/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-04-07 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  211. # [11:08] <zcorpan> jgraham_: the chocolate was very nice. haven't had anything quite like it before. much taste. such flavour. or as i said to jenni, bra fräs
  212. # [11:08] * Ms2ger wonders which
  213. # [11:09] <zcorpan> http://marouchocolate.com/post/58397164815/products 80%
  214. # [11:12] <jgraham_> zcorpan: Excellent :)
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  271. # [15:47] <SimonSapin> http://w3c.github.io/webcomponents/spec/custom/#concepts links for NCName to a 1999 spec that’s been updated twice since, and the new definition looks different. Is this deliberate?
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  274. # [15:57] <zewt> heh, someone posting to mongodb-user with an <img> containing a gigantic data: url
  275. # [15:57] <zewt> i wonder if he got that from "copy image location" on a canvas, that's what firefox did last i checked
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  301. # [16:47] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Oh, sorry, it was 3e that updated NCName with a semantic change. I forgot the timing of the changes. :)
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  303. # [16:48] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: so, is webcomponents linking to 1e a good idea?
  304. # [16:49] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Is anyone using XML1.05e+XMLnames1.0e3? AFAIK Everyone still targets XML1.0e4 + XMLnames1.0e2
  305. # [16:50] <SimonSapin> I have no idea
  306. # [16:50] <gsnedders> AFAIK no browser has wanted to impl the changes in XML1.05e
  307. # [16:50] <Ms2ger> Maybe Servo accidentally
  308. # [16:50] <jgraham> gsnedders: annevk suggested that libxml is 5th edition and Chrome blindly imports it
  309. # [16:50] <gsnedders> Even though everyone constantly updates the list of what names are valid in JS identifiers
  310. # [16:51] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: How can I and other people working on Servo can find out about "everyone agrees" besides asking you?
  311. # [16:51] <jgraham> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=501837
  312. # [16:51] <gsnedders> jgraham: libxml2 is 5th ed, yes, but has a flag for 4th ed, dunno if Chrome sets it
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  314. # [16:52] <gsnedders> I don't get why people are willing to change the JS syntax through Unicode updates but not XML.
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  316. # [16:53] <Ms2ger> Other people
  317. # [16:54] <gsnedders> I know. But the people objecting to XML changes typically concern themselves with all of the web platform, inc. JS.
  318. # [16:55] <Ms2ger> Fighting tc39 is hard
  319. # [16:55] <gsnedders> Sure, but why follow TC39 and ignore XML Core WG?
  320. # [16:56] <gsnedders> Difficulty of fighting is irrelevant when you're willing to ignore specs.
  321. # [16:57] <Ms2ger> I guess presence of JS engineers who are willing to follow tc39
  322. # [16:57] <zcorpan> i think upgrading to 5ed presented difficulties because different set of tools make assumptions, so you need to get all of them upgraded which is hard. js doesn't have that so much
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  360. # [18:01] <Domenic_> why is XML relevant? I assume this is about HTML syntax?
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  366. # [18:06] <jgraham> Domenic_: Because web components defines something in terms of xml-names
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  368. # [18:06] <gsnedders> But *why*?
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  370. # [18:07] <gsnedders> Because the DOM's creators limit themselves to XML-names?
  371. # [18:07] <jgraham> Oh one level deeper?
  372. # [18:07] <jgraham> No idea
  373. # [18:07] <gsnedders> That's the level I'm curious at.
  374. # [18:08] <jgraham> Doesn't it match HTML?
  375. # [18:08] <gsnedders> No, it doesn't.
  376. # [18:08] <gsnedders> <foo:bar:lol> is perfectly fine in HTML. Also even the local name "foo:bar".
  377. # [18:08] <Domenic_> seems bad
  378. # [18:08] <Hixie> ("perfectly fine" except for being non-conforming of course)
  379. # [18:09] <gsnedders> Hixie: At a parser level or just an unknown element level?
  380. # [18:09] <jgraham> Sure, I know the parser can deal
  381. # [18:09] <gsnedders> Because the latter doesn't really apply in the web components case, surely?
  382. # [18:09] <jgraham> I guess HTML has a closed list of elements
  383. # [18:09] <Hixie> ("foo:bar:lol" is not a known element, though i expect there's a cascade of other errors that would turn up at the same time)
  384. # [18:10] <jgraham> So that's not very relevant
  385. # [18:10] <SamB> and nobody is ever going to define an element of that name, either
  386. # [18:10] <Hixie> yeah, i'm not really sure what we should do for conformance of web components
  387. # [18:10] <gsnedders> Who cares that it isn't a known element when we're in the web components case, though?
  388. # [18:10] <jgraham> Anyway, making web-component names that you can't create through DOM APIs seems bad
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  390. # [18:10] <gsnedders> jgraham: Yeah, I presume this is the reason for the restriction
  391. # [18:11] <gsnedders> dglazkov: yt?
  392. # [18:12] <Hixie> it would be interesting if we could get something useful out of validators even when you use custom components
  393. # [18:12] <gsnedders> Indeed.
  394. # [18:13] <gsnedders> jgraham: But yeah, elements in HTML are closed set, attributes are open set.
  395. # [18:13] * SamB wonders what about 5e would make it important to upgrade all software at once -- does just unpinning Unicode really cause this?
  396. # [18:13] <Hixie> though really once you're using custom components you've pretty much sacrificed the ability for the web to work without css and js, especially if you don't have a fallback element...
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  408. # [18:28] <SimonSapin> http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-document-createelementns and other parts of the same spec link to http://www.w3.org/TR/xml/#NT-Name and http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-names/#NT-QName . Should that change if everyone agrees the latest editions are bad?
  409. # [18:28] <dglazkov> good morning, whatwg!
  410. # [18:29] <Ms2ger> Hmm, did someone change it...
  411. # [18:29] <dglazkov> SimonSapin: I just did what annevk said to do. Let me find the bug
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  413. # [18:31] <dglazkov> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20973
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  433. # [19:03] <mathiasbynens> zcorpan (if you read the logs): https://twitter.com/kizmarh/status/453215891908722689
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  443. # [19:22] <Hixie> hsivonen: yt?
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  450. # [19:30] <annevk> gsnedders: Chrome implements XML 1.0 5th edition afaict
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  628. # Session Close: Tue Apr 08 00:00:00 2014

The end :)