/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-11-30 / end

Options:

# Session Start: Fri Nov 30 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #whatwg
# [00:00] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-ljqvvlgibmotlpsi) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
# [00:00] <Hixie> annevk: all i'm saying is ?foo and ?foo= are distinguishible on the server, i've no idea what this means for your spec :-)
# [00:00] <TabAtkins> Then what annevk said is right - in your example, the = is part of the param name and will be percent-encoded.
# [00:00] <gavinc> ... isindex is a name? I thought it was an element...
# [00:00] <annevk> Hixie: ah, no disagreement there
# [00:01] <annevk> gavinc: it's a macro in the parser
# [00:01] <TabAtkins> gavinc: You're getting confused, but don't worry, because noone cares about isindex. ^_^
# [00:01] <Hixie> TabAtkins: yeah using isindex was poor choice on my part
# [00:02] <Hixie> my point still holds though
# [00:02] <Hixie> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/cgi/test-tools/echo?test= and http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/cgi/test-tools/echo?test aren't the same
# [00:02] <annevk> Hixie: yeah, but per application/x-www-form-urlencoded they are (at least per your spec for it)
# [00:03] <annevk> Hixie: and application/x-www-form-urlencoded is the API we're gonna provide for .query
# [00:03] <annevk> Hixie: if you want something more complicated, you can build your own API on top of .search (which is the raw data); that's the gist of the plan
# [00:03] <Hixie> ah yeah, that's fine
# [00:03] <Hixie> semantically i agree that ?test and ?test= should be treated the same
# [00:04] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-12-98.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [00:04] <annevk> good good, then we were just miscommunicating
# [00:07] <annevk> Hixie: Frame-Options is an HTTP header which provides embedding prevention
# [00:07] <gavinc> ahh! isindex was an element as is now a name and was a name too, learning every day
# [00:07] * gavinc fears isindex
# [00:07] <annevk> Hixie: I'm guessing ancestor-origins is a CSP thing that does something similar, but not sure about that
# [00:07] <Hixie> aah, could be CSP...
# [00:08] <annevk> maybe the new name for frame-ancestors
# [00:09] <annevk> if there's something I fear, it's CSP
# [00:09] <annevk> sooo complex
# [00:10] <annevk> gavinc: use http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/ and understand <isindex>; better than fearing it
# [00:10] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:10] <annevk> gavinc: while you're there you might want to try <image> and </br>, and maybe for extra fun a lone </p>
# [00:10] <Hixie> isindex is reasonably straightforward and trivial to search for in the html spec
# [00:11] <gavinc> annevk: those others I've come to terms with ;) <isindex>...
# [00:11] * Quits: Backlund (~Andre@212-107-152-138.customers.ownit.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [00:11] * Quits: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [00:12] * Quits: benschwarz (uid2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qxpwsmucrxkduiee) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:12] * Joins: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3)
# [00:12] <Hixie> anyone got a copy of hte csp spec i can use?
# [00:12] * Joins: benschwarz (uid2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-loaszcikmwthcjzb)
# [00:13] <annevk> csp.spec... oh wait
# [00:13] <Hixie> google has a cache of an old version
# [00:14] <TabAtkins> annevk: Seems inconsistent that set() can take an array, but append() can't.
# [00:14] <Hixie> i'll use that for now
# [00:14] <annevk> Hixie: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:UUvG4IpmatkJ:www.w3.org/TR/2012/CR-CSP-20121115/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk
# [00:14] <annevk> ah
# [00:14] <TabAtkins> And unfortunately, set() taking an array violates the Map API.
# [00:15] * Quits: hallvors (~hallvord@office.oslo.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [00:15] <Hixie> ok the old version of CSP isn't good enough for what i want
# [00:15] <annevk> my idea was that append is just for adding a new pair, and set was for overwriting a bunch of stuff
# [00:16] <TabAtkins> Actually, hm. I'd probably assume that a MultiMap would allow an array to be passed.
# [00:16] <TabAtkins> (Meaning that if you wanted to store an array itself as a value, you'd have to wrap it in an array.)
# [00:16] <annevk> the shitty thing is that we don't know what MultiMap will look like
# [00:17] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I'm guessing at what a good API woudl be.
# [00:17] <annevk> and also, this is a multimap, but we want to optimize for map usage
# [00:17] <TabAtkins> While trying not to make it too inconvenient for a pure string->string map API.
# [00:18] <TabAtkins> (Or string->[string], I guess.)
# [00:18] * Joins: hallvors (~hallvord@office.oslo.opera.com)
# [00:19] <annevk> it's really [(string,string)]
# [00:20] <Hixie> ok based on what i can read about 1.1, it doesn't do what i want either
# [00:20] <Hixie> hmmmm
# [00:20] <TabAtkins> annevk: Other multimap apis seem to have both a .set and .setAll.
# [00:20] <annevk> Hixie: just postpone until Adam is around
# [00:20] <annevk> TabAtkins: that sounds interesting
# [00:20] <annevk> TabAtkins: we already have getAll
# [00:20] <TabAtkins> Basically just *All variants of every method.
# [00:21] <annevk> TabAtkins: is there documentation on how they operate?
# [00:21] <TabAtkins> So I guess delete can change from being {1,2} arg to being two-arg, with a 1-arg deleteAll.
# [00:21] <TabAtkins> http://google-collections.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/javadoc/com/google/common/collect/Multimap.html
# [00:22] <annevk> I think remove we should just do with an optional arg
# [00:22] <annevk> like it's now
# [00:22] <TabAtkins> That's likely fine.
# [00:22] <TabAtkins> Hm, I can't parse what the hell this Scala documentation is trying to tell me about its multimap class.
# [00:23] <annevk> yeah me neither
# [00:23] <annevk> the putAll method there seems like append()
# [00:23] <TabAtkins> Oh, looks like Scala just doesn't treat it like a normal map at all.
# [00:23] <TabAtkins> It does everything in terms of the value being a Set.
# [00:24] <annevk> the underlying model is Collection<Map.Entry<K,V>>
# [00:25] <annevk> aaah
# [00:25] <annevk> what I call set, they call replaceValues
# [00:25] <TabAtkins> But yeah, the Java class from Apache does the same thing, with both put() and putAll().
# [00:25] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-44dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: tomasf)
# [00:26] <annevk> but they don't have documentation for replaceValues
# [00:26] <annevk> or at least not documentation in detail
# [00:26] <annevk> who write this stuff?
# [00:26] <annevk> writes*
# [00:26] <TabAtkins> A machine, most likely.
# [00:26] <annevk> oh, it says "Jared Levy"
# [00:26] <TabAtkins> Wait,w hat page are you looking at?
# [00:26] <annevk> the one you linked?
# [00:27] <TabAtkins> Oh, the google one.
# [00:27] <annevk> oh this is fun, but I should get some sleep
# [00:28] <TabAtkins> annevk: Should I file a bug?
# [00:28] <annevk> if you figure out an API, let me know, otherwise I'll struggle on with the algorithms that are required either way
# [00:28] <TabAtkins> Assuming w3.org is up before I leave?
# [00:28] <annevk> TabAtkins: bug/email/rants on IRC all work
# [00:29] * Quits: hallvors (~hallvord@office.oslo.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [00:29] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
# [00:33] <TabAtkins> annevk: Okay, got it worked out with one question. I think this is reasonable for a generic MultiMap, *and* is compatible with treating it as a Map.
# [00:33] <TabAtkins> get(k), getAll(k), set(k,v), append(k,v), appendAll(k,[v]), delete(k, v?), has(k)
# [00:33] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:34] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
# [00:34] <TabAtkins> Only question is whether you want a setAll(k,[v]) or not. You can just do .delete(k); .appendAll(k,[v]) instead.
# [00:35] <annevk> set overwrites the first key/value pair; if no key is found, appends?
# [00:35] <TabAtkins> Yes.
# [00:35] <annevk> append/appendAll can be merged by doing append(k, (v or [v]))
# [00:35] <TabAtkins> In other words, set is *always* equivalent to just doing a full delete, followed by an append.
# [00:36] <TabAtkins> annevk: That only works in your string-limited case. It doesn't work for a general MultiMap.
# [00:36] <annevk> equivalent, but not identical because of the underlying data model
# [00:36] <TabAtkins> Oh, you're right, I forgot about the data model. In that case, yes, your formulation is great.
# [00:36] <TabAtkins> In that case, you probably want a setAll().
# [00:37] <annevk> I was thinking of maybe not having setAll/appendAll for now
# [00:37] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [00:37] <TabAtkins> That's fine too.
# [00:37] <annevk> as they can be implemented and we expect the common case to be get/set
# [00:37] <annevk> so just keep it very basic for now, and expand later
# [00:37] <annevk> thanks, will update stuff tomorrow
# [00:37] <TabAtkins> getAll() and delete() with an optional arg seem like *clearly* the right answer for a generic multimap, so shouldn't be controversial.
# [00:37] * Quits: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [00:37] <TabAtkins> Also .append() as a single k/v addition.
# [00:37] <annevk> yeah
# [00:38] <annevk> those we should keep
# [00:38] * annevk likes design time in #whatwg
# [00:38] <annevk> really nn now :)
# [00:38] <Hixie> nn
# [00:39] * Joins: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net)
# [00:39] * Joins: Simetrical- (~Simetrica@5.144.48.190)
# [00:40] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@2401:fa00:0:fd00:1861:d645:ba45:de60)
# [00:41] * Quits: AryehGregor_ (~Simetrica@mediawiki/simetrical) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [00:42] * Joins: hallvors (~hallvord@office.oslo.opera.com)
# [00:44] * Joins: darobin_ (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
# [00:48] * Joins: weinig_ (~weinig@17.245.111.42)
# [00:51] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [00:51] <Hixie> how does caniuse not have <style scoped>
# [00:51] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl9-248-223.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [00:51] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@2620:149:4:1b01:e400:3a51:965d:74aa) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [00:51] * weinig_ is now known as weinig
# [00:52] * Quits: garciawe_ (~garciaweb@190.244.76.154) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:54] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@17.245.107.141)
# [00:55] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42) (Quit: weinig)
# [00:56] <TabAtkins> annevk: Yo, one more detail. JS Maps now have the set() method return the map, for chaining. They don't currently return the map for delete(), but we're planning to fix that, so URLQuery should match and return the object for both.
# [00:56] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42)
# [00:57] <Hixie> i thought chrome implemented <style scoped>. did support get removed or something?
# [00:57] <TabAtkins> I forget, and Dimitri just left.
# [00:58] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:a190:7b0e:4948:992f) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [00:58] * ap_ is now known as ap
# [00:58] <TabAtkins> annevk: And append() too, obviously.
# [00:58] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
# [00:58] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42) (Client Quit)
# [00:59] <TabAtkins> annevk: That one's easy, so you can just do u.append(k,v).append(k,v2).append(k.v3);
# [00:59] <TabAtkins> But also having the ability to do u.delete(k).append(k,v) is useful.
# [01:07] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.191.30) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [01:14] * GPHemsley can't believe W3C doesn't have a mirror system set up to protect against MIT power outages.
# [01:17] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@2620:149:f01:202:4594:8ad8:6ee1:e704)
# [01:17] * gavinc points a very large number of sites that didn't have anything other then their bellow ground datacenter in NYC
# [01:18] <TabAtkins> GPHemsley: On that note, they're back up.
# [01:19] <gavinc> 11/29/12 04:12 PM by IRC at least ;)
# [01:19] <GPHemsley> gavinc: Sites that are crucial to the workings of the Web? (I didn't notice any sites go down.)
# [01:19] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-ubnnxtmiyyedmjvu)
# [01:19] <gavinc> GPHemsley: not really "the web" but CBS
# [01:20] <GPHemsley> oh, I don't expect news companies to have that level of redundancy
# [01:20] <GPHemsley> I mean, they should
# [01:20] <GPHemsley> but I don't expect it
# [01:20] <GPHemsley> IT companies, though...
# [01:21] <gavinc> yeah I don't think so
# [01:22] <GPHemsley> for maximum point effectiveness, I'll even limit that to just the W3C
# [01:22] <GPHemsley> I won't presume anything about any other entity
# [01:23] * Quits: malydok (marek@156.17.232.82) (Quit: Farewell)
# [01:23] <gavinc> Eh, I remember (was somewhat involved with) turning off a rack at PAIX that ended badly for the West Coast for a few hours, and the overpass fire a few years later that cut most of the fiber in the bay area
# [01:23] <gavinc> disasters are surprising ;)
# [01:23] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
# [01:23] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [01:23] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
# [01:26] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
# [01:27] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-thgqqcypzkyiwtvf)
# [01:29] * Quits: darobin_ (~darobin@78.208.93.24) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:29] * Quits: Simetrical- (~Simetrica@5.144.48.190) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [01:31] * Joins: Simetrical- (~Simetrica@109.226.31.149)
# [01:35] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d0285eb.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:39] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-58-11-112-72.revip2.asianet.co.th)
# [01:40] <TabAtkins> Argh, goddammit, I *really* need to write my own CSS spec preprocessor. >_< Bert's has weird ideas of how to fix up markup it considers invalid.
# [01:47] * Quits: eric_carlson (~ericc@adsl-67-112-12-110.dsl.anhm01.pacbell.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [01:52] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [01:54] <dbaron> TabAtkins, can you use one of the other available ones instead?
# [01:54] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
# [01:54] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [01:56] * Joins: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info)
# [01:56] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.245.107.141) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:57] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:90f6:cb27:7819:55e2)
# [02:02] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:02] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [02:02] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I dunno. I use some of Bert's features heavily (namely, the magic around 'foo' and ''foo'', and the text-based linkage of <dfn> and <i>).
# [02:03] <TabAtkins> If something else can reproduce those, or is easy enough to hack them into, I could do so.
# [02:03] <TabAtkins> Oh, and the biblio syntax [[foo]] and [[!foo]].
# [02:03] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
# [02:07] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42)
# [02:07] <tantek> TabAtkins, that's the one where [[!foo]] means normative (important) foo, right?
# [02:08] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [02:08] * tantek wonders if it would have been too hard to just do [[foo!]] instead (or perhaps patch the preprocessor to accept that too)
# [02:16] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-pmwzdvwqkffvziqn) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
# [02:17] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@38.122.109.194) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [02:19] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [02:23] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [02:26] <TabAtkins> tantek: Yes, it is.
# [02:26] <TabAtkins> tantek: What's the point of moving the !?
# [02:27] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [02:27] <Hixie> ojan_away: yeah the only difference with cross-origin workers vs normal workers is that they're in a different origin
# [02:33] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
# [02:37] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
# [02:37] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
# [02:41] <tantek> TabAtkins, because a trailing ! looks like a shout (of importance), whereas a leading ! looks like an inverter (not).
# [02:48] <dbaron> not in CSS :-P
# [02:48] * Quits: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [02:50] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@2620:149:f01:202:4594:8ad8:6ee1:e704) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [02:54] * Quits: pablof (~pablof@144.189.150.129) (Quit: ^z)
# [02:57] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42) (Quit: weinig)
# [02:58] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
# [03:00] * Joins: snowfox_ben (~benschaaf@c-98-243-88-119.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
# [03:03] * Quits: snowfox_ben (~benschaaf@c-98-243-88-119.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
# [03:11] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p50829411.dip.t-dialin.net)
# [03:18] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net)
# [03:22] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-thgqqcypzkyiwtvf) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
# [03:33] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
# [03:36] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [03:38] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
# [03:48] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
# [03:49] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:90f6:cb27:7819:55e2) (Quit: ap)
# [03:52] * Joins: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl12-180-58.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [03:53] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl9-212-107.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [03:54] * Quits: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl12-180-58.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [03:54] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl11-208-184.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [04:00] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [04:04] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
# [04:04] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-ubnnxtmiyyedmjvu) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [04:05] * Joins: miketaylrrrr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
# [04:05] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [04:15] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [04:18] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl11-208-184.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [04:36] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [04:39] * Quits: linclark (~clark@67.186.35.246) (Quit: linclark)
# [04:45] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@bb119-74-30-231.singnet.com.sg)
# [04:46] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-hrrfspaemqhcjvsw) (Quit: sicking)
# [04:46] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@bb119-74-30-231.singnet.com.sg) (Client Quit)
# [04:48] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@bb119-74-30-231.singnet.com.sg)
# [04:48] * Quits: imrobert (~robert@139.62.87.109) (Quit: leaving)
# [04:49] * Quits: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [04:50] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-kntoefxevwglwama)
# [04:51] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [05:01] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@bb119-74-30-231.singnet.com.sg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [05:03] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [05:03] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@bb119-74-30-231.singnet.com.sg)
# [05:03] * nimbu is now known as divya
# [05:06] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-50-131-117-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [05:08] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [05:10] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [05:11] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
# [05:18] * Parts: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [05:18] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [05:19] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [05:21] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [05:22] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [05:23] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
# [05:28] * Quits: CyclicFlux (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [05:31] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stevefaulkner)
# [05:34] <Hixie> is there anyone with a bunch of patience who would happens to have some version of IE around who could describe to me the sequence of alerts that IE gets while loading http://damowmow.com/playground/demos/onload/001.html ?
# [05:36] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
# [05:41] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
# [05:47] * Quits: divya (~nimbu@bb119-74-30-231.singnet.com.sg) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [05:48] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
# [05:49] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@2401:fa00:0:fd00:1861:d645:ba45:de60) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [05:54] <Hixie> wtf
# [05:54] <Hixie> my mac no longer responds to "f3"
# [05:54] <Hixie> like, the keyboard driven isn't letting that through
# [05:54] <Hixie> the key is physically fine, i can rebind it to "=" and then hitting f3 prints an "="
# [05:55] <Hixie> and i can rebind "=" to f3, and then "=" does nothing.
# [05:55] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [05:55] <Hixie> (yay programmable keyboards0
# [05:55] <Hixie> )
# [05:55] <Hixie> i've tried rebooting my keyboard
# [05:55] <Hixie> guess rebooting the mac is next
# [05:56] * Quits: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162) (Quit: chriseppstein)
# [05:57] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
# [06:00] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-155.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr)
# [06:07] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [06:09] * Quits: mamund_ (mamund@obsidian.recompiled.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [06:09] * Joins: mamund (mamund@obsidian.recompiled.net)
# [06:22] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [06:24] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [06:28] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
# [06:30] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [06:31] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
# [06:32] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [06:35] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [06:39] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [06:41] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-12-98.dyn.iinet.net.au)
# [06:46] * Joins: icaaq (~Adium@c-02aae455.68-1076-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
# [06:46] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156)
# [06:53] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-kntoefxevwglwama) (Quit: sicking)
# [06:54] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-madvumnuqcpywheo)
# [07:09] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [07:09] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [07:10] * Joins: xiinotulp (~plutoniix@ppp-58-8-130-191.revip2.asianet.co.th)
# [07:12] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-58-11-112-72.revip2.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [07:13] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.178.31.221)
# [07:18] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [07:19] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96)
# [07:24] * Quits: webguynow (~webguynow@c-24-1-222-204.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [07:27] * xiinotulp is now known as plutoniix
# [07:31] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stevefaulkner)
# [07:41] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [07:42] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [07:42] * paul_irish is now known as paul_irish_
# [07:42] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
# [07:47] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [07:52] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stevefaulkner)
# [07:57] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [08:00] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
# [08:11] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-155.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [08:14] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-155.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr)
# [08:14] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [08:17] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Quit: cgcardona)
# [08:18] * Joins: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [08:19] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-155.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [08:21] * Quits: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.154.150) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [08:21] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@186.219-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
# [08:22] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stevefaulkner)
# [08:25] * Quits: JohnAlbin_zzzzzz (~JohnAlbin@111-250-147-8.dynamic.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [08:25] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.154.150)
# [08:25] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-147-8.dynamic.hinet.net)
# [08:25] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-147-8.dynamic.hinet.net) (Client Quit)
# [08:25] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [08:26] * Parts: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.154.150)
# [08:34] * Joins: Malese (~Martin_L@194.18.12.26)
# [08:35] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
# [08:38] * Joins: RobbertA_ (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
# [08:38] * Joins: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@205.155.154.125)
# [08:39] * Joins: timeless_ (uid4015@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jogthojgizmwtiiw)
# [08:39] * Quits: timeless (uid4015@firefox/developer/timeless) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [08:39] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:fc8a:f3e7:e9a9:459) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [08:39] * timeless_ is now known as timeless
# [08:40] * Quits: dcheng (dcheng@nat/google/x-wyehdsyhifmdckvg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [08:40] * Joins: dcheng (dcheng@nat/google/x-gseghdyimhmolwbn)
# [08:45] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-madvumnuqcpywheo) (Quit: sicking)
# [08:46] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@2a01:e35:2e8d:b5f0:ea9d:87ff:fe22:e221)
# [08:46] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [08:48] * Quits: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [08:50] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@186.219-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:51] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
# [08:51] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stevefaulkner)
# [08:54] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.178.31.221) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [08:54] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl7-73-68.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [08:56] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@gob75-9-88-178-11-252.fbx.proxad.net)
# [09:02] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-pujxfzajzpbtctow)
# [09:04] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
# [09:17] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [09:18] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [09:18] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [09:21] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl7-73-68.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [09:22] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [09:23] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
# [09:30] * Quits: Malese (~Martin_L@194.18.12.26) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [09:31] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.249.150.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [09:31] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@2a01:e35:2e8d:b5f0:ea9d:87ff:fe22:e221) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [09:32] <annevk> TabAtkins: ah, so the chaining won? interesting
# [09:32] <annevk> TabAtkins: I guess I'll add that once I receive word from TC39
# [09:32] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [09:32] * Joins: Malese (~Martin_L@194.18.12.26)
# [09:33] * Joins: chriseppstein_ (~chrisepps@adsl-99-187-72-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
# [09:34] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@2a01:e35:2e8d:b5f0:ea9d:87ff:fe22:e221)
# [09:34] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
# [09:36] * Joins: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226)
# [09:36] * Quits: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@205.155.154.125) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [09:36] * chriseppstein_ is now known as chriseppstein
# [09:40] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-12-98.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [09:42] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-170-200-160.dyn.iinet.net.au)
# [09:42] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@host-89-243-213-113.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [09:47] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net)
# [09:48] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E38114.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [09:52] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [09:53] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193)
# [09:53] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.71.249)
# [09:53] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.71.249) (Changing host)
# [09:53] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
# [09:57] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
# [10:00] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
# [10:03] <annevk> So URLQuery... When a URLUtils implementing object is created it creates a URLQuery and seeds it with it's url's query. Then whenever url's query is updated (either .href or .search) URLQuery is updated. URLQuery in turn updates the URLUtils implementing object's url's query.
# [10:05] <annevk> DOMTokenList is going to work pretty much the same way, for those interested, and all other objects we're going to introduce (and have introduced, thinking of .style) that need to keep sync with some other object.
# [10:05] * Quits: attiks|away (~chatzilla@d5153136D.static.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [10:07] <annevk> Can someone one-up Google Translate for me? https://twitter.com/kazuhito/status/274437377290817536
# [10:07] * Joins: attiks|away (~chatzilla@d5153136D.static.telenet.be)
# [10:09] <darobin> annevk: maybe MikeSmith?
# [10:10] <MikeSmith> the last part just basically means, "I'm part of the WHATWG."
# [10:10] <MikeSmith> well I assume that's the intended meaning
# [10:10] <MikeSmith> literally it means "I am the WHATWG."
# [10:11] <MikeSmith> the first part I have no idea
# [10:11] <MikeSmith> it's some kind of idiom
# [10:11] <MikeSmith> of which there are a lot in Japanese
# [10:11] <MikeSmith> or at least it's not an expression I'm familiar with
# [10:11] <annevk> yeah, Google says 'Tan ー "I is the WHATWG!!" Hikushi' which is not that great
# [10:12] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.251.96.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
# [10:12] <annevk> was wondering whether it was something funny that could be retweeted from @WHATWG
# [10:13] <MikeSmith> yeah
# [10:13] <MikeSmith> that would be funny
# [10:13] <MikeSmith> I have no idea what the context is for him having tweeted that
# [10:14] <MikeSmith> but I know him
# [10:14] <MikeSmith> his office is right down that street from my place
# [10:14] <MikeSmith> he's Yakura-san's boss
# [10:14] * Joins: gavin__ (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
# [10:15] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [10:15] <MikeSmith> ah
# [10:15] <MikeSmith> Hixie
# [10:15] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl11-208-184.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [10:15] <annevk> ah yeah, I met him; we went out to ate those beans :-)
# [10:15] <MikeSmith> ひくし is Hixies
# [10:15] <MikeSmith> *Hixie
# [10:15] <MikeSmith> ひくしーたん is Hixie-san
# [10:15] <MikeSmith> maybe he's quoting Hixie?
# [10:15] <MikeSmith> Hixie saying, I am the WHATWG?
# [10:16] <darobin> as in "L'État, c'est moi
# [10:16] <annevk> that would make sense I guess, https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/274427815242391553
# [10:16] <darobin> ?
# [10:17] <annevk> darobin: yeah
# [10:17] <darobin> it would indeed be fun for you to RT it from @WHATWG :)
# [10:18] <MikeSmith> annevk: ah, OK, yeah
# [10:18] <MikeSmith> well, it's still funny to retweet it
# [10:18] <annevk> darobin: but but but
# [10:18] <darobin> do it do it do it!
# [10:20] <annevk> okay why not, acknowledging dissent is good
# [10:22] <darobin> I don't know if criticising the institution counts as dissent
# [10:27] <MikeSmith> does criticizing Hixie amount to criticizing the institution?
# [10:27] <MikeSmith> does criticizing the institution amount to criticizing Hixie?
# [10:30] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082B6E7.dip.t-dialin.net)
# [10:34] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p50829411.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [10:35] <MikeSmith> would be funny to follow it up by re-tweeting https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/273715922399805441
# [10:35] <darobin> MikeSmith: I think that's the question that our Japanese friend is putting to the test
# [10:35] <MikeSmith> yeah
# [10:35] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
# [10:35] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [10:36] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
# [10:39] <volkmar> darobin: is there a way to declare an interface with respec without having the attributes + methods definition showing up?
# [10:39] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@151.63.138.88.rev.sfr.net)
# [10:39] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@173-167-102-230-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [10:40] <darobin> volkmar: mmmm, maybe
# [10:40] <darobin> display: none?
# [10:40] <darobin> :)
# [10:40] <darobin> give me a spare afternoon and I'll finish the new IDL support that's a lot nicer...
# [10:42] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
# [10:42] * Quits: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@adsl-99-187-72-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: chriseppstein)
# [10:45] <volkmar> darobin: I guess I could have a look at the generated HTML
# [10:45] <darobin> if you feel so inclined, be my guest
# [10:46] <darobin> I will be doing some maintenance to integrate patches and stuff on Monday
# [10:46] <volkmar> darobin: oh, I will just have a look at what is generated to hide the part I don't want (if I can)
# [10:52] <marcosc> in anolis... ;)
# [10:52] <marcosc> just sayin'
# [10:52] <marcosc> :)
# [10:53] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [10:54] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
# [10:55] <darobin> or like marcosc says you could just write the spec by hand, no features -> no problems!
# [10:56] * marcosc stops trollin darobin :)
# [10:56] <darobin> just sayin'
# [10:56] <darobin> reminds me of when Lachy was bitching about how it's a pain to generate the W3C boilerplate
# [10:57] * Joins: Ferllings (~Ferllings@domogik/developer/ferllings)
# [10:57] * marcosc just bitter about <dl> IDL still ... should write a patch for that.
# [10:58] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@gob75-9-88-178-11-252.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [11:01] <annevk> might have used the wrong word, indeed
# [11:01] * Parts: Ferllings (~Ferllings@domogik/developer/ferllings) ("Linkinus - http://linkinus.com")
# [11:08] * Quits: charl_ (~charl@charl.eu) (Quit: leaving)
# [11:11] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [11:11] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [11:12] * Joins: charl_ (~charl@charl.eu)
# [11:13] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [11:14] <annevk> if we need to introduce a new XHR constructor for e.g. promises, we could call it Fetch maybe
# [11:14] <annevk> and make Fetch define all the things
# [11:15] * Joins: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [11:16] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [11:16] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [11:17] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@gob75-9-88-178-11-252.fbx.proxad.net)
# [11:19] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com)
# [11:19] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-58-8-130-191.revip2.asianet.co.th) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
# [11:23] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
# [11:24] <annevk> my GitHub client just fixed a bug where they didn't handle a space in the repository path, I guess it counts as a browser then
# [11:29] * Joins: gavinc_ (~gavin@50.0.77.3)
# [11:30] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31)
# [11:31] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@50.0.77.3) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [11:39] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl7-73-68.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [11:40] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180)
# [11:42] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [11:42] * Joins: baku (~baku@93-40-124-162.ip38.fastwebnet.it)
# [11:48] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@pat-tazdevil.opera.com)
# [12:02] * Joins: alrra_ (~alrra@188.24.80.194)
# [12:02] * Quits: charl_ (~charl@charl.eu) (Quit: leaving)
# [12:03] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [12:20] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-170-200-160.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [12:23] * Joins: zdobersek1 (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [12:24] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@90.157.243.180) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [12:24] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229)
# [12:26] <annevk> too late for s/ate/eat/?
# [12:26] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [12:26] * Quits: zdobersek1 (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [12:28] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [12:31] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-170-200-160.dyn.iinet.net.au)
# [12:36] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
# [12:40] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
# [12:48] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
# [12:48] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [12:48] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
# [12:48] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [12:51] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
# [12:54] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-170-200-160.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [12:56] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
# [12:59] * Quits: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-siuiickgyyixiexp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [12:59] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-fhkusuzucxbxvskd)
# [13:00] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f733601.pool.mediaWays.net)
# [13:01] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@gob75-9-88-178-11-252.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [13:08] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-7mh.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
# [13:10] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-v32.pool-125-24.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [13:13] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.178.31.221)
# [13:13] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [13:17] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
# [13:19] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [13:19] * Quits: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [13:20] * Joins: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55)
# [13:23] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [13:23] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
# [13:24] * Quits: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [13:26] <annevk> I think I finally hit that point I've been working towards for the last year and a half or so. That where URLs, Encoding, and <form> submission collide.
# [13:27] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [13:28] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-pujxfzajzpbtctow) (Quit: sicking)
# [13:51] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [13:53] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [13:53] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
# [13:58] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash)
# [14:01] * Quits: alrra_ (~alrra@188.24.80.194) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [14:03] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@186.219-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
# [14:11] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
# [14:12] <odinho> annevk: That'd be a place for sugar api, doing these fetch things in a nicer way :]
# [14:13] <annevk> yeah that too
# [14:14] <annevk> (new Fetch({url:"lalaland"})).then(teehee, damnit)
# [14:15] <annevk> (default for method would be GET)
# [14:16] <Ms2ger> Oh dear, another API
# [14:19] <annevk> dunno, just sketching
# [14:20] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash) (Quit: Leaving)
# [14:23] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@cpe-204-210-135-55.hvc.res.rr.com)
# [14:23] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@ge2-0.rt2.rbsov.bbc.co.uk)
# [14:23] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
# [14:24] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [14:26] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@cpe-204-210-135-55.hvc.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
# [14:26] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [14:28] * Joins: alrra_ (~alrra@188.24.80.194)
# [14:31] * Quits: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3625:20c:29ff:fe02:11d2) (Quit: Bye)
# [14:37] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [14:38] * Quits: Workmon (Dashiva@nat/google/x-ksjnipbjgdergmjf) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [14:39] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [14:40] <volkmar> annevk: Fetch could inherits from DOMRequest ^^
# [14:41] <annevk> what is DOMRequest?
# [14:41] <volkmar> hmmm
# [14:41] <volkmar> annevk: https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/base/nsIDOMDOMRequest.idl?force=1
# [14:41] <volkmar> just look at the first interface
# [14:41] <volkmar> we use that a lot in our new Web APIs
# [14:42] <volkmar> and with sicking, we are thinking of extending the API to make it promise-like
# [14:42] <volkmar> it would have some advantages
# [14:43] <annevk> volkmar: ah yeah, Fetch would work with whatever we end up doing for Promises
# [14:43] <annevk> it seems everyone is designing a promise system
# [14:44] <annevk> but not on any mailing lists
# [14:45] <odinho> cue tantek?
# [14:45] <Ms2ger> Email is a support forum
# [14:46] <volkmar> annevk: we are not really designing anything
# [14:46] <volkmar> annevk: I mean, except DOMRequest
# [14:47] <annevk> looks like a design of sorts to me :)
# [14:47] <volkmar> but it's hard to find a place for this little thing to live in
# [14:47] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [14:47] <volkmar> annevk: I asked you some time ago if it could be added to DOMCore (or Ms2ger, maybe)
# [14:47] <volkmar> and I got a no
# [14:47] <volkmar> a full spec for it would be weird I believe
# [14:47] <Ms2ger> Oh?
# [14:47] * Quits: alrra_ (~alrra@188.24.80.194) (Quit: Leaving)
# [14:47] <volkmar> Bas?
# [14:47] <annevk> I don't recall that question either
# [14:48] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.80.194)
# [14:48] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.80.194) (Changing host)
# [14:48] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
# [14:48] <volkmar> I've been told that because it's using EventHandler it is depending on HTML5, thus can't live in DOMCore
# [14:48] <annevk> that makes sense
# [14:48] <annevk> event queueing makes for a HTML dependency too
# [14:48] <annevk> so HTML might be a logical place
# [14:48] <annevk> since any spec with async stuff will need to depend on HTML anyway
# [14:49] <volkmar> why?
# [14:49] <annevk> event loop
# [14:49] <volkmar> doesn't make much sense
# [14:49] <volkmar> to have event loop defined there
# [14:51] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: tomasf)
# [14:53] <annevk> sure, but we haven't found anyone to do that work elsewhere
# [14:57] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
# [14:58] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.113.76)
# [15:02] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [15:04] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [15:05] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [15:07] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
# [15:07] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [15:08] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [15:10] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
# [15:10] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Client Quit)
# [15:12] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193)
# [15:15] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
# [15:18] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
# [15:18] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net)
# [15:19] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@119.161.158.96) (Quit: kennyluck)
# [15:26] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
# [15:27] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
# [15:28] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-36-34-148.dynamic.hinet.net)
# [15:33] <annevk> so URL now defines application/x-www-form-urlencoded
# [15:35] <SimonSapin> annevk: \o/
# [15:37] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se)
# [15:37] <annevk> maybe I'm able to complete URLQuery today
# [15:37] <SimonSapin> And another mega-email to show how Håkon and Bert are wrong about multicol.
# [15:37] <SimonSapin> Sorry, I mean show how I disagree :)
# [15:38] <annevk> SimonSapin: heh
# [15:38] * Quits: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [15:38] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E38114.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [15:41] <annevk> btw, I think we should support constructing URLQuery from a string
# [15:41] <annevk> if you're opposed, let me know
# [15:41] * Joins: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers)
# [15:41] <annevk> (you can seed it from a string already via .search so it only makes sense)
# [15:42] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
# [15:45] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [15:46] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [15:48] <zewt> yeah, the "make a dummy URL just to make a URLQuery" thing is a pretty silly hack
# [15:49] <annevk> well that was already gone
# [15:50] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f733601.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [15:50] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [15:50] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [15:50] <annevk> but shit is pretty complicated
# [15:51] * Joins: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3625:20c:29ff:fe02:11d2)
# [15:52] <annevk> the amount of encoding overrides going around in URL is also insane :/
# [15:53] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
# [15:53] * Joins: eric_carlson (~eric@17.212.152.104)
# [15:54] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Client Quit)
# [15:54] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [15:54] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
# [15:55] * Quits: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [15:56] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [15:57] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [15:57] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
# [15:58] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@61.8.225.36)
# [15:58] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [15:59] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [15:59] <SimonSapin> annevk: how do I get a account to edit wiki.whatwg.org?
# [16:01] <annevk> SimonSapin: pm me your email and desired username
# [16:03] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [16:04] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [16:05] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
# [16:07] * Joins: viktor22_ (~viktor@83.241.206.21)
# [16:08] * Joins: Somatt_wrk_ (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
# [16:10] <SimonSapin> annevk: URLs in non-relative schemes are only made of [scheme, scheme data, query, fragment] right?
# [16:11] <annevk> yes
# [16:12] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.113.76) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
# [16:12] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [16:12] <SimonSapin> annevk: 5.1 Writing seems to confuse relative/absolute URLs (that need a base URL or not) with URLs in a relative/non-relative scheme
# [16:12] <SimonSapin> "An absolute URL is a scheme, followed by ":", followed by scheme data, optionally followed by "?" and a query. "
# [16:14] <annevk> scheme data is elaborated upon for relative schemes
# [16:14] <SimonSapin> oh I missed that, sorry
# [16:15] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [16:16] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [16:16] <SimonSapin> #url-units has a long list of code point ranges. What is excluded? control chars, %, lone surrogate pairs, private use, …?
# [16:17] <annevk> non-characters
# [16:17] <annevk> private use is in I think
# [16:17] <SimonSapin> wouldn’t a "any code point NOT in the ranges …" definition be better?
# [16:17] <annevk> you get about the same I believe
# [16:17] <annevk> HTML has that
# [16:18] * Parts: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net)
# [16:18] <annevk> note that you don't have to deal with all those code units when parsing
# [16:18] <annevk> because they'll be percent encoded
# [16:18] * Joins: chriho (~chriho@p4FD5159C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [16:19] <SimonSapin> my point is I’d like to know what is excluded and why
# [16:20] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31)
# [16:20] <SimonSapin> I have no idea from memory why U+FDD0 is special
# [16:20] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [16:21] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [16:22] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
# [16:25] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [16:26] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [16:29] <annevk> me neither
# [16:30] <annevk> well actually, I believe Martin told me that's an application internal code point
# [16:33] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
# [16:38] <SimonSapin> annevk: is an empty query different from no query once a URL is parsed?
# [16:38] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [16:39] * Joins: chriho_ (~chriho@p4FD5159C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [16:39] <annevk> yes
# [16:40] <annevk> query == null -> "?"
# [16:40] * Quits: Malese (~Martin_L@194.18.12.26) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:40] <annevk> euh oops
# [16:40] <annevk> query == null -> ""; query == "" -> "?"
# [16:40] <SimonSapin> ok
# [16:40] <annevk> same for fragment
# [16:42] * Quits: chriho (~chriho@p4FD5159C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [16:47] * Joins: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.76.154)
# [16:48] <SimonSapin> hum, can I do nested lists in the wiki?
# [16:49] <SimonSapin> ah, double stars
# [16:49] * miketaylrrrr is now known as miketaylr
# [16:53] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:56] <hsivonen> Whoa: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13521554/xpath-in-internet-explorer-10-gone
# [16:56] <annevk> the status field on http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions should maybe be nuked, Hixie? it's kinda useless the way the tables are used; first is proposal, second is rejected proposals, third is crap
# [16:59] <hsivonen> interesting solution: xhr.responseType = "msxml-document";
# [17:03] <zcorpan> doesn't ie10 support xpath in one of the quirkier modes?
# [17:06] <SimonSapin> annevk: does URL or something else have a "percent decode to bytes" algorithm? I think it would be the same as "percent decode", but without the first and last step
# [17:06] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Quit: cgcardona)
# [17:06] <SimonSapin> it would be used for data:
# [17:08] <annevk> SimonSapin: no, but I can add that to URL
# [17:08] <annevk> SimonSapin: but please file a bug, I'm in the middle of the URLQuery mess
# [17:08] <SimonSapin> ok
# [17:12] * Quits: auchenberg (~auchenber@176.222.239.226) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:13] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:16] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [17:21] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
# [17:25] * Joins: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57)
# [17:27] * linclark is now known as linclark|afk
# [17:43] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se) (Quit: tomasf)
# [17:43] <SimonSapin> annevk: wrote up http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/URL_schemes#data:_URLs with inline issues
# [17:44] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@186.219-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: Leaving)
# [17:45] <annevk> cool
# [17:46] * Joins: hdhoang1 (~hdhoang@113.178.31.221)
# [17:48] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.178.31.221) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [17:52] * Joins: attiks|away_ (~chatzilla@d5153136D.static.telenet.be)
# [17:53] * Quits: RobbertA_ (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:53] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
# [17:54] * Joins: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
# [17:54] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2)
# [17:54] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
# [17:54] <dglazkov> odinho: time to go home
# [17:54] * Joins: 1JTAAT8EH (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
# [17:54] * Quits: chriho_ (~chriho@p4FD5159C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
# [17:54] * Quits: attiks|away (~chatzilla@d5153136D.static.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:54] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [17:54] * attiks|away_ is now known as attiks|away
# [17:55] <dglazkov> and feed wife/kids/dog/turtle/evil robot
# [17:55] * Quits: toyoshim (~toyoshim@yuri.twintail.org) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:56] <annevk> http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-urlquery booyah
# [17:56] * Quits: 1JTAAT8EH (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [17:56] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
# [17:57] <annevk> writing the API bit was surprisingly simple once all the string munging became external to it
# [17:57] <odinho> dglazkov: Okay! :D Actually, friday beer, but I did say I'd be down there before all the chocolate was eaten, so I'll go do that now then. Cheers!
# [17:57] <annevk> hmm chocolate
# [17:58] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-219-104.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [18:01] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.251.96.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [18:01] * Quits: foolip (~philip@node-7lfb9tqzdihenb05s.a0.ipv6.opera.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
# [18:04] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
# [18:05] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@114.160.9.254)
# [18:05] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@ge2-0.rt2.rbsov.bbc.co.uk) (Quit: JibberJim)
# [18:06] * Joins: kborchers_ (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers)
# [18:07] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:10] * Quits: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [18:10] * Quits: linclark|afk (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [18:10] * Quits: beverloo (peter@nat/google/x-doeslnpohuzayrlg) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [18:10] * kborchers_ is now known as kborchers
# [18:10] <marcosc> annevk: it's that crappy Freia (Kraft Foods) chocolate, so don't worry ... you are not missing out :)
# [18:10] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.249.153.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
# [18:10] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [18:10] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
# [18:10] * Joins: beverloo (peter@nat/google/x-vvhmzzfdorywhjns)
# [18:10] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [18:10] <annevk> marcosc: dunno man, I like that stuff
# [18:10] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [18:10] <marcosc> annevk: ok ... I like Heineken
# [18:10] <marcosc> :)
# [18:10] <annevk> your loss really
# [18:10] <annevk> mb
# [18:10] <annevk> bjt
# [18:10] <annevk> wut, but I see your point
# [18:13] * Joins: Andre|2 (~Andre@212-107-152-138.customers.ownit.se)
# [18:14] * Quits: Andre|2 (~Andre@212-107-152-138.customers.ownit.se) (Client Quit)
# [18:14] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [18:22] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
# [18:22] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Client Quit)
# [18:25] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55)
# [18:27] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f733601.pool.mediaWays.net)
# [18:28] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@50.0.205.111)
# [18:28] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:90f6:cb27:7819:55e2)
# [18:28] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@50.0.205.111) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:28] * Joins: cyclicflux (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179)
# [18:29] * cyclicflux is now known as Guest57501
# [18:29] * Quits: Guest57501 (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [18:29] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net)
# [18:30] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757d25.dyn.optonline.net) (Client Quit)
# [18:30] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@2a01:e35:2e8d:b5f0:ea9d:87ff:fe22:e221) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [18:31] * Quits: SamB (~SamB@207-172-123-137.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [18:31] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
# [18:31] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.233.31) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:31] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@64.124.34.2)
# [18:31] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@64.124.34.2) (Changing host)
# [18:31] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
# [18:32] * Joins: cyclicflux_ (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179)
# [18:33] * Quits: cyclicflux_ (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [18:33] * Joins: cyclicflux (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179)
# [18:34] * cyclicflux is now known as Guest80149
# [18:37] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [18:38] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
# [18:39] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.154.150)
# [18:39] * Parts: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.154.150)
# [18:40] * Joins: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:211:24ff:feaa:27a)
# [18:43] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
# [18:44] * Quits: hdhoang1 (~hdhoang@113.178.31.221) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [18:48] * Joins: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54)
# [18:49] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158)
# [18:49] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757782.dyn.optonline.net)
# [18:54] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [18:54] * Joins: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info)
# [18:55] * Joins: pablof (~pablof@144.189.150.129)
# [18:56] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082B6E7.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
# [18:57] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@151.63.138.88.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: tzing)
# [18:58] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
# [18:59] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-85-231.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
# [18:59] * Quits: icaaq (~Adium@c-02aae455.68-1076-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [18:59] * Joins: cgcardona_ (~cgcardona@64.124.34.2)
# [18:59] * Quits: cgcardona_ (~cgcardona@64.124.34.2) (Changing host)
# [18:59] * Joins: cgcardona_ (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
# [19:01] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-218.net-89-2-145.rev.numericable.fr)
# [19:02] <GPHemsley> annevk: I've got a present for you: http://wiki.akosma.com/IPhone_URL_Schemes
# [19:02] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [19:02] * cgcardona_ is now known as cgcardona
# [19:03] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
# [19:06] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@17.245.107.141)
# [19:08] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42)
# [19:09] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:90f6:cb27:7819:55e2) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [19:09] * ap_ is now known as ap
# [19:10] * Joins: isherman-book (Adium@nat/google/x-hszbufwhnzururre)
# [19:12] <GPHemsley> gavinc_: 2 of the 3 Ws stand for "World Wide". If the world doesn't blow up, there should be a server somewhere that is capable of picking up the slack if something goes wrong somewhere.
# [19:12] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-bmwzdyvcvjgewwcs)
# [19:15] * Quits: Somatt_wrk_ (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [19:17] <gavinc_> GPHemsley: Fair point.
# [19:19] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [19:19] <GPHemsley> gavinc_: And, frankly, the 3rd W comes into play here, too. What is the Web but a series of interconnected points?
# [19:20] <GPHemsley> Put them all together, and what do you get? A worldwide series of interconnected points... that completely disappears if MIT loses power.
# [19:20] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Quit: adactio)
# [19:22] <annevk> GPHemsley: yeah, those don't matter much fortunately
# [19:23] <GPHemsley> are you not dealing with tel:?
# [19:23] <GPHemsley> sms:?
# [19:23] <annevk> don't need to
# [19:23] <GPHemsley> why not?
# [19:23] * Parts: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757782.dyn.optonline.net)
# [19:23] <annevk> because they're just launching some kind of action
# [19:23] * Quits: isherman-book (Adium@nat/google/x-hszbufwhnzururre) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [19:24] <GPHemsley> So... any scheme that doesn't deal directly with the Web can do what it wants?
# [19:26] <annevk> within the constraints of the URL syntax that is kinda how it works, yes
# [19:27] <GPHemsley> I see
# [19:27] <GPHemsley> so you were only dealing with the issues with URLs only insofar as they affect the Web?
# [19:28] <annevk> hmm, not really
# [19:28] <annevk> URL parsing affects everyone
# [19:28] <annevk> URL schemes I was only interested in those that would affect the upcoming Fetch rewrite
# [19:28] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|lunch
# [19:29] <GPHemsley> what about a URL like this? twinkle://message=text&url=http://foo&image=http://path.to/image.jpg
# [19:29] <annevk> there's a big difference between URL parsing and URL scheme-specific processing
# [19:29] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
# [19:29] <annevk> gotta go
# [19:29] <GPHemsley> how convenient :P
# [19:29] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:30] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:30] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:30] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@64.124.34.2)
# [19:30] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@64.124.34.2) (Changing host)
# [19:30] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
# [19:32] * Quits: barneybook (~Barneyboo@114-44-193-174.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
# [19:32] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f733601.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:35] * Joins: charl_ (~charl@charl.eu)
# [19:38] <TabAtkins> annevk: Promises are being worked on in tc39. Ideally, DOM will wait on them finishing that work, or at least finishing enough of the API decisions that we can engrave them into the web.
# [19:41] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
# [19:43] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [19:46] <TabAtkins> Based on what I can see at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#embedding-custom-non-visible-data-with-the-data-*-attributes , it looks like el.dataset doesnt' have any setting behavior.
# [19:46] <TabAtkins> Specifically, if you pull el.dataset off the element, then try to assign it to another element, behavior isn't defined?
# [19:46] <TabAtkins> Am I right, or missing something?
# [19:47] <Hixie> it's readonly, if that's what you mean
# [19:47] <TabAtkins> That is what I mean, yes.
# [19:47] <TabAtkins> Any reason for that?
# [19:47] <Hixie> behaviour is defined, it does whatever you do when you assign a readonly attribute a value
# [19:47] <Hixie> generally we don't support assigning objects like that from one to another element, but no reason beyond that that i know of
# [19:48] <Hixie> generally if you wanted to do this you'd just clone the node
# [19:48] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
# [19:48] <TabAtkins> My friend estelle apparently has a use-case for doing what I described.
# [19:48] <Hixie> tell them to mail the list describing it :-)
# [19:49] * Joins: WeirdAl_ (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info)
# [19:50] * Quits: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57) (Quit: Leaving)
# [19:50] * Joins: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57)
# [19:51] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@114.160.9.254) (Quit: MikeSmith)
# [19:51] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
# [19:51] <Hixie> sweet, http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1944 reliably crashes chrome when you click the link
# [19:52] <Hixie> safari, too
# [19:53] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [19:53] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@2a01:e35:2f52:ead0:21e:8cff:feeb:d962)
# [19:54] * Joins: cyclicflux_ (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179)
# [19:54] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@pat-tazdevil.opera.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [19:57] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-bmwzdyvcvjgewwcs) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: Guest80149 (~cyclicflu@96.244.70.179) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: beverloo (peter@nat/google/x-vvhmzzfdorywhjns) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.76.154) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-fhkusuzucxbxvskd) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: viktor22_ (~viktor@83.241.206.21) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:2c82:42bb:4304:3ff4) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: isherman (isherman@nat/google/x-ituwzzbawxkmnydv) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: kochi (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1004:26be:5ff:fe03:db82) (*.net *.split)
# [19:57] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-85-231.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [20:03] * Joins: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162)
# [20:03] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
# [20:03] * Joins: 1JTAAUCDA (~eric@2620:149:4:1b01:103c:f57:c810:4cff)
# [20:03] * Joins: beverloo (peter@nat/google/x-xfsazbkoftklhnns)
# [20:03] * Joins: kochi (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1004:26be:5ff:fe03:db82)
# [20:03] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158)
# [20:03] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [20:03] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
# [20:03] * Joins: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.76.154)
# [20:03] * Joins: viktor22_ (~viktor@83.241.206.21)
# [20:03] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-fhkusuzucxbxvskd)
# [20:03] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
# [20:03] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:2c82:42bb:4304:3ff4)
# [20:03] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
# [20:03] * Joins: isherman (isherman@nat/google/x-ituwzzbawxkmnydv)
# [20:03] * Joins: icaaq (~Adium@c-02aae455.68-1076-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
# [20:03] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
# [20:03] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42) (Quit: weinig)
# [20:05] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.245.107.141) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:05] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:e008:a34c:1490:6896)
# [20:08] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [20:08] * Quits: eric_carlson (~eric@17.212.152.104) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
# [20:10] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
# [20:10] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [20:16] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
# [20:18] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25)
# [20:18] <Hixie> hm, no darobin and no nessy
# [20:19] <Hixie> anyone here follow the htmlwg commits closely enough to help me understand what patches have been committed and which haven't?
# [20:20] <Hixie> r7534 seems to be in, but r7533 doesn't. I can't work out if that's intentional, if it's documented, or what.
# [20:21] <Hixie> but there's like 15 branches and i've no idea what they are for
# [20:21] <Hixie> so confused
# [20:21] * abstractj|lunch is now known as abstractj
# [20:21] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@141.sub-70-199-73.myvzw.com)
# [20:22] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
# [20:23] <annevk> TabAtkins: I don't really see how TC39 can work on them without having an event loop
# [20:23] <TabAtkins> annevk: ???
# [20:23] <TabAtkins> annevk: (I know the context is promises, I just want more elaboration.)
# [20:24] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-zrmesiexgtxcgmth)
# [20:24] <annevk> Promises are for asynchronous handling. Nothing in ECMAScript has that. That's all defined by HTML.
# [20:26] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
# [20:27] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stevefaulkner)
# [20:31] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [20:31] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl7-73-68.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: http://www.visitportugal.com | http://www.youtube.com/visitportugal)
# [20:33] * Joins: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757782.dyn.optonline.net)
# [20:35] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [20:38] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-tkibeankqnzdijsr)
# [20:38] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
# [20:39] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [20:40] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
# [20:40] <Hixie> ah, excellent, darobin
# [20:40] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
# [20:41] <Hixie> darobin: can you help me understand what patches have been committed to the htmlwg branch(es) and which haven't? specifically, i'm trying to work out if r7533 is in. r7534 seems to be.
# [20:42] <Hixie> darobin: and if it's not, i'm trying to work out if this is documented anywhere.
# [20:46] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [20:46] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-nworxktvkxordfcj)
# [20:47] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
# [20:49] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@141.sub-70-199-73.myvzw.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [20:49] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
# [20:51] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-tkibeankqnzdijsr) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
# [20:51] * Joins: nephyrin (~neph@nat/mozilla/x-lhcvrqvjnncvcpmf)
# [20:53] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42)
# [20:54] <annevk> so what's a good name for an IDL attribute that turns a DOMString into a code point sequence and does not make it attractive for API designers to plaster all over?
# [20:55] <Hixie> what interface is it on?
# [20:55] <annevk> I initially thought [Unicode] DOMString but that might be copied quite enthusiastically
# [20:55] <Hixie> oh you mean a webidl annotation thingy?
# [20:55] <annevk> Hixie: all over URL, Encoding, and some of XHR
# [20:55] <Hixie> not an actual idl attribute
# [20:55] <Hixie> ok
# [20:55] <Hixie> um
# [20:55] <Hixie> hmm
# [20:55] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114) (Quit: rniwa)
# [20:55] <annevk> the other one I had was [UTF] DOMString
# [20:56] <Hixie> wait, what exactly does this do?
# [20:56] <Hixie> aren't all DOMStrings code point sequences?
# [20:57] <annevk> Hixie: it does http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#dfn-obtain-unicode but without invoking that algorithm all over
# [20:57] <Hixie> this is on getting? on setting?
# [20:57] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42) (Client Quit)
# [20:57] <annevk> setting
# [20:58] <Hixie> so on setting, it cleans up the DOMString so that it's valid Unicode, not just potentially-invalid UTF-16?
# [20:58] <Hixie> hmm
# [20:58] <annevk> yeah, because once you start doing utf-8 operations on it, you kinda want that
# [20:58] <Hixie> [SanitizeUnicodeForTransmissionOnSetting]
# [20:59] <annevk> and then I'll typedef it as UTFString
# [20:59] <annevk> because that makes the IDL unreadable
# [20:59] <Hixie> making the idl unreadable was the point, i thought
# [20:59] <Hixie> you wanted people not to use it
# [21:00] <annevk> yeah, but I also want developers to be able to look at the IDL normally, hmm
# [21:00] <annevk> I guess one of those is not going to work
# [21:01] <Hixie> the cost of the three developers whe make it to the spec having to squint a bit is probably lower than the cost of the 5 spec writers who see it and use it
# [21:01] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@2620:149:4:1b01:2838:4ac4:8a1a:7c82)
# [21:01] <Hixie> assuming you mean web devs, not UA devs
# [21:02] <MikeSmith> Hixie: about the commits, I don't follow them closely, but as far as I can tell neither r7534 nor r7533 are in. https://github.com/w3c/html/commits/master The latest change pulled into that branch seems to be r7529
# [21:03] <Hixie> oh i got confused between ..34 and ..29
# [21:03] <Hixie> that explains it
# [21:03] <MikeSmith> yeah
# [21:03] <MikeSmith> "Clarify" vs "Clarity"
# [21:03] <Hixie> and nearly the same patch
# [21:04] <Hixie> ok so where's r7528?
# [21:04] <MikeSmith> dunno but maybe Silvia did not pull it
# [21:04] <Hixie> is that documented anywhere?
# [21:05] <Hixie> it's not a controversial one, i mean, it's one she wanted...
# [21:05] <Hixie> i'm so confused
# [21:05] <MikeSmith> need to ask Silvia I guess :)
# [21:06] <MikeSmith> there's basically no discussion ahead of time about what changes to pull
# [21:06] <MikeSmith> Silvia sends a summary message every week listing what she's pulled
# [21:06] * Quits: gavinc_ (~gavin@50.0.77.3) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
# [21:06] <MikeSmith> afterwards
# [21:06] <Hixie> yeah it's kinda ridiculous that the supposedly most public group has two lists so secret not even members can see them, and that's where all their decisions happen
# [21:07] * Joins: gavinc (~gavin@50.0.77.3)
# [21:08] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-4-198-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [21:08] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-4-198-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [21:08] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
# [21:09] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [21:17] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-210-221.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
# [21:17] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
# [21:17] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
# [21:18] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-nworxktvkxordfcj) (Quit: sicking)
# [21:19] * Quits: baku (~baku@93-40-124-162.ip38.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: Leaving)
# [21:22] * Joins: bGriz (~quassel@blackhole.space150.com)
# [21:27] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se)
# [21:29] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:29] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-4-198-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [21:29] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-4-198-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [21:29] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
# [21:31] * Quits: thisgeek (~chris@ool-45757782.dyn.optonline.net) (Quit: thisgeek)
# [21:34] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42)
# [21:37] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl11-208-184.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [21:38] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [21:38] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
# [21:39] * Joins: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
# [21:40] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com)
# [21:40] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2)
# [21:41] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [21:43] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.111.42) (Quit: weinig)
# [21:43] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-146-67-64.as13285.net)
# [21:48] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [21:52] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90)
# [21:53] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-ujaqxczfbgsqnumi)
# [21:59] <annevk> Hixie: you use both "file name" and "filename"
# [21:59] <annevk> (my problem is searching for instances)
# [22:00] <Hixie> that's plausible
# [22:00] <Hixie> file a bug if you can't find a pattern :-)
# [22:00] * Hixie figures out why his f3 key is acting weird
# [22:00] <Hixie> i seem to have somehow bound it to the "rewind" key
# [22:01] <Hixie> i wonder how and how to fix it
# [22:01] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-149-183-246.dyn.iinet.net.au)
# [22:02] <annevk> I first thought the pattern was plural, but it appears to be mood of the day instead
# [22:03] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [22:03] <Hixie> nessy! maybe you can answer the question. i've been trying to work out if r7528 is in the htmlwg spec, and if not, if that's documented anywhere (r7529 seems to be in)
# [22:04] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [22:04] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
# [22:06] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
# [22:07] <annevk> Hixie: btw http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#application/x-www-form-urlencoded
# [22:08] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@144.sub-70-199-75.myvzw.com)
# [22:15] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stevefaulkner)
# [22:18] * Joins: krawchyk_ (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
# [22:18] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.107.125)
# [22:19] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@186.219-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
# [22:19] <Hixie> annevk: does the encoding only take effect for values after the _charset_ is seen? and you can set multiple _charset_s?
# [22:20] <Hixie> annevk: i would have thought the first _charset_ would affect all values
# [22:21] <annevk> Hixie: thanks, will fix
# [22:21] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
# [22:21] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
# [22:23] * Quits: krawchyk_ (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [22:23] <Hixie> annevk: my algorithm had that right already dude :-P
# [22:23] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@144.sub-70-199-75.myvzw.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [22:23] <annevk> Hixie: your algorithm didn't skip empty strings (e.g. ?test&&test) dude :-P
# [22:24] <annevk> but yes, I should have copy-and-pasted-and-fixed better :)
# [22:24] <Hixie> you also seem to have lost isindex support
# [22:26] <annevk> yeah, I thought the idea was HTML would handle that?
# [22:26] <Hixie> my algorithm seems to handle && fine
# [22:26] <Hixie> in parsing?
# [22:27] <annevk> hmm yeah, maybe for parsing it should be handled here
# [22:27] <Hixie> also you don't define "splitting"
# [22:28] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl)
# [22:28] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl) (Changing host)
# [22:28] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick)
# [22:28] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.107.125) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [22:28] <Hixie> interesting, your definition of "percent decode" does a lot more than just decoding %s
# [22:28] <TabAtkins> Where is the handling of isindex actually explained?
# [22:29] * TabAtkins looked in the parser and in the obsolete features section.
# [22:29] <Hixie> TabAtkins: in about five places in HTML, currently, just search for "isindex", you'll find them all
# [22:29] <TabAtkins> Ugh, I've gotta load single-page then. ;_;
# [22:29] <Hixie> yes
# [22:30] <Hixie> google-provided hardware and software handle the single-page fine. :-P
# [22:30] <TabAtkins> Yeah yeah, it still takes about 5s to load the page.
# [22:30] <Hixie> i just leave it open
# [22:30] <Hixie> annevk: for serialisation, we said i'd just keep the html spec's, right?
# [22:30] <annevk> Hixie: so your preference is that && results in a pair whose name and value are both empty?
# [22:30] <SimonSapin> loading single-page is one of the reasons I might start up chromium
# [22:31] <Hixie> annevk: i don't really have a preference, but that's what the html spec does
# [22:31] <Hixie> annevk: depends what problem we're trying to solve, really
# [22:31] <annevk> Hixie: I think the idea was for serialization to reuse the generic part and fill in some specific bits
# [22:31] <annevk> Hixie: so HTML would do some pre-processing on the name-value pairs it supplies
# [22:32] * Joins: snowfox_ben (~benschaaf@50-77-199-197-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [22:32] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [22:32] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
# [22:33] * Quits: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:211:24ff:feaa:27a) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [22:34] * Joins: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:211:24ff:feaa:27a)
# [22:35] <Hixie> annevk: your algorithm does encoding on a per-character basis
# [22:35] <Hixie> annevk: that doesn't work for stateful encodings.
# [22:35] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-wqlykwagxkahqdmd)
# [22:36] <annevk> it does work, but it's not what impls do
# [22:36] <Hixie> well it returns strings that are way longer than ideal
# [22:37] <Hixie> also your algorithm sometimes results in strings that contain %20 instead of +
# [22:37] <Hixie> (if the encoding encodes a character to a stateful string that contains 0x20)
# [22:37] * Quits: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: stevefaulkner)
# [22:38] <Hixie> i'm starting to have the same concerns abarth mentioned the other day :-P
# [22:38] <annevk> no kidding
# [22:38] <annevk> but thanks for the feedback
# [22:38] <Hixie> :-:)
# [22:38] <Hixie> er
# [22:38] <Hixie> :-) even
# [22:39] <Hixie> right, back to working out poster frames
# [22:40] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.107.125)
# [22:49] * Joins: snowfox (~benschaaf@50-77-199-197-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [22:52] * Quits: snowfox_ben (~benschaaf@50-77-199-197-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [22:52] * snowfox is now known as snowfox_ben
# [22:52] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.107.125) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [22:55] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [22:55] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.107.125)
# [22:56] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25)
# [22:56] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
# [22:59] * Quits: snowfox_ben (~benschaaf@50-77-199-197-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: snowfox_ben)
# [23:04] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-ymwmyvtipynpanby)
# [23:05] <SimonSapin> "If you look at Microformats just right, it really is RDF." 2008, http://standardssuck.org/grddl-bridging-the-interwebs
# [23:06] <Hixie> everything is rdf if you "look at it right", that's what the RDF people think makes RDF so powerful, and is what I think makes RDF so pointless :-)
# [23:06] <SimonSapin> "GRDDL is the red pill for the web"
# [23:06] * Joins: stevefaulkner (~stevefaul@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [23:08] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: Could you add the Display module to the CSS component in bugzilla?
# [23:08] <MikeSmith> sure
# [23:09] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2)
# [23:09] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: put you at the default assignee? Or somebody else?
# [23:10] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.107.125) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [23:12] <stevefaulkner> MikeSmith: pinged u about some advice
# [23:12] <MikeSmith> yup
# [23:13] <stevefaulkner> did you get my mail?
# [23:13] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: Me, please.
# [23:15] * Quits: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.76.154) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:16] * Quits: icaaq (~Adium@c-02aae455.68-1076-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [23:19] <Hixie> jgraham: yt?
# [23:20] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Note that you don't need to report the intrinsic width/height as 300/150. The sizing algorithm in CSS fills that in automatically.
# [23:20] <Hixie> ah, cool. you got a link to that text? i'll file a bug on me to remove any mentions of those dimensions where possible
# [23:21] <TabAtkins> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#default-sizing
# [23:21] <Hixie> ta
# [23:25] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
# [23:25] * Quits: sangwhan (~sangwhan@211.201.105.54) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [23:25] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
# [23:28] <Hixie> gecko spins the event loop during the onbeforeunload prompt? what?
# [23:28] <Hixie> meanwhile opera just ignores my onbeforeunload entirely
# [23:28] * Quits: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [23:28] <Hixie> ok. zero interop.
# [23:28] <Hixie> guess i can do what i want then!
# [23:28] <Hixie> -_-
# [23:33] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [23:38] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-ujaqxczfbgsqnumi) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:41] * Joins: yodasw16_ (~yodasw16@c-71-238-227-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
# [23:41] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@186.219-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: nn)
# [23:42] * Quits: yodasw16_ (~yodasw16@c-71-238-227-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
# [23:44] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
# [23:45] <Hixie> ok i need a test where the page takes a long time to load, has an onload handler, and a link.
# [23:45] <Hixie> should be easy enough...
# [23:45] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [23:46] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:47] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-ymwmyvtipynpanby) (Quit: sicking)
# [23:50] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net)
# [23:51] * Quits: griswold (~quassel@blackhole.space150.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:51] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@208.106.28.36)
# [23:53] * Quits: bGriz (~quassel@blackhole.space150.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:53] * Joins: griswold (~quassel@vpn.space150.com)
# [23:55] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly)
# [23:55] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
# [23:57] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-wxygovisujwbighl)
# [23:57] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.107.125)
# [23:58] <TabAtkins> annevk: What do you think about a two-arg has(), same as delete()?
# [23:58] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [23:58] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
# [23:59] <Hixie> ok seriously
# [23:59] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-tvqjecsvmycppopc)
# [23:59] <Hixie> how do i dispable compression on apache via .htaccess files
# [23:59] <Hixie> disable, even
# Session Close: Sat Dec 01 00:00:00 2012

The end :)