/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-11-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Nov 08 00:00:01 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  9. # [00:10] <jorendorff> Domenic_: interesting situation... the Loader's use of Promises is supposed to be kind of an implementation detail, unobservable
  10. # [00:10] <jorendorff> Domenic_: but at various points user scripts can screw us over by modifying the builtins
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  12. # [00:11] <jorendorff> Domenic_: for example, CastToPromise calls GetDeferred which calls C.[[Construct]] which calls C[@@create], which is configurable
  13. # [00:11] <jorendorff> big ufn
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  30. # [00:20] <TabAtkins> jorendorff: We're dealing with that too. The solution seems to be to have some way to provide clean built-ins to browser JS.
  31. # [00:21] <Hixie_> that's basically what we do for all the other things that are defined in terms of author-visible features
  32. # [00:21] <jorendorff> TabAtkins: oh, dherman has designed an API for this: new Realm
  33. # [00:21] <jorendorff> but all the methods are probably configurable
  34. # [00:21] <Hixie_> (though i've tended to just define things in terms of algorithms and then invoke the algorithms rather than the native features)
  35. # [00:22] <Hixie_> s/native/author-accessible/
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  37. # [00:23] <jorendorff> that's what I'm used to (algorithms), but Promises are high-level enough that it starts to break down
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  126. # [03:39] <zewt> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23766 yeah i really don't understand dom3 events at all
  127. # [03:40] <zewt> why is a web spec trying to define every vendor-proprietary key
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  139. # [04:01] <GPHemsley> Anyone have any tips for getting a quick understanding of what is valid XSL?
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  141. # [04:04] <zewt> *(char*)0
  142. # [04:04] * GPHemsley thinks Hixie_ should give a course on how to write useful specs.
  143. # [04:05] <GPHemsley> This is the closest I've found to the XSL-related specs being useful: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-0/#index
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  145. # [04:08] <GPHemsley> (You'd think XML would be pretty straightforward to document: elements, attributes, possible values—boom, done.)
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  147. # [04:18] <GPHemsley> s/XSL/XSD/
  148. # [04:18] <GPHemsley> I don't know why I keep making that mistake.
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  239. # [09:09] <Ms2ger> Hrm
  240. # [09:09] <Ms2ger> So what's [TreatUndefinedAs=Null] good for?
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  245. # [09:21] <Streusel> Suggestion to add dc.title for metaextensions. Unless this is the wrong place & I misread it.
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  262. # [09:50] <MikeSmith> can't seem to get to http://testthewebforward.org/ from here in Shenzhen
  263. # [09:50] * Quits: sgalineau (~sylvaing@59.37.57.226) (Client Quit)
  264. # [09:51] <MikeSmith> great to see the Chinese censors got their priorities straight
  265. # [09:51] <Ms2ger> jgraham, check ^
  266. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> can get to http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/ so there's at least one useful thing we'll be able to do while we're here
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  268. # [09:54] <wilhelm_> MikeSmith: Confirmed. I've been on VPN all day, so I haven't noticed.
  269. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> wilhelm_: you know if jgraham and annevk-cloud have arrived?
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  272. # [10:02] <wilhelm_> MikeSmith: No, don't know which flights they are on. I'm hanging out in the lobby, cursing the wifi.
  273. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> wilhelm_: Wuzhou lobby?
  274. # [10:03] <wilhelm_> Yup.
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  276. # [10:05] <MikeSmith> I'll come down
  277. # [10:05] <MikeSmith> building A lobby?
  278. # [10:06] <wilhelm_> Uhh. Main lobby.
  279. # [10:06] <wilhelm_> The one in the middle.
  280. # [10:07] <wilhelm_> jgraham and AutomatedTester just walked in the door.
  281. # [10:08] <MikeSmith> party time
  282. # [10:09] <Ms2ger> Say hi to them, then
  283. # [10:09] * zcorpan is now at the guest house
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  288. # [10:16] <zcorpan> i guess i'll walk down and see if i can find someone i recognize
  289. # [10:17] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@59.37.57.226) (Remote host closed the connection)
  290. # [10:18] <annevk-cloud> MikeSmith: belt seven
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  292. # [10:18] <annevk-cloud> In HK...
  293. # [10:25] * Parts: a-ja1 (~Instantbi@70.230.164.222)
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  295. # [10:30] <annevk-cloud> Ms2ger: I already filed a bug to kill TreatAsUndefined
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  298. # [10:34] <MikeSmith> annevk-cloud: you coming to Wuzhou after you arrive?
  299. # [10:34] <MikeSmith> some kind of meetup planned for 8pm
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  301. # [10:35] <annevk-cloud> Hopefully I can make that!
  302. # [10:35] * vincent is now known as Guest88486
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  304. # [10:36] <hsivonen> looks like IRC works from China, then
  305. # [10:38] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah
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  308. # [10:40] <zcorpan> no dice
  309. # [10:40] <wilhelm_> zcorpan: Some of us are in the sofas in the lobby.
  310. # [10:40] <wilhelm_> Squatting.
  311. # [10:41] <zcorpan> the lobby next to the reception in A?
  312. # [10:41] <wilhelm_> Main lobby. I guess that's A.
  313. # [10:42] <zcorpan> i looked there twice, i guess you must be hiding pretty well
  314. # [10:42] <wilhelm_> Yellow sofas.
  315. # [10:43] <zcorpan> ok i'll try again
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  319. # [10:55] <sangwhan__> Don't try to walk out of the hotel, seems to lead straight to some expressway. Almost got killed.
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  323. # [11:02] * hsivonen makes a mental note of the "other factors" euphemism for prospective Membership fees
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  325. # [11:04] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: where's that from? the page about Membership fees I guess?
  326. # [11:08] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: https://twitter.com/w3c/status/398748409018208256
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  331. # [11:14] <jgraham> Hmm, I don't think twitter resolves
  332. # [11:15] <jgraham> Actually, that's not true it's just timing out
  333. # [11:15] <hsivonen> jgraham: the tweet says "@hsivonen We get it. A W3C Host opened there in Jan. Other factors led to holding #TPAC in China; that Twitter is blocked wasn't one of them"
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  355. # [12:20] <MikeSmith> annevk-cloud: when you arrive at the Wuzhou, a bunch of us are at the lobby restaurant, straight back from the front entrance
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  371. # [13:05] <smaug____> annevk-cloud: ping
  372. # [13:05] <smaug____> annevk-cloud: are you familiar with https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webperf/raw-file/tip/specs/Beacon/Overview.html ?
  373. # [13:06] * smaug____ kind of likes that idea
  374. # [13:06] <smaug____> but sendBeacon should be mapped somehow to XHR.send
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  390. # [13:51] <annevk-cloud> MikeSmith: just got to my hotel, still worth it?
  391. # [13:51] <MikeSmith> yeah
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  393. # [13:51] <MikeSmith> annevk-cloud: we just finishing dinner now, and there's some TestTWF thing upstairs we going to from here
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  395. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> Huaxia Hall
  396. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> ah now
  397. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> *no
  398. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> that's wrong
  399. # [13:55] <MikeSmith> Longzhou Room
  400. # [13:55] <MikeSmith> is the place
  401. # [13:58] <annevk-cloud> Okay, going to find some money and a cab
  402. # [13:58] <annevk-cloud> Oh, and I guess the name of the hotel in Chinese
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  405. # [14:02] <MikeSmith> annevk-cloud: hang on, will get it for you
  406. # [14:05] <Ms2ger> Ohai guys: http://i.imgur.com/57yCyrh.jpg
  407. # [14:13] <MikeSmith> annevk-cloud: 深圳市五洲宾馆
  408. # [14:17] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: nice to have something to look forward to
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  410. # [14:21] <annevk-cloud> Thanks, going nowish.
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  421. # [14:57] <sangwhan__> dbaron: 华强北 (hua chang bay) and 赛格广场 (sei ger guang chang) are the keywords you want (romanization might be incorrect, i don't speak chinese)
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  425. # [15:03] <hsivonen> good thing https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214729 was WONTFIXed
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  444. # [16:01] <SteveF> marcosc: don't mess with Ms2ger's module
  445. # [16:02] <marcosc> heh
  446. # [16:02] <marcosc> Who is the module owner anyway?
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  448. # [16:12] <Ms2ger> jst/peterv
  449. # [16:12] <Ms2ger> SteveF, not mine... I learned not to wontfix bugs the same way :)
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  452. # [16:15] <SteveF> Ms2ger: comment was driven by alliteration Mess Ms2ger Module
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  506. # [18:27] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  514. # [18:42] <GPHemsley> Is there no element selector in Chrome Inspector?
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  516. # [18:43] * Ms2ger thinks zcorpan got his time zones wrong
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  530. # [19:08] <karlcow> are there any browsers reading the "type" information in <link rel="icon" type="blah" />?
  531. # [19:08] <karlcow> My initial gut is none.
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  534. # [19:12] * GPHemsley thinks that would fall under the purview of mimesniff
  535. # [19:13] <GPHemsley> but I don't know the answer offhand
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  555. # [19:32] <jorendorff> there should be a Promise.nowThen(f), equivalent to Promise.fulfill(undefined).then(f)
  556. # [19:32] <Hixie_> nowThen nowThen
  557. # [19:32] <Hixie_> what's all this then
  558. # [19:33] * Hixie_ shows himself out
  559. # [19:33] <TabAtkins> jorendorff: What would that do?
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  565. # [19:34] <jorendorff> TabAtkins: .then() is a good API, it would be nice to have an extremely similar API to use when I'm creating a new Promise from scratch
  566. # [19:35] <TabAtkins> That's just Promise.fulfill(f())
  567. # [19:35] <jorendorff> well, no, because f may throw
  568. # [19:35] <TabAtkins> Ah, I see.
  569. # [19:36] <jorendorff> the Promise constructor -- i can see why that is necessary, but those state-mutate-y functions, it's pretty weird using them in combination with the rest of the API which is all combinator-y
  570. # [19:37] <TabAtkins> Yeah, and you can't easily use Promise(f), because f needs to affirmatively resolve the promise with its return value. (But the throwing possibility is taken care of automatically.)
  571. # [19:37] <TabAtkins> Promise.fulfill().then(f) works, of course.
  572. # [19:38] <jorendorff> yeah
  573. # [19:38] <TabAtkins> Promise.call(f)
  574. # [19:38] <TabAtkins> Suggest it as sugar on the repo.
  575. # [19:38] <TabAtkins> Wait no, that doesn't work, because Promise is already a function. ^_^
  576. # [19:38] <Domenic_> Promise.try is the traditional name.
  577. # [19:38] <jorendorff> heh! good catch :)
  578. # [19:39] <TabAtkins> Domenic_: Sure, that sounds good.
  579. # [19:39] <Domenic_> Pretty sure there's already a closed issue for that
  580. # [19:39] <Domenic_> I have an interesting data point on DRM
  581. # [19:40] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.218.152) (Quit: weinig)
  582. # [19:40] <Domenic_> I am on client site for a top-5 US bank. They need training videos in their web app (which they are selling to many other banks).
  583. # [19:40] <Domenic_> When presented with the choice between flash + encryption or HTML5 + no encryption, they said HTML5 was a no-brainer
  584. # [19:40] <Domenic_> They would just protect the videos with login etc.
  585. # [19:41] <Domenic_> (story over)
  586. # [19:41] <TabAtkins> Yeah, because that's the *right answer*.
  587. # [19:41] <TabAtkins> But cool to hear. ^_^
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  603. # [20:36] <GPHemsley> Why can't I get a ::before pseudo-element to not inherit text-decoration? ;_;
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  607. # [20:45] <Hixie_> GPHemsley: it isn't inheriting it
  608. # [20:45] <Hixie_> GPHemsley: it's just being drawn by the parent
  609. # [20:45] <Hixie_> across all its children
  610. # [20:45] <GPHemsley> but I can't undo it, even with !important
  611. # [20:46] <Hixie_> it's not inherited at all, so, yeah
  612. # [20:46] <Hixie_> there's nothing to undo
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  614. # [20:48] <GPHemsley> so how do I do what I want?
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  617. # [20:53] <Hixie_> GPHemsley: you want to underline the contents of the element and not underline its ::before contents?
  618. # [20:53] <GPHemsley> line-through, but yeah
  619. # [20:53] <Hixie_> GPHemsley: i don't think that's possible without either my elaborate ::outside stuff, or extra elements in the DOM
  620. # [20:54] <GPHemsley> why?? ;_;
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  641. # [21:37] <TabAtkins> GPHemsley: text-decoration doesn't inherit. Text decorations do, in a separate inheritance mechanism.
  642. # [21:37] <TabAtkins> There are values in Text Decor that suppress decorations coming from your ancestors.
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  658. # [22:15] <jorendorff> Domenic_: would you mind joining #jslang on irc.mozilla.org?
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  690. # [23:30] <Hixie_> TabAtkins: one option for the img thing that might be better than src-* or scripts or srcset is to have a way to declare how you pick images in general, which you could stash in a block in the <head>, and then you wouldn't need to repeat all the details in each <img> but could still prime the preloaer appropriately
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  693. # [23:33] <TabAtkins> Hixie_: Yeah, I've been over this in my head, and I can't come up with a way to program the preloader that's sufficiently general to accomplish what src-N does, let alone goes further.
  694. # [23:34] <Hixie_> well, you can move most of the logic from src-n to the preloader, right? i mean, in practice, there's gonna be a lot of replication
  695. # [23:34] <Hixie_> even if it was just to declare a "template", basically, and then srcfoo="" could just invoke a template and then list the urls to put into that template
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  700. # [23:41] <TabAtkins> Problem is that you can't *just* provide extraction logic. You need to have sufficient primitives to program it with so it can *decide* which to load.
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  703. # [23:45] <Hixie_> TabAtkins: sure. i'm saying move from <img srcset="foo 2x, bar 1x"> to some block that declares a simple template taking two URLs and mapping them to 2x and 1x respectively, and then <img srcfoo="foo bar">
  704. # [23:45] <Hixie_> TabAtkins: obviously with one image it's not great, but with a huge grid of images on some complex multi-"breakpoint" layout, it'd be a huge win
  705. # [23:46] <Hixie_> no need for multiple attributes per element, for example
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  711. # Session Close: Sat Nov 09 00:00:00 2013

The end :)