked, please let us know!"
  383. # [19:01] <annevk> but yeah, maybe they have
  384. # [19:04] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@c-44dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  385. # [19:06] <tantek> "Meta-Object Protocol" ?!? oh dear.
  386. # [19:14] <Hixie> annevk: eh, i often don't mention that since it's obvious :-)
  387. # [19:14] <tantek> annevk - re: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/URL#Schemes, since you've explicitly included the "mailto" scheme, are various IM schemes in scope, e.g. "aim", "xmpp", "ymsgr", "msnim", "skype" (examples documented here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples#AOL_Instant_Messenger_.28AIM.29 ) ? and telephony, e.g. tel:, fax:, callto: ? and the latest fun one is geo: RFC5870.
  388. # [19:16] <annevk> Hixie: guess I'm still somewhat skeptical about TC39, although it seems it's getting better
  389. # [19:18] <annevk> tantek: so yeah, I guess so
  390. # [19:20] <annevk> tantek: kinda depends on how we end up specifying all this. E.g. if you XHR() a skype URL, results in no resource, and then results in a network error
  391. # [19:33] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@bc9866.bendcable.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  392. # [19:34] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net)
  393. # [19:34] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@bc9866.bendcable.com)
  394. # [19:35] * Joins: imrobert (~robert@139.62.86.188)
  395. # [19:36] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  396. # [19:39] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  397. # [19:43] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  398. # [19:43] <jgraham> Ms2ger: But do you set explicit_timeout in your testharnessreport.js?
  399. # [19:43] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  400. # [19:44] <Ms2ger> Doesn't look like it, is that new?
  401. # [19:45] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  402. # [19:45] <annevk> tantek: updated http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/URL#Schemes
  403. # [19:45] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
  404. # [19:47] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@c-67-161-57-5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  405. # [19:51] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I thought it was added because you asked for it
  406. # [19:51] <Ms2ger> Oh, heh
  407. # [19:51] <jgraham> I thought the idea was that you would disable the timeout in testharness.js and mochikit would call timeout() or something
  408. # [19:52] <jgraham> *mochitest
  409. # [19:52] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  410. # [19:53] <Ms2ger> We've got "timeout": 1000000
  411. # [19:54] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  412. # [19:56] <jgraham> Oh
  413. # [19:56] <jgraham> Well yeah, that won't work
  414. # [19:58] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I have no idea how to set r+ on bugzilla, but if I did I would
  415. # [19:59] <Ms2ger> Change the select on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=684870&action=edit :)
  416. # [20:00] <jgraham> Maybe I don't have enough permissions?
  417. # [20:00] <jgraham> (I don't see a select)
  418. # [20:00] <Ms2ger> Mm, possibly
  419. # [20:01] * jgraham comments
  420. # [20:25] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  421. # [20:44] <tantek> annevk, ok, cool. and "geo" ? http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870
  422. # [20:44] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  423. # [20:44] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  424. # [20:44] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  425. # [20:44] <annevk> tantek: I guess that would end up like mailto
  426. # [20:44] * Joins: sedovsek_ (~robert@BSN-61-115-63.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  427. # [20:45] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  428. # [20:45] <tantek> sort of. "geo" is descriptive, like a noun. whereas in practice, "mailto:" is more like an an action, like "open a new message to"
  429. # [20:46] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  430. # [20:46] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  431. # [20:46] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  432. # [20:46] <tantek> all the IM/telephony/email URLs are implemented as actions
  433. # [20:46] <annevk> tantek: in the end though, the first list is what matters, if it's not part of the first list, it's going to be handled externally
  434. # [20:46] <tantek> ok cool. didn't know if the distinction mattered for this spec.
  435. # [20:47] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-199-150.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  436. # [20:47] * sedovsek_ is now known as sedovsek
  437. # [20:48] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash) (Quit: Leaving)
  438. # [20:48] <annevk> I think what mostly matters is whether the URL maps to a resource (a bag of bits as Hixie calls it)
  439. # [20:49] <tantek> geo: is like data: in that respect then
  440. # [20:49] <tantek> it maps to a bag of coordinates bits
  441. # [20:51] <annevk> no it isn't
  442. # [20:51] <annevk> geo does not represent something that has a MIME type
  443. # [20:52] <tantek> hmm - though the RFC does liken it to mailto: "Accessing information about a particular location or triggering further services shouldn't be any harder than clicking on a 'mailto:' link and writing an email straight away."
  444. # [20:52] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@107.201.4.189)
  445. # [20:55] <tantek> a geo URL "identifies a physical location rather than a network resource"
  446. # [20:56] <tantek> from: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5870#section-9
  447. # [20:56] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  448. # [20:56] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@pool-100-2-233-63.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  449. # [21:01] <SimonSapin> I’m writing an algorithm in English for css3-page that has lots of nested "if"s. How should I mark it up?
  450. # [21:02] <SimonSapin> I’m not satisfied with the presentation of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-page/#margin-dimension and I’m rewriting the content anyway
  451. # [21:02] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@pool-100-2-233-63.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  452. # [21:03] <annevk> SimonSapin: using <ol> might help a lot
  453. # [21:04] * Joins: Yuhong (~chatzilla@S01060019d1e384a3.vc.shawcable.net)
  454. # [21:06] <SimonSapin> annevk: ok for <ol> instead of <ul>. Great for a sequence of steps. Would you use the same for a set of exclusive conditions? Eg. "if foo, <nested block> Otherwise, if bar, <nested block>"
  455. # [21:07] <annevk> depends on if there's more steps I suppose
  456. # [21:07] <annevk> if it's just two steps I might if it helps for clarity, otherwise just two paragraphs
  457. # [21:08] <SimonSapin> two paragraphs inside a <li> ?
  458. # [21:08] <Yuhong> annevk: Killing EOT support from IE from what modes?
  459. # [21:11] <annevk> Yuhong: all
  460. # [21:11] <annevk> SimonSapin: uhuh, <p> is your friend
  461. # [21:11] <Yuhong> annevk: Sometime MS does do this, but they don't take it lightly:
  462. # [21:11] <Yuhong> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2012/06/04/legacy-dx-filters-removed-from-ie10-release-preview.aspx
  463. # [21:12] <annevk> Yuhong: aligning browsers is a long term goal, I don't expect immediate compliance
  464. # [21:12] <Yuhong> annevk: But why features in one browsers that don't exist at all in other browsers matter?
  465. # [21:14] <annevk> Yuhong: if that browser gets a dominant market position the other browsers will be forced to reverse engineer the proprietary features as they will get more wide deployment (see NN4, IE6, "mobile" WebKit)
  466. # [21:16] <Yuhong> annevk: Anyway, if you get appointed to the TAG, I suggest working on this: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Evolution
  467. # [21:17] <Yuhong> annevk: As I said before, it will help to prove that the W3C process and spec versioning is flawed.
  468. # [21:19] <Ms2ger> SimonSapin, depending on what kind of if, maybe a dl?
  469. # [21:19] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: it’s the big nested list in http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-page/#margin-dimension
  470. # [21:20] <SimonSapin> <ol> is interesting, to be able to talk about "case 3.1.2 of the algorithm"
  471. # [21:21] <Yuhong> annevk: And on the Encoding Standard and IE, I think IE is pretty close already.
  472. # [21:21] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  473. # [21:21] <Yuhong> annevk: Do anyone really care that IE don't support JIS X 212 at this point?
  474. # [21:22] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@pool-100-2-233-63.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  475. # [21:22] <Yuhong> annevk: In fact many of the encodings itself comes from IE.
  476. # [21:25] <Yuhong> "(see NN4, IE6, "mobile" WebKit)" Actually, it is NN1-3, IE 4-5, and yea mobile WebKit.
  477. # [21:25] <Ms2ger> SimonSapin, IMO, the 40-something em max-width is too small if you actually write things out
  478. # [21:26] <annevk> SimonSapin: any kind of list of steps really has to be <ol> imo
  479. # [21:27] <Yuhong> NN4 and IE6 was when the browsers began to stagnate.
  480. # [21:27] <Yuhong> And became a boat anchor.
  481. # [21:27] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: Do you mean the max-width on body? That’s in all CSS EDs…
  482. # [21:28] <Ms2ger> SimonSapin, yeah, but most CSS EDs don't specify much
  483. # [21:28] <Yuhong> And even now, IE9 is not available for XP, causing IE8 to be another boat anchor.
  484. # [21:28] <Yuhong> Causing problems for things like XHTML (remember polyglot?).
  485. # [21:28] <Ms2ger> It works fine with short paragraphs that just hand-wave a bit
  486. # [21:29] <Yuhong> And DOM level 2, which is probably why jQuery 2.0 is not supporting IE8.
  487. # [21:30] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: It’s currently at 50em and I think that more would be harder to read, but that’s not what I’m interested in right now
  488. # [21:31] <Yuhong> To be honest, XP was in extended support by the time IE9 was released.
  489. # [21:31] <Ms2ger> SimonSapin, and 70px+2em padding ;)
  490. # [21:31] <Yuhong> And IE9 required a platform update to work on Vista and IE10 requires a platform update to work on Win7.
  491. # [21:32] <SimonSapin> annevk: I see your point about <ol> and sequential steps, but I already use it for "branching"
  492. # [21:32] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: Ok. But still not interested :p
  493. # [21:33] <Yuhong> And this reminds me that people often use the term "standard compliance" when "boat anchor" is meant.
  494. # [21:33] <Ms2ger> SimonSapin, sure, but that was the first thing that got my way when I looked at it ;)
  495. # [21:34] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@pool-100-2-233-63.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  496. # [21:34] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net)
  497. # [21:34] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: you could ping fantasai about restyling specs
  498. # [21:34] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  499. # [21:34] * GPHemsley is not a fan of numbered "otherwise" steps.
  500. # [21:35] <Ms2ger> Maybe I should use the geocities one instead :)
  501. # [21:35] <GPHemsley> Numbered steps should be self-contained, IMO.
  502. # [21:36] <SimonSapin> geocities.css has max-width on body too
  503. # [21:36] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@107.201.4.189) (Quit: othermaciej)
  504. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> Foiled again
  505. # [21:37] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@107.201.4.189)
  506. # [21:39] <SimonSapin> GPHemsley: My algo has a "tree" of conditions, and only leaves have steps
  507. # [21:39] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d02877e.pool.mediaWays.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  508. # [21:40] <SimonSapin> Numbering the steps is not that interesting. There are not many in one given leaf and they are close together
  509. # [21:41] * Quits: Yuhong (~chatzilla@S01060019d1e384a3.vc.shawcable.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032])
  510. # [21:46] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@107.201.4.189) (Quit: othermaciej)
  511. # [21:49] * Quits: NimeshNeema (uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jhgfcesbagriygiu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  512. # [21:50] * Quits: manu1 (~chatzilla@pool-96-240-190-151.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  513. # [21:50] * Quits: Benvie (~brandon@cpe-174-097-187-248.nc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  514. # [21:50] * Joins: manu1 (~chatzilla@pool-96-240-190-151.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
  515. # [21:51] * Joins: Benvie (~brandon@cpe-174-097-187-248.nc.res.rr.com)
  516. # [21:53] <GPHemsley> SimonSapin: By "tree", you mean if/otherwise?
  517. # [21:53] * Joins: NimeshNeema_ (uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fuzeejhylplevdmo)
  518. # [21:53] <GPHemsley> if/elseif/otherwise
  519. # [21:53] <GPHemsley> or whatever
  520. # [21:57] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.41.41) (Quit: nn)
  521. # [22:05] <SimonSapin> GPHemsley: yes
  522. # [22:05] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-61-115-63.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  523. # [22:05] <GPHemsley> SimonSapin: And by "leaves", you mean...?
  524. # [22:06] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-61-115-63.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  525. # [22:06] <SimonSapin> each elsif contains either a nested series of if/elseif/else (a subtree) or a sequence of steps (a "leaf")
  526. # [22:07] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-61-115-63.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Client Quit)
  527. # [22:12] <GPHemsley> SimonSapin: So... <li><p>if x, do: <ol></ol></p><p>elseif y, do: <ol></ol></p><p>otherwise, do: <ol></ol></p></li> ?
  528. # [22:12] <GPHemsley> (or thereabouts)
  529. # [22:13] * Parts: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-147-244-236.as13285.net)
  530. # [22:14] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180) (Quit: Leaving.)
  531. # [22:17] <SimonSapin> GPHemsley: so your advice is to use <p> for if/else and <ol> for nesting? Even if one <ol> only has one <li> made of if/else?
  532. # [22:18] <GPHemsley> SimonSapin: I'm actually just trying to clarify the advice that others have given plus whatever you've done, as I've been trying to avoid "otherwise" clauses for want of how to mark them up. :)
  533. # [22:18] <SimonSapin> I can make conditions that happen to be exclusive and not write "otherwise" explicitly
  534. # [22:19] <SimonSapin> but that doesn’t solve how to nest them
  535. # [22:20] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
  536. # [22:20] <GPHemsley> SimonSapin: Oh, yeah, that's what I've been doing: Making exclusive ifs
  537. # [22:21] <GPHemsley> <li>if x and y, do: <ol></ol></li><li>if x and z, do: <ol></ol></li>
  538. # [22:22] <GPHemsley> But perhaps <ul> does work here
  539. # [22:22] <SimonSapin> so you do not nest and repeat x as needed?
  540. # [22:22] <SimonSapin> What if x is lengthy to describe?
  541. # [22:22] <GPHemsley> hmm
  542. # [22:23] <GPHemsley> SimonSapin: I've been able to avoid such a situation thus far :)
  543. # [22:23] <GPHemsley> hmm
  544. # [22:23] <SimonSapin> well, I did not pick the easiest first edit :]
  545. # [22:24] <GPHemsley> <li>If x, do: <ol><li>If y, do: <ol></ol></li><li>If z, do: <ol></ol></li></ol></li>
  546. # [22:26] <GPHemsley> I have managed to have only a single instance of the word "otherwise" in mimesniff
  547. # [22:26] <GPHemsley> and 0 instances of "else"
  548. # [22:26] <GPHemsley> " A no-sniff flag, which defaults to set if the user agent does not wish to perform sniffing on the resource and unset otherwise. "
  549. # [22:26] <SimonSapin> Looks good.
  550. # [22:26] <SimonSapin> And for sequential steps at the inner most level, switch to <p> or keep <ol>?
  551. # [22:26] <GPHemsley> But I do recall having gone through extra effort to ensure that the default step come after a bunch of steps that end in "abort these steps" or "return x"
  552. # [22:27] <GPHemsley> SimonSapin: Keep <ol> for sequential steps
  553. # [22:27] <GPHemsley> sequential steps should always be <ol>
  554. # [22:27] <GPHemsley> it's the if/elseif/else markup that's murky
  555. # [22:28] <GPHemsley> but if it's just "do x. do y. do z.", that part's clear
  556. # [22:29] <GPHemsley> Avoid having more than one instruction per <li>
  557. # [22:29] <GPHemsley> (unless it's an abort or similar)
  558. # [22:29] <GPHemsley> and FTR, this is all IMO
  559. # [22:30] <SimonSapin> your opinion is better than me trying stuff at random :)
  560. # [22:30] <GPHemsley> :)
  561. # [22:31] <SimonSapin> Markup is settled, back to figuring out the actual algorithm. (Layout is hard.)
  562. # [22:31] <GPHemsley> :)
  563. # [22:31] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@c-71-238-227-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
  564. # [22:32] <GPHemsley> I have a lot of steps that go "1. x = y; 2. if x is not undefined, abort. 3. x = z; if x is not undefined, abort. ..."
  565. # [22:33] <GPHemsley> but I definitely use abort/return in place of if/elseif/else
  566. # [22:33] <GPHemsley> don't know if that's good, but it avoids the markup issue
  567. # [22:34] * Parts: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@c-71-238-227-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
  568. # [22:44] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-17-84.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  569. # [22:46] <annevk> SimonSapin: not sure what branching is, but any spec algorithm I know uses <ol>
  570. # [22:46] <SimonSapin> branching is if/elseif/else
  571. # [22:48] <annevk> so I guess what we want is that about/blob/data URLs are treated on equal footing; e.g. if your API allows one of those it should allow the others too
  572. # [22:49] <annevk> javascript is a special case, only allowed when okay
  573. # [22:49] <annevk> then ws/wss are only allowed in WebSocket
  574. # [22:49] <GPHemsley> annevk: Are you splitting URLs up into types? hierarchical, actions, scripting?
  575. # [22:49] <annevk> http/https work almost anywhere
  576. # [22:50] <annevk> GPHemsley: more like "can be fetched" / "cannot be fetched"
  577. # [22:50] <GPHemsley> and you're leaving room for new schemes, right?
  578. # [22:51] <annevk> not sure what that means
  579. # [22:56] <annevk> What I'm trying to figure out what the best model is for XHR / <img> / <script> / <object> / <iframe> / <svg:image> and anything else that takes a URL, going forward
  580. # [22:58] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  581. # [22:58] <SimonSapin> annevk: for these anything that can not fetch a resource is an error, isn’t it?
  582. # [22:59] <SimonSapin> where "can fetch a resource" means return a sequence of bytes with a content-type
  583. # [22:59] <annevk> SimonSapin: yeah, although <iframe> and <object> might be special come to think of it
  584. # [22:59] <SimonSapin> how so?
  585. # [22:59] <annevk> some stuff goes directly to "fetch", some stuff does "navigate" first
  586. # [22:59] <annevk> <iframe> does "navigate"
  587. # [23:00] <annevk> <object> might too, not entirely sure
  588. # [23:00] <SimonSapin> does "navigate to mailto:" make sense?
  589. # [23:00] <annevk> yes, that is what <a> does
  590. # [23:00] <SimonSapin> in <iframe> I mean
  591. # [23:01] <annevk> seems that depends on the UA
  592. # [23:04] <SimonSapin> oh, I remember a story about Android loading tel: URLs in <iframe> which was enough to trigger IMEI magic numbers
  593. # [23:05] <annevk> this area has been filled with exploits, which is in part why we should define it more carefully I think
  594. # [23:05] <SimonSapin> I don’t see a use case for tel: or mailto: on anything but <a>
  595. # [23:05] <annevk> I guess I have to talk with Hixie at some point how to best organise it, for now just defining the processing steps for various schemes is prolly enough work
  596. # [23:06] <annevk> SimonSapin: sure, but what if the <a> has a target that points to the <iframe>?
  597. # [23:06] <annevk> SimonSapin: in the end all <a> does is manipulate the top-level <iframe> that is not exposed
  598. # [23:07] <annevk> SimonSapin: there's something to be said for magic top-level <iframe> and normal <iframe>s to have a different model of course
  599. # [23:13] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  600. # [23:15] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-17-84.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  601. # [23:23] <GPHemsley> annevk: What are the problems with EOT?
  602. # [23:24] <annevk> it's a proprietary format
  603. # [23:24] <GPHemsley> even given http://www.w3.org/Submission/EOT/ ?
  604. # [23:24] <annevk> yeah, because nobody plans to implement it
  605. # [23:25] <annevk> you can have all the documentation you want, but if there's just one implementation it's proprietary
  606. # [23:25] <GPHemsley> o_0
  607. # [23:26] <GPHemsley> Yet another use of "proprietary" that does not coincide with how I understand the word
  608. # [23:29] <zewt> "proprietary" just means "owned", it has nothing to do with how many implementations there are
  609. # [23:33] <annevk> you can call it something else if you like, substance is the same
  610. # [23:34] <GPHemsley> well, not really... because I was looking for reasons as to why nobody plans to implement it
  611. # [23:34] <annevk> because we have too much font formats already
  612. # [23:35] <annevk> well, woff is getting a new version of sorts I believe, but nobody has plans for EOT
  613. # [23:36] <GPHemsley> having "too many already" is far from a substantial reason
  614. # [23:37] <annevk> o_O
  615. # [23:37] <annevk> nn
  616. # [23:37] <GPHemsley> to also have too many image formats, video formats, encodings, ...
  617. # [23:37] <GPHemsley> s/to /we /
  618. # [23:59] * Quits: imrobert (~robert@139.62.86.188) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  619. # Session Close: Sun Nov 25 00:00:00 2012

The end :)