/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-05-05 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  14. # [00:43] <zewt> did someone really just say "we should do something we thought was a bad idea because the web has more competition now"
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  109. # [08:40] <a-ja> TabAtkins: ping (re: colors 4 nit)
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  111. # [08:47] <a-ja> TabAtkins: s/constrast/contrast/ in section 10.5 header (and in toc)
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  139. # [11:28] <Ms2ger> "Started work on the next version of http://HTML5test.com . First addition is [bits not in the HTML spec]"
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  152. # [12:37] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: you're making the common beginner mistake of misinterpreting that stylized ampersand character as a five
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  161. # [12:59] <smaug____> is there somewhere a list of css box types, or how to call them. inline, block, replaced inline etc
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  165. # [13:05] <smaug____> or is the whole concept of replaced still not properly defined
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  174. # [14:00] <IZh> It seems that on web-developer's version of the document visited links lasts only minutes on my Adnroid device. It's strange...
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  176. # [14:05] <zcorpan> jgraham: critic didn't like https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/959
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  183. # [14:31] <mathiasbynens> would it make sense to move `atob`/`btoa` to ECMAScript? http://esdiscuss.org/topic/native-base64-utility-methods → would be good if some WHATWG folks chimed in
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  192. # [14:52] <zcorpan> mathiasbynens: Claude Pache's attitude makes me sad and want to not read through the whole thing :-(
  193. # [14:53] <zcorpan> read anyway
  194. # [14:54] <mathiasbynens> zcorpan: tbh i don’t get his point at all. why can “raw binary strings” not be fed to atob? octets only go up to 0xFF
  195. # [14:55] <mathiasbynens> which is exatly what `atob` supports
  196. # [14:55] <zcorpan> whatever happened to base64 string <-> TypedArray ? i thought someone proposed extending atob/btoa to do that
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  198. # [14:56] <zewt> was that mixed in with the encoding api stuff? since you also want streaming for base64
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  200. # [14:56] <zewt> i forget where that left off (it's comparable to string encodings, but not quite a direct fit, iirc)
  201. # [14:57] <zcorpan> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2013-August/040364.html
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  203. # [15:01] <foolip> away
  204. # [15:01] <zewt> yeah, that morphed into "make it part of TextEncoder/TextDecoder" later in the thread, with the oddity that array->base64 is a "decoder" instead of an "encoder"
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  207. # [15:08] <zewt> seem to recall some discussion since then but can't think of where
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  231. # [16:20] <zcorpan> Hixie: can you have a look at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25542 ?
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  247. # [17:31] <Domenic_> High rest time isn't exposed in web workers!?
  248. # [17:31] <Domenic_> Where do I file that bug? (Who manages that spec?)
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  250. # [17:32] <Ms2ger> Hixie
  251. # [17:32] <zcorpan> there's high rest time? i want in!
  252. # [17:33] <zcorpan> could use some rest
  253. # [17:33] <Ms2ger> Oh, I was going to send zcorpan chocolate
  254. # [17:34] <zcorpan> oh, nice
  255. # [17:34] * Ms2ger should find his way to a post office
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  257. # [17:35] <darobin> Domenic_: you probably want to email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/
  258. # [17:36] <Domenic_> darobin: sounds good. Given that the spec is already a Rec, will this cause large amounts of work to happen? ("Performance timing v2"?)
  259. # [17:37] <darobin> Domenic_: not necessarily; the last time someone found a bug with a WebPerf Rec they spinned a new Rec out in 6 days
  260. # [17:38] <Domenic_> Woah, didn't know that was possible.
  261. # [17:38] <Domenic_> Cool, thanks.
  262. # [17:39] <darobin> Domenic_: that's why I often say that the Process isn't the problem, you can do a hell of a lot with it; the problem is mostly with the culture
  263. # [17:40] <zcorpan> WebPerf++ for creating a new Rec in 6 days
  264. # [17:41] <Ms2ger> We should publish HTML in WebPerf
  265. # [17:43] <Domenic_> :D
  266. # [17:43] <darobin> Ms2ger: I think that could join the suggestion I made that the HTML WG would use the WHATWG mailing list for technical discussion at that big party with interesting designer drugs :)
  267. # [17:43] <Domenic_> Is the syntax [Exposed=Window,Worker]?
  268. # [17:43] <Domenic_> #lazyirc
  269. # [17:44] <Ms2ger> darobin, by the time the HTMLWG notices and starts flam^Wdiscussing, the Rec will have been shipped
  270. # [17:44] <darobin> Ms2ger: my thoughts exactly *MUAHAHAHAHA*
  271. # [17:45] <zcorpan> Domenic_: yeah, but there's an open spec bug about the comma
  272. # [17:46] <Ms2ger> [Exposed=Window`Worker]
  273. # [17:47] <zcorpan> [Exposed=Window┏(°.°)┛Worker]
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  275. # [17:52] <Domenic_> zcorpan++
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  288. # [18:11] <zcorpan> Hixie: intentional that <video><source><script></script><source></video> is not allowed in the content model?
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  291. # [18:16] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  330. # [19:26] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: There were also requests for string->TypedArray (assuming the default 16-point code units of JS strings). Strings are the most compact way to ship binary data inline in scripts.
  331. # [19:27] <TabAtkins> a-ja: Fixed typo, thanks.
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  344. # [19:50] <Hixie> zcorpan: dunno. yet more reasons i hate multi-element designs.
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  346. # [19:50] <zcorpan> Hixie: i filed a bunch of bugs about script-supporting elements and content models
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  348. # [19:51] <Hixie> great
  349. # [19:51] <Hixie> :-P
  350. # [19:51] <zcorpan> you're welcome :-)
  351. # [19:51] <zcorpan> maybe you should have made template="" an attribute
  352. # [19:51] <zcorpan> and script=""
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  354. # [19:55] <zewt> hello, i'm sitting around at work twiddling my thumbs hitting f5 once ina while as google docs 502s for me
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  356. # [19:55] <zewt> welcome to cloud
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  358. # [19:57] <zewt> TabAtkins: i'm not sure exactly what you're describing, but it sounds horrible
  359. # [19:58] <zewt> incidentally, i think base64 deflates down to basically its original size, which makes it a silly way to send nontrivial amounts of binary data, but not an uncompact one
  360. # [19:58] <TabAtkins> zewt: Interesting. It makes sense that it should compress to roughly its original size, I guess - you're only using 6 bits of each byte, after all.
  361. # [20:00] <zewt> i don't recall how deflate's algorithm works, but if it's bitwise rather than bytewise, it'd probably pick up the encoding pretty precisely, too
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  364. # [20:01] <TabAtkins> Pretty sure it's bitwise.
  365. # [20:01] <TabAtkins> But I could be wrong.
  366. # [20:01] <zewt> 1048576 bytes of random data becomes 1076467 bytes, so about 3% overhead
  367. # [20:03] <zcorpan> doesn't google images do that?
  368. # [20:03] <zcorpan> for instant cats
  369. # [20:08] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I think so.
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  372. # [20:12] <Hixie> zcorpan: what about https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25542 ?
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  374. # [20:13] <zcorpan> Hixie: if you remember how the spec comment 4 talks about came into being (if it was there when you edited the spec)
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  376. # [20:14] <Hixie> i'd have to look at the blame
  377. # [20:14] <Hixie> i don't recall off the top of my head
  378. # [20:14] <zcorpan> ok
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  386. # [20:30] <zcorpan> i guess we shouldn't tell @PointedEars2 about the quirks spec
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  388. # [20:32] <Ms2ger> Might go all pointed ears about it
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  394. # [20:50] <jgraham> zcorpan: Uh, yeah seems to be broken
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  396. # [20:51] <jgraham> I have never understood that particular error :(
  397. # [20:51] <zcorpan> jgraham: context?
  398. # [20:51] <zcorpan> oh the PR
  399. # [20:51] <jgraham> 12:05 < zcorpan> jgraham: critic didn't like https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/959
  400. # [20:52] <jgraham> Invalid history rewrite: No commit on the rebased branch references
  401. # [20:52] <jgraham> remote: the same tree as the old head of the branch.
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  404. # [20:54] <jgraham> Which I guess suggests a move-type rebase is being misinterpreted as a in-place rebase
  405. # [20:54] <jgraham> Which does suggest a way to fix it…
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  407. # [20:56] <SamB> does "move type" mean you put the results in a different ref or something?
  408. # [20:57] <jgraham> SamB: By "Move type" I mean you go from A-B-C-B1-B2 -> A-B-C-D-E-B1'-B2'
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  410. # [20:58] <SamB> jgraham: oh
  411. # [20:58] <SamB> why does it even try to notice the latter?
  412. # [20:59] <jgraham> The latter?
  413. # [20:59] <SamB> in-place
  414. # [20:59] <SamB> which I assume means more like -> A-B-C-B2'-B1' ?
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  416. # [20:59] <jgraham> In-place is typically like A-B-C-B1-B2 -> A-B-C-B12
  417. # [21:00] <SamB> whatever
  418. # [21:00] <jgraham> It needs to know that the branch history doesn't match what's in git
  419. # [21:01] <SamB> ah
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  422. # [21:01] <zcorpan> jgraham: btw is there some unstable test you want me to look at?
  423. # [21:01] <jgraham> Critic has a truly immutable history of the branch because all the previous commits have extra data attached to them like comments
  424. # [21:02] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.219.100) (Quit: weinig)
  425. # [21:02] <SamB> so I guess it'd want to notice if you reorder commits too, so that it can reattach the comments?
  426. # [21:03] <jgraham> zcorpan: I had to disable the tests in http://w3c-test.org/workers/semantics/structured-clone/ because they were playing merry hell with the next test
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  428. # [21:03] <SamB> what, you can't get a fresh instance of the thing-under-test?
  429. # [21:03] <jgraham> Also, they behave differently on my local computer compared to infrastructure
  430. # [21:03] <SamB> eeinteresting
  431. # [21:03] <zcorpan> jgraham: intredasting
  432. # [21:04] <jgraham> SamB: I could, but there is a tradeoff between isolation and performance
  433. # [21:04] <SamB> jgraham: true
  434. # [21:04] <jgraham> (I could probably add a restart-after feature to the test harness so that tests known to behave badly could still be run, but I haven't, yet)
  435. # [21:05] <zcorpan> jgraham: do you think it would help if it was split up to lots of separate files?
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  437. # [21:07] <jgraham> zcorpan: Well then at least I could just disable the subset that actually cause problems
  438. # [21:08] <zcorpan> yep. might also be easier to figure out what the problem actually is
  439. # [21:08] <jgraham> I *suspect* there is a gecko bug here, but I am *so* close to getting a complete set of green testruns that I haven't wanted to investigate everything
  440. # [21:08] <zcorpan> or maybe the problem goes away altogether when splitting, which is both good and bad
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  442. # [21:08] <jgraham> Yeah
  443. # [21:09] <jgraham> Well I guess we still have the old version if it does, although people will be less motivated to care
  444. # [21:09] * Joins: 64MAAH79Y (scrollback@conference/jsconf/x-egxpdtqamjarqxav)
  445. # [21:09] <zcorpan> yeah
  446. # [21:10] <zcorpan> maybe i should dress it up as an acid test instead :-P
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  461. # [21:40] <Hixie> my kittens it's depressing seeing the number of changes the htmlwg make to the spec that are just bogus
  462. # [21:41] <jtcranmer> dare I ask?
  463. # [21:41] <Hixie> not just thing i disagree with, i mean, things where the change is not even what the htmlwg intends
  464. # [21:41] <Hixie> jtcranmer: i'm going through bug mail looking at old checkins
  465. # [21:41] <SamB> any choice examples?
  466. # [21:41] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Client Quit)
  467. # [21:42] <Hixie> https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/d601f6af9914aa0dadd3277c8771ed46995f61de is my favourite so far
  468. # [21:42] <Hixie> replaces "must" with "need", so it's no longer normative
  469. # [21:42] <Hixie> if read literally, it actually gives the wrong effect (e.g. if the contents are "\n\n\n", it suggests that the markup should be "\n\n", whereas it should be "\n\n\n\n")
  470. # [21:43] <Hixie> plus it talks about intent rather than describing the mapping normatively (referring to the actual contents)
  471. # [21:43] <Hixie> etc
  472. # [21:43] <Hixie> it's just a microcosm of error
  473. # [21:45] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.219.100) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  474. # [21:45] <jtcranmer> so... htmlwg is run by a bunch of phenomenal idiots
  475. # [21:46] <jtcranmer> good to know that I don't have to worry about it
  476. # [21:46] <othermaciej> I’m not clear on how the previous MUST is a reasonable author conformance requirement
  477. # [21:46] <jtcranmer> unless someone tries to convince me that I need to write an HTML parser to process email
  478. # [21:46] <othermaciej> it tells you conditionally what to do if you want a certain effect
  479. # [21:47] * jtcranmer stares at the change
  480. # [21:47] <othermaciej> that is a description of implementation behavior, not of author requirements
  481. # [21:47] <Hixie> othermaciej: that section is essentially telling you how to serialise a DOM
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  484. # [21:48] <othermaciej> Oh, I can’t tell what section - I assumed the “by the author” meant its an authoring requirements section
  485. # [21:48] <Hixie> it's the syntax section, describing how you serialise a DOM
  486. # [21:48] <Hixie> as opposed to the parsing section
  487. # [21:49] <Hixie> so it's for "authors" as opposed to "UAs" but it's still normative :-)
  488. # [21:49] <jtcranmer> the original statement was mildly problematic
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  491. # [21:50] <othermaciej> mmm, nope, its in 12.1 Writing HTML documents, nothing about serializing a DOM there
  492. # [21:50] <jtcranmer> the new statement is slightly unclear as well
  493. # [21:50] <othermaciej> afaict this is the section conformance checkers should use to check conformance of any document
  494. # [21:50] <othermaciej> Section 12.3 is Serializing HTML Fragments
  495. # [21:50] * jtcranmer sighs
  496. # [21:51] <Hixie> othermaciej: 12.1 is a description of how you serialise a dom
  497. # [21:51] <jtcranmer> this is why I like C++'s method of explictly including [Note: ] fragments
  498. # [21:51] <zcorpan> othermaciej: "conformance checkers must use the requirements given in the next section ("parsing HTML documents")."
  499. # [21:51] <Hixie> jtcranmer: we have "note" fragments too. in green, even.
  500. # [21:52] <jtcranmer> so you could say [Note: to make a <pre> that starts with an empty line, two linebreaks would be inserted, as the first one is semantically invisible.]
  501. # [21:52] <Hixie> othermaciej: e.g. "The next few characters of a start tag must be the element's tag name"
  502. # [21:52] <Hixie> othermaciej: an element is something from a DOM
  503. # [21:52] <othermaciej> Hixie: come on, there’s enough genuine errors that you don’t have to make bad faith arguments
  504. # [21:53] <Hixie> ?
  505. # [21:53] <Hixie> this isn't a bad faith argument
  506. # [21:53] <Hixie> just happened to be my favourite of the run i had looked at
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  508. # [21:54] <othermaciej> 12.1 is not about serializing a DOM, its authoring conformance requirements for correct syntax; there is literally no mention of serialization
  509. # [21:54] <othermaciej> it is true that a serializer would also be required to output correct syntax
  510. # [21:54] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  511. # [21:54] <othermaciej> but there’s no reference to a source DOM anywhere in there
  512. # [21:54] <Hixie> the word "serialialisation" isn't used, sure. but that's what it's describing nonetheless.
  513. # [21:55] <Hixie> the whole section is phrased in terms of how you describe a tree of elements
  514. # [21:55] <Hixie> elements only exist in DOMs
  515. # [21:56] <zcorpan> if you're writing markup from scratch, do you first imagine the DOM and then serialize that? :-)
  516. # [21:56] <othermaciej> its restrictions on valid syntax, not specifically instructions for serializing
  517. # [21:57] <mathiasbynens> annevk: are you aware of any test cases for the Encoding Standard? specifically for the legacy encodings
  518. # [21:57] <annevk> mathiasbynens: http://dump.testsuite.org/encoding/ has tests
  519. # [21:57] <annevk> mathiasbynens: needs a lot more though, darobin might have written some more maybe?
  520. # [21:58] <annevk> (those tests need to be checked for accuracy by the way)
  521. # [21:58] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
  522. # [21:59] <zcorpan> and port to web-platform-tests?
  523. # [21:59] <othermaciej> you could argue that any time you make a document from scratch you are implicitly serializing an imaginary DOM, but that would not be the way most folks think about it
  524. # [21:59] <othermaciej> speaking of which, I am having trouble figuring out what this means: “A table element must not contain tr elements, even though these elements are technically allowed inside table elements according to the content models described in this specification. (If a tr element is put inside a table in the markup, it will in fact imply a tbody start tag before it.)”
  525. # [21:59] <mathiasbynens> annevk: ta
  526. # [21:59] <othermaciej> on whom is that must requirement?
  527. # [22:00] <Ms2ger> Authors
  528. # [22:00] <othermaciej> but authors are allowed to write <table><tr>
  529. # [22:00] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  530. # [22:00] <Ms2ger> But that doesn't lead to a table containing a tr
  531. # [22:00] <Ms2ger> At least not if "contain" means "child"
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  533. # [22:01] <othermaciej> is it an obscure way to say your document is invalid if you use DOM methods to insert a <tr> as a direct child of a <table>?
  534. # [22:01] <annevk> othermaciej: you can also use XML
  535. # [22:01] <zcorpan> no, that section doesn't apply to DOM methods
  536. # [22:01] <othermaciej> that section specifically does not apply to XML
  537. # [22:01] <Ms2ger> Then what is it talking about?
  538. # [22:02] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  539. # [22:02] <Hixie> othermaciej: it's saying that a DOM that is serialised according to that section cannot have a <tr> in a <table>
  540. # [22:02] <Hixie> othermaciej: it's an additional restriction on the content model
  541. # [22:02] <Hixie> othermaciej: specifically for DOMs that are serialised per this section
  542. # [22:02] <zcorpan> you're not allowed to imagine <tr> as a child of <table> when writing your text/html
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  544. # [22:02] <Hixie> yeah, the DOM you're serialising is usually just an imagined one, that's a good way to view this
  545. # [22:02] <zcorpan> you have to imagine <tr> as child of <tbody> as child of <table>, and then it's ok to write it as <table><tr> :-)
  546. # [22:02] <othermaciej> So any serializer is required to output <table><tbody><tr> instead of Mtable><tr>?
  547. # [22:03] <Hixie> no, it means if you pass a DOM to this section, it cannot have a TR as a child of a TABLE
  548. # [22:03] <Hixie> what zcorpan said
  549. # [22:03] <Hixie> you have to imagine <tr> as child of <tbody> as child of <table>, and then it's ok to write it as <table><tr>
  550. # [22:04] <othermaciej> having a conformance requirement on the input to an algorithm makes no sense (assuming arguendo that this even describes an algorithm)
  551. # [22:04] <othermaciej> how would you even check if someone’s imaginary DOM is valid?
  552. # [22:04] <Hixie> content models are nothing but conformance requirements on the inputs to algorithms
  553. # [22:04] <Hixie> well it might not be imaginary
  554. # [22:05] <othermaciej> content models are requirements for correct syntax of a textual representation of HTML
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  556. # [22:05] <zcorpan> othermaciej: it's planned for the next iteration of Google Glasses
  557. # [22:05] <othermaciej> a content model requirement that can’t be checked in the serialized output has no effect
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  559. # [22:07] <SamB> so basically, you run the parser FIRST then worry about the content model ...
  560. # [22:08] <SamB> othermaciej: you run their imaginary DOM through a validator, obviously
  561. # [22:09] <othermaciej> if it fails your imagination validator, are you allowed to correct the imaginary error? (and then write exactly what you would have if you hadn’t fixeed the error?)
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  563. # [22:10] <zcorpan> of course
  564. # [22:10] <othermaciej> I guess it’s saying that you are allowed to write <table><tr>, but you MUST imagine there is a <tbody> there
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  566. # [22:12] <zcorpan> othermaciej: <html><head><body> and <colgroup> are similar actually
  567. # [22:12] <zcorpan> but they happen to have the same content model in xhtml and text/html
  568. # [22:13] <othermaciej> so in XHTML, you are allowed to write <table><tr> without imagining the <tbody>?
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  570. # [22:13] <zcorpan> yes
  571. # [22:13] <SamB> wait you mean text/html has its own content models, not just quirky parsing rules?
  572. # [22:13] <zcorpan> SamB: yeah there are a few differences between text/html and xhtml content models
  573. # [22:14] <zcorpan> <table><tr> is one
  574. # [22:14] <Ms2ger> And noscript
  575. # [22:14] <zcorpan> <iframe>'s content is another
  576. # [22:14] <SamB> oh, right, noscript
  577. # [22:14] <SamB> forgot about that
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  579. # [22:15] <SamB> it's really the wrong approach nowadays because whether scripts run is not that simple anymore
  580. # [22:15] <SamB> aside from the parsing nightmare, I mean
  581. # [22:16] <zcorpan> SamB: do you mean noscript should be disallowed in text/html also?
  582. # [22:16] <SamB> it's not marked obsolescant?
  583. # [22:17] <zcorpan> not quite sure what that word means but it's not marked as such
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  585. # [22:19] <SamB> I think I should have just said "obsolete"
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  587. # [22:19] <SamB> and I'm not actually sure what difference (if any) there is between those words other than spelling/pronunciation
  588. # [22:20] <mathiasbynens> annevk: can haz `single-octet-raw.phps`?
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  590. # [22:21] <annevk> mathiasbynens: I think that's a loop from 0 to 255 and just does chr(n)
  591. # [22:21] <annevk> mathiasbynens: maybe it starts at 127
  592. # [22:22] <annevk> 128*
  593. # [22:23] <mathiasbynens> and then `content-type:text/html;charset=label`, i suppose
  594. # [22:23] <annevk> maybe text/plain, but yeah
  595. # [22:23] <mathiasbynens> oh, right
  596. # [22:24] <zcorpan> mathiasbynens: what do you want the tests for, out of curiosity?
  597. # [22:24] <Hixie> tantek: (c/o annevk) see w3c bugs 24840-24843
  598. # [22:27] <annevk> How does https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/9d699201cb034e495c46e6120811599b93cba7da even make sense? Anyway, I got other things to do
  599. # [22:27] <mathiasbynens> zcorpan: writing encoders/decoders for the legacy single-byte encodings in the Encoding standard, to use as part of another hobby project
  600. # [22:28] <zcorpan> mathiasbynens: would it be troublesome to convert them to w-p-t format? :-)
  601. # [22:29] <mathiasbynens> zcorpan: i might just do that
  602. # [22:30] <zcorpan> splendid
  603. # [22:30] <zcorpan> but don't get too excited or Ms2ger will be sending chocolate your way
  604. # [22:31] <mathiasbynens> that sounds terrible
  605. # [22:31] <Ms2ger> Probably cheaper than to zcorpan, too
  606. # [22:31] * Quits: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@66-194-1-26.STATIC.twtelecom.net) (Quit: jeffreyatw)
  607. # [22:31] <zcorpan> yes. also darobin will be concerned about your health eating all that chocolate
  608. # [22:31] <mathiasbynens> annevk: if you’re ever pushing to the encoding standard server again, consider either enabling CORS for http://dump.testsuite.org/encoding/single-octet-raw.php or just adding http://dump.testsuite.org/encoding/single-octet-raw.phps
  609. # [22:32] <zcorpan> and your significant other will post pictures on facebook about said chocolate
  610. # [22:32] <Ms2ger> Now I'm sad I missed that
  611. # [22:32] <Ms2ger> I can send chocolate for said significant other too, of course
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  613. # [22:34] <annevk> mathiasbynens: dump.testsuite.org is not that server, but yeah, maybe if you ping me in a couple of weeks during the day or so
  614. # [22:35] <mathiasbynens> will do, thanks :)
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  620. # [22:41] <zcorpan> Hixie: btw i think it's time soon to take over <img>
  621. # [22:42] <Hixie> k
  622. # [22:42] <Hixie> i haven't gotten to the loading refactoring yet unfortunately
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  625. # [22:44] <zcorpan> ok. i guess i can fix that
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  628. # [22:47] <Hixie> zcorpan: that would certainly be fine by me. Happy to help with it, too. I didn't mean to dump it in your lap.
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  630. # [22:47] <zcorpan> Hixie: ok cool
  631. # [22:48] <zcorpan> Hixie: how do you envision the split to work? you take in source text that is inserted in `source` before running anolis?
  632. # [22:48] <Hixie> yeah
  633. # [22:48] <Hixie> there's some <!-- --> markers in the <img> section already
  634. # [22:49] <Hixie> so my plan is to just replace those with a thing that imports a file from you
  635. # [22:49] <Hixie> which i would grab via HTTP from somewhere, probbaly
  636. # [22:49] <Hixie> that part is up to you
  637. # [22:49] <estellevw> Is the capture attribute going to be a separate attribute, or part of the value of the accept attribute. I see it in the discussions but not the HTML5 spec.
  638. # [22:50] <zcorpan> Hixie: how can i generate the spec to see that the xrefs and stuff work?
  639. # [22:50] <estellevw> I did find it here: http://www.w3.org/TR/html-media-capture/#the-capture-attribute
  640. # [22:50] <zcorpan> is it enough to run vanilla anolis?
  641. # [22:50] <Hixie> zcorpan: and as far as <source> goes, if you really are gonna use <source>, we'll try to make it work, and if it ends up being too many changes, we can do the same for that
  642. # [22:50] <Hixie> zcorpan: hmm
  643. # [22:50] <Hixie> zcorpan: probably need to stick a generic header on the top
  644. # [22:50] <Hixie> zcorpan: but yeah, that should work
  645. # [22:50] <estellevw> as a separate attribute, but am wondering where it's going to land, if at all
  646. # [22:50] <Hixie> zcorpan: however i'm planning on moving away from anolis in the medium term.
  647. # [22:51] <zcorpan> Hixie: to what?
  648. # [22:51] <Hixie> zcorpan: something of my own creation
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  650. # [22:51] <zcorpan> that's why you're writing an html parser?
  651. # [22:51] <Hixie> yeah
  652. # [22:51] <Hixie> anolis is just too slow for my needs at this point
  653. # [22:51] <zcorpan> ok
  654. # [22:51] <Hixie> it's becoming painful
  655. # [22:51] <Hixie> anyway i'm sure i'll be able to provide you a tool you can use
  656. # [22:52] <Hixie> either a cgi script or a native app or something
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  665. # [23:08] <zcorpan> Hixie: i think i'll put the file in https://github.com/ResponsiveImagesCG/picture-element (which means a few other people will have ability to change it)
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  668. # [23:09] <Hixie> so long as you have ultimate responsibility, how you do it is up to you :-)
  669. # [23:11] <zcorpan> Hixie: what is the <!-- --> marker?
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  671. # [23:12] <Hixie> <!-- START OF PICTURE SECTION --> and <!-- END OF PICTURE SECTION -->
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  674. # [23:13] <zcorpan> ok, i'll take a look at this tomorrow. thx
  675. # [23:14] <Hixie> thank _you!_
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  677. # [23:14] <zcorpan> welcome :-)
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  700. # Session Close: Tue May 06 00:00:00 2014

The end :)