/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-09-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Sep 15 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <zewt> pointer-events: none?
  4. # [00:01] <Hixie_> does that work these days?
  5. # [00:01] <zewt> might not be in IE
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  9. # [00:03] <Hixie_> pointer-events doesn't seem to work in chrome either
  10. # [00:04] <Hixie_> or firefox
  11. # [00:04] <Hixie_> oh wait, typo
  12. # [00:04] <zewt> i've used it a ton in webkit-specific stuff, at least
  13. # [00:06] <Hixie_> nope, can't get pointer-events: none to work
  14. # [00:06] * Hixie_ tries in a test case
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  16. # [00:07] <Hixie_> works in my test...
  17. # [00:07] <Hixie_> wtf
  18. # [00:10] <zewt> it also doesn't prevent non-pointer stuff, like tab navigation, which can take some extra work
  19. # [00:11] <Hixie_> oh, it was working i just missed an element
  20. # [00:11] <Hixie_> duh
  21. # [00:14] <Hixie_> man i wish specificity didn't exist
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  24. # [00:18] <annevk> I wonder if last matching selector wins would've been a better rule
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  161. # [15:54] <Domenic_> annevk's offhand comment has launched me into a topsy-turvy what-if world where every time i see some CSS selectors juxtaposed I contemplate what could have been, and whether it would have been better.
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  167. # [16:32] <annevk> Hah, sorry Domenic_!
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  176. # [17:16] <Jasper> Is there a standard test suite for <canvas>?
  177. # [17:18] <Jasper> I found http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/ but it seems to be really outdated.
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  179. # [17:20] <annevk> http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/approved/canvas/ I suspect
  180. # [17:20] <Jasper> Aha, thanks.
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  184. # [17:25] <Jasper> annevk, yeah, that doesn't seem to test what I'm looking for. Is there a way to submit new tests to that?
  185. # [17:26] <annevk> Jasper: pull requests to https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests I suspect
  186. # [17:26] <annevk> Jasper: seems there's a 2dcontext directory too...
  187. # [17:27] <annevk> Probably has something to do with the W3C making the silly decision to publish them as distinct documents while there's still only one person writing them...
  188. # [17:30] <Jasper> OK, yeah. Every browser that I can test with does not seem to use the clipping path when rendering text.
  189. # [17:30] <Jasper> even though: "These shapes are painted without affecting the current path, and are subject to shadow effects, global alpha, the clipping region, and global composition operators."
  190. # [17:31] <Jasper> I wonder if we should just remove "clipping path" from that sentence, since fixing that bug might cause backwards compatibility issues. But then in order to clip text I'd need to create a new scratch canvas and copy pixels over
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  192. # [17:33] <annevk> Jasper: I guess you're familiar with posting issues to whatwg@whatwg.org?
  193. # [17:33] <Jasper> I'm not, actually.
  194. # [17:34] <annevk> Jasper: http://www.whatwg.org/mailing-list#specs
  195. # [17:34] <annevk> Jasper: you can also file a bug, but emailing will give other implementers a better heads up, generally
  196. # [17:34] <Jasper> annevk, do I need to subscribe to the list, or can I just send one email?
  197. # [17:35] <annevk> Jasper: need to subscribe unfortunately, we're bad at handling spam :/
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  200. # [17:42] <Jasper> annevk, sent http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2013-September/040835.html
  201. # [17:42] <Jasper> sorry if I broke some etiquette or didn't explain myself clearly enough
  202. # [17:42] <annevk> Jasper: seems fine
  203. # [17:42] <annevk> Jasper: might take a while for people to get back to you, mind
  204. # [17:42] <Jasper> Yep.
  205. # [17:42] <Jasper> It's a weekend, too.
  206. # [17:43] <Jasper> annevk, thanks!
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  241. # [20:19] <gsnedders> Hixie_: So your change about lone surrogates is still a change from the old html5lib tests and what the spec used to say. Lone surrogates used to get converted to U+FFFD. Now, is that desirable or not? Dunno.
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  280. # [22:27] <annevk> That's what they do in CSS. I think we should be consistent at least... Rationale for one ought to apply to the other...
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  286. # [22:44] <Hixie_> gsnedders: i tried to do that and people screamed at me that DOM APIs shouldn't do unicode sanitising... *shrug*
  287. # [23:08] <gsnedders> Oh well. Anyone feel like updating a ton of tests?
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  301. # [23:40] <zcorpan> annevk: CSS doesn't U+FFFD lone surrogates, i think
  302. # [23:40] <annevk> zcorpan: per recent changes to css3-syntax it does, not at the CSSOM level though
  303. # [23:40] <annevk> I thought this discussion was about the parser because html5lib tests were mentioned...
  304. # [23:41] <Hixie_> it's at the parser level but only for document.write() and innerHTML
  305. # [23:41] <annevk> Fucking lone surrogates. We should really make up a set of principles and start applying them everywhere.
  306. # [23:41] <zcorpan> annevk: css-syntax only U+FFFDs lone surrogates in css escapes
  307. # [23:42] <zcorpan> annevk: which html does also
  308. # [23:42] <annevk> zcorpan: okay, and you can't get them in the input stream, so I guess that's consistent then
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  310. # [23:42] <zcorpan> yeah. except when the input stream comes from cssom i guess
  311. # [23:43] <annevk> So it seems the principles are what I thought they'd be. Script is 16-bit code units and includes lone surrogates. Just parsing from network guarantees Unicode scalar values, including if you use escapes...
  312. # [23:43] <zcorpan> yep
  313. # [23:44] <annevk> I think I'd prefer to just use 16-bit code units everywhere, but oh well...
  314. # [23:45] <annevk> I guess it's somewhat nicer if you don't have JavaScript and still want to interpret some HTML and use non-browser strings... But the difference seems marginal and if you want code sharing you'll end up with browser strings anyway.
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  318. # [23:48] <Hixie_> i'd be nicer if javascript was unicode scalar values and you never saw utf-16 anywhere ever ever ever
  319. # [23:50] <gsnedders> Well, that'd be easier if JS didn't predate UTF-16.
  320. # [23:52] <Hixie_> UTF-16 predates the web, let alone JS
  321. # [23:53] <Hixie_> though i guess teh surrogates don't predate the web
  322. # [23:53] <Hixie_> so practically you're right
  323. # [23:53] <gsnedders> UCS-2 predates the web, no?
  324. # [23:53] <gsnedders> UTF-16 comes later.
  325. # [23:53] <zewt> err, surrogates define utf-16
  326. # [23:53] <annevk> Well we can't change JavaScript. I'm not sure JavaScript predated utf-16
  327. # [23:54] <Hixie_> surrogates are 1996
  328. # [23:54] <gsnedders> UTF-16 was Unicode 2.0, 1996.
  329. # [23:54] <Hixie_> and livescript was 1995
  330. # [23:54] <Hixie_> so there we go
  331. # [23:54] <gsnedders> Superseding UCS-2.
  332. # [23:54] <zewt> (is this a conversation about how powerful we need to build our time machine)
  333. # [23:55] <Hixie_> yes
  334. # [23:55] <annevk> Yeah, copying Java :/
  335. # [23:55] <Hixie_> well, before utf-16, ucs2 made a lot of sense
  336. # [23:55] <gsnedders> It could map the entire Unicode codespace.
  337. # [23:55] <gsnedders> The problem is the codespace got expanded.
  338. # [23:55] <annevk> Sure, when 16-bit was enough for all code points...
  339. # [23:55] <gsnedders> annevk: Which it was when JS was created.
  340. # [23:56] <annevk> Now it's 21-bit, hopefully that'll last
  341. # [23:56] <annevk> gsnedders: yeah I know
  342. # [23:56] <zewt> ucs-2 makes a lot more sense than utf-16, now and then, it's just limited
  343. # [23:57] <gsnedders> annevk: Well, given we're still at a point of most things being unassigned, it probably depends mostly on the rate of language change. Which I'm dubious about, given everything is typed nowadays.
  344. # [23:57] <annevk> Anyway, this keeps coming up. We should sort it out somehow...
  345. # [23:57] <gsnedders> Language change insofar as it changes alphabets, that is
  346. # [23:57] * gsnedders votes lone surrogates always map to U+FFFD
  347. # [23:58] <annevk> gsnedders: that's not gonna happen
  348. # [23:58] <gsnedders> annevk: Why not?
  349. # [23:58] <annevk> gsnedders: we can't change the nature of strings in JavaScript
  350. # [23:58] <gsnedders> annevk: Oh, no, at that level it makes sense.
  351. # [23:58] <annevk> gsnedders: and we don't want the perf impact for every API
  352. # [23:59] <gsnedders> Then do we want to never convert them?
  353. # [23:59] <annevk> I think accepting 16-bit code units everywhere is the logical outcome, yes
  354. # [23:59] <gsnedders> Then we should probably change what &#xd800; does. But maybe we can't?
  355. # [23:59] <zcorpan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2011Nov/0020.html
  356. # Session Close: Mon Sep 16 00:00:00 2013

The end :)