/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-06-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jun 14 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <GPHemsley> *|*:matches(:hover, :focus)
  4. # [00:00] <GPHemsley> !*:matches(~ ul, ~ol) would probably be the right thing, then
  5. # [00:00] <GPHemsley> ~ ol
  6. # [00:00] <GPHemsley> (are the spaces signficant?)
  7. # [00:00] <GPHemsley> +i
  8. # [00:01] <GPHemsley> oh, hmm
  9. # [00:01] <GPHemsley> namespaces are confusing
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  13. # [00:09] <Hixie> i don't think the :matches() in the spec supports the "#" part i suggested
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  20. # [00:20] <GPHemsley> nope
  21. # [00:20] <GPHemsley> but I'm not sure that it needs to
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  148. # [08:26] <annevk> jgraham: it seems you fixed it!
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  151. # [08:32] <jgraham> annevk: Great!
  152. # [08:33] <annevk> ah you just put a copy of Python there
  153. # [08:33] <annevk> interesting
  154. # [08:33] <jgraham> It's running in its own virtualenv
  155. # [08:34] <jgraham> So it's mostly links to the system python, but with a totally seperate set of libraries
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  223. # [11:03] <gazzwi86> Just wondering where I would submit a proposal for a new html element?
  224. # [11:04] <tomasf> implement it, submit patches and hope nobody notices
  225. # [11:05] <webben> gazzwi86: see the whatwg faq page
  226. # [11:07] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  227. # [11:10] <Ms2ger> I would suggest submitting a use case instead
  228. # [11:10] <miketaylr> form a CG
  229. # [11:10] <miketaylr> (jk)
  230. # [11:10] <gazzwi86> I was going to tell you guys what I'm planning on suggesting adding but my computer is crashing at the moment
  231. # [11:11] <gazzwi86> so unresponsive
  232. # [11:13] <gazzwi86> I was thinking it would be good to add a meta tag for age restricted content. I haven't seen one being used before and figured if it became standard the browsers could better protect younger users from the content they are able to access
  233. # [11:13] <gazzwi86> what do you think?
  234. # [11:14] <jgraham> Tried that, didn't work
  235. # [11:16] <gazzwi86> why?
  236. # [11:16] <gazzwi86> I'm sure that if there were EU legislation to go with it, just like the poorly thought out Cookie policy then it could work
  237. # [11:16] <gazzwi86> It would be somewhat enforced
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  239. # [11:20] * nimbu is now known as divya
  240. # [11:20] <divya> TabAtkins: SOS
  241. # [11:21] <jgraham> Ah, so you believe in souls?
  242. # [11:21] <divya> strangeee question to ask jgraham but only strange if you are asking me
  243. # [11:22] <Ms2ger> Sounds about jgraham-level strangeish
  244. # [11:22] <jgraham> Oh, although wikipedia suggests that primary school lied to me
  245. # [11:22] <jgraham> and SOS doesn't actually stand for anything
  246. # [11:23] <jgraham> So, as you were on the philosophical points
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  249. # [11:25] <divya> OH
  250. # [11:25] <divya> I GET IT NOW
  251. # [11:25] <divya> i was hoping to gain attention of Tab who is sitting a seat away.
  252. # [11:25] <divya> but he is actually revising his talk
  253. # [11:26] <divya> jgraham: i was in oslo but you were not!
  254. # [11:26] <jgraham> I am not usually in oslo!
  255. # [11:26] <Ms2ger> Why not!
  256. # [11:27] <divya> :D
  257. # [11:27] <divya> exactly Ms2ger
  258. # [11:27] <jgraham> Because it would be a long way to commute to Linköping every day?
  259. # [11:28] <divya> :D
  260. # [11:28] <Ms2ger> Oh, you're *there*
  261. # [11:28] <divya> terrible
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  263. # [11:31] <divya> jgraham: Ms2ger i had this view that box shadows are never hardware-accel do you know by any chance this to be true?
  264. # [11:31] <divya> i also dont know how to search for this assertion on the internetz
  265. # [11:31] <Ms2ger> No idea
  266. # [11:32] <divya> oh it is accel in IE
  267. # [11:32] <jgraham> I don't know
  268. # [11:32] <jgraham> It sounds implementation specific
  269. # [11:32] <divya> yes it is ;(
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  276. # [12:27] <gazzwi86> Are there any proposed suggestions on how to resolve the restriction of adult content to minors?
  277. # [12:28] <Ms2ger> I think the usual suggestion is that adults have a trusted relationship with their children
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  282. # [12:40] <gazzwi86> Ms2ger: hmmm… that tends not to satisfy the more netortic of idividuals
  283. # [12:40] <gazzwi86> neurotic*
  284. # [12:41] <gazzwi86> IE uses certificates does it not? Certs. that most people don't bother to apply for
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  346. # [15:12] <reyre_> are WebVTT Lang Objects not supposed to be translated to DOM content ? http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#webvtt-cue-text-dom-construction-rules
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  348. # [15:13] <Ms2ger> "HTMLElement element node with localName "span", and a lang attribute set to the WebVTT Language Object's applicable language. "?
  349. # [15:13] <Ms2ger> Looks like a typo in that table to me
  350. # [15:14] <reyre_> Ms2ger: i'm also wondering if the lang object should have it's own translation not just as a property on another object
  351. # [15:14] <Ms2ger> There's two entries for "WebVTT Class Object"
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  353. # [15:14] <reyre_> ah good eye Ms2ger
  354. # [15:14] * Ms2ger bows
  355. # [15:15] <reyre_> i'll open a bug, thanks :)
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  358. # [15:16] <Ms2ger> Thank you :)
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  366. # [15:29] <darobin> Hixie: heads up that I just imported <template>, which is a fairly large change
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  389. # [16:13] <GPHemsley> I thought ETags were for content grading?
  390. # [16:14] <GPHemsley> s/grading/rating/
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  394. # [16:21] <zewt> etag? that's a cache thing
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  397. # [16:22] <reyre_> any reason why the webvtt pseudo element only allows the matching of a particular number of css selectors?
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  401. # [16:28] <GPHemsley> zewt: Yeah, I just realized. But I could've sworn there was something with a similar name. PICS?
  402. # [16:28] <GPHemsley> yeah, PICS
  403. # [16:28] <GPHemsley> that's what I meant
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  412. # [16:47] <GPHemsley> gazzwi86: PICS already exists http://www.w3.org/PICS/
  413. # [16:47] <GPHemsley> gazzwi86: Though apparently it's been superseded by POWDER: http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/
  414. # [16:47] <GPHemsley> (which has been shuttered, too)
  415. # [16:48] <GPHemsley> which I suppose is to say that it's been tried and failed twice now
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  417. # [16:48] <Ms2ger> PICS was just a way to block the US Congress, no?
  418. # [16:49] <darobin> nicely put
  419. # [16:49] <darobin> GPHemsley: PICS was actually moderately successful. For a while almost everyone used it.
  420. # [16:50] <darobin> then people realised that no serious product was taking it into account...
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  422. # [16:50] <darobin> but it stuck for quite a while because it was in a lot of templates
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  425. # [16:56] <annevk> darobin: you're potentially gonna end up in merge pain
  426. # [16:56] <annevk> darobin: Hixie's gonna do other parser changes first
  427. # [16:56] <darobin> oh, didn't know that
  428. # [16:56] <darobin> annevk: do you know what other changes?
  429. # [16:56] <darobin> I would assume they would be relatively orthogonal
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  431. # [16:56] <darobin> has he started?
  432. # [16:57] <annevk> the way the parser talks about tags and such
  433. # [16:57] <annevk> he commented on the <template> bug
  434. # [16:57] <darobin> ah, so terminology?
  435. # [16:57] <darobin> really?
  436. # [16:57] * darobin looks
  437. # [16:57] <annevk> prolly just the WHATWG one
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  440. # [16:58] <darobin> ah, damn, he commented that right after I started (I had looked at the bug)
  441. # [16:58] <darobin> actually, this might be a good hting
  442. # [16:58] <darobin> *thing
  443. # [16:59] <darobin> annevk: it looks like he hasn't started
  444. # [17:00] <darobin> and applying the change for https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22322 is likely to be easier after incorporating template since it requires the same switches
  445. # [17:00] <darobin> I'll point that out in the bug
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  456. # [17:11] <annevk> darobin: fwiw, parts of Shadow DOM will likely move to DOM once I get to it
  457. # [17:12] <annevk> might wait a bit more with that though
  458. # [17:12] <annevk> seems it's not quite ready yet
  459. # [17:13] <darobin> annevk: yeah, that would make sense
  460. # [17:13] <darobin> though probably not all the spec?
  461. # [17:13] <annevk> no just parts
  462. # [17:13] <darobin> annevk: btw did you see that there's a bit of Templates for DOM, too?
  463. # [17:13] <annevk> it's already in DOM if you mean the host concept
  464. # [17:13] <darobin> no, it's about cloning
  465. # [17:14] <annevk> oh, but cloning is extensible
  466. # [17:14] <darobin> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/templates/index.html#node-clone-additions
  467. # [17:14] <annevk> or do you need a different hook because of the children thing?
  468. # [17:14] <darobin> if you prefer that to go into HTML just lmk
  469. # [17:14] <annevk> oh wow
  470. # [17:14] <darobin> it's certainly HTML specific
  471. # [17:14] <darobin> yeah
  472. # [17:15] <annevk> kinda wish someone would have given feedback to that effect before implementing
  473. # [17:15] <darobin> well, it makes sense relative to the feature
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  475. # [17:15] <darobin> but I'm not sure it's the best place to monkey patch
  476. # [17:16] <annevk> it's okay to monkey patch, but you should tell the host spec you're doing that and where
  477. # [17:16] <annevk> and how
  478. # [17:17] <annevk> surprises are no good
  479. # [17:17] <annevk> but it makes sense
  480. # [17:17] <darobin> yeah, that's why I was surprised I could see a reaction from you :)
  481. # [17:17] <darobin> yeah, you actually can't make it work at all without specifying this
  482. # [17:17] <gazzwi86> GPHemsley: thanks! I'll look into that!
  483. # [17:17] <annevk> I don't really see why they can't use the "cloning steps" extension hook though
  484. # [17:18] <annevk> I guess it doesn't get passed the flag
  485. # [17:18] <annevk> or the original algorithm
  486. # [17:18] <darobin> in general I don't mind monkey patching, but when it gets to "add this step beneath step 27" I'd rather it not stay that way too long; you know it's just going to go wrong at some point
  487. # [17:18] <annevk> meh
  488. # [17:18] <annevk> oh yeah, it ought to be integrated
  489. # [17:18] <annevk> but it should also be coordinated upfront imo
  490. # [17:18] <darobin> annevk: let me look more closely, maybe I can just go ahead and fix that
  491. # [17:19] <annevk> nah it needs to go in, pretty sure
  492. # [17:19] <annevk> someone file a bug I guess, it's sleepytime here
  493. # [17:19] <darobin> annevk: nah, I'll just fix it now — forget about this, I'll add it to HTML and use the proper extension point instead of this
  494. # [17:19] <annevk> so you can't
  495. # [17:20] <annevk> the extension point is not passed any of the details you need
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  497. # [17:20] <darobin> how do you mean?
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  499. # [17:20] <annevk> guess it depends on how you read it
  500. # [17:20] <annevk> oh well, nn
  501. # [17:21] <darobin> I can just saw "at the step in the cloning algo that say blah other applicable specs, do this"
  502. # [17:21] <darobin> nn :)
  503. # [17:21] <darobin> *say
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  505. # [17:23] <jgraham> In general I mind monkey patching
  506. # [17:23] <jgraham> HTML even does it to itself
  507. # [17:23] <jgraham> and I have seen implementors make mistakes for that reason
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  509. # [17:24] <jgraham> (if you consider the seperation of "obsolete but conforming" into a chapter at the end that then patches other APIs to be "monkey patching")
  510. # [17:24] <jgraham> Or just "obsolete"
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  515. # [17:29] <darobin> jgraham: I guess it depends on the type of monkey patching
  516. # [17:29] <darobin> monkey patching algorithms that don't have a well-defined extension point is a problem
  517. # [17:29] <darobin> but other things less so
  518. # [17:29] <jgraham> Well, in general monkey-patching introduces non-locality
  519. # [17:30] <jgraham> Which is generally considered bad for readable code, and I think the same applies to specifications
  520. # [17:31] <darobin> up to a point
  521. # [17:31] <darobin> putting everything in the same spec can also hurt readability
  522. # [17:31] <darobin> it's a hard problem, let's have beer
  523. # [17:33] <Ms2ger> As bz said, the HTML spec is spaghetti code
  524. # [17:40] * Quits: dekiss (~dejan@unaffiliated/dekiss) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  525. # [17:42] <darobin> at more than one level :)
  526. # [17:42] <darobin> the spaghetti are made of spaghetti
  527. # [17:42] <darobin> it's hyperspaghetti
  528. # [17:43] <Ms2ger> Mm
  529. # [17:43] <darobin> which is very sensible if you think about it
  530. # [17:43] <darobin> hmmmm, spaghetti
  531. # [17:43] * Ms2ger would like him some hyperspaghetti
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  533. # [17:43] <Ms2ger> Now I'm hungry
  534. # [17:43] <darobin> yeah, shit I'm hungry now
  535. # [17:43] <darobin> heh
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  538. # [17:43] <Ms2ger> Damn you!
  539. # [17:43] <Ms2ger> And me!
  540. # [17:43] <darobin> I blame the spec, really
  541. # [17:43] <Ms2ger> wfm
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The end :)