/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-05-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue May 07 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  28. # [00:49] <annevk> ah yeah
  29. # [00:50] <annevk> that's why you need to get to the server
  30. # [00:50] <annevk> to get some details
  31. # [00:50] <annevk> oh
  32. # [00:51] <annevk> IE11 has __defineGetter__
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  40. # [01:05] <annevk> arv: there's various different open issues with respect to Document objects
  41. # [01:05] <annevk> arv: one is that HTML attempts to merge most of them into one
  42. # [01:05] <annevk> arv: which is good as getting different document objects based on MIME type was just confusing
  43. # [01:06] <annevk> arv: but whether it's compatible has yet to be fully tested
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  127. # [04:21] <kochi> morning, whatwg!
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  132. # [04:39] <zewt> i guess
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  168. # [07:09] <annevk5> Hmm, nested URL schemes...
  169. # [07:10] <SimonSapin> like git+http: ?
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  176. # [07:25] <annevk5> no, like view-source or jar
  177. # [07:25] * annevk5 is now known as annevk
  178. # [07:25] <annevk> my initial plan was to not support them, but it seems like jar might be liked enough to justify adding either some kind of parser exception or whatever Gecko is doing at the moment
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  182. # [07:27] <SimonSapin> annevk: "A relative scheme is a scheme listed in the first column of the following table." Is this table set in stone, or are applications expected to add to it?
  183. # [07:28] <annevk> if it needs to be bigger, the table should be expanded
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  187. # [07:34] <SimonSapin> annevk: the git-clone man page lists ssh: git: ftps: rsync:
  188. # [07:34] <SimonSapin> but I don’t expect these to be supported by a browser
  189. # [07:35] <annevk> it's also not necessarily all URL schemes ever, they need to parse in a certain way too
  190. # [07:36] <SimonSapin> also, some Python packaging tools support multiple VCSs by having syntax like git+<URL> or hg+<URL>
  191. # [07:37] <annevk> but we can definitely expand it if there's need, this is just an initial set
  192. # [07:37] <SimonSapin> so you end up with hg+http: git+http: git+ssh: …
  193. # [07:37] <SimonSapin> I’m asking whether we should
  194. # [07:37] <SimonSapin> people are gonna keep inventing crazy schemes for their use
  195. # [07:38] <SimonSapin> should the URL Standard maintain a registry that people ask being added to?
  196. # [07:38] <annevk> oh, that'd be kinda separate
  197. # [07:38] <annevk> yeah, there should be a registry somewhere of what's in use
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  262. # [11:15] <jgraham> zcorpan: FWIW I think the correct response to the title of the differences document is "you are wasting my time and the time of everyone on the mailing list. Please stop."
  263. # [11:15] <jgraham> Although perhaps not in quite such a blunt way :)
  264. # [11:15] <jgraham> *discussion on the title of the
  265. # [11:15] <zcorpan> yeah
  266. # [11:16] <zcorpan> or maybe i should stop responding
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  288. # [13:15] <hsivonen> Did the HTML WG chartering discussion for which there are no public minutes get minuted Member-confidentially?
  289. # [13:17] <gsnedders> Are charter discussions not normally AB-confidential?
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  291. # [13:22] <hsivonen> gsnedders: dunno
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  293. # [13:22] <hsivonen> w3cmemes suggested that chartering was discussed at a WG meeting rather than an AB meeting
  294. # [13:22] <hsivonen> I might have misunderstood w3cmemes
  295. # [13:23] <gsnedders> It's often discussed at a WG meeting, but the WG can't do anything but shout at the AB, I believe.
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  300. # [13:33] <hallvors> should setRequestHeader() accept input of any length, even very long strings?
  301. # [13:41] <jgraham> Why wouldn't it?
  302. # [13:42] <SteveF> hsivonen: there was some responses to comments on the charter in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/
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  306. # [13:49] <hallvors> jgraham: assuming implementations have some limitations on how much data they accept, if so perhaps the method should throw when exceeding them or someting..?
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  311. # [14:24] <zcorpan> hallvors: that usually falls under the "hardware limitations" clause
  312. # [14:24] <zcorpan> hallvors: (do impls have limitations?)
  313. # [14:24] <hallvors> OK. JS is genetically engineered to not bother about OOM I guess
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  315. # [14:25] <zcorpan> right
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  320. # [14:38] <ambv> gsnedders: re https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/showcomment?chain=153 - this is not an etree test, this is a dom test which was missing before (there were only tests for simpletree in fact). now I test both.
  321. # [14:38] <ambv> I agree with hardcoding {namespace}html, will do that momentarily
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  324. # [14:52] <gsnedders> ambv: I mean I'd rather use html5lib.parse("<html>", treebuilder="dom") or so instead of hardcoding dom.TreeBuilder.
  325. # [14:52] <gsnedders> ambv: Because dom.TreeBuilder is really legacy and should be got at through dom.getTreeBuilder(minidom)
  326. # [14:52] <ambv> I changed that to use treebuilders.getTreeBuilder("dom"), is that okay too?
  327. # [14:52] <gsnedders> Yeah, that's fine.
  328. # [14:53] <ambv> also, https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/showcomment?chain=152
  329. # [14:54] <gsnedders> ambv: Responded
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  332. # [14:57] <gsnedders> ambv: https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-python/pull/47
  333. # [15:05] <ambv> is lxml.etree still limited compared to xml.etree?
  334. # [15:06] <gsnedders> ambv: It handles doctypes entirely differently to xml.etree
  335. # [15:10] <ambv> gsnedders: you should wait with your other pull requests so that you could fill in CHANGES.rst :P
  336. # [15:10] <ambv> I'll help with scraping information from the git logs for older releases
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  367. # [16:14] <ambv> jgraham: gsnedders: DjangoCon EU is next week, I would want to make a lightning talk on html5lib 1.0 on it
  368. # [16:15] <jgraham> Nice idea
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  370. # [16:15] <ambv> we will need 1.0 to be ready by that time, ideally with a new homepage and docs :>
  371. # [16:16] <jgraham> Hahaha
  372. # [16:16] <jgraham> But seriously…
  373. # [16:16] <jgraham> I think it's a good idea to do a talk whether or not 1.0 is ready
  374. # [16:17] <jgraham> And I think a new homepage and docs are also a good idea
  375. # [16:17] <jgraham> But I don't see us having some beautiful homepage and perfect docs in a week
  376. # [16:17] <ambv> well
  377. # [16:17] <ambv> We don't have to write a book
  378. # [16:18] <jgraham> Actually I don't see us having a beautiful homepage ever, unless someone with some design skills gets involved
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  380. # [16:18] <ambv> And a homepage like html5lib.rtfd.org with the default theme (like http://kazoo.readthedocs.org) is totally enough
  381. # [16:19] <ambv> it's nice, standard and looks good
  382. # [16:19] <jgraham> Sure a page on readthedocs.org would be nice
  383. # [16:19] <ambv> this can be done by next week
  384. # [16:19] <jgraham> Yeah, that seems somewhat achiveable
  385. # [16:20] <ambv> AFAIU all the issues gsnedders wanted to close for 1.0 are either closed or a PR is waiting for being merged
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  387. # [16:24] <annevk> "WebIDL level 1 is likely to be finished in a few months, with level 2 work ongoing." this would surprise me if actually true
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  392. # [16:40] <darobin> annevk: where is that from?
  393. # [16:41] <annevk> darobin: chaals' summary
  394. # [16:44] <gsnedders> ambv: Using Sphinx and then readthedocs was kinda my plan
  395. # [16:44] <gsnedders> ambv: Though I was planning on shipping 1.0 without it :P
  396. # [16:44] <gsnedders> jgraham: Any thoughts on changing the maintainer?
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  444. # [18:13] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  461. # [18:39] <matjas> “That WhatWG doc sows confusion and should disappear.” — http://twitter.com/awbjs/status/331807099417923585
  462. # [18:39] <matjas> it disappearing is pretty much the end goal, indeed
  463. # [18:39] <matjas> but the “confusion” part is confusing
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  465. # [18:42] <Ms2ger> AFAICT, Allen is a troll
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  467. # [18:43] <annevk> Ms2ger, also editor of ES6
  468. # [18:43] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  469. # [18:43] <miketaylr> isn't IE11 adding __defineGetter__?
  470. # [18:43] <miketaylr> (allegedly)
  471. # [18:43] <Ms2ger> So I also get to blame him for using Word
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  473. # [18:43] <annevk> But yeah, that's not a nice thing to say. Especially since he hasn't defined basic things that are part of JS such as <!--, -->, date parsing, etc.
  474. # [18:44] <annevk> Although matjas' document does not define date parsing either thus far.
  475. # [18:46] <matjas> miketaylr: hmm, IE did close my bug reports as WONTFIX
  476. # [18:46] <miketaylr> matjas: http://fremycompany.com/BG/2013/Internet-Explorer-11-9385-new-features-771/
  477. # [18:46] <miketaylr> of course that's "leaked" or whatever
  478. # [18:47] <matjas> miketaylr: oh wow! interesting
  479. # [18:47] <annevk> matjas, well well, https://twitter.com/awbjs/status/331812114333319170
  480. # [18:47] <annevk> matjas, there might be hope yet :)
  481. # [18:48] <matjas> annevk: \o/
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  484. # [18:56] <matjas> https://bugs.ecmascript.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1471 now to file bugs for everything else in Web ECMAScript…
  485. # [18:57] <annevk> thanks matjas
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  487. # [19:01] <matjas> i wish i could work on this full time for a few weeks or so
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  494. # [19:06] <annevk> matjas: how's the teaching going?
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  503. # [19:16] <matjas> annevk: it’s both awesome and tiresome
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  506. # [19:21] <GPHemsley> Argh, just noticed I never pushed the change to mimesniff I made back in March, which swapped "MIME type" for "media type"
  507. # [19:22] <annevk> why rename that? :/
  508. # [19:24] <GPHemsley> change goes <-
  509. # [19:24] <GPHemsley> the argument at the time was to leave "media type" for CSS
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  512. # [19:26] <GPHemsley> also, just realized that mimesniff is being treated as a "fork" for contribution considerations, meaning github is waiting for changes to merge "upstream"
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  514. # [19:28] <annevk> GPHemsley: I'm not following. Leaving media type for CSS is exactly what we want I think. Also, MIME type is way more established within our set of documents.
  515. # [19:28] <GPHemsley> annevk: And I'm saying that's exactly what this commit delivers
  516. # [19:29] <GPHemsley> "media type" was replaced with "MIME type"
  517. # [19:30] <annevk> GPHemsley: maybe I misunderstand the concept 'swapped "MIME type" for "media type"' then.
  518. # [19:30] <GPHemsley> ;)
  519. # [19:30] <annevk> "Give (one thing) and receive something else in exchange." hmm
  520. # [19:30] <annevk> oh well
  521. # [19:31] <GPHemsley> it's ambiguous, I admit
  522. # [19:31] <GPHemsley> but I think we're on the same page now :)
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  524. # [19:33] <GPHemsley> annevk: Do you know if platform.html5.org also has any intention of being "upstreamed" to Michael Smith's user repo? (I can include it in my support request if we want it converted to a "normal" repo.)
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  526. # [19:36] <GPHemsley> MikeSmith: Oh, ^^
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  529. # [19:41] <annevk> GPHemsley: oh no, it's the new repo
  530. # [19:41] <annevk> GPHemsley: we're all pushing to that one now
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  535. # [19:54] <MikeSmith> GPHemsley: what annevk said
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  541. # [20:03] <GPHemsley> annevk, MikeSmith: OK, I'll include it in my support request, then.
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  560. # [20:28] <smaug____> someone started to write a spec for selection
  561. # [20:28] <smaug____> where might that be
  562. # [20:29] <jgraham> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/editing/raw-file/tip/editing.html#selections
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  564. # [20:30] <jgraham> This mixed content blocking thing breaks sites :|
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  568. # [20:55] <manu-db> For those of you that are interested in browser-based payments - https://manu.sporny.org/2013/browser-payments/
  569. # [20:55] <manu-db> We're having a call on that spec next week (open to the public) - it would be good to have someone there from Opera, Safari, and Chrome team.
  570. # [20:56] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  571. # [20:57] <manu-db> non-HTTPS link: http://manu.sporny.org/2013/browser-payments/ (other one throws up a cert warning)
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  593. # [22:09] <ambv> \o/ simpletree is no more.
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  599. # [22:16] <annevk> you guys killed it?
  600. # [22:16] <annevk> aw
  601. # [22:16] <ambv> yup, etree is the default now.
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  603. # [22:18] <gsnedders> annevk: mwhahaha!
  604. # [22:19] <annevk> gsnedders: heh
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  610. # [22:23] <gsnedders> annevk: Speaking of which, I might be at your end of the country sometime in the next month or two.
  611. # [22:24] <annevk> gsnedders: given an opportune time, I might be too :-)
  612. # [22:24] <jgraham> They gave annevk a whole end of the country?
  613. # [22:25] <ambv> gsnedders: I'm updating the change log for stuff merged since 0.95
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  616. # [22:25] * annevk is doing this crazy LHR-SFO-LHR-TSA-LHR-NRT-LHR thingie
  617. # [22:27] <jgraham> You're planning a stay with the TSA?
  618. # [22:28] <annevk> it's not just an agency apparently
  619. # [22:28] <tantek> Taiwan?
  620. # [22:28] <annevk> tantek: yeah
  621. # [22:29] <tantek> bummer of a TLA
  622. # [22:29] <annevk> heh
  623. # [22:31] <gsnedders> ambv: Good luck. I was planning on only caring about API changes. :)
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  625. # [22:32] <ambv> people are curious
  626. # [22:35] <jgraham> They are? I assume people only read changelogs to find out why stuff broke. Or to learn about new features, perhaps.
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  628. # [22:41] <ambv> I'm often curious and nervous if I don't see a change log on a library *before* I update
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  632. # [22:42] <ambv> writing mission critical software is no fun
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  637. # [22:48] <ambv> gsnedders: https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-python/blob/master/html5lib/serializer/htmlserializer.py#L9 - this can be removed as well, I presume.
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  644. # [23:03] <gsnedders> ambv: You have push access. Go change. :)
  645. # [23:04] <ambv> \o/
  646. # [23:04] <gsnedders> ambv: In general though, review-then-commit.
  647. # [23:05] <ambv> sure thing, I see that you do that, so I will too, naturally.
  648. # [23:06] <ambv> …but I still don't like Critic. <unsee who="jgraham"/>
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  656. # [23:21] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  657. # [23:22] <heycam> annevk, "finished" = addressed the open issues; I'm going to try for that few month deadline
  658. # [23:23] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  659. # [23:23] <annevk> heycam: I'm missing some context I'm afraid
  660. # [23:23] <heycam> <annevk> "WebIDL level 1 is likely to be finished in a few months, with level 2 work ongoing." this would surprise me if actually true
  661. # [23:23] <annevk> aah
  662. # [23:24] <annevk> well, it's been a few months for a few years now :p
  663. # [23:24] <heycam> yes ;)
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  667. # [23:31] <annevk> I kinda thought ES guys were about less magic. But now they're coming up with this concept of a single string to mean either an absolute URLs or module name...
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  677. # [23:59] * GPHemsley responds to a thread from March about <a download>
  678. # Session Close: Wed May 08 00:00:00 2013

The end :)