/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-07-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 11 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <annevk> Private email thread on licensing is going like this: “We’re listening to you. What was your concern?”
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  5. # [00:01] <hober> i got an email the other day that boiled down to "I don't want to talk about what's in scope for this spec. I want to add something out of scope to this spec."
  6. # [00:02] <Hixie_> heh
  7. # [00:02] <Hixie_> reminds me of the way the w3c keeps saying "you can get involved in improving the w3c! let's have a meeting about discussing how we need to improve!"
  8. # [00:02] <Hixie_> literally been happening for at least half a decade now
  9. # [00:03] <Hixie_> (i keep getting invited to these meetings)
  10. # [00:03] <annevk> They keep scoping them in ways that are not useful
  11. # [00:03] <Hixie_> i've had them scoped all kinds of ways
  12. # [00:03] <Hixie_> including "everything is in scope"
  13. # [00:04] <Hixie_> the fundamental problem is that they disagree with me about what's wrong
  14. # [00:04] <Hixie_> it's the usual "ask the question over and over until you get the answer you want"
  15. # [00:04] <annevk> Sounds like the way the HTML WG works
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  61. # [01:53] <Yuhong> On this matter, one reason I suggest http://www.w3.org/wiki/Evolution be finished is that TimBL is in the TAG.
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  63. # [01:55] <Yuhong> But on DOM3 Events, unfortunately I don't think mutation events are going anywhere as IE9/10 support them but not MutationObserver.
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  68. # [01:59] <Domenic_> (starting over on DOM Core was brilliant; those outdated levels stacked on top of each other were insane.)
  69. # [02:01] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting_: the errors your cited are a known issue and usually go away if you just run "python build/build.py all" a 2nd time
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  95. # [03:12] <GPHemsley> Filed DOM 3 Events spec bug for event order: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22641
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  121. # [04:23] <jpwhiting_> MikeSmith: yep, I'm hitting something different this time, I moved the sources to package it as a debian package, and when I try to build jing-trang's ant can't find apache-ant for some reason
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  124. # [04:27] <GPHemsley> ...and closed as INVALID
  125. # [04:27] * GPHemsley shrugs
  126. # [04:27] <jpwhiting_> http://pastebin.com/DV0Z3FLT
  127. # [04:28] <jpwhiting_> MikeSmith: the issues I was having earlier were because my spec was added to validator/presets.txt but not validator/w3c-presets.txt where it needed to be
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  129. # [04:32] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting_: yeah that bit of complexity is my fault I guess
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  131. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting_: so you're creating a Debian package of the validator? Are you planning to actually get it in the main Debian package repo?
  132. # [04:35] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting_: Maybe the reason you're seeing http://pastebin.com/DV0Z3FLT during the build is that it's ignoring your system CLASSPATH
  133. # [04:36] <Yuhong> MS just fixed document.createElement("th").cellIndex in older versions of IE to conform to the standard in the just released Cumulative Update.
  134. # [04:36] <Yuhong> Old behavior was an address leak.
  135. # [04:36] <jpwhiting_> MikeSmith: my System CLASSPATH?
  136. # [04:36] * jpwhiting_ is new to java, sorry
  137. # [04:36] <Yuhong> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16757#c10
  138. # [04:36] <jpwhiting_> I have JAVA_HOME set, but that's about it
  139. # [04:37] <jpwhiting_> no, not packaging for debian itself, just making a debian package out of validator.nu for a client
  140. # [04:37] <jpwhiting_> to use inside their ubuntu based virtualmachine
  141. # [04:37] <MikeSmith> ok
  142. # [04:37] <jpwhiting_> the weird thing is it works fine when I run it from one path
  143. # [04:38] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting_: so if you look at the jing-trang/ant script, you'll see it feeds -cp to java
  144. # [04:38] <jpwhiting_> but I tar up the original sources gotten with build/build.py checkout && build/build.py dldeps
  145. # [04:38] <jpwhiting_> then untar it when creating the package and do python build/build.py --local build to build it
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  147. # [04:38] <jpwhiting_> ah, I see, /me dives deeper
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  149. # [04:38] <MikeSmith> -cp jing-trang/lib/ant-launcher.jar
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  151. # [04:39] <jpwhiting_> ok, I do have that file, maybe $JING_TRANG_HOME is getting mucked up somehow?
  152. # [04:39] * jpwhiting_ reads build.py again
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  156. # [04:40] <MikeSmith> I guess you could just hack the build script to call "ant" instead of "./ant" there
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  158. # [04:40] <MikeSmith> line 558 of build.py
  159. # [04:41] <jpwhiting_> the difference being that ./ant sets classpath, where my system's ant doesn't?
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  162. # [04:41] <MikeSmith> - runCmd(os.path.join(".", "ant"))
  163. # [04:41] <MikeSmith> + runCmd("ant")
  164. # [04:41] <jpwhiting_> yep, gotcha, /me tries
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  166. # [04:42] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting_: I dunno what that jing-trang/ant script is attempting to do. It's upstream code that we pull into the validator build as a dependency.
  167. # [04:43] * heath is now known as ybit
  168. # [04:43] <jpwhiting_> still it's very weird to me that it works when untarred in one place on my disk, and fails when untarred in another place
  169. # [04:43] <MikeSmith> yeah that is weird
  170. # [04:43] <jpwhiting_> maybe build/build.py checkout sets some paths or something?
  171. # [04:43] <MikeSmith> I don't think it does
  172. # [04:43] <MikeSmith> though not sure
  173. # [04:44] * MikeSmith checks
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  175. # [04:44] <jpwhiting_> my system doesn't know what "ant" is
  176. # [04:44] <MikeSmith> hmm, OK
  177. # [04:45] <jpwhiting_> no ant in $JAVA_HOME/bin either
  178. # [04:45] <jpwhiting_> using openjdk-7-jdk
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  180. # [04:45] <jpwhiting_> one other weird thing I found is that the one checkout of validator.nu that's working has manifest and such in jing-trang/ but the one that doesn't is missing them
  181. # [04:45] <jpwhiting_> does ant create those?
  182. # [04:46] <MikeSmith> no, ant doesn't create those
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  194. # [04:46] <MikeSmith> and you won't find "ant" in $JAVA_HOME/bin normally
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  198. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> so anyway, forget what I said about running "ant" instead
  199. # [04:47] <jpwhiting_> erm, sorry not manifest, I meant modbuild.xml, modules.xml and the build folder
  200. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> yeah, so those are needed
  201. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> and I think they do get created by ant
  202. # [04:48] <Yuhong> Actually, only IE9 is fixed in the July update.
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  206. # [04:49] <jpwhiting_> MikeSmith: even if I set JING_TRANG_HOME to the path where jing-trang is checked out to, then run ,/ant I get the java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.tools.ant.Main
  207. # [04:50] <jpwhiting_> maybe the ant jar is bad?
  208. # [04:50] <Yuhong> Hixie: w() in the DOM Viewer is broken in IE8.
  209. # [04:50] <Hixie_> i think you mean, IE8 is broken
  210. # [04:50] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting_: the ant-launcher.jar and ant.jar binaries are distributed as part of jing-trang, so those are what your java environment should be using for the jing-trang build
  211. # [04:50] <jpwhiting_> yeah, I see them in jing-trang/lib
  212. # [04:51] <Yuhong> I use this a lot for tests.
  213. # [04:51] <MikeSmith> if it's not finding them, then I'd guess it's because your build environment doesn't have $JING_TRANG_HOME set
  214. # [04:52] <Yuhong> For example, I was trying to use http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=1673 to test the latest Cumulative Update to see if the behavior is fixed.
  215. # [04:52] <jpwhiting_> why would it have JING_TRANG_HOME set?
  216. # [04:52] <jpwhiting_> I mean, what sets that?
  217. # [04:52] <jpwhiting_> heh, jing-trang/ant sets it to dirname $0
  218. # [04:53] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting_: yup
  219. # [04:53] <Yuhong> It is fixed for IE9 in the just released cumulative update, BTW. Old behavior is an address leak.
  220. # [04:54] <zewt> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22641 filing bugs on dom events seems like a waste of time, heh
  221. # [04:55] <Yuhong> Unfortunately, as I said before, I can't imagine mutation events going away any time soon, as IE9/10 do not support mutation observers.
  222. # [04:56] <jpwhiting_> MikeSmith: k, I'll figure this out, thanks for the pointers :)
  223. # [04:56] <MikeSmith> k
  224. # [05:03] <jpwhiting_> MikeSmith: hmm, does java not cope well with : in path names maybe?
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  226. # [05:04] * jpwhiting_ is using this from within an obs checkout, so part of the path is home:jwhiting:branches:blah blah
  227. # [05:06] <jpwhiting_> heh, seems so, that's working much better from a path without : in it
  228. # [05:06] <jpwhiting_> phew, problem solved
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  248. # [06:03] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting: good to hear
  249. # [06:04] <MikeSmith> and ":" is the right path separator on Linux
  250. # [06:04] <MikeSmith> for java
  251. # [06:04] <MikeSmith> but on windows it needs to be ";" I think
  252. # [06:07] <zewt> things that need to die: code that uses a variable for platform path separators
  253. # [06:07] <zewt> (do people really not know that / is a valid path separator in windows)
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  322. # [10:35] <JakeA> Do we have a way to get the base url of the page? As in, what relative paths will be resolved against?
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  325. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> JakeA: not in the URL spec?
  326. # [10:41] <JakeA> Not that I can see, new urls have a default base of about:blank
  327. # [10:41] <JakeA> I remember Anne telling me why it didn't default to the base of the current page, but I can't remember
  328. # [10:41] <JakeA> …what it actually was
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  336. # [11:08] <galant> animations for anniversaries on google homepage can't be viewed on mobile phones? Because they are done in canvas..
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  384. # [14:13] <JakeA> I just got a 50k bounce on the mailing list, is anyone able to clear it through?
  385. # [14:13] <JakeA> It's a reply to @getify so it's naturally over 50k
  386. # [14:16] <Ms2ger> You could trim?
  387. # [14:16] <Ms2ger> But I believe Hixie_ moderates
  388. # [14:17] <JakeA> Yeah, I've done a lot of that already, but I'm worried I'll get accused of editing & misrepresenting the original view
  389. # [14:17] <JakeA> most of the content is the original email with replies inline
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  407. # [15:06] <galant> canvas hit regions are supported by older browsers?
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  411. # [15:10] <Ms2ger> They're not supported anywhere
  412. # [15:12] <galant> yeah
  413. # [15:12] <galant> I have no idea how to make canvas drawings responsive to mouse events, if you know some link for reading on this please tell me thanks
  414. # [15:13] <smaug____> you just add mouse event listener and check the coordinates in the event listener?
  415. # [15:14] <JakeA> You can test the x/y position of the click, or absolutely position an a[href] over the hit areas. The latter may be more accessible.
  416. # [15:18] <galant> thanks for ideas
  417. # [15:18] <galant> so Google uses this? :D
  418. # [15:18] <galant> for their animations
  419. # [15:18] <galant> hehe
  420. # [15:18] <galant> Hixie do the Google homepage animations on anniversaries? :DDD
  421. # [15:18] <galant> hehe
  422. # [15:19] <galant> JakeA, that absolutely positioned <a> is best idea and easiest lol it can be done in seconds
  423. # [15:19] <galant> Im not sure about other ideas though never done that
  424. # [15:19] <galant> JakeA, how to test x/y position of the click just curious?
  425. # [15:20] <JakeA> When you add a click listener to the canvas you'll get one of these as an event object https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/MouseEvent
  426. # [15:21] <galant> on older browsers too>?
  427. # [15:21] <JakeA> clientX/Y is what you're looking for
  428. # [15:21] <JakeA> well… certainly everything that supports canvas
  429. # [15:22] <galant> event.clientX is the thing right?
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  431. # [15:22] <galant> yeah this works on every element not just canvas :) nice
  432. # [15:24] <galant> guys
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  434. # [15:25] <galant> if I create some kind of interface for some API as a side effect of working on my projects do you want me to give it to you you can them implement such things in the APIs you make if you decide too, so others can have use of my work too
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  437. # [15:35] <JakeA> you should make your code available on github for people. If it turns out to be super-popular and could be done much faster natively, it might make it into the spec
  438. # [15:35] <JakeA> this happened with selector matching in jQuery etc
  439. # [15:35] <JakeA> became querySelectorAll in the spec
  440. # [15:39] <galant> ok JakeA thanks
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  474. # [16:28] <MikeSmith> ...and Hallvord announces
  475. # [16:29] <MikeSmith> and post-mortems
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  477. # [16:34] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Opera lost him first.
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  479. # [16:35] <Ms2ger> I did see him pop up in bugzilla a lot lately
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  483. # [16:40] <jgraham> pointer?
  484. # [16:41] <Ms2ger> His blog
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  486. # [16:41] <gsnedders> http://my.opera.com/hallvors/blog/goodbye
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  492. # [16:59] <jgraham> Interesting post mortem. Things to agree with and things to disagree with.
  493. # [17:11] <Ms2ger> Someone should count how many former Operians we hired now
  494. # [17:11] <Ms2ger> / will hire
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  499. # [17:13] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Going how far back? :P
  500. # [17:14] <Ms2ger> Last year or so?
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  503. # [17:16] <gsnedders> I can only think of four off-hand.
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  535. # [18:10] <Hixie_> JakeA: you still need help with moderation?
  536. # [18:12] <JakeA> nah, I cut it down & went plain text
  537. # [18:12] <JakeA> cheers
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  559. # [19:10] <Ms2ger> Github slow for anyone else?
  560. # [19:14] <jgraham> I'm not getting spammed so I assume it isn't down
  561. # [19:14] <jgraham> Website doesn't seem slower than normal
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  563. # [19:16] <jgraham> Fetching worked OK
  564. # [19:16] <jgraham> So, no?
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  572. # [19:29] <esprehn> annevk: is there a reason you removed document.body from DOM core?
  573. # [19:29] <esprehn> it's used by every application ever... seems weird
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  575. # [19:30] <esprehn> also document.title which is used by tons of apps
  576. # [19:36] <gsnedders> esprehn: Removed? Were they ever added? They've always been in HTML 5.
  577. # [19:37] <esprehn> oh I see, DOM Core just defines a subset of the Document interface :/
  578. # [19:37] <esprehn> yeah this is missing lots of stuff, that should have tipped me off :)
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  581. # [19:52] <esprehn> Hixie_: steps 3 and 4 of the document.body setter algorithm are backwards
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  584. # [19:58] <Hixie_> esprehn: file a bug
  585. # [19:58] <Hixie_> there's a tool on the page to do so :-)
  586. # [19:59] <annevk> esprehn: euhm wut
  587. # [19:59] <esprehn> annevk: nothing I was just confused
  588. # [19:59] <annevk> ah I see
  589. # [19:59] <Hixie_> esprehn: (but why do you think they're backwards?)
  590. # [20:00] <annevk> yeah, the separation is not exactly ideal, but I don't think we've completely figured out yet whether or not to merge all document objects so we'll see I guess
  591. # [20:00] <Hixie_> esprehn: (they're mutually exclusive)
  592. # [20:00] <esprehn> Hixie_: step 4 null checks the documentElement, step 3 calls replaceChild on it
  593. # [20:00] <Hixie_> esprehn: step 3 can't get to the replaceChild call unless documentElement has a child
  594. # [20:01] <esprehn> ah yeah
  595. # [20:01] <esprehn> still seems weird to do that step before looking for a missing documentElement
  596. # [20:02] <Hixie_> *shrug*
  597. # [20:02] <esprehn> yeah, I won't file a bug
  598. # [20:03] <esprehn> btw WebKit's behavior here is all kinds of fun. document.body returns the first <body> unless there's a <frameset> in which case we return that
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  600. # [20:04] <Hixie_> that's per spec
  601. # [20:04] <Hixie_> more or less
  602. # [20:04] <esprehn> hmm?
  603. # [20:04] <Hixie_> spec says "the first child of the html element that is either a body element or a frameset element"
  604. # [20:05] <esprehn> the spec doesn't say <html><body><frameset></html> and document.body should return <frameset> right?
  605. # [20:05] <esprehn> the spec says pick the first one you see
  606. # [20:06] <Hixie_> yeah, it's not quite webkit's behaviour
  607. # [20:06] <Hixie_> hence the "more or less"
  608. # [20:06] <esprehn> webkit also throws HierarchyRequestError if you do document.body = <frameset>
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  610. # [20:07] <jgraham> Sounds like you have some bugs to fix ;)
  611. # [20:09] <esprehn> yeah
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  630. # [20:36] <annevk> Hixie_: so how stable is the canvas in worker stuff?
  631. # [20:36] <annevk> Hixie_: given http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/CanvasInWorkers it might be not very stable?
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  636. # [20:41] <Ms2ger> annevk, nobody's implemented it, so, unstable :)
  637. # [20:41] <annevk> Ms2ger: so we're thinking about it but if there's major outstanding feedback...
  638. # [20:41] <tantek> Ms2ger - I like your reasoning :)
  639. # [20:41] <annevk> Ms2ger: but if there's no major outstanding feedback, it'd be more attractive
  640. # [20:42] <Ms2ger> That page was last edited 1 March
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  642. # [20:44] <annevk> so yeah
  643. # [20:44] <annevk> unstable
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  645. # [20:44] <Ms2ger> Anyway, make Hixie_ prioritize any feedback
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  647. # [20:47] <annevk> Hixie_: http://cdn.meme.li/instances/400x/39616780.jpg
  648. # [20:48] <tantek> LOL
  649. # [20:49] <zcorpan> sup guys
  650. # [20:52] <annevk> sup zcorpan
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  652. # [20:52] <zcorpan> having vacation :-)
  653. # [20:52] <Ms2ger> Did we hire zcorpan already?
  654. # [20:53] <zcorpan> is that a website?
  655. # [20:57] <Ms2ger> Arewemployingzcorpanyet.com
  656. # [20:58] <annevk> zcorpan: sounds good :)
  657. # [21:00] <zcorpan> 402 Payment Required
  658. # [21:01] <Ms2ger> I'm sure we can arrange something
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  684. # [21:33] <annevk5> Hixie_: so "exposed to JavaScript"... where is defined that Event is exposed to workers?
  685. # [21:33] * annevk5 is now known as annevk_
  686. # [21:33] <annevk_> Hixie_: or WebSocket?
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  707. # [21:34] <annevk_> Hixie_: I think I'd prefer it if you changed the defaults
  708. # [21:34] <annevk_> Hixie_: say that everything is exposed to JavaScript regardless of global
  709. # [21:34] <annevk_> unless stated otherwise
  710. # [21:34] <annevk_> Hixie_: and then I'll have DOM and such say otherwise
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  715. # [21:39] <Hixie_> annevk: looked around for feedback on canvas and workers, but didn't see any
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  717. # [21:39] <Hixie_> annevk_: do you have a link to the e-mail or bug in question?
  718. # [21:39] <Hixie_> annevk_: we should say that events and websocket are exposed.
  719. # [21:39] <Hixie_> annevk_: in general, the default is not to expose, i think
  720. # [21:40] <Hixie_> annevk_: since most things involve the dom
  721. # [21:40] <annevk_> really?
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  723. # [21:41] <annevk_> I think if you exclude Node and its descendants most things are non-DOM
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  726. # [21:42] <annevk_> there's http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Jan/thread.html#msg18
  727. # [21:42] <Hixie_> i responded in that thread
  728. # [21:43] <annevk_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Mar/0160.html
  729. # [21:43] <annevk_> (minor)
  730. # [21:43] <Hixie_> yeah, that's the issue of workers not listing all the things yet
  731. # [21:44] <annevk_> I wonder why http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/CanvasInWorkers is not mentioned on the list
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  737. # [21:44] <annevk_> Maybe because Gregg left Google?
  738. # [21:46] <annevk_> Hixie_: in my experience pretty much any new API we create we want in workers
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  745. # [21:48] <jsbell> Has the "should APIs in Workers be sync or async?" debate recurred since Futures arrived?
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  747. # [21:49] <Hixie_> apis in workers can be both
  748. # [21:49] <annevk_> smaug____: should we remove [NoInterfaceObject] from XMLHttpRequestEventTarget?
  749. # [21:50] <annevk_> jsbell: http://infrequently.org/2013/05/the-case-against-synchronous-worker-apis-2/ is there
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  751. # [21:50] <annevk_> jsbell: when we discussed this at Mozilla, opinions were split
  752. # [21:50] <annevk_> jsbell: also, promises
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  772. # [22:24] <annevk_> Hixie_: so Window, Node and descendants, bits of Navigator-related interfaces, anything else not going into Worker?
  773. # [22:25] <annevk_> Hmm, NodeList, HTMLCollection, DOMTokenList
  774. # [22:25] <Ms2ger> Everything that touches nodes? :)
  775. # [22:25] <Hixie_> there's a ton of them
  776. # [22:25] <Hixie_> "Node and descendants" alone is a list longer than my arm
  777. # [22:25] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  778. # [22:25] <Ms2ger> webperf?
  779. # [22:26] <Hixie_> we shouldn't enable things in workers without carefully thinking about it
  780. # [22:29] <annevk_> our current list is https://etherpad.mozilla.org/WorkerThreadAPIs
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  782. # [22:33] <jsbell> annevk: damnit, I typed Promises then edited it to Futures. Get with the program, brain!
  783. # [22:33] <annevk_> Hixie_: I think I'll just go and list for each interface if they're exposed in both environments
  784. # [22:35] <annevk_> Hixie_: although for that having "Exposed to document and worker environments" and such as shorthands would be useful
  785. # [22:35] * annevk_ files a bug with that idea
  786. # [22:36] * annevk_ is now known as annevk
  787. # [22:37] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22646
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  797. # [22:57] <Hixie_> you want a shorthand for a five-word phrase that says two things? :-)
  798. # [22:58] <annevk> Hixie_: basically below each IDL block I'd be able to say x, y, or z
  799. # [22:59] <annevk> Hixie_: makes it somewhat clearer what the worker situation is for everyone and doesn't involve 3 cross-references
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  801. # [23:01] <Hixie_> i don't understand
  802. # [23:01] <Hixie_> what do you think you have to say today?
  803. # [23:02] <annevk> So I define [Constructor] interface Foo {};
  804. # [23:02] <annevk> I expect I have to say somewhere it works in both workers and documents
  805. # [23:02] <annevk> or just in documents
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  807. # [23:03] <annevk> I'm also running into minor issues with e.g. XMLHttpRequest
  808. # [23:03] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
  809. # [23:03] <Hixie_> oh you want to change "The SharedWorkerGlobalScope interface must only be exposed to JavaScript if the JavaScript global environment is a shared worker environment." to something shorter?
  810. # [23:03] <Ms2ger> Anyone got interesting things to test for document.images?
  811. # [23:03] <annevk> Hixie_: yes
  812. # [23:03] <Hixie_> we could just have [Exposed=Worker], [Exposed=Window] (default), [Exposed=Window,Worker]
  813. # [23:04] <annevk> (The issue I'm running into is how to deal with Document appearing in the IDL, and HTMLFormElement appearing in FormData's IDL.)
  814. # [23:04] <Hixie_> heycam: ^
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  816. # [23:04] <Hixie_> annevk: how do browsers deal with it?
  817. # [23:04] <annevk> Hixie_: they just deal
  818. # [23:04] <annevk> "prose"
  819. # [23:04] <annevk> (which I've added for now)
  820. # [23:05] * heycam acks, will think when I'm off the phone
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  823. # [23:05] <Ms2ger> Yeah, the hard part is when only part of an interface is exposed to workers
  824. # [23:06] <annevk> could maybe make [Exposed] work everywhere somehow?
  825. # [23:06] <annevk> send(([Exposed=Window] Document or DOMString) data)
  826. # [23:07] <Ms2ger> [[Exposed=Window]Constructor...?
  827. # [23:07] <annevk> readonly attribute ([Exposed=Window] Document or null) responseXML
  828. # [23:07] <Hixie_> or just have two different IDLs
  829. # [23:07] <annevk> Ms2ger: yeah something like that
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  831. # [23:07] <annevk> Hixie_: like you do for navigator?
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  833. # [23:08] <annevk> seems kinda overkill for most of XHR, although I guess we could make that work in some way
  834. # [23:08] <Ms2ger> Navigator actually is called WindowNavigator in workers
  835. # [23:10] <annevk> I know
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  841. # [23:20] <Hixie_> annevk: yeah
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  843. # [23:22] <annevk> Hixie_: I guess if we have [Exposed] we could name it the same even
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  845. # [23:23] <annevk> but still, kinda bloaty
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  849. # [23:25] <Hixie_> Ms2ger: i assume you mean WorkerNavigator
  850. # [23:25] <Hixie_> we could use the same name, just need some prose to say which one you mean
  851. # [23:25] <Ms2ger> Er, yes
  852. # [23:25] <Ms2ger> I can't speel
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  865. # [23:43] <heycam> how many things do we have in the middle of an interface that we want to turn off in workers?
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  867. # [23:45] <annevk> heycam: FormData, XMLHttpRequest, cannot really think of something else
  868. # [23:45] <heycam> but, members of an interface? or are these interface members which mention those types?
  869. # [23:46] <annevk> It might be good to not expose responseXML in Workers
  870. # [23:46] * heycam wonders how bloating it would be to put [Exposed=…] on those interface members, if there are only a couple of them
  871. # [23:46] <annevk> I think responseType = "document" we deal with in prose
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  873. # [23:46] <annevk> heycam: ah yeah, we could just duplicate definitions I suppose
  874. # [23:46] <heycam> ah, so the issue I guess is that we mention Document in the return type?
  875. # [23:47] <annevk> one send() for Window and one for Worker
  876. # [23:47] <heycam> I guess it's not technically a problem
  877. # [23:47] <annevk> heycam: that's the issue
  878. # [23:47] <heycam> as long as prose never returns a Document object
  879. # [23:47] <annevk> heycam: I'd prefer not to expose responseXML at all, but e.g. for FormData I'd want a constructor in workers that doesn't take an argument
  880. # [23:48] * Quits: enr (~enr@static-88.131.87.100.addr.tdcsong.se) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  881. # [23:48] <heycam> I see
  882. # [23:48] <annevk> heycam: we could maybe have some wording around interfaces not existing in workers?
  883. # [23:48] <annevk> heycam: e.g. Document doesn't exist, therefore (Document or DOMString) ends up meaning DOMString
  884. # [23:48] * Quits: jernoble_ (~jernoble@17.245.110.164) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  885. # [23:48] <annevk> and Document? ends up meaning null
  886. # [23:49] <heycam> maybe
  887. # [23:49] <annevk> and optional HTMLFormElement x means no argument?
  888. # [23:49] <annevk> dunno
  889. # [23:49] <heycam> would it result in members disappearing altogether?
  890. # [23:49] <heycam> might be a bit nonobvious
  891. # [23:49] <annevk> seems somewhat more complicated
  892. # [23:49] <heycam> looking at the idl
  893. # [23:49] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.212.155.127)
  894. # [23:50] <annevk> saying Constructor is X in Window and Y in Worker seems easier
  895. # [23:50] <heycam> yeah
  896. # [23:50] <annevk> and responseXML is only in Window, and send() is X in Window and Y in Worker
  897. # [23:50] <heycam> in prose you mean?
  898. # [23:50] <annevk> no with the flag
  899. # [23:50] <heycam> ah
  900. # [23:50] <annevk> well or prose
  901. # [23:50] <heycam> [[Exposed=…][Constructor(…)] looks funny to me :)
  902. # [23:51] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  903. # [23:51] <annevk> needs moar ]
  904. # [23:51] <annevk> or less [ I guess
  905. # [23:52] * heycam hopes to avoid mentioning "workers" in Web IDL itself
  906. # [23:53] <heycam> ok, time for coffee
  907. # [23:53] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
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  909. # [23:56] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  915. # Session Close: Fri Jul 12 00:00:01 2013

The end :)