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- # Session Start: Mon Nov 11 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
- # [00:00] <norbert_> are you sure
- # [00:00] <norbert_> w3.org is the W3C website
- # [00:00] <Hixie_> it's just some wiki page on the w3c website, yes
- # [00:00] <norbert_> oh, never mind, I understand what you mean
- # [00:01] <norbert_> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#the-video-element
- # [00:01] <norbert_> "When the media resource is playing, hints to the user agent that bandwidth is to be considered scarce, e.g. suggesting throttling the download so that the media data is obtained at the slowest possible rate that still maintains consistent playback. "
- # [00:01] <norbert_> so it's in the W3C spec as well then
- # [00:01] <KevinMarks> If your content providers bandwidth is limited, they can serve packets out at a slower rate.
- # [00:01] <Hixie_> hahaha, really? the w3c spec doesn't get that right even?
- # [00:01] <Hixie_> no, they do say the same as the whatwg spec
- # [00:02] <Hixie_> "When the media resource is playing, hints to the user agent that bandwidth is to be considered scarce, e.g. suggesting throttling the download so that the media data is obtained at the slowest possible rate that still maintains consistent playback.
- # [00:02] <norbert_> yes, see my paste just now
- # [00:02] <Hixie_> "
- # [00:02] <Hixie_> it's the same text
- # [00:02] <norbert_> yes
- # [00:02] <Hixie_> ah, right
- # [00:02] <norbert_> so I should file a Firefox bug report then
- # [00:02] <Hixie_> you should do that regardless of what the w3c spec says
- # [00:02] <norbert_> yes, but it's nice when I can say it's mentioned everywhere :)
- # [00:03] <Hixie_> i don't think you realise quite how little it matters whether or not the w3c spec says this or not, but whatever floats your boat :-)
- # [00:04] <norbert_> the specs should rename "metadata" IMO
- # [00:04] <norbert_> it's misleading
- # [00:04] <norbert_> anyways
- # [00:04] <Hixie_> too late now
- # [00:04] <norbert_> thanks for all the feedback and thanks for pointing out the scarce bit of metadata
- # [00:04] <norbert_> will file a bug report with Firefox
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- # [00:06] <norbert_> hm
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- # [00:06] <norbert_> time for bed
- # [00:06] <norbert_> thanks again, bye
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- # [04:32] <annevk> Domenic_: because if you want to transport some JSON you need to know whether you can use a BOM in front of it or not
- # [04:32] <annevk> Domenic_: you can't anticipate clients on the web
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- # [05:01] <Hixie_> cabanier: i haven't looked at canvas things for a while, sorry. been trying to get security and scripting figured out.
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- # [05:08] <cabanier> Hixie_: no problem! As long as it's on your to do list.
- # [05:09] <Hixie_> yup, definitely there
- # [05:09] <Hixie_> you can see what's on the todo list here btw: http://www.whatwg.org/issues/
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- # [05:20] <jgraham> Do we have any generally agreed on standards for web-platform-tests code? Basically what should I mention when I do code review with webapps?
- # [05:21] <jgraham> I guess only darobin is here at the moment :|
- # [05:21] <darobin> jgraham: standards? you mean like coding conventions?
- # [05:22] * DaveMethvin is now known as DaveMethvin|away
- # [05:26] <jgraham> darobin: Yeah. Also what to look for other than just "does the test match the spec"
- # [05:26] <jgraham> So for example "use of external resources is bad"
- # [05:26] <jgraham> s/bad/forbidden/ I guess
- # [05:26] <MikeSmith> jgraham: should mention about, use idlharness for interface tests rather than writing them manually
- # [05:26] <darobin> ah
- # [05:27] <darobin> no, we don't have a checklist
- # [05:27] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Ah, good point
- # [05:27] <darobin> it would be good to have a checklist
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- # [05:27] <jgraham> Yup, that's what I'm trying to write
- # [05:28] <jgraham> Well actually at the moment I have got as far as "here are the review tools". But the next thing will be what to check for when you do the review
- # [05:28] <jgraham> Which should actually go in the documentation, so I should write it up properly
- # [05:29] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I think another thing to point out is that people should get familiar with the set of available assert_* methods and use the most specific one available when there is one
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- # [05:32] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Added
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- # [06:58] <jgraham> MikeSmith, zcorpan_: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/MeHiumCufk
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- # [07:01] <MikeSmith> jgraham: thanks will try to think if I can add anything useful there
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- # [07:03] <zcorpan_> jgraham: why " - Best to avoid the pattern where you have a test that asserts that the feature is supported and bails if it isn't" ?
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- # [07:06] <jgraham> zcorpan_: I mean "bails the whole page". When people do this they often depend on some assumptions about feature detection and then assume that none of their other tests will work if the feature detection failed. It seems much better to just run all the tests and let them fail unless that will take a rally long time
- # [07:06] <zcorpan_> oh, ok
- # [07:06] <jgraham> Getting a consistent number of test results is helpful for some kinds of tracking
- # [07:07] <zcorpan_> sometimes there's a separate test that just checks whether the feature is there, independently of the rest of the tests, which seems OK
- # [07:07] <zcorpan_> since if it fails it's very easy to see why
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- # [07:07] <jgraham> Yep, that is fine
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- # [07:08] <zcorpan_> maybe reword that point to be a bit clearer
- # [07:09] <jgraham> Sure
- # [07:09] <jgraham> These are just notes at the moment
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- # [07:26] <MikeSmith> darobin_: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/MeHiumCufk
- # [07:26] <darobin_> MikeSmith: ta
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- # Session Close: Mon Nov 11 08:06:30 2013
- #
- # Session Start: Mon Nov 11 08:06:30 2013
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
- # [08:06] * Disconnected
- # [08:20] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
- # [08:20] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
- # [08:20] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
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- # [09:17] <jgraham> Ms2ger: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/MeHiumCufk
- # [09:18] <Ms2ger> Nice
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- # [09:21] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Contributions welcome
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- # [09:38] <annevk> http://xkcd.com/1289/ brilliant
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- # [09:39] <Ms2ger> jgraham, when is the session?
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- # [10:00] <philipj_> jgraham, what's the best way to run web-platform-tests locally?
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- # [10:00] <philipj_> it looks like it needs a web server because of the paths starting with /
- # [10:00] <philipj_> also, the ability to run all the tests in a directory would be nice
- # [10:01] <jgraham> philipj_: The best way is to check out the jgraham/python_review_2 branch and follow the instructions in README.md
- # [10:02] <jgraham> There isn't any way to run a whole directory automatically because that's assumed to be browser-specific
- # [10:02] <jgraham> I guess you want to talk to Dirk Pranke
- # [10:03] <philipj_> jgraham, on t we had these runner.php in some places, which isn't browser-specific
- # [10:03] <philipj_> but it doesn't exist, I get it :)
- # [10:04] <jgraham> Right, but some tests depend on not being in an iframe and so on
- # [10:04] <jgraham> Could probably make a simple cross-browser harness that would be OK for local usage
- # [10:04] <jgraham> In fact Ms2ger might alrady have one
- # [10:04] <philipj_> oh, never encountered that for media tests, but of course that's sounds like an insurmountable problem
- # [10:04] <jgraham> Well window.open helps
- # [10:05] <jgraham> I think the main thing that's hard to do is recover from crashes or hangs or whatever :)
- # [10:05] <philipj_> recovering from a crash is indeed hard
- # [10:06] <jgraham> (so doing something simple and entirely in-browser might make sense for non-production use cases)
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- # [10:07] <philipj_> jgraham, does serve.py need to be run as root?
- # [10:07] <jgraham> philipj_: No
- # [10:08] <jgraham> It doesn't use port 80, for better or worse
- # [10:08] <philipj_> I get socket.error: [Errno 110] Connection timed out
- # [10:08] <jgraham> On startup?
- # [10:08] <jgraham> Or when trying to access a TC?
- # [10:08] <philipj_> on startup
- # [10:08] <jgraham> Do you already have something running on port 8000?
- # [10:09] <philipj_> Not to my knowledge
- # [10:09] <jgraham> By default it tries to use 8000 and a couple of random free ports
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- # [10:09] <jgraham> (you can change that in config.json)
- # [10:10] <philipj_> lsof | grep -w 8000 does find a few things, but it looks like it's port 8000 on the other side of the TCP connection
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- # [10:10] <jgraham> (Is that different to lsof -i :8000 ?)
- # [10:10] <philipj_> I have no idea, I've hardly ever used lsof
- # [10:11] <jgraham> Right, that's the only usage I know :)
- # [10:11] <philipj_> lsof -i :8000 finds one of the four things I saw before
- # [10:11] <philipj_> anyway, it's not because of the port, no random port I tested works
- # [10:11] <jgraham> Oh
- # [10:12] <jgraham> Well can I see the error?
- # [10:12] <philipj_> jgraham, http://pastebin.com/C00FKaZM
- # [10:12] <philipj_> Python is 2.7.4
- # [10:13] <philipj_> wow, pastebin has really horrible ads...
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- # [10:15] <jgraham> Doesn't work from China :) (but I can read it anyway)
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- # [10:16] <Ms2ger> philipj_, pastebin.mozilla.org doesn't have ads ;)
- # [10:16] <jgraham> It isn't very obvious. Did you edit /etc/hosts?
- # [10:16] <philipj_> Ms2ger, thanks!
- # [10:16] <Ms2ger> And my cross-browser test runner does use iframes (https://bitbucket.org/ms2ger/test-runner)
- # [10:17] <sangwhan__> philipj_: if all fails "python -m SimpleHTTPServer" works as a quick hack
- # [10:18] <philipj_> jgraham, I don't have anything weird in my /etc/hosts
- # [10:19] <philipj_> jgraham, maybe I should mentioned that I merged your branch to master instead of actually checking it out, will try doing as you said instead
- # [10:19] <jgraham> philipj_: You are supposed to add web-platform.test and some other subdomains
- # [10:19] <philipj_> jgraham, oh look, I started reading at the submodule stuff
- # [10:20] <jgraham> I should fix to not throw though
- # [10:20] <jgraham> There was an older model where it used "localhost"
- # [10:20] <jgraham> But localhost turns out to be a magic name
- # [10:20] <philipj_> you could try resolving all of the required hosts and telling me to RTFM if it fails I guess
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- # [10:21] <jgraham> That is what it's trying to do, almost
- # [10:21] <jgraham> It just doesn't work if web-platform.test itself doesn't resolve
- # [10:21] <jgraham> Which is a bug
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- # [10:24] <philipj_> jgraham, glad to me of service by not reading the readme :)
- # [10:24] <philipj_> well now I have it running, so thanks!
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- # [10:24] <jgraham> Great :)
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- # [10:34] <jgraham> ~.
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- # [10:38] <Ms2ger> annevk, yt?
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- # [10:39] <annevk> Ms2ger: sure
- # [10:39] <annevk> Ms2ger: sitting next to jgraham, plotting
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- # [10:40] <Ms2ger> Well, that's an excellent combination :)
- # [10:40] <Ms2ger> So the load event fired on window apparently needs to have target==document
- # [10:41] <Ms2ger> Want to check if https://github.com/mozilla/servo/pull/1213 is a reasonable way to implement that?
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- # [10:44] <annevk> Ms2ger: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#events-and-the-window-object
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- # [10:45] <annevk> Ms2ger: not sure what is going on there
- # [10:45] <annevk> Ms2ger: or why it is non-compliant
- # [10:46] <Ms2ger> Because a fully compliant implementation of page loading is hard
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- # [10:47] <annevk> AbstractEventTarget::from_document(document) looks icky
- # [10:47] <Ms2ger> Yeah, that's working around the lack of inheritance
- # [10:49] <annevk> some sad code
- # [10:49] <Ms2ger> So the issue is that step 7.2 of http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-end.html#the-end can't really be done if you call into http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-event-dispatch
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- # [10:50] <annevk> remind me
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- # [10:51] <Ms2ger> Come again?
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- # [10:52] <annevk> How can it not be done?
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- # [10:54] <Ms2ger> Because http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-event-dispatch step 3 sets target to the wrong value, and you'd have to change it to the document somewhere in the middle of the algorithm
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- # [11:00] <annevk> Beautiful
- # [11:00] <annevk> Ms2ger: file a bug
- # [11:01] <annevk> Add this to the have Hixie_ merge HTML and DOM
- # [11:01] <annevk> bucket
- # [11:01] <hober> we're gonna need a bigger bucket
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- # [11:04] <Ms2ger> annevk, not sure how that'd help, except that then Hixie_ would need to fix it :)
- # [11:05] <annevk> Ms2ger: for starters we'd have the whole object chain in one spec
- # [11:06] <annevk> Ms2ger: anyway, file a bug, disregard bucket for now
- # [11:06] <annevk> kthxbai
- # [11:06] <Ms2ger> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23792
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- # [14:18] <philipj> zcorpan, what do you think about https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/429 ?
- # [14:19] <philipj> VTTCue is the only path for testing TextTrackCue, but it looks a bit odd to test TextTrackCue using a new VTTCue(...)
- # [14:19] <zcorpan> i'll have a look
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- # [14:25] <zcorpan_> annoying how critic handles moved and edited files
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- # [14:31] <zcorpan_> philipj: do the tests pass?
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- # [14:33] <zcorpan_> philipj: the only things changed are s/TextTrackCue/VTTCue/ basically, right?
- # [14:33] <philipj> zcorpan_, only s/new TextTrackCue/new VTTCue/ actually
- # [14:34] <philipj> I didn't change any tests to check for the interface object, if there is any
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- # [14:37] <zcorpan_> so it seems there are some spec changes that affect these tests. do you want me to comment on that in this review?
- # [14:37] <zcorpan_> unrelated to the VTTCue change that is
- # [14:41] <zcorpan_> philipj: ^
- # [14:41] * jorendorff is now known as jorendorff_away
- # [14:41] <philipj> zcorpan_, the fact that not all of these tests are still correct?
- # [14:42] <philipj> I'm aware of that, and think it's better to review that when moving out of old-tests
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- # [14:42] <zcorpan_> ok, wfm
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- # [14:44] <philipj> zcorpan_, how are those two reviews to import more of our tests coming along?
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- # [14:48] <zcorpan_> philipj: you mean https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/307 and https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/74 ?
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- # [14:48] <philipj> zcorpan_, I think those are the ones you showed me last time, yes
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- # [14:48] <zcorpan_> not much has happened
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- # [14:50] <zcorpan_> i think the wpt-serve thing makes changes to the files in 74 which makes it more interesting
- # [14:51] <jgraham> zcorpan_: You should forward critic feature requests to jl :)
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- # [14:51] <zcorpan_> yeah i can file a bug on critic
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- # [15:33] <philipj> zcorpan_, https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/430 is also for you
- # [15:34] <philipj> (I'm preparing to re-import some of the track tests and want them to not be so ugly first)
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- # [15:35] <zcorpan_> hmmm. i'm a bit worried about conflicts with existing PRs there
- # [15:37] <zcorpan_> like wpt-serve touches dnd tests iirc
- # [15:38] <zcorpan_> i'll hand it over to jgraham
- # [15:41] <zcorpan_> now time to sleep
- # [15:41] <philipj> oh right, you're at TPAC :)
- # [15:41] <zcorpan_> yep
- # [15:42] <zcorpan_> i think i'll do some squatting in the morning
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- # [15:43] <jgraham> zcorpan_: I am hoping that the merge conflicts won't be too hard to sort out
- # [15:43] <philipj> if it's an issue, I can revert the dnd changes, it's just the media stuff I really care about
- # [15:43] <jgraham> Since the demantics of the test don't change it should be obvious what the right side of the diff to take is
- # [15:44] <jgraham> s/diff/merge/
- # [15:44] <zcorpan_> yeah, ok
- # [15:44] <zcorpan_> *poof*
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- # [21:27] <jensnockert> Domenic_: Good work on the Streams API btw.
- # [21:27] <Domenic_> jensnockert: thank you! Great comment BTW.
- # [21:28] <jensnockert> Thanks.
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- # [22:03] <jensnockert> Domenic_: What I find most unclear is, if I write something to an 'identity' pipe, can it return the same object on the other end? Or is it always a copy?
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- # [22:05] <jensnockert> For example, a tee pipe, is the same object returned on all endpoints?
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- # [22:12] <Domenic_> jensnockert: nothing would stop you from returning the same object.
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- # [22:12] <jensnockert> Cool.
- # [22:13] <Domenic_> I think the built-in tee pipe would not do any sort of clone, although you could imagine someone building a StructuredCloneTeeStream or something
- # [22:13] <jensnockert> Yeah, but anything that is up to the implementer is cool.
- # [22:14] <jensnockert> Err… programmer.
- # [22:15] <jensnockert> Whatever the word is for 'The person implementing the custom stream type'
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- # Session Close: Tue Nov 12 00:00:00 2013
The end :)