/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-12-13 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Dec 13 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <bholley> Hixie: alright, let's see where we can get with this in 30 minutes
  4. # [00:01] <bholley> Hixie: So. The big problem with the grand Alien Object compromise that I'm thinking about right now is the stuff related to the functions we pull off the object
  5. # [00:02] <bholley> in particular, if we were to do this in Gecko today, two same-origin observers would pull different function identities off of a cross-origin Location
  6. # [00:03] <bholley> I could brainstorm ways to fix that
  7. # [00:04] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
  8. # [00:06] <Hixie> isn't the easiest way to fix it to just prevent access to all the things like prototypes and so on? and fake it in the ==/=== operators or something?
  9. # [00:06] <bholley> Hixie: I think we removed all ability to fake ===
  10. # [00:07] <bholley> Hixie: which is ok. I could fix it with membranes I think
  11. # [00:07] <bholley> Hixie: but if we go that route, it seems like we should do something similar with Window, right?
  12. # [00:08] <Hixie> i would certainly love for Window and Location to have similar logic, for the spec's sake if not yours :-)
  13. # [00:08] <bholley> Hixie: well, that's most of where I'd be coming from on that as well
  14. # [00:09] * Quits: turingTest (~mfrawley@66-188-99-174.static.ftbg.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  15. # [00:09] <bholley> Hixie: I'm guessing adam has more flexibility with Window than he does with Location
  16. # [00:09] <bholley> because it's already magical
  17. # [00:09] <Hixie> look, i'm basically open to anything at all at this point, so long as (a) it's secure and ideally (b) it doesn't result in weird identity issues where depending on how you look at an object, you get different results.
  18. # [00:10] <Hixie> and obviously if (b) is a non-starter, then i guess (a) is the only real requirements
  19. # [00:10] <Hixie> though i really do think authors will get themselves into very confused states if we don't do (b)
  20. # [00:10] <bholley> yeah
  21. # [00:12] <bholley> Hixie: yeah ok. Maybe we should do lunch. How about tuesday?
  22. # [00:12] <Hixie> tuesday 17th lgtm
  23. # [00:12] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  24. # [00:12] <bholley> Hixie: who is the counterpart with WebKit these days?
  25. # [00:12] <bholley> Hixie: or will adam know enough about WebKit to speak for them?
  26. # [00:13] <Hixie> he probably will, but it'd be nice to get someone else there
  27. # [00:13] * Quits: roven_ (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
  28. # [00:13] <Hixie> hober: ping
  29. # [00:13] <bholley> abarth: ping
  30. # [00:13] <abarth> bholley: hi
  31. # [00:14] <bholley> abarth: how about lunch next week with me and Hixie?
  32. # [00:14] <Hixie> to talk about Location/Window, primarily
  33. # [00:14] <abarth> sure
  34. # [00:14] <bholley> abarth: tuesday work?
  35. # [00:15] <abarth> mon and tues, I'm at an all-day meeting. wed works though
  36. # [00:15] <Hixie> aklein: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23990
  37. # [00:15] <bholley> blarg, I'm getting a visa on wed
  38. # [00:15] <abarth> where are you located?
  39. # [00:16] <abarth> I could do thursday in san francisco
  40. # [00:16] <Hixie> thurs is no good for me
  41. # [00:16] <Hixie> friday works though if you're around
  42. # [00:16] <bholley> abarth: I'm kinda stochastic between the peninsula, east bay, and SF
  43. # [00:16] <abarth> i could do friday in SF
  44. # [00:17] <Hixie> friday in the goog office?
  45. # [00:17] <Hixie> i can just work from google's SF office on friday if we do that
  46. # [00:17] <bholley> that works
  47. # [00:18] <bholley> I can do that to, I guess. We might think of other things to talk about
  48. # [00:18] <Hixie> heh
  49. # [00:18] <bholley> (assuming I'm allowed to do that?)
  50. # [00:18] <abarth> yes :)
  51. # [00:18] <abarth> send me email and we can work out the details
  52. # [00:18] <Hixie> bholley: i'm sure there's somewhere we can put you :-)
  53. # [00:18] <bholley> sounds good :-)
  54. # [00:19] <bholley> friday is the last day before Mozilla shuts down for 2 weeks :-)
  55. # [00:19] <aklein> Hixie: looking...
  56. # [00:19] <Hixie> this is friday 20th right, not tomorrow
  57. # [00:20] <abarth> yep
  58. # [00:20] * Quits: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-166-14.bflony.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  59. # [00:21] <aklein> Hixie: pong
  60. # [00:22] <Hixie> aklein: thanks
  61. # [00:22] <Hixie> oh, interesting
  62. # [00:22] <Hixie> hadn't thought about how this impacts nested templates
  63. # [00:22] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: tobie)
  64. # [00:23] <aklein> yeah, nesting was the original motivation for re-use when the the ownerDocument already lacked a browsing context
  65. # [00:23] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  66. # [00:23] <aklein> just came naturally, basically
  67. # [00:24] <Hixie> ok well since i create the documents right there, i can label them easily enough
  68. # [00:24] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  69. # [00:25] <aklein> yeah, it's easy enough, just sort of tricky
  70. # [00:25] <aklein> would have liked to hear wchen's thoughts on this
  71. # [00:26] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  72. # [00:26] <Hixie> bholley: you gonna send e-mail to abarth and i for details?
  73. # [00:26] <bholley> Hixie: I did, didn't I
  74. # [00:26] <bholley> ?
  75. # [00:27] <Hixie> ah ok, cool. haven't gotten it yet. thanks.
  76. # [00:29] <hober> Hixie: coincidentally, i'll be in the google sf office tomorrow
  77. # [00:29] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  78. # [00:30] * hober reads more, realizes you were talking about a different friday
  79. # [00:33] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  80. # [00:35] <Hixie> hober: d'oh
  81. # [00:35] <Hixie> hober: you wanna come the next friday also? :-)
  82. # [00:35] <Hixie> hober: actually what i wanted to ask you is who from apple would be appropriate to talk to about this
  83. # [00:36] <bholley> Hixie: maybe we should see if microsoft could send someone too? It could be a real summit!
  84. # [00:36] <bholley> ;-)
  85. # [00:37] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  86. # [00:39] <Hixie> i'd love to have them send someone
  87. # [00:39] * jorendorff is now known as jorendorff_away
  88. # [00:41] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net)
  89. # [00:44] * Quits: lerc_ (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  90. # [00:47] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  91. # [00:48] <Hixie> aklein: bug fixed
  92. # [00:48] <Hixie> bholley: haven't seen your e-mail yet, fwiw
  93. # [00:49] <aklein> Hixie: thanks!
  94. # [00:49] * Joins: Mentioum (~Mentioum@213.205.241.166)
  95. # [00:50] * Joins: dbaron_ (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  96. # [00:50] <bholley> Hixie: it was sent to ian@hixie.ch
  97. # [00:50] <bholley> Hixie: subject: Friday the 20th at Google
  98. # [00:50] <bholley> abarth: did you get the email?
  99. # [00:51] <Hixie> it's quite possible that my mail setup ate it, or is just sitting on it to spite me
  100. # [00:53] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@LPuteaux-156-15-41-14.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  101. # [00:54] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  102. # [00:55] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.114.107.163) (Quit: ap)
  103. # [00:56] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.24.64e950153c80.01b11587a2c.afb.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  104. # [00:56] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-74-73-238-8.nyc.res.rr.com)
  105. # [01:01] <hober> Hixie: I'm not sure what this is
  106. # [01:01] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  107. # [01:04] <bholley> hober: this is a meetup to spec out the corner-case behavior of cross-origin Location objects
  108. # [01:06] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@c-50-148-162-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: bholley)
  109. # [01:08] <Hixie> hober: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20701
  110. # [01:09] <Hixie> i'm going offline til tomorrow. later all.
  111. # [01:11] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  112. # [01:12] * Joins: ap (~ap@17.114.218.49)
  113. # [01:13] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Remote host closed the connection)
  114. # [01:15] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  115. # [01:17] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117) (Quit: weinig)
  116. # [01:18] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@LPuteaux-156-15-41-14.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  117. # [01:18] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.114.218.49) (Remote host closed the connection)
  118. # [01:19] * Joins: malaclyps (~Danny@unaffiliated/malaclyps)
  119. # [01:19] * Joins: ap (~ap@17.202.44.214)
  120. # [01:23] * Quits: decotii (~decotii@hq.croscon.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  121. # [01:29] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  122. # [01:34] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  123. # [01:34] * Quits: malaclyps (~Danny@unaffiliated/malaclyps) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  124. # [01:37] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  125. # [01:38] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.144.214)
  126. # [01:46] * Joins: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net)
  127. # [01:56] * Joins: sankha93 (~Instantbi@fsf/emeritus/sankha93)
  128. # [01:57] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  129. # [02:05] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117)
  130. # [02:12] * Quits: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310])
  131. # [02:12] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.202.44.214) (Quit: ap)
  132. # [02:13] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@acces1130.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  133. # [02:13] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com)
  134. # [02:26] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@64-46-23-103.dyn.novuscom.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  135. # [02:29] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117) (Quit: weinig)
  136. # [02:30] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  137. # [02:32] * Quits: seventh (seventh@209.99.2.82) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  138. # [02:34] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  139. # [02:41] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  140. # [02:43] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117)
  141. # [02:45] * Quits: Mentioum (~Mentioum@213.205.241.166) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  142. # [02:45] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  143. # [02:46] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117) (Client Quit)
  144. # [02:56] * Joins: [[zz]] (~zz]]@node-ll1.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
  145. # [02:57] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
  146. # [02:58] * Quits: sgalineau (~sylvaing@192.150.22.5) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  147. # [02:58] * Joins: falken_ (uid20729@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skzvxmykokkjzaar)
  148. # [03:01] * Parts: hayato_ (hayato@nat/google/x-bqtrhlrjgutstcvc)
  149. # [03:01] * Joins: hayato (uid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lkertumizaniltap)
  150. # [03:13] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  151. # [03:17] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  152. # [03:21] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  153. # [03:30] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  154. # [03:31] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  155. # [03:31] * Quits: vortex (~vortex@78.97.67.247) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  156. # [03:33] * Joins: vortex (~vortex@78.97.67.247)
  157. # [03:35] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  158. # [03:39] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  159. # [03:39] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  160. # [03:41] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  161. # [03:42] * Quits: sankha93 (~Instantbi@fsf/emeritus/sankha93) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  162. # [03:43] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@c-50-148-162-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  163. # [03:44] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  164. # [03:45] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  165. # [03:45] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  166. # [03:46] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  167. # [03:48] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  168. # [03:48] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  169. # [03:50] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@5469E6D4.cm-12-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  170. # [03:50] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@5469E6D4.cm-12-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  171. # [03:50] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  172. # [03:53] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  173. # [03:56] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  174. # [03:58] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  175. # [04:00] * Quits: dbaron_ (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  176. # [04:00] * Quits: foxtrotwhiskey (~foxtrotwh@c-98-225-154-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  177. # [04:02] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  178. # [04:05] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  179. # [04:06] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@5469E6D4.cm-12-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  180. # [04:06] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@5469E6D4.cm-12-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  181. # [04:06] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  182. # [04:12] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  183. # [04:13] * Quits: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  184. # [04:13] * Joins: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
  185. # [04:14] * Quits: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  186. # [04:14] * Joins: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
  187. # [04:14] * Quits: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  188. # [04:14] * Joins: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
  189. # [04:15] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  190. # [04:15] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@c-50-148-162-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: bholley)
  191. # [04:19] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  192. # [04:20] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63)
  193. # [04:25] * Quits: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Quit: leaving)
  194. # [04:28] * Quits: alancutter (~chatzilla@2401:fa00:9:1:b6b5:2fff:fecb:1eda) (Read error: No route to host)
  195. # [04:31] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  196. # [04:34] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  197. # [04:35] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  198. # [04:37] * Joins: foxtrotwhiskey (~foxtrotwh@c-98-225-154-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  199. # [04:37] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  200. # [04:39] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:3ea9:f4ff:fe34:6fd4) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-7.1450hg.fc19 [XULRunner 25.0/20131030081700])
  201. # [04:41] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  202. # [04:43] * Quits: foxtrotwhiskey (~foxtrotwh@c-98-225-154-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  203. # [04:45] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  204. # [04:47] * Quits: bzalasky (~bzalasky@c-67-188-211-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  205. # [04:49] * Quits: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.144.214) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  206. # [04:49] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  207. # [04:49] * Joins: bzalasky_ (~bzalasky@c-67-188-211-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  208. # [04:50] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63)
  209. # [04:50] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.150.59)
  210. # [04:51] * Quits: jgraham (~jgraham@web91.webfaction.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  211. # [04:51] * Joins: jgraham (~jgraham@web91.webfaction.com)
  212. # [05:02] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  213. # [05:03] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@c-50-148-162-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  214. # [05:17] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  215. # [05:19] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  216. # [05:25] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  217. # [05:29] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@c-50-148-162-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: bholley)
  218. # [05:32] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  219. # [05:32] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@210.213.57.70)
  220. # [05:35] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35)
  221. # [05:35] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35) (Client Quit)
  222. # [05:37] * Joins: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
  223. # [05:37] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  224. # [05:50] * Joins: sankha93 (~Instantbi@fsf/emeritus/sankha93)
  225. # [05:56] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@76.14.87.162) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  226. # [05:58] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@210.213.57.70) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  227. # [06:00] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@76.14.87.162)
  228. # [06:18] * Parts: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.150.59)
  229. # [06:19] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  230. # [06:23] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  231. # [06:28] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  232. # [06:29] <MikeSmith> astearns: I suppose I should have realize that. Dunno why he bothers, since he's not going to get what he wants, if that's what he wants. Unless he wants to start writing ones himself in the old-school style to replace them
  233. # [06:30] <MikeSmith> some people really just love formalisms I guess
  234. # [06:32] * Joins: dglazkov_ (uid20749@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvtbqudanobmayul)
  235. # [06:33] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  236. # [06:37] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  237. # [06:43] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  238. # [06:43] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114) (Quit: rniwa)
  239. # [06:47] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  240. # [06:48] * Quits: bzalasky_ (~bzalasky@c-67-188-211-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  241. # [06:49] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  242. # [06:50] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
  243. # [06:55] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  244. # [06:59] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com)
  245. # [07:04] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com) (Ping timeout: 259 seconds)
  246. # [07:11] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@223.239.201.199)
  247. # [07:11] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@223.239.201.199) (Client Quit)
  248. # [07:11] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/ keeps requiring me to log back in during the same session, even though my IP is not changing and anyway I have "Restrict this session to this IP address". (And in both Firefox and Chromium)
  249. # [07:30] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@223.239.201.199)
  250. # [07:30] * Quits: sankha93 (~Instantbi@fsf/emeritus/sankha93) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  251. # [07:33] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  252. # [07:38] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  253. # [07:39] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  254. # [07:41] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  255. # [07:47] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I checked the relevant Bugzilla settings and didn't see anything obviously wrong.
  256. # [07:47] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I'm not a Bugzilla expert, so I really don't know what might be causing the problem
  257. # [07:48] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: do you know what I should be looking for?
  258. # [07:50] <hsivonen> annevk: regarding glibc and gb18030: a) not suprised at maintainer attitude b) gb18030 was supposed to be a UTF, so why does there exist a 2005 update?
  259. # [07:50] <hsivonen> *surprised
  260. # [07:57] <hsivonen> annevk: I find the use of PUA in GBK decoders (per http://coq.no/character-tables/chinese-simplified/en) troubling
  261. # [08:00] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@223.239.201.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  262. # [08:01] * Quits: diffalot (~diffalot@c-76-107-128-104.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  263. # [08:03] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net)
  264. # [08:03] * Joins: diffalot (~diffalot@c-76-107-128-104.hsd1.ms.comcast.net)
  265. # [08:03] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@223.239.201.199)
  266. # [08:06] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net)
  267. # [08:10] <hsivonen> annevk: considering that IE doesn't support (according to coq.no) ISO-8859-14 and -16, did you try to find out if there exists non-test case Web content in those encodings?
  268. # [08:12] * Quits: diffalot (~diffalot@c-76-107-128-104.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  269. # [08:12] * Joins: diffalot (~diffalot@unaffiliated/papyromancer)
  270. # [08:13] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~zz]]@node-4iq.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  271. # [08:17] * Quits: [[zz]] (~zz]]@node-ll1.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  272. # [08:17] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  273. # [08:18] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: tobie)
  274. # [08:22] * Joins: mven_ (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net)
  275. # [08:22] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: my Bugzilla knowledge is pretty limited. Don't know what to suggest you should look for. But if you try it yourself I'd think you'd be able to reproduce it.
  276. # [08:26] * Quits: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  277. # [08:31] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  278. # [08:34] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  279. # [08:35] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  280. # [08:37] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  281. # [08:38] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  282. # [08:44] <zcorpan> no patches, no record :-(
  283. # [08:44] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  284. # [08:47] <zcorpan> Hixie: the application-name edit seems like it selects no meta if no language has been declared. shouldn't it just fall back to the first element instead of none?
  285. # [08:49] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  286. # [08:56] * Quits: vortex (~vortex@78.97.67.247) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  287. # [08:58] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  288. # [09:00] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  289. # [09:03] * Parts: ondras (~ondras@zarovi.cz)
  290. # [09:09] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  291. # [09:14] * Joins: rego (~rego@231.193.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
  292. # [09:20] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net)
  293. # [09:23] <MikeSmith> trying figure out of marcosc is getting trolled in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2013Dec/0007.html or whether marcosc is actually the one doing the trolling
  294. # [09:23] * Quits: kangil (~kangil@210.94.41.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
  295. # [09:23] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@210.94.41.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
  296. # [09:28] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@210.94.41.89)
  297. # [09:29] * Joins: kangil (~kangil@210.94.41.89)
  298. # [09:31] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  299. # [09:38] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: indeed hard to say. marcosc's position looks rather extreme. what John Cowan says makes sense if he executes English as program code.
  300. # [09:38] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  301. # [09:40] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  302. # [09:44] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net)
  303. # [09:47] <zcorpan> testing resolving url in a cache manifest was actually straight-forward, to my surprise
  304. # [09:56] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: tobie)
  305. # [09:59] <zcorpan> wonder if i should also test "fallback" and "online whitelist", that seems slightly more annoying
  306. # [10:05] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  307. # [10:06] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: claiming a spec that uses (English) prose pseudo-code is a "reference implementation" is like saying a recipe for a cake is the same thing as a cake
  308. # [10:07] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  309. # [10:08] * Joins: jochen___ (jochen@nat/google/x-zkzpqmpbpwvofchv)
  310. # [10:11] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@acces1130.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  311. # [10:12] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net)
  312. # [10:26] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  313. # [10:31] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  314. # [10:32] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194)
  315. # [10:34] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  316. # [10:34] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  317. # [10:38] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  318. # [10:38] <marcosc> what?
  319. # [10:38] <marcosc> me troll?
  320. # [10:39] <marcosc> hsivonen, MikeSmith - what he was implying doesn't make sense.
  321. # [10:39] <marcosc> English is not code
  322. # [10:40] <marcosc> And a spec not written in a form that can be implemented doesn't make sense
  323. # [10:40] <marcosc> also, I was basically giving the definition of a standard as defined by ISO, I think... let check on that
  324. # [10:45] <tantek> marcosc, standards that you have to pay for to get a copy of a PDF?
  325. # [10:48] * Joins: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be)
  326. # [10:49] <zcorpan> nice, i put \u00E5 in the query string in a cache manifest, presto fetches %C3%83%C2%A5
  327. # [10:49] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  328. # [10:51] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  329. # [10:59] <marcosc> tantek: isn't that what makes a standard? :)
  330. # [11:01] <marcosc> "This might be very useful for people writing implementation code, butit's not so helpful for people *using* the feature (like authoring fileURIs), or people trying to understand why something works the way it works."
  331. # [11:01] <hsivonen> marcosc: well, suggesting a browser is a reference implementation is pretty extreme even for the WHATWG and doesn't make sense without saying *which* browser
  332. # [11:01] <marcosc> hsivonen: I don't follow?
  333. # [11:02] <hsivonen> marcosc: John is right about the meaning of "reference implementation"
  334. # [11:02] <hsivonen> marcosc: which means a piece of software whose behavior constitutes the authoritative standard
  335. # [11:03] <marcosc> I don't agree. Or at least, and implementation to me is something else.
  336. # [11:03] <marcosc> an spec cannot be an implementation of itself
  337. # [11:03] <marcosc> as an implementation cannot pass a test suite
  338. # [11:04] <marcosc> im·ple·men·ta·tion "the process of putting a decision or plan into effect; execution."
  339. # [11:04] <hsivonen> marcosc: John is right about what "reference implementation" means. When he says WHATWG specs are reference implementations, he probably considers WHATWG spec language style as algorithmic enough English to be like code
  340. # [11:05] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  341. # [11:05] <marcosc> even if that were true (which, is demonstratively not the case as English is pretty bad at executing), his definition of a standard would still be flawed
  342. # [11:06] <marcosc> as what he is suggesting for a standard is something that would not follow these rules and hence one could not implement reliably?
  343. # [11:06] <hsivonen> dunno how he defines "standard"
  344. # [11:06] <marcosc> well, he clearly excludes the WHATWG specs
  345. # [11:06] <marcosc> which makes me very suspicious and leads me to conclude that he is confused about what a standard is.
  346. # [11:06] <hsivonen> marcosc: maybe RFCs are something that one could not implement reliably, and, therefore, count as standards. ;-)
  347. # [11:07] <marcosc> heh
  348. # [11:07] <marcosc> could be :)
  349. # [11:07] <marcosc> I guess the same applies to W3C specs?
  350. # [11:07] <hsivonen> at least the ones that aren't just copies of WHATWG specs. :-)
  351. # [11:09] * Joins: falken__ (~falken@2401:fa00:4:fd00:bced:8265:41e4:34c5)
  352. # [11:09] * Quits: falken__ (~falken@2401:fa00:4:fd00:bced:8265:41e4:34c5) (Client Quit)
  353. # [11:17] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@108.59.8.165)
  354. # [11:17] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  355. # [11:19] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@149.225-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  356. # [11:23] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  357. # [11:24] * Quits: fredy (~fredy@snf-8914.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr) (Excess Flood)
  358. # [11:25] <Ms2ger> Nobody mentioned http://blog.chromium.org/2013/12/ecma-forms-tc52-for-dart-standardization.html yet?
  359. # [11:27] * Joins: fredy (~fredy@snf-8914.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr)
  360. # [11:29] * Quits: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  361. # [11:34] * Joins: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be)
  362. # [11:37] * Quits: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  363. # [11:41] <jgraham> Ms2ger: zgrep
  364. # [11:42] <jgraham> Oh, I was way into the backscroll
  365. # [11:42] <Ms2ger> jgraham, yep, I found that, thanks :)
  366. # [11:42] <jgraham> Sorry
  367. # [11:43] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@223.239.201.199) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  368. # [11:44] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  369. # [11:47] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  370. # [11:57] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  371. # [12:00] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@223.239.201.199)
  372. # [12:07] * Joins: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be)
  373. # [12:08] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  374. # [12:21] <darobin> I had no idea that Ecma standardised Eiffel
  375. # [12:23] <jgraham> I hear it was a towering achievement
  376. # [12:23] * jgraham gets his coat
  377. # [12:25] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net)
  378. # [12:25] <darobin> badum *tsch*
  379. # [12:29] * Quits: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  380. # [12:29] <gsnedders> …
  381. # [12:31] * Joins: felipeduardo_ (~felipedua@r253-pw-corumbatai.ibys.com.br)
  382. # [12:33] <marcosc> You know ECMA is the real deal because they publish using Word!... though those in-spec-algorithms my not cut the "standards" mustard.
  383. # [12:36] <Ms2ger> Pff, tc39 only does reference implementations
  384. # [12:39] <jgraham> They should have written the dart standard in js and the js standard in C# and the C# standard in Eiffel. Then it really would be an Eiffel tower.
  385. # [12:40] <tantek> jgraham++
  386. # [12:41] <gsnedders> jgraham: Don't say that. People might get ideas.
  387. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> Did gsnedders just get ideas for a thesis?
  388. # [12:43] <jgraham> gsnedders: It's fine. At the end they would publish the whole lot in Open Office XML transcoded into JSON and distribute it on HVD-ROM cartridges
  389. # [12:44] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.181)
  390. # [12:48] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net)
  391. # [12:49] <annevk> hsivonen: I think gb18030 had an update to note more code points have a mapping, not sure exactly what the purpose was; it might be that the standard also has font requirements and such
  392. # [12:49] <zcorpan> Hixie: why the readyState check for video resize event?
  393. # [12:49] <annevk> hsivonen: I have not tried to find out anything for -14 and -16, if only one browser did not support an encoding my assumption was that I should include it
  394. # [12:53] <annevk> hsivonen: so it seems gb18030 and gbk in the Encoding Standard are basically wrong
  395. # [12:54] <annevk> hsivonen: I will figure out how to fix that I suppose :/
  396. # [12:58] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  397. # [13:00] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: tobie)
  398. # [13:02] <zcorpan> Hixie: nm
  399. # [13:03] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  400. # [13:20] <zcorpan> css 'binding' is basically obsolete, right?
  401. # [13:30] <annevk> marcosc: oh man, that thread
  402. # [13:31] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-74-73-238-8.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  403. # [13:33] * Joins: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@94.137.124.2)
  404. # [13:34] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  405. # [13:36] * Quits: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  406. # [13:36] * Joins: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be)
  407. # [13:40] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.10.c.fiberdirekt.net)
  408. # [13:41] * Quits: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  409. # [13:41] * Joins: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be)
  410. # [13:43] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  411. # [13:46] <gsnedders> darobin: I'm not sure I want to accept your pull requests. I'll merge them if it seems like people are actually going to implement them in browsers.
  412. # [13:47] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@acces1130.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
  413. # [13:50] <hsivonen> annevk: looking forward to finding out if we can get away with aliasing gbk to gb18030
  414. # [13:50] <hsivonen> Hixie: when you put gb18030 instead of gbk in the HTML spec, did you do research or did you just make an optimistic guess that that would work?
  415. # [13:51] <hsivonen> (in the HTML spec as the Simplified Chinese fallback encoding that is)
  416. # [13:51] <annevk> hsivonen: so I think that alias is not feasible unless those 25 code points turn out not to matter
  417. # [13:51] <annevk> hsivonen: well actually, given what Opera did for a long time maybe it is...
  418. # [13:57] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  419. # [14:00] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  420. # [14:03] * jorendorff_away is now known as jorendorff
  421. # [14:04] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  422. # [14:04] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@223.239.201.199) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  423. # [14:05] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com)
  424. # [14:05] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net)
  425. # [14:05] <hsivonen> So compared to ISO Greek, Windows Greek just bikesheds the position of Ά? why oh why?
  426. # [14:06] <annevk> What came first? ISO or Windows?
  427. # [14:06] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Swapping it with what? An undefined character?
  428. # [14:07] <annevk> Might as well have been the standardization committee that had a hatred for Microsoft
  429. # [14:08] <hsivonen> "this difference was instrumented in order to rectify the appearance of an early version of Microsoft Word for Windows in which the end-of-section symbol clashed with the "Greek capital alpha with acute" glyph"
  430. # [14:09] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:1400:6b6:b813:f8f5:a789:1b0d)
  431. # [14:09] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  432. # [14:11] <hsivonen> gsnedders: Windows Greek has a paragraph symbol where ISO Greek has capital alpha with acute
  433. # [14:12] <hsivonen> annevk: ISO Greek is 1987 and a copy of a Greek standard from 1986
  434. # [14:12] <hsivonen> annevk: dunno when Windows got Greek support
  435. # [14:14] <annevk> hsivonen: seems like Microsoft hated ISO then :/
  436. # [14:16] <darobin> gsnedders: I don't expect you to merge them before you have more evidence
  437. # [14:17] <gsnedders> darobin: Okay, good to know we're on the same page :)
  438. # [14:17] <darobin> I mean, feel free to if you want to, but there's a reason I marked them as "merge with caution"
  439. # [14:17] <darobin> gsnedders: I'm landing this because input from implementers is that this is what they plan to do, but as always I'll believe that when I've seen it :)
  440. # [14:18] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
  441. # [14:18] <gsnedders> darobin: Are there any bugs anywhere for it?
  442. # [14:20] <darobin> gsnedders: not on the parsing changes but the use cases were brought up from https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20115 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20114
  443. # [14:20] <gsnedders> darobin: I meant for implementors
  444. # [14:21] <darobin> ah, sorry
  445. # [14:22] * Quits: MichielDeWilde (~michielde@78-21-133-221.access.telenet.be)
  446. # [14:22] <darobin> gsnedders: there's https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33339 if you want to read long history; I'm not aware of others
  447. # [14:22] <gsnedders> (I don't care so much about why it's there as whether I should implement it :P)
  448. # [14:22] <darobin> gsnedders: my understanding was that WebKit wanted a bug when this came into the spec, so as to have a link
  449. # [14:22] <darobin> I'll be making sure that happens
  450. # [14:23] <darobin> and I can't give you a bug for IE though the input was positive :)
  451. # [14:23] <darobin> I don't know about Blink
  452. # [14:23] * Quits: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
  453. # [14:23] <darobin> gsnedders: I wouldn't bother taking the PRs yet, just leave them open and apply when something happens
  454. # [14:23] <gsnedders> Wow, I actually remember my login details for Bugzilla. :)
  455. # [14:24] <darobin> *normally* the changes I made to html5lib ought to be enough
  456. # [14:24] <gsnedders> darobin: BTW, you might want to add Ruby to the sanitizer whitelists — it should be safe, no?
  457. # [14:24] <darobin> mmm, that's a good point
  458. # [14:24] <gsnedders> On the other hand, my near total rewrite of the sanitizer will probably land before this :P
  459. # [14:25] <gsnedders> darobin: Can you comment as much on the bug, and explicitly say about waiting for impls for html5lib-tests (not everyone with reviewer access there so closely follows both WHATWG/W3C specs).
  460. # [14:26] <gsnedders> (I have an essay to somehow finish in the next 30 minutes or so.)
  461. # [14:26] <darobin> I was thinking of my own sanitiser anyway ;)
  462. # [14:26] <darobin> go finish your essay, I'll add the comments
  463. # [14:26] <gsnedders> (I'm not going to finish it. I've been ill for weeks, been granted maximum extension, and I'm still nearly 1000 words under min word count)
  464. # [14:27] <darobin> sorry to hear you've been ill
  465. # [14:27] <darobin> if you close IRC that just a little bit over a word every two seconds...
  466. # [14:28] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  467. # [14:28] <gsnedders> :)
  468. # [14:28] <gsnedders> I'm not sure I can write more without reading more papers to actually be able to cite anything more.
  469. # [14:29] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com)
  470. # [14:30] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  471. # [14:31] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  472. # [14:33] <darobin> thanks, hober, really, for bikeshedding straight from the top of a thread
  473. # [14:38] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  474. # [14:39] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  475. # [14:42] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63)
  476. # [14:42] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  477. # [14:42] <annevk> hsivonen: so it turns out they actually changed the mapping in gb18030 around 2005
  478. # [14:42] <annevk> hsivonen: ftp://ftp.oreilly.com/pub/examples/nutshell/cjkv/pdf/GB18030_Summary.pdf has some background story
  479. # [14:43] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  480. # [14:44] * Joins: tj_vantoll1 (~Adium@c-68-84-189-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
  481. # [14:45] <annevk> Pretty interesting: "We will later see that both the code space and the character repertoire of GBK create the foundation for the almost completely compatible code space of GB 18030. In fact, there is text in the standard indicating that GB 18030 (the “standard”) is meant to replace (代替 daiti) GBK (the “specification”)."
  482. # [14:46] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:1400:6b6:b813:f8f5:a789:1b0d) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  483. # [14:48] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  484. # [14:48] <annevk> "Update: Actually, a third large gap can be found in the re-released mapping data now that is caused by the removal of the Unicode Surrogate code points (U+d800 through U+dfff) from the four-byte mapping area."
  485. # [14:48] <annevk> Whoa, so initially gb18030 covered more than Unicode scalar values
  486. # [14:48] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se)
  487. # [14:50] * Joins: decotii (~decotii@hq.croscon.com)
  488. # [14:50] * Joins: Ir1sh (~Ir1sh@89.100.254.231)
  489. # [14:50] <annevk> Kinda of like UCS-4, but more restricted in range...
  490. # [14:51] <annevk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-32 does not even mention it excludes surrogates...
  491. # [14:53] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net)
  492. # [14:57] <annevk> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781565922242.do needs a second edition to tell the story of gb18030
  493. # [14:57] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  494. # [14:58] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  495. # [15:01] * jorendorff is now known as jorendorff_away
  496. # [15:01] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  497. # [15:06] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  498. # [15:07] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  499. # [15:08] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi)
  500. # [15:19] * Quits: Ir1sh (~Ir1sh@89.100.254.231) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  501. # [15:21] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.10.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  502. # [15:24] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  503. # [15:24] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  504. # [15:32] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
  505. # [15:35] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
  506. # [15:36] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
  507. # [15:36] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.181) (Quit: adactio)
  508. # [15:37] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  509. # [15:40] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net)
  510. # [15:40] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  511. # [15:42] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  512. # [15:43] * Quits: rektide (~rektide@eldergods.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  513. # [15:43] * Joins: rektide (~rektide@eldergods.com)
  514. # [15:44] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  515. # [15:46] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  516. # [15:47] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  517. # [15:53] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  518. # [15:55] * Joins: encryptd_fractal (~mfrawley@66-188-99-174.static.ftbg.wi.charter.com)
  519. # [15:58] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  520. # [15:59] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  521. # [16:00] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  522. # [16:02] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  523. # [16:02] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  524. # [16:03] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  525. # [16:07] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  526. # [16:08] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  527. # [16:14] <annevk> The gb18030 situation might be less worse than expected. Extreme Decemberfest might hold me back in fixing it today though
  528. # [16:14] <annevk> s/worse/bad/
  529. # [16:14] <jgraham> Ms2ger: -webkit-? Really
  530. # [16:14] * jgraham is disappointed :p
  531. # [16:15] <annevk> jgraham: in Ms2ger or Chinese encodings?
  532. # [16:15] <jgraham> Both?
  533. # [16:16] <Ms2ger> jgraham, I did what now?
  534. # [16:16] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  535. # [16:16] <jgraham> meter::-webkit-meter-horizontal-bar and more gunk
  536. # [16:16] <Ms2ger> Oh, that
  537. # [16:16] <Ms2ger> I was young :)
  538. # [16:17] <annevk> Ms2ger: that phrase is reserved for us
  539. # [16:21] * Joins: bzalasky (~bzalasky@c-67-188-211-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  540. # [16:27] * jorendorff_away is now known as jorendorff
  541. # [16:27] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  542. # [16:29] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  543. # [16:31] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  544. # [16:32] * MikeSmith hums "whatever happened to the teenage dream?"
  545. # [16:33] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@156.39.10.22)
  546. # [16:33] * Joins: Ir1sh (~Ir1sh@89.100.254.231)
  547. # [16:34] * Joins: sankha93 (~Instantbi@fsf/emeritus/sankha93)
  548. # [16:35] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-74-73-238-8.nyc.res.rr.com)
  549. # [16:35] * Quits: sankha93 (~Instantbi@fsf/emeritus/sankha93) (Remote host closed the connection)
  550. # [16:35] * Joins: sankha93 (~Instantbi@fsf/emeritus/sankha93)
  551. # [16:35] * Quits: sankha93 (~Instantbi@fsf/emeritus/sankha93) (Client Quit)
  552. # [16:36] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  553. # [16:39] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  554. # [16:41] * Joins: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-166-14.bflony.fios.verizon.net)
  555. # [16:43] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  556. # [16:45] * Quits: mven_ (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  557. # [16:48] * Quits: ricea (~ricea@2401:fa00:4:1000:b6b5:2fff:feca:47f8) (Quit: Leaving.)
  558. # [16:53] * Quits: ^esc (~esc-ape@178-165-128-130.dyn.orange.at) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  559. # [16:53] * Quits: Ir1sh (~Ir1sh@89.100.254.231) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  560. # [16:53] <gsnedders> annevk: Bah, you're old!
  561. # [16:53] * Joins: Ir1sh (~Ir1sh@89.100.254.231)
  562. # [16:53] * Joins: seventh (seventh@69.80.107.186)
  563. # [16:54] * Quits: rego (~rego@231.193.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  564. # [16:57] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  565. # [16:59] * Quits: bzalasky (~bzalasky@c-67-188-211-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  566. # [16:59] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@156.39.10.22) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-7.1450hg.fc19 [XULRunner 25.0/20131030081700])
  567. # [17:00] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  568. # [17:03] * Joins: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-rwlclbiygvaeqbwa)
  569. # [17:03] * Quits: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-rwlclbiygvaeqbwa) (Changing host)
  570. # [17:03] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  571. # [17:05] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  572. # [17:09] * Quits: hayato (uid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lkertumizaniltap) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  573. # [17:09] * Quits: falken_ (uid20729@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skzvxmykokkjzaar) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  574. # [17:10] * Joins: falken_ (uid20729@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qoslxtzzfmjhsulu)
  575. # [17:10] * Joins: hayato (uid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rlxqewrlkascwgwk)
  576. # [17:11] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@108.59.8.165) (Remote host closed the connection)
  577. # [17:17] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  578. # [17:18] * Joins: foxtrotwhiskey (~foxtrotwh@c-98-225-154-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  579. # [17:20] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  580. # [17:23] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  581. # [17:24] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  582. # [17:25] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@108.59.8.165)
  583. # [17:25] * Quits: seventh (seventh@69.80.107.186) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  584. # [17:27] * Joins: kuatsure (~kuatsure@208.102.118.1)
  585. # [17:30] * Joins: darobin_ (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  586. # [17:30] * Quits: lokling (~quassel@quassel.woboq.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  587. # [17:30] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  588. # [17:31] * Joins: tobie_ (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net)
  589. # [17:32] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@5469E6D4.cm-12-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  590. # [17:32] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@5469E6D4.cm-12-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  591. # [17:32] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  592. # [17:32] * Joins: lokling (~quassel@quassel.woboq.de)
  593. # [17:33] * Joins: kuatsure_ (~kuatsure@208.102.118.1)
  594. # [17:33] * Quits: kuatsure (~kuatsure@208.102.118.1) (*.net *.split)
  595. # [17:34] * Quits: foxtrotwhiskey (~foxtrotwh@c-98-225-154-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
  596. # [17:34] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net) (*.net *.split)
  597. # [17:34] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (*.net *.split)
  598. # [17:34] * Quits: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers) (*.net *.split)
  599. # [17:34] * Quits: hendry (~hendry@sg.webconverger.com) (*.net *.split)
  600. # [17:34] * Quits: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.121.65) (*.net *.split)
  601. # [17:34] * kuatsure_ is now known as kuatsure
  602. # [17:35] * Joins: foxtrotwhiskey (~foxtrotwh@c-98-225-154-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  603. # [17:35] * Joins: hendry (~hendry@sg.webconverger.com)
  604. # [17:35] * Joins: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.121.65)
  605. # [17:36] * Joins: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers)
  606. # [17:39] * Joins: jtcranme1 (~jcranmer@ltsp2.csl.tjhsst.edu)
  607. # [17:40] * tobie_ is now known as tobie
  608. # [17:40] * Quits: jtcranmer (~jcranmer@ltsp2.csl.tjhsst.edu) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  609. # [17:40] * Joins: seventh (seventh@206.222.178.203)
  610. # [17:40] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Excess Flood)
  611. # [17:41] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  612. # [17:41] * Quits: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xeqtwifkeeapmjtj) (Ping timeout: 338 seconds)
  613. # [17:41] * Joins: hendry_ (~hendry@sg.webconverger.com)
  614. # [17:41] * Joins: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dyfyvkgsaybmxrny)
  615. # [17:46] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  616. # [17:46] * Quits: foxtrotwhiskey (~foxtrotwh@c-98-225-154-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
  617. # [17:46] * Quits: hendry (~hendry@sg.webconverger.com) (*.net *.split)
  618. # [17:46] * Quits: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.121.65) (*.net *.split)
  619. # [17:46] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  620. # [17:47] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@c-50-148-162-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  621. # [17:47] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Read error: No route to host)
  622. # [17:48] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  623. # [17:51] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
  624. # [17:51] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  625. # [17:51] * Joins: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.121.65)
  626. # [17:54] * Joins: paxcoder (~paxcoder@unaffiliated/paxcoder)
  627. # [17:54] <paxcoder> keygen tag ooooh yeaaah
  628. # [17:57] * Quits: darobin_ (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  629. # [17:59] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi)
  630. # [18:00] * Joins: ^esc (~esc-ape@77.119.129.127.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  631. # [18:00] * hendry_ is now known as hendry
  632. # [18:01] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  633. # [18:05] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  634. # [18:05] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@108.59.8.165) (Quit: Back to real life!)
  635. # [18:06] <Hixie> hsivonen: re gb18030, the comment in the spec for that line says "Windows Vista, Chrome, and Firefox agreed", so it was part of the research you had me do with the big table from vista and chrome and firefox data
  636. # [18:06] * Joins: bzalasky (~bzalasky@c-67-188-211-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  637. # [18:06] * Quits: bzalasky (~bzalasky@c-67-188-211-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  638. # [18:06] <Hixie> hsivonen: oh, nevermind
  639. # [18:07] <Hixie> hsivonen: there's a source comment at the top of that section that says "[assumption:] Windows-936 is a basically a subset of GBK which is basically a subset of GB18030 (supported by wikipedia)"
  640. # [18:07] * Quits: Hixie (~ianh@178.255.149.100) (Quit: brb)
  641. # [18:07] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  642. # [18:07] * Joins: Hixie (~ianh@178.255.149.100)
  643. # [18:08] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  644. # [18:11] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:307e:cbae:9e1a:bbe7)
  645. # [18:17] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
  646. # [18:17] * Joins: mven (~mven@169.241.49.227)
  647. # [18:19] * Quits: kuatsure (~kuatsure@208.102.118.1) (Quit: zzz)
  648. # [18:20] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: tobie)
  649. # [18:22] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194) (Quit: Leaving.)
  650. # [18:25] * Joins: membrane_ (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  651. # [18:25] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  652. # [18:27] * Joins: sgalineau (~sylvaing@192.150.22.5)
  653. # [18:27] * Joins: Maurice (~copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  654. # [18:30] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  655. # [18:30] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  656. # [18:39] * Quits: membrane_ (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  657. # [18:39] * Joins: frozenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice)
  658. # [18:39] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
  659. # [18:40] * Joins: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-udqqksjbsjeebudt)
  660. # [18:46] * Joins: alecf__ (alecf@nat/google/x-wxrmhxqyxhmqurrc)
  661. # [18:46] * Quits: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-udqqksjbsjeebudt) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  662. # [18:49] <paxcoder> can someone explain what the challenge (attribute) is in the keygen tag?
  663. # [18:54] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net)
  664. # [18:56] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  665. # [18:57] <Hixie> paxcoder: the sum total of my understanding of keygen is in the spec :-(
  666. # [18:57] <Hixie> paxcoder: i recommend looking up SignedPublicKeyAndChallenge in [X690]
  667. # [18:59] <Ms2ger> paxcoder, you realize that this is something netscape came up with in the nineties? :)
  668. # [18:59] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@199.36.244.11)
  669. # [19:00] <paxcoder> Hixie, thanks... i'm still clueless though :-P
  670. # [19:00] <paxcoder> Ms2ger, i don't, but it rocks
  671. # [19:00] * Joins: rdebeasi (~rdebeasi@datacenter.ef.com)
  672. # [19:01] <paxcoder> though i guess it doesn't prevent MITM so it doesn't rock that much.
  673. # [19:01] * Quits: rdebeasi (~rdebeasi@datacenter.ef.com) (Client Quit)
  674. # [19:01] <Hixie> paxcoder: what's the underlying problem you're trying to solve?
  675. # [19:01] * Joins: rdebeasi (~rdebeasi@datacenter.ef.com)
  676. # [19:01] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  677. # [19:01] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  678. # [19:02] <paxcoder> Hixie, nothing, i'm just going over HTML5 tags I don't know, and I'm wondering what a challenge is. But my hope is to get rid of CAs
  679. # [19:02] <paxcoder> (though I'm not sure if that's realistic)
  680. # [19:02] <Hixie> aah
  681. # [19:03] <Hixie> well if you manage to find a way to get rid of CAs, lots of people would be very happy (and lots very unhappy, but that's another story)
  682. # [19:03] <paxcoder> who'd be unhappy?
  683. # [19:03] <Hixie> the CAs, mainly
  684. # [19:03] <paxcoder> doesn't diffie-hellman get rid of them though?
  685. # [19:04] <Hixie> still need some way to prove identity
  686. # [19:04] <Hixie> and the CAs are the only way we have to do that so far
  687. # [19:04] <paxcoder> darnit
  688. # [19:06] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  689. # [19:08] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  690. # [19:08] <Hixie> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24094 wtf
  691. # [19:08] <Hixie> someone went to the multipage spec's elements.html page
  692. # [19:08] <Hixie> then went to the namespaces.html page
  693. # [19:08] <Hixie> then clicked on the svg namespace
  694. # [19:09] <Hixie> then submitted the comment "i like may you install for the video html"
  695. # [19:09] <Hixie> WHAT ARE YOU DOING
  696. # [19:10] <Hixie> it's an African IP. So on the one hand, yay, we're getting feedback from Africa, I keep saying that using e-mail and Web is the way to do that and that f2fs and telecons disenfranchise many parts of the world including probably much of africa.
  697. # [19:10] <Hixie> but on the other hand, what did they mean???
  698. # [19:10] <TabAtkins> That doesn't even English, so just close as invalid.
  699. # [19:11] <TabAtkins> Like, there's no way to interpret it into a meaningful sentence.
  700. # [19:11] <Hixie> i usually close those as NEEDSINFO
  701. # [19:11] <Hixie> but yeah
  702. # [19:11] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  703. # [19:11] <Hixie> (i reserve INVALID for things like actual obvious spam)
  704. # [19:15] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  705. # [19:16] * Joins: willob (~willob@173-166-99-161-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  706. # [19:16] * Joins: will-ob (~willob@173-166-99-161-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  707. # [19:23] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  708. # [19:32] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net)
  709. # [19:33] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-vpsgbmdcknofahyo)
  710. # [19:34] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  711. # [19:35] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  712. # [19:44] <TabAtkins> Augh, good lord, talking on the SVG ml is almost impossible at times, with all the top-quoting and HTML-emailling. >_<
  713. # [19:45] <Ms2ger> At least it's not SVG-emailing
  714. # [19:49] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  715. # [19:50] * jtcranme1 is now known as jtcranmer
  716. # [19:50] <TabAtkins> Thank jeebus for that.
  717. # [19:50] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@199.36.244.11) (Quit: boarding for DTW, back later)
  718. # [19:54] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  719. # [19:57] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  720. # [19:57] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  721. # [20:00] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-74-73-238-8.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  722. # [20:01] * Quits: alecf__ (alecf@nat/google/x-wxrmhxqyxhmqurrc) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  723. # [20:01] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  724. # [20:01] * Joins: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-wairvcfgrlvcpfyf)
  725. # [20:02] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  726. # [20:05] * Quits: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  727. # [20:05] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  728. # [20:06] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  729. # [20:08] * Quits: rdebeasi (~rdebeasi@datacenter.ef.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  730. # [20:08] * Joins: rdebeasi (~rdebeasi@datacenter.ef.com)
  731. # [20:12] * Quits: felipeduardo_ (~felipedua@r253-pw-corumbatai.ibys.com.br) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  732. # [20:17] * Quits: Benvie_ (~bbenvie@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  733. # [20:17] * Joins: Benvie (~bbenvie@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  734. # [20:22] <jamesr__> http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/compositing-1/#canvascompositingandblending - is that intended to add new values to 2d canvas?
  735. # [20:23] <Ms2ger> There's been some discussion on www-style
  736. # [20:23] <Ms2ger> Mostly coming down to "Are you high?"
  737. # [20:24] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  738. # [20:24] <jamesr__> yes, i've been posting a lot of that. i'm trying to figure out if this is different from the previous state or not
  739. # [20:25] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  740. # [20:26] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net)
  741. # [20:28] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  742. # [20:33] <Hixie> jamesr__: i hope to defer to that spec eventually,
  743. # [20:34] <Hixie> jamesr__: but hopefully not until it's sane
  744. # [20:34] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net)
  745. # [20:35] * Quits: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  746. # [20:35] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  747. # [20:37] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  748. # [20:38] <jamesr__> it's not
  749. # [20:39] <jamesr__> most of the definitions are in sections marked non-normative
  750. # [20:39] <jamesr__> including all of the values referenced in the globalCompositeOperation section
  751. # [20:41] <jamesr__> even the css blend mode definitions refer to keywords defined in sections marked non-normative
  752. # [20:41] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.24.64e950153c80.01b11587a2c.afb.bredband2.com)
  753. # [20:41] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  754. # [20:41] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-vpsgbmdcknofahyo) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
  755. # [20:42] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  756. # [20:42] * jamesr__ is really curious how this thing made it almost to CR
  757. # [20:42] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:307e:cbae:9e1a:bbe7) (Quit: ap)
  758. # [20:42] <Ms2ger> Nobody's watching?
  759. # [20:43] <jamesr__> s'pose
  760. # [20:43] * Joins: malaclyps (~Danny@unaffiliated/malaclyps)
  761. # [20:46] <Hixie> CR doesn't mean much...
  762. # [20:46] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-ipywicwzhztobqcm)
  763. # [20:46] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:5856:abf1:5676:7cb1)
  764. # [20:51] * Joins: kuatsure (~kuatsure@208.102.118.1)
  765. # [20:51] * Quits: kuatsure (~kuatsure@208.102.118.1) (Client Quit)
  766. # [20:56] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  767. # [20:56] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@64-46-23-103.dyn.novuscom.net)
  768. # [20:59] <paxcoder> Hixie, I think the only thing we can say when faced with the problem of identity and central authorities is: WOT?
  769. # [20:59] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  770. # [20:59] <paxcoder> but heck, I'm skeptical about the Web of trust too.
  771. # [21:01] <paxcoder> Degrees of separation and chinese whispers.
  772. # [21:01] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117)
  773. # [21:01] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  774. # [21:01] <paxcoder> Actually, first thing only. The whispers are the work of Mallroy.
  775. # [21:02] <paxcoder> i'm rambling, bye :-)
  776. # [21:02] * Quits: paxcoder (~paxcoder@unaffiliated/paxcoder) (Quit: Leaving)
  777. # [21:03] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  778. # [21:07] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  779. # [21:08] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: tobie)
  780. # [21:13] <TabAtkins> Sigh, I knew last time I reviewed Compositing that it was unreadable. I need to rewrite it.
  781. # [21:14] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  782. # [21:16] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net)
  783. # [21:21] * Quits: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  784. # [21:25] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  785. # [21:25] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-1-14.telstraclear.net)
  786. # [21:31] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  787. # [21:32] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  788. # [21:33] * Joins: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
  789. # [21:40] * Quits: seventh (seventh@206.222.178.203) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  790. # [21:40] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  791. # [21:41] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  792. # [21:41] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@99-204-11-205.pools.spcsdns.net)
  793. # [21:44] <zcorpan> what does <input type=file> do if you delete the selected file?
  794. # [21:48] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@99-204-11-205.pools.spcsdns.net) (Quit: tantek)
  795. # [21:52] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
  796. # [21:53] * Quits: mven (~mven@169.241.49.227) (Remote host closed the connection)
  797. # [21:53] * Quits: frozenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice) (Remote host closed the connection)
  798. # [21:55] * Joins: mven (~mven@169.241.49.227)
  799. # [22:01] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  800. # [22:02] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  801. # [22:03] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  802. # [22:06] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  803. # [22:07] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  804. # [22:08] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  805. # [22:16] <Hixie> zcorpan: ideally, once you've selected it, the browser makes a copy of it, so that you can't delete it
  806. # [22:17] <Hixie> (a hardlink, obviously, not a real copy, that would be way too inefficient for big files)
  807. # [22:18] <zcorpan> Hixie: where does that leave Blob.close()? :-)
  808. # [22:18] <zewt> well, if the user selects a file and then deletes it, they may well expect that it means the browser can't access it either
  809. # [22:18] <zewt> the website, rather
  810. # [22:19] * Quits: mven (~mven@169.241.49.227) (Remote host closed the connection)
  811. # [22:20] * Joins: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com)
  812. # [22:20] <zewt> it also depends on what the behavior is when you select a file and then modify it: if you revoke access if the mtime changes (eg. selecting a file means "you have access to the file in this state, but not future states") then that works, but if it does mean to give access to changes too, then a hardlink will sometimes break that
  813. # [22:20] <zewt> (when programs save over files by creating a new file then renaming over the old one)
  814. # [22:23] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  815. # [22:28] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117) (Quit: weinig)
  816. # [22:28] * ojan is now known as ojan_away
  817. # [22:30] * Quits: membrane (~textual@62.57.156.24.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  818. # [22:36] * Quits: malaclyps (~Danny@unaffiliated/malaclyps) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  819. # [22:40] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117)
  820. # [22:45] <Ms2ger> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook-help/print-emails-showing-names-on-the-bcc-line-HA102919777.aspx
  821. # [22:45] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  822. # [22:46] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net)
  823. # [22:46] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  824. # [22:47] * Joins: malaclyps (~Danny@unaffiliated/malaclyps)
  825. # [22:50] * Quits: rdebeasi (~rdebeasi@datacenter.ef.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  826. # [22:51] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@c-50-148-162-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: bholley)
  827. # [22:54] * Joins: dekiss (~dekiss@77.28.11.4)
  828. # [22:54] <dekiss> guys
  829. # [22:54] <dekiss> do you support webgl ?
  830. # [22:55] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  831. # [22:59] * Quits: tj_vantoll1 (~Adium@c-68-84-189-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  832. # [23:00] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host86-156-113-237.range86-156.btcentralplus.com)
  833. # [23:00] * Joins: seventh (seventh@64.9.157.76)
  834. # [23:02] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  835. # [23:02] <Hixie> zcorpan: dunno
  836. # [23:03] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  837. # [23:03] <Hixie> zcorpan: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24089 btw
  838. # [23:04] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
  839. # [23:07] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  840. # [23:08] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  841. # [23:08] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@col74-1-88-183-112-72.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: tobie)
  842. # [23:09] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  843. # [23:09] * Quits: will-ob (~willob@173-166-99-161-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  844. # [23:10] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  845. # [23:10] <zcorpan> Hixie: see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23968
  846. # [23:10] * Quits: willob (~willob@173-166-99-161-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  847. # [23:11] <Hixie> zcorpan: what CSS does is somewhat orthogonal, since it would override HTML on this
  848. # [23:11] <Hixie> the text in HTML is only really relevant in the hypothetical case of a language that doesn't specify what to do, yes supports <style>
  849. # [23:11] <Hixie> the only case i can think of is JSSS
  850. # [23:11] <Hixie> and nobody supports that anyway nowadays
  851. # [23:12] <zcorpan> Hixie: oh. well in that case i don't care
  852. # [23:12] <zcorpan> Hixie: i care about css :-)
  853. # [23:12] <Hixie> k :-)
  854. # [23:12] <Hixie> me too, i was a bit surprised by your bug :-)
  855. # [23:12] <Hixie> anyway, that css bug says it should likely not use utf-8 either
  856. # [23:13] <Hixie> (your last comment)
  857. # [23:13] <Hixie> the html spec as written says to use the doc encoding
  858. # [23:14] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117) (Quit: weinig)
  859. # [23:16] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117)
  860. # [23:18] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.24.64e950153c80.01b11587a2c.afb.bredband2.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  861. # [23:18] <zcorpan> yeah
  862. # [23:19] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.24.64e950153c80.01b11587a2c.afb.bredband2.com)
  863. # [23:25] * Joins: fischman (fischman@nat/google/x-dqnztsdvgwdcdnuh)
  864. # [23:26] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  865. # [23:27] <fischman> good afternoon; is there policy about attributes vs. events? E.g. media elements have a durationchange event, but they do not have an ondurationchange attribute, which MediaController elements _do_ have. Is it generally expected that on each element that has an event foo there will be a corresponding onfoo attribute, or is it a case-by-case basis, according to what's in the spec? (concretely: I'm wondering whether my blink CL adding the
  866. # [23:27] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  867. # [23:28] <zcorpan> fischman: onfoo attributes in html are generally available on *all* html elements *and* on the document *and* on window
  868. # [23:29] <zcorpan> fischman: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/webappapis.html#event-handlers-on-elements,-document-objects,-and-window-objects
  869. # [23:31] <Hixie> woah, onresize isn't on elements
  870. # [23:31] <Hixie> let me fix that
  871. # [23:31] <zcorpan> fischman: MediaController isn't an element
  872. # [23:31] * Joins: mven (~mven@169.241.49.227)
  873. # [23:31] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  874. # [23:31] <dekiss> is the ewebgl part of html5?
  875. # [23:32] <dekiss> webgl*
  876. # [23:32] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  877. # [23:32] <Hixie> dekiss: depends what you mean by that exactly
  878. # [23:32] <dekiss> if no why ou don't make it guys
  879. # [23:32] <dekiss> 3d canvas
  880. # [23:32] <dekiss> webgl
  881. # [23:33] <dekiss> Vendors may define experimental contexts using the syntax vendorname-context, for example, moz-3d.
  882. # [23:33] <dekiss> † For example, the "webgl" value in the case of a user agent having exhausted the graphics hardware's abilities and having no software fallback implementation.
  883. # [23:33] <dekiss> ahh I see it is
  884. # [23:34] <Hixie> i have no idea what you are asking
  885. # [23:34] <Hixie> i actually have less of an idea now than i did when you first asked your question :-)
  886. # [23:35] <fischman> zcorpan: thanks. Is there a backstory for why this is so? I.e. what does it _mean_ for a <form> (say) element to have a non-null onseeking attribute set?
  887. # [23:35] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117) (Quit: weinig)
  888. # [23:35] <Hixie> fischman: just means it has an event handler
  889. # [23:35] <fischman> Hixie: that can never fire?
  890. # [23:35] <Hixie> it can fire whenever such an event is dispatched at the element in question
  891. # [23:35] <Hixie> or, for bubbling events, any of its descendants
  892. # [23:36] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117)
  893. # [23:36] <Hixie> it's just like addEventListener(), more or less
  894. # [23:36] <fischman> Hixie: ah, bubbling is the thing I was forgetting.
  895. # [23:36] <Hixie> you can also dispatch events manually
  896. # [23:36] <Hixie> dispatchEvent()
  897. # [23:36] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63) (Remote host closed the connection)
  898. # [23:36] <fischman> Hixie: thanks for the clarifications (and for the event! :))
  899. # [23:37] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63)
  900. # [23:37] <zcorpan> fischman: as for the why, i think it was because it's simpler to implement
  901. # [23:38] <fischman> zcorpan: yeah, makes sense in a world where events aren't tied to elements (as bubbling and generic dispatchEvent() are).
  902. # [23:39] * zcorpan is low on battery. both in laptop and brain
  903. # [23:39] <zcorpan> nn
  904. # [23:39] <smaug____> events aren't tied to elements
  905. # [23:40] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  906. # [23:40] * Joins: jensnockert_ (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.24.64e950153c80.01b11587a2c.afb.bredband2.com)
  907. # [23:41] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@101.165.85.63) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  908. # [23:42] <dekiss> Hixie sorry
  909. # [23:42] <dekiss> is the webgl part of the html5 specifications ?
  910. # [23:42] <dekiss> or any official w3c or whatwg specification
  911. # [23:42] <dekiss> omg
  912. # [23:43] <dekiss> ignore this please :)))) <dekiss> † For example, the "webgl" value in the case of a user agent having exhausted the graphics hardware's abilities and having no software fallback implementation.
  913. # [23:43] <dekiss> this was wrong paste :)
  914. # [23:43] * Quits: fischman (fischman@nat/google/x-dqnztsdvgwdcdnuh) (Quit: leaving)
  915. # [23:43] <Hixie> what do you mean by "part of"?
  916. # [23:43] <dekiss> well.......
  917. # [23:43] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.24.64e950153c80.01b11587a2c.afb.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  918. # [23:43] <dekiss> part of hhh
  919. # [23:43] <dekiss> is tehre anything about webgl I am seeing something but don't udnertand :S
  920. # [23:43] <Hixie> do you mean, "is the specification of the webgl api published in the same document as the specification of the HTMLCanvasElement API?"
  921. # [23:43] <dekiss> let me check again
  922. # [23:44] <dekiss> no no
  923. # [23:44] <dekiss> I see webgl is mentioned in webgl specs
  924. # [23:44] <dekiss> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html here exactly
  925. # [23:45] <dekiss> ah lol I got confused so yeah Vendors may define experimental contexts using the syntax vendorname-context, for example, moz-3d.
  926. # [23:45] <dekiss> † For example, the "webgl" value in the case of a user agent having exhausted the graphics hardware's abilities and having no software fallback implementation.
  927. # [23:45] <dekiss> this I don't understand
  928. # [23:45] <dekiss> this is part of the html5 - canvas specification
  929. # [23:45] <Hixie> that's part of the html specification
  930. # [23:45] <Hixie> (html5 is dead, long live html)
  931. # [23:47] <dekiss> :)
  932. # [23:47] <dekiss> ye
  933. # [23:47] <dekiss> ok haha Hixie ^^
  934. # [23:47] <dekiss> YOu made that descision in 2011
  935. # [23:47] <dekiss> that was part of my courses haha
  936. # [23:49] <dekiss> Hixie, like or not people, I am pretty sure webgl is the future of the web :)
  937. # [23:49] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.117) (Quit: weinig)
  938. # [23:51] <dekiss> peopel liek it because looks awesome, developers liek it because it is awesome and it pays 150$.hour :)
  939. # [23:51] <dekiss> 150$/hour
  940. # [23:57] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  941. # Session Close: Sat Dec 14 00:00:00 2013

The end :)