/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-08-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Aug 22 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:05] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: why do we need the order for @mixin?
  4. # [00:06] <TabAtkins> Because @mixin is basically a variable holding declarations, so it matters whether *other* declarations appeared before or after it.
  5. # [00:07] <gsnedders> Woah. What's happened to Bugzilla!?
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  9. # [00:10] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: ok. sleep time now. take it on the list :-)
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  44. # [01:30] <Hixie_> esprehn: is it the same task source as the load event?
  45. # [01:30] <Hixie_> jwalden: wow, that _is_ behind on scrollback. :-P We went with "is familiar with" for now.
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  47. # [01:32] <jwalden> :-)
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  101. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> I see that the locus of EME debate seems to have now shifted away from W3C forums and on to blink-dev
  102. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> that's progress
  103. # [02:43] <MikeSmith> in other news, now that the HTML spec requires the title element to have non-whitespace content, we'll need to choose some stock value for the title attribute to use in the minimal boilerplate HTML document in the text-field input feature of the validator
  104. # [02:43] <MikeSmith> anybody have suggestions?
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  108. # [02:45] <jamesr__> anyone here familiar with the charset attribute on Document?
  109. # [02:45] <jamesr__> it's in blink with a comment "// IE extensions" as an attribute DOMString
  110. # [02:45] <jamesr__> notable, not readonly
  111. # [02:46] <jamesr__> we appear to "support" (for some definition of that word) writing a value to the attribute
  112. # [02:46] <jamesr__> i don't know what it actually does
  113. # [02:46] <jamesr__> i can't find references on MDN, but maybe i just suck at it
  114. # [02:48] <jamesr__> mozilla doesn't appear to have it (according to http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/interfaces/core/nsIDOMDocument.idl)
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  118. # [02:55] <jamesr__> in blink they date back from when the property was defined in a file called khtml/ecma/kjs_dom.cpp
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  124. # [03:04] <esprehn> Hixie_: it's not clear, it puts it in the DOM Manipulation Task Source, but the onload is just handled by the "delays the load event" logic
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  126. # [03:04] <esprehn> Hixie_: Do things in the DOM Manipulation Task Source delays the load event ?
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  129. # [03:08] <esprehn> I see, they are the same task source
  130. # [03:08] <esprehn> it'd be nice if the spec made this more clear, there's just a sentence in each section that mentions the task source
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  132. # [03:10] <esprehn> Hixie_: it's unfortunate that autofocus is speced like this, it means there has to be a recalculate style before the onload event can fire, since we need to know the style to decide if something is focusable.
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  135. # [03:14] <esprehn> I suppose developers should listen for DOMContentLoaded instead since onload is doomed to slowness
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  182. # [05:32] <MikeSmith> damn can you devs at google please quit using the term "drive-by web" already
  183. # [05:32] <MikeSmith> I don't see any signs that anybody else is buying into that term
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  208. # [06:25] <matjas> MikeSmith: how about <title>Test</title>?
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  210. # [06:26] <MikeSmith> matjas: sounds good
  211. # [06:26] <MikeSmith> I will make it so
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  216. # [06:35] <MikeSmith> matjas: pushed https://bitbucket.org/validator/validator/commits/4f4c6243d2da0b596304c830d9c642802c4d15cb
  217. # [06:35] <MikeSmith> thanks
  218. # [06:36] <matjas> MikeSmith: yay! good point about the other bugzilla tracker btw, i had forgotten about it
  219. # [06:38] <MikeSmith> matjas: yeah, until hsivonen has time to deal with load issues for the bugzilla.validator.nu server, that's probably the best place
  220. # [06:39] <MikeSmith> matjas: btw, about table@sortable, nobody implements that yet right?
  221. # [06:39] <MikeSmith> are there any polyfills for it yet?
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  223. # [06:40] <MikeSmith> and about <data> it's implemented in the validator sources but not yet pushed to http://html5.validator.nu/ or http://validator.nu/ yet
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  227. # [06:49] <matjas> MikeSmith: i don't think so, no. But note that it also errors on <data> in that context
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  229. # [06:52] <MikeSmith> matjas: the <data> part should work at least at http://validator.w3.org/nu/ (which is running the current sources from the repo)
  230. # [06:56] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: <title>Page Title Here &mdash; Site Title Here</title> maybe?
  231. # [06:56] <Hixie_> esprehn: hm, it wasn't my intent to make that bad, but let me look...
  232. # [06:57] <MikeSmith> Hixie_: that'd work too I guess
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  234. # [06:58] <Hixie_> esprehn: hm, i guess if you're so quick to finish loading the doc that you can fire 'load' almost immediately, you could end up with it sitting behind the many tasks that want to resolve style to figure out what can be focused
  235. # [06:58] <Hixie_> esprehn: note that DOMContentLoaded is on the same task source, so it would also be delayed
  236. # [06:59] <Hixie_> esprehn: also, technically, you are already required to resolve style before firing 'load' since you (per spec, anyway) are supposed to render between each task
  237. # [06:59] <Hixie_> esprehn: so you'd resolve style and layout and render between the parser task that stopped parsing, and the DOMContentLoaded/load tasks
  238. # [07:01] <esprehn> Hixie_: that's definitely not how browsers work, we're not going to resolve style or layout between tasks
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  240. # [07:02] <Hixie_> esprehn: yeah, well, so long as it _looks_ like you do :-)
  241. # [07:02] <Hixie_> esprehn: for the autofocus thing, i can use another task source
  242. # [07:03] <Hixie_> not sure which exactly
  243. # [07:03] <Hixie_> user interaction task source maybe
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  245. # [07:03] <esprehn> Hixie_: The sad thing is if you had <input autofocus> and then onload = function() { doSomethingThatInvalidatesStyle(); } the current spec means we calculate the style twice
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  247. # [07:04] <Hixie_> oh i'm convinced of the badness here, don't worry
  248. # [07:04] <esprehn> :)
  249. # [07:05] <Hixie_> interesting, there is _some_ precedence for using the user interaction task source for non-user interaction tasks
  250. # [07:05] <Hixie_> calling input.select() does it
  251. # [07:05] <Hixie_> i guess that makes sense
  252. # [07:05] <esprehn> webkit and (old) opera both do autofocus inside "layout"
  253. # [07:06] <esprehn> ex. appendChild(input with autofocus); input.offsetTop; // focus happened inside this
  254. # [07:06] <Hixie_> woah
  255. # [07:06] <Hixie_> that's... special
  256. # [07:06] <esprehn> Firefox appears buggy, it frequently seems to not do autofocus at all
  257. # [07:06] <Hixie_> well, you're allowed to not focus
  258. # [07:07] <Hixie_> so you can get a synchronous 'focus' event during the call to offsetTop?
  259. # [07:07] <esprehn> yes
  260. # [07:07] <Hixie_> that's definitely pretty special
  261. # [07:07] <esprehn> webkit/blink and old opera all do it
  262. # [07:08] <esprehn> autofocus is handled at the time when the render tree is constructed
  263. # [07:08] <Hixie_> what happens if the dom is manipulated as this happens?
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  265. # [07:08] <esprehn> same thing as mutation events
  266. # [07:08] <Hixie_> _mutation events_ happen during layout?!
  267. # [07:09] <esprehn> oh no :)
  268. # [07:11] <Hixie_> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2470
  269. # [07:11] <Hixie_> i don't understand why chrome can't find the node
  270. # [07:11] <Hixie_> does it calculate layout before running inline <script>?
  271. # [07:11] <Hixie_> does querySelector() calculate layout?
  272. # [07:12] <Hixie_> (change autofocus to autofocusx and it works)
  273. # [07:12] <esprehn> offsetTop calculates style (1) and then does layout (2), in between those two steps we fire the focus event handler
  274. # [07:12] <Hixie_> so if the focus handler moves the node in the DOM, the layout is what? using the old cascade?
  275. # [07:12] <Hixie_> but the new location?
  276. # [07:13] <esprehn> using the new location
  277. # [07:13] <Hixie_> but what style?
  278. # [07:13] <esprehn> focus causes another recalc style, so you end up with recalc style (1) -> focus event -> recalc style (2) -> layout -> return offset value
  279. # [07:14] <Hixie_> oh you check if the event changed things, and start over if it did?
  280. # [07:14] <esprehn> yup
  281. # [07:14] <Hixie_> what if the focus event added a new element with an autofocus attribute?
  282. # [07:14] <esprehn> that's why I was talking about mutation events
  283. # [07:15] <esprehn> I think we'll do it all over again, if you continued adding autofocus things we'll hang
  284. # [07:15] <Hixie_> i can't get chrome to operate as you describe. it seems to evaluate style earlier than when i call offsetTop.
  285. # [07:16] <esprehn> yeah, right now we do it inside the parser...
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  287. # [07:16] <esprehn> I'm working on fixing that
  288. # [07:16] <esprehn> autofocus happens the second the parser inserts the child right now, there's no "posting a task"
  289. # [07:16] <Hixie_> wow, autofocus right now does a synchronous during-parse style recalc and layout? :-)
  290. # [07:16] <esprehn> no layout :)
  291. # [07:16] <Hixie_> well, still
  292. # [07:16] <Hixie_> wow
  293. # [07:17] <Hixie_> ok
  294. # [07:17] <Hixie_> well anyway
  295. # [07:17] <esprehn> blink and webkit right now calculate the style of every element as the parser inserts them
  296. # [07:17] <Hixie_> i suggest just doing it on a task
  297. # [07:17] <Hixie_> a task that's on the same task source as click events, etc
  298. # [07:17] <Hixie_> since you can't process those without a layout either
  299. # [07:19] <esprehn> yeah, I'll look into if we can do that
  300. # [07:19] <Hixie_> k, i'll update the spec accordingly. keep me posted.
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  302. # [07:23] <esprehn> Hixie_: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2471
  303. # [07:24] <Hixie_> ah, i see
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  305. # [07:27] <hsivonen> whoa. Mark Pilgrim spotted on blink-dev
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  320. # [08:11] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: EME discussions bring out the best
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  337. # [09:29] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: about validation of role values with multiple tokens, I went ahead and pushed the code to the repo
  338. # [09:30] <MikeSmith> I'll send you the patches by e-mail for sanity checking when you ahve time
  339. # [09:30] <MikeSmith> for now, http://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http://w3c-test.org/vnu/syntax/relaxng/tests/html/attributes/role/001.notvalid.html
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  365. # [10:41] <Ms2ger> Seagull umlaut?
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  367. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> wha?
  368. # [10:46] <Ms2ger> https://twitter.com/hsivonen/status/370241051182637056
  369. # [10:49] <MikeSmith> {:
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  372. # [10:51] <MikeSmith> I like the mustachioed umlaut }:
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  375. # [10:57] <annevk> I wonder if there's other bad features we should block inside a sandboxed <iframe>
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  391. # [11:18] <annevk> GPHemsley: yt?
  392. # [11:23] <annevk> Updated my zip fragments gist: https://gist.github.com/annevk/6295844
  393. # [11:24] <annevk> jamesr__: yo, .charset should be removed
  394. # [11:24] <annevk> jamesr__: we considered it for DOM and decided the web could most likely do without it
  395. # [11:24] <annevk> jamesr__: if that's not true... let us know
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  398. # [11:40] <zcorpan> matjas: what license do you have on your contribution to v.nu, "<title>Test</title>" ?
  399. # [11:41] <matjas> zcorpan: hah, WTFPL
  400. # [11:42] <matjas> MikeSmith: while you’re at it, maybe you could review my pull request? https://bitbucket.org/validator/validator/pull-request/4/use-a-monospaced-font-for-some-form-fields
  401. # [11:42] <zcorpan> matjas: k :-)
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  407. # [11:51] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: the role="" checking looks nice. (haven't QAed it though, just looked at your link)
  408. # [11:52] <matjas> MikeSmith: \o/ thanks
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  410. # [11:52] <MikeSmith> matjas: yup (sorry I had forgot about & thinks for reminding me)
  411. # [11:53] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: cool
  412. # [11:55] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: can you point to the diff that implements the role filter?
  413. # [11:55] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: sure gimme a minute
  414. # [11:55] <MikeSmith> it's mostly new code
  415. # [11:56] <MikeSmith> new files
  416. # [11:56] <MikeSmith> https://bitbucket.org/validator/util/commits/859eabdaa10ad477ff55666b22ce1bb0ce9bcafe
  417. # [11:56] <MikeSmith> that's the first part
  418. # [11:57] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: main part of interest is https://bitbucket.org/validator/util/commits/859eabdaa10ad477ff55666b22ce1bb0ce9bcafe#Lsrc/nu/validator/xml/roleattributes/RoleAttributeFilteringContentHandlerWrapper.javaT178
  419. # [11:59] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: code for integration into the servlet is simple https://bitbucket.org/validator/validator/commits/edb7fe0890f24ee764481e90db771d6f98af2e07
  420. # [11:59] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: thx
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  422. # [12:15] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: LGTM. didn't find any bugs from testing a few things ad hoc :-)
  423. # [12:15] <MikeSmith> super
  424. # [12:15] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: thanks for taking time to check it
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  448. # [14:16] <annevk> idna-update keeps blocking my emails...
  449. # [14:16] <annevk> oh well, they'll get to www-tag
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  452. # [14:18] <SimonSapin> annevk: did they black-list you? ;)
  453. # [14:19] <annevk> too many email addresses or some such
  454. # [14:19] <annevk> I think someone actually white-listed me because I couldn't post to the list at all before and wasn't interested in subscribing
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  456. # [14:20] <annevk> SimonSapin: what does Servo do for IDNA?
  457. # [14:21] <SimonSapin> haha
  458. # [14:21] <SimonSapin> is this a real question?
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  461. # [14:23] <jgraham> Sero priorities: a) Implement getElementById, b) Implement a whole web browser c) Implement IDNA
  462. # [14:23] <jgraham> *Servo
  463. # [14:23] <annevk> SimonSapin: well, since it has URL processing...
  464. # [14:24] <SimonSapin> I would be surprised if it’s supported at all
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  466. # [14:24] <SimonSapin> right now HTTP is disabled because of recent changes in Rust’s IO
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  485. # [15:01] <gsnedders> Servo: the web browser without HTTP support.
  486. # [15:02] <SimonSapin> who needs HTTP anyway
  487. # [15:02] <gsnedders> I hear SPDY is the future.
  488. # [15:03] <Ms2ger> HTTPbis
  489. # [15:03] <jgraham> Have to start with HTTP/0.9 only
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  491. # [15:05] <gsnedders> jgraham: But then you also need to start off with content-type sniffing.
  492. # [15:06] <jgraham> gsnedders: Of course! But everyone knows that you implement specs one at a time in order and get full conformance to older specs before starting on newer ones.
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  494. # [15:06] <jgraham> I particularly look forward to the HTML+ support
  495. # [15:08] <gsnedders> Personally I'm just waiting for HTML 3.0, so I can then file bugs to remove it. Because that's my hobby.
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  500. # [15:17] <GPHemsley> annevk: Here now
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  532. # [16:47] <annevk> GPHemsley: so the situation is this...
  533. # [16:48] <annevk> GPHemsley: we're gonna have to do some sniffing at the Fetch level
  534. # [16:48] <annevk> GPHemsley: to determine if the response is a ZIP thingie
  535. # [16:48] <annevk> GPHemsley: https://gist.github.com/annevk/6295844 has a high-level sketch of this feature
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  537. # [16:49] <annevk> Hmm, HTTP... gotta spec that too someday
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  542. # [16:59] <GPHemsley> annevk: Alright; one of the problems I ran into with ZIP was that a lot of various office suite file formats use it as a basis.
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  544. # [17:00] <GPHemsley> annevk: What do you need me to do?
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  546. # [17:00] <GPHemsley> Ms2ger: Did you ever implement the attribute sorting in anolis?
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  548. # [17:01] <annevk> GPHemsley: I'd like you to think about how that makes sense architecturally or if we just need to accept sniffing at various layers...
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  550. # [17:04] <GPHemsley> annevk: Is the old zip: proposal still in the running, or are you committed to media fragments?
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  552. # [17:08] <GPHemsley> annevk: Also, doesn't fragment evaluation occur after the resource is loaded?
  553. # [17:08] <Ms2ger> GPHemsley, no, don't think so
  554. # [17:08] <annevk> I'm pretty sure nested URL schemes is not going to be a thing.
  555. # [17:09] <GPHemsley> annevk: Thus, load resource -> sniff type -> evaluate fragment -> navigate to fragment location
  556. # [17:09] <annevk> GPHemsley: at which point you might "load" a subresource and sniff type again
  557. # [17:10] <GPHemsley> annevk: Sgtm; is that a problem?
  558. # [17:10] <annevk> Normally fetch returns a resource which is sniffed. Now fetch retrieves a resource, sniffs it, and returns a subresource.
  559. # [17:11] <GPHemsley> That's the reality of the situation. I'm not sure you can get around it.
  560. # [17:11] <annevk> This changes where sniffing happens. It also changes where certain fragments are handled.
  561. # [17:11] <GPHemsley> You are indeed loading two different resources.
  562. # [17:11] <annevk> Yeah, that was my conclusion too. Was wondering whether there was another way.
  563. # [17:12] <GPHemsley> There may be, but I'm not seeing any problem with the obvious way.
  564. # [17:13] <GPHemsley> Other than the one raised by sicking about the nested fragments
  565. # [17:13] <GPHemsley> but that's not necessarily part of the network stack
  566. # [17:13] <GPHemsley> more a URL syntax issue
  567. # [17:14] <GPHemsley> what if you had #path=#anchor ?
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  569. # [17:15] <GPHemsley> as in <a href="#path=subdir/file.html#subheader">
  570. # [17:16] <GPHemsley> or perhaps use a different symbol or percent-encoding for the embedded fragment ID
  571. # [17:16] <GPHemsley> -ID
  572. # [17:16] <GPHemsley> hmm
  573. # [17:16] <GPHemsley> that part needs more thought
  574. # [17:16] <GPHemsley> but I think the sniffing issue is fine
  575. # [17:16] <annevk> #path=x&id=test exists. However, it's not entirely clear to me we want to support it in browsing contexts just yet. There's more complication there.
  576. # [17:17] <GPHemsley> one step at a time, I suppose
  577. # [17:17] <annevk> Just resource loads should be sufficient for the use cases that have come up thus far.
  578. # [17:17] <GPHemsley> but is there a reason you can't do file.zip/subdir/file.html ?
  579. # [17:17] <GPHemsley> or will that not work on the server side?
  580. # [17:18] <annevk> GPHemsley: The request to the server will be for /file.zip/subdir/file.html ...
  581. # [17:18] <GPHemsley> right
  582. # [17:18] <GPHemsley> hmm
  583. # [17:19] <GPHemsley> oh well
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  585. # [17:20] <GPHemsley> but yeah, load resource -> sniff type -> evaluate fragment -> load subresource from path -> sniff type -> display
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  587. # [17:21] <GPHemsley> it's probably OK to treat resources inside ZIPs as sandboxed in such a way that there is decreased functionality
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  589. # [17:21] <SimonSapin> GPHemsley: is this recursive? :]
  590. # [17:21] <SimonSapin> a zip in zip
  591. # [17:22] <GPHemsley> SimonSapin: That's a good question
  592. # [17:22] <SimonSapin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_bomb
  593. # [17:22] <GPHemsley> and it probably falls into the same boat as the regular (HTML) page fragments
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  596. # [17:23] <annevk> SimonSapin: I don't think we'll support recursion
  597. # [17:24] <GPHemsley> What about file.zip?path=
  598. # [17:24] <SimonSapin> annevk: yeah, it sounds not very useful and potentially dangerous
  599. # [17:26] <GPHemsley> Another way is to treat the zip file as if it's an embedded domain
  600. # [17:26] <GPHemsley> as in, relative links inside the ZIP can't get out of the ZIP
  601. # [17:27] <GPHemsley> such that <a href="#anchor"> gets turned into file.zip?path=subdir/file.html&id=anchor
  602. # [17:27] <GPHemsley> or something
  603. # [17:27] * GPHemsley shrugs
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  606. # [17:27] <GPHemsley> oh, s/?/#/
  607. # [17:28] <GPHemsley> force of habit
  608. # [17:28] <GPHemsley> but then if you have an embedded fragment for image dimensions, you'd need to deal with that
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  612. # [17:29] <GPHemsley> so <a href="#xywh=160,120,320,240"> inside /package.zip#path=image.jpg would get navigated to /package.zip#path=image.jpg&xywh=160,120,320,240
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  617. # [17:30] <GPHemsley> given that media fragments seems to allow multiple name-value pairs with the same name, you might be able to get away with #path=image.zip&path=embedded.html
  618. # [17:31] <GPHemsley> but this is me trying to solve problems you didn't really ask me about :)
  619. # [17:33] <GPHemsley> annevk: Would this proposal be a generic one that could possibly be extended to all archive types?
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  625. # [17:54] <annevk> GPHemsley: it's not clear to me we want to support all archive types
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  652. # [18:38] <Domenic_> is someone working on making svg support css gradients? (is that already specced?) because dropping back to markup to declare these gradients is just feeling silly.
  653. # [18:39] <annevk> Domenic_: TabAtkins would know, can also check public-fx for that I think
  654. # [18:39] <annevk> Domenic_: it's the CSS/SVG coordination group; given that such coordination is happening, I suspect they're on it
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  656. # [18:41] <Domenic_> annevk: neat, thanks.
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  666. # [18:53] <Ms2ger> "Three RDFa Recommendations Published"
  667. # [18:53] <Ms2ger> (Offered without comment)
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  674. # [19:08] <weinig> annevk: hello
  675. # [19:08] <JonathanNeal> I am writing an article on schemes and how to use them, common and proprietary, and I would love feedback, even if it's extremely critical. https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/6301455
  676. # [19:08] <annevk> weinig: hey hey
  677. # [19:08] <annevk> weinig: how are things? keeping hober in check on this b-day?
  678. # [19:09] <weinig> annevk: he's left me to "celebrate"
  679. # [19:09] <annevk> aah
  680. # [19:10] <weinig> annevk: I have a question about the dom spec promises,
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  682. # [19:11] <annevk> weinig: k
  683. # [19:11] <weinig> annevk: there are quite a few places that state to run the resolver's resolve, and I am curious if one should ever set the resolved flag out side of the 3 real js functions exposed on the resolver itself
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  685. # [19:11] <annevk> weinig: the long and short of it is that Domenic_ is working on something that matches better what TC39 wants
  686. # [19:11] <weinig> annevk: heh, ok
  687. # [19:12] <annevk> weinig: https://github.com/domenic/promises-unwrapping
  688. # [19:12] <weinig> annevk: 404 :(
  689. # [19:12] <annevk> weinig: yeah, the resolved flag is kinda broken
  690. # [19:12] <annevk> weinig: oh, didn't know Domenic_ made it private
  691. # [19:12] <weinig> maybe if I log in it will work
  692. # [19:12] <Domenic_> i can make it public i guess
  693. # [19:13] <Ms2ger> Yay, more design-in-back-rooms
  694. # [19:13] <weinig> Domenic_: thanks
  695. # [19:14] <weinig> annevk: I have most of it implemented already (just missing Promise.some and Promise.every)
  696. # [19:14] <annevk> weinig: gotta go, Domenic_ should be able to help out with further questions, we're pretty much in sync I think
  697. # [19:14] <weinig> annevk: I hope it doesn't change too muh
  698. # [19:14] <weinig> annevk: excellend
  699. # [19:14] <weinig> annevk: excellent
  700. # [19:14] <weinig> annevk: have a good night
  701. # [19:14] <annevk> weinig: so I think we might subset and remove fulfill() for now; details around scheduling might change
  702. # [19:15] <Domenic_> weinig: Ms2ger: annevk: public.
  703. # [19:15] <annevk> weinig: and the unwrapping might move entirely to the then() method; but by and large...
  704. # [19:15] <weinig> fair enough
  705. # [19:15] <annevk> thanks Domenic_
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  710. # [19:26] <TabAtkins> Domenic_: Yes, the idea is that fill/stroke will support the CSS <image> type as well.
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  712. # [19:26] <TabAtkins> (And vice versa.)
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  714. # [19:27] <TabAtkins> That is, SVG paint servers will work as <image> type in CSS.
  715. # [19:27] <Domenic_> TabAtkins: thank goodness. How's progress on that front? Distant-future, or living-spec-as-soon-as-someone-implements-it?
  716. # [19:28] <TabAtkins> The SVG-in-CSS part is roughly living spec, in Images 4 (check out element()). The CSS-in-SVG part is expected, but hasn't been written yet.
  717. # [19:29] <Domenic_> awww
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  719. # [19:29] <Domenic_> (but yes, element() is great stuff.)
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  734. # [20:17] <zcorpan> anyone want to finish reviewing https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/32 ?
  735. # [20:19] <jamesr__> annevk: i would tend to agree. i'm adding instrumentation to Blink for document.charset and document.defaultCharset to confirm
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  737. # [20:19] <jamesr__> annevk: if it turns out those things do appear to be needed, i'll let whatwg know. if it turns out they aren't (which is hopefully the case) i'll let WebKit know they can probably remove them too
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  755. # [21:14] <zcorpan> something that would be fun to do: subscribe to annevk's blog but with the posts from 10 years ago
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  758. # [21:15] <zcorpan> so today is http://annevankesteren.nl/2003/08/object
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  770. # [21:40] <Domenic_> oh woah i never noticed that "SVG sucks" changed to "URLs suck", haha
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  775. # [21:51] <TabAtkins> Whatever he's currently play with sucks.
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  779. # [22:00] <Domenic_> i feel like it was SVG for years.
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  784. # [22:03] <zcorpan> it was svg since jan 2009
  785. # [22:03] <zcorpan> dunno when it changed to urls
  786. # [22:04] <zcorpan> or what it was before svg
  787. # [22:04] <nimbu> annevk: ^^
  788. # [22:04] <nimbu> inquiring minds want to know
  789. # [22:06] <jarek> I haven't seen anybody notable to say that SVG sucks
  790. # [22:06] <jarek> maybe except Alex Russel
  791. # [22:06] * zcorpan just knows the svg date because he made the svg version and still has it at http://simon.html5.org/dump/
  792. # [22:06] <jarek> CSS3 definitely sucks more with the prefix hell
  793. # [22:08] <Hixie_> saying svg "sucks" is an oversimplification
  794. # [22:08] <Hixie_> but it certainly has some serious issues
  795. # [22:08] <Hixie_> (the wg has done some work to mitigate those over time)
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  817. # [22:54] <aklein> Hixie_: hi there. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/urls.html#dynamic-changes-to-base-urls seems to suggest that moving an <img> between document's shouldn't cause it to re-fetch any resources (and to simply keep displaying whatever it was displaying before), but quick tests suggests this isn't the case in either Blink or Gecko
  818. # [22:54] <aklein> (both re-resolve). Am I misreading the spec, or is there a bug somewhere?
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  822. # [22:56] <aklein> (trying to figure out how URL resolution plays with <link rel=import>
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  851. # [23:38] <Hixie_> aklein: probably a bug in the spec, the cross-document stuff isn't well documented
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  856. # [23:49] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  857. # [23:54] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
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  859. # [23:55] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
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  863. # Session Close: Fri Aug 23 00:00:00 2013

The end :)