/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-05-19 / end

Options:

1. # Session Start: Mon May 19 00:00:00 2014
2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
3. # [00:00] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4. # [00:03] * Joins: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
5. # [00:07] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@89.178.155.119) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
6. # [00:08] * Joins: victorbjelkholm (~victorbje@41.Red-83-60-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
7. # [00:13] * Quits: aretecode (~aretecode@64.120.6.170) (*.net *.split)
8. # [00:13] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@89.17.128.127) (*.net *.split)
9. # [00:13] * Quits: beowulf (~sstewart@host86-153-243-191.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) (*.net *.split)
10. # [00:13] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@23.252.119.254) (*.net *.split)
11. # [00:13] * Quits: foolip (~philip@37.139.17.34) (*.net *.split)
12. # [00:13] * Quits: hendry (~hendry@sg.webconverger.com) (*.net *.split)
13. # [00:13] * Quits: tbsaunde (~tbsaunde@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (*.net *.split)
14. # [00:13] * Quits: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (*.net *.split)
15. # [00:13] * Quits: yoshiki (~yoshiki@miku.s.su.la) (*.net *.split)
16. # [00:13] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140) (*.net *.split)
17. # [00:13] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (*.net *.split)
18. # [00:13] * Quits: wycats___ (sid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzpgwumyceegqezc) (*.net *.split)
19. # [00:13] * Quits: timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless) (*.net *.split)
20. # [00:13] * Quits: rxgx (uid22483@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abjblfnfzomgjtyx) (*.net *.split)
21. # [00:13] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-4nf.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net) (*.net *.split)
22. # [00:13] * Quits: ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) (*.net *.split)
23. # [00:13] * Quits: benjamingr (uid23465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqmlugmjmmpdzoax) (*.net *.split)
24. # [00:13] * Quits: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe03:db82) (*.net *.split)
25. # [00:13] * Quits: kochi (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe03:db82) (*.net *.split)
26. # [00:13] * Quits: dshwang (~dshwang@134.134.137.75) (*.net *.split)
27. # [00:13] * Quits: molsson_ (~molsson@83.218.67.123) (*.net *.split)
28. # [00:13] * Quits: mvujovic (sid13458@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ioveozutujucgrha) (*.net *.split)
29. # [00:13] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@192.241.222.35) (*.net *.split)
30. # [00:13] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@210.94.41.89) (*.net *.split)
31. # [00:13] * Quits: jcgregorio (jcgregorio@nat/google/x-ipxvsgwpdulsddzp) (*.net *.split)
32. # [00:13] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijn@is-aweso.me) (*.net *.split)
33. # [00:13] * Quits: nickstenn (~nickstenn@pdpc/supporter/student/borior) (*.net *.split)
34. # [00:13] * Quits: wirepair_ (fbi@random.supermario.org) (*.net *.split)
35. # [00:13] * Quits: Joseph_Silber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net) (*.net *.split)
36. # [00:13] * Quits: diffalot (~diffalot@76.107.128.104) (*.net *.split)
37. # [00:13] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (*.net *.split)
38. # [00:13] * Quits: jgraham (~jgraham@web91.webfaction.com) (*.net *.split)
39. # [00:13] * Quits: amtiskaw__ (sid19262@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsacybauqttoqbo) (*.net *.split)
40. # [00:13] * Quits: pdr (sid7901@pdpc/supporter/active/pdr) (*.net *.split)
41. # [00:13] * Quits: cabanier (sid15093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozkimgpwrpfutmrf) (*.net *.split)
42. # [00:13] * Quits: jamesr_ (sid10481@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bzmmsicnhegukigf) (*.net *.split)
43. # [00:13] * Quits: tndrH (~Rob@cpc4-seac20-2-0-cust858.7-2.cable.virginm.net) (*.net *.split)
44. # [00:13] * Quits: inimino (~inimino@oftn/board/inimino) (*.net *.split)
45. # [00:13] * Quits: mrbkap_ (~mrbkap@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (*.net *.split)
46. # [00:13] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (*.net *.split)
47. # [00:13] * Quits: seventh (seventh@31.6.45.74) (*.net *.split)
48. # [00:13] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (*.net *.split)
49. # [00:13] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@77-57-114-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) (*.net *.split)
50. # [00:13] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
51. # [00:13] * Quits: CvP (~CvP@27.147.199.131) (*.net *.split)
52. # [00:13] * Quits: ahf (~ahf@irssi/staff/ahf) (*.net *.split)
53. # [00:13] * Quits: dglazkov (sid4270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evldfxthogsjzbwi) (*.net *.split)
54. # [00:13] * Quits: ojan (sid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bthaqqrfgdokyoxk) (*.net *.split)
55. # [00:13] * Quits: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ysookyurvcczbqdt) (*.net *.split)
56. # [00:13] * Quits: ianloic (sid372@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywkkobzoipwsvvug) (*.net *.split)
57. # [00:14] * Quits: th2389 (uid27360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwkardfwokuisfzh) (*.net *.split)
58. # [00:14] * Quits: tyoshino____ (sid19222@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xuztsjaurtrxemhs) (*.net *.split)
59. # [00:14] * Quits: pamer_ (sid23807@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-snnslmmycyhwmovp) (*.net *.split)
60. # [00:14] * Quits: abucur (sid19072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ikmqdxzvnqyixmvx) (*.net *.split)
61. # [00:14] * Quits: Philip` (~philip@compass.zaynar.co.uk) (*.net *.split)
62. # [00:14] * Quits: globbot (~logbot@lump.glob.com.au) (*.net *.split)
63. # [00:14] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@ve.hsh6wjwx.vesrv.com) (*.net *.split)
64. # [00:14] * Quits: Streusel (~Anonymous@unaffiliated/streusel) (*.net *.split)
65. # [00:17] * Quits: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
66. # [00:17] * Joins: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de)
67. # [00:19] * Joins: 18VAAWOQI (ahf@irssi/staff/ahf)
68. # [00:20] * Joins: Philip`_ (~philip@compass.zaynar.co.uk)
69. # [00:20] * Joins: aretecode (~aretecode@64.120.6.170)
70. # [00:20] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
71. # [00:20] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140)
72. # [00:20] * Joins: Streusel (~Anonymous@unaffiliated/streusel)
73. # [00:20] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@89.17.128.127)
74. # [00:20] * Joins: Joseph_Silber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net)
75. # [00:20] * Joins: diffalot (~diffalot@76.107.128.104)
76. # [00:20] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
77. # [00:20] * Joins: wycats___ (sid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzpgwumyceegqezc)
78. # [00:20] * Joins: timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless)
79. # [00:20] * Joins: seventh (seventh@31.6.45.74)
80. # [00:20] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
81. # [00:20] * Joins: rxgx (uid22483@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abjblfnfzomgjtyx)
82. # [00:20] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-4nf.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
83. # [00:20] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@77-57-114-66.dclient.hispeed.ch)
84. # [00:20] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net)
85. # [00:20] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
86. # [00:20] * Joins: CvP (~CvP@27.147.199.131)
87. # [00:20] * Joins: ahf (~ahf@irssi/staff/ahf)
88. # [00:20] * Joins: ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001)
89. # [00:20] * Joins: yoshiki (~yoshiki@miku.s.su.la)
90. # [00:20] * Joins: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
91. # [00:20] * Joins: tbsaunde (~tbsaunde@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
92. # [00:20] * Joins: hendry (~hendry@sg.webconverger.com)
93. # [00:20] * Joins: foolip (~philip@37.139.17.34)
94. # [00:20] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@23.252.119.254)
95. # [00:20] * Joins: beowulf (~sstewart@host86-153-243-191.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
96. # [00:20] * Joins: wirepair_ (fbi@random.supermario.org)
97. # [00:20] * Joins: nickstenn (~nickstenn@pdpc/supporter/student/borior)
98. # [00:20] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijn@is-aweso.me)
99. # [00:20] * Joins: jcgregorio (jcgregorio@nat/google/x-ipxvsgwpdulsddzp)
100. # [00:20] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@210.94.41.89)
101. # [00:20] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@192.241.222.35)
102. # [00:20] * Joins: mvujovic (sid13458@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ioveozutujucgrha)
103. # [00:20] * Joins: molsson_ (~molsson@83.218.67.123)
104. # [00:20] * Joins: dshwang (~dshwang@134.134.137.75)
105. # [00:20] * Joins: kochi (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe03:db82)
106. # [00:20] * Joins: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe03:db82)
107. # [00:20] * Joins: benjamingr (uid23465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqmlugmjmmpdzoax)
108. # [00:20] * Joins: jgraham (~jgraham@web91.webfaction.com)
109. # [00:20] * Joins: dglazkov (sid4270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evldfxthogsjzbwi)
110. # [00:20] * Joins: amtiskaw__ (sid19262@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsacybauqttoqbo)
111. # [00:20] * Joins: ojan (sid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bthaqqrfgdokyoxk)
112. # [00:20] * Joins: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ysookyurvcczbqdt)
113. # [00:20] * Joins: ianloic (sid372@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywkkobzoipwsvvug)
114. # [00:20] * Joins: pdr (sid7901@pdpc/supporter/active/pdr)
115. # [00:20] * Joins: th2389 (uid27360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwkardfwokuisfzh)
116. # [00:20] * Joins: cabanier (sid15093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozkimgpwrpfutmrf)
117. # [00:20] * Joins: tyoshino____ (sid19222@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xuztsjaurtrxemhs)
118. # [00:20] * Joins: pamer_ (sid23807@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-snnslmmycyhwmovp)
119. # [00:20] * Joins: jamesr_ (sid10481@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bzmmsicnhegukigf)
120. # [00:20] * Joins: abucur (sid19072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ikmqdxzvnqyixmvx)
121. # [00:20] * Joins: tndrH (~Rob@cpc4-seac20-2-0-cust858.7-2.cable.virginm.net)
122. # [00:20] * Joins: inimino (~inimino@oftn/board/inimino)
123. # [00:20] * Joins: mrbkap_ (~mrbkap@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
124. # [00:20] * Joins: Philip` (~philip@compass.zaynar.co.uk)
125. # [00:20] * Joins: globbot (~logbot@lump.glob.com.au)
126. # [00:20] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@ve.hsh6wjwx.vesrv.com)
127. # [00:20] * Quits: Philip` (~philip@compass.zaynar.co.uk) (Write error: Broken pipe)
128. # [00:21] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242)
129. # [00:23] * 18VAAWOQI is now known as ahf_
130. # [00:23] * Quits: ahf (~ahf@irssi/staff/ahf) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
131. # [00:23] * ahf_ is now known as ahf
132. # [00:28] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140) (Remote host closed the connection)
133. # [00:30] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@89.17.128.127) (Quit: barnabywalters)
134. # [00:38] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@89.17.128.127)
135. # [00:39] * Philip`_ is now known as Philip`
136. # [00:39] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@89.17.128.127) (Client Quit)
137. # [00:43] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140)
138. # [00:51] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140) (Remote host closed the connection)
139. # [00:52] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140)
140. # [00:53] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@89.17.128.127)
141. # [00:56] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
142. # [01:05] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
143. # [01:06] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@89.17.128.127) (Quit: barnabywalters)
144. # [01:10] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
145. # [01:18] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@q023013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Quit: jdaggett)
146. # [01:38] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231)
147. # [01:45] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
148. # [01:50] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
149. # [01:51] * Joins: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
150. # [01:51] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
151. # [01:52] * Joins: nm7000 (~nick@thunder.nickmerrill.co)
152. # [01:57] * Quits: coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95) (Quit: coolbot95)
153. # [02:06] * Joins: annevk_ (~annevk@77-57-114-66.dclient.hispeed.ch)
154. # [02:06] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@77-57-114-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
155. # [02:36] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
156. # [02:37] * Joins: abinader (sid21713@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sltbvtaecrtfzgnb)
157. # [03:01] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242) (Quit: weinig)
158. # [03:21] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
159. # [03:23] * Joins: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@199-188-192-248.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net)
160. # [03:32] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
161. # [03:56] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@c-50-168-55-219.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
162. # [03:56] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
163. # [04:01] * Quits: victorbjelkholm (~victorbje@41.Red-83-60-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
164. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> foolip: I see that Denis responded to some (but not all) of your review comments at https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/604
165. # [04:13] <MikeSmith> foolip: if you could check and see if any of the remaining open issues in that review can be close that would be great
166. # [04:14] <MikeSmith> foolip: that way we can get them down to just the ones that are actually still waiting on Denis
167. # [04:14] <MikeSmith> foolip: and then I can ping Denis and ask him if he can make time to look back at them
168. # [04:15] <MikeSmith> foolip: we're no longer paying Denis to work on the testsuite, and this is the last PR we still have open from the time when we did have him working on tests
169. # [04:17] * Joins: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe0d:e1d5)
170. # [04:19] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
171. # [04:35] * Quits: seventh (seventh@31.6.45.74) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
172. # [04:35] <MikeSmith> so the "is" attribute is not actually formally defined anywhere yet, right?
173. # [04:35] <MikeSmith> at least not in http://w3c.github.io/webcomponents/spec/custom/
174. # [04:35] <MikeSmith> it's mentioned there but never defined
175. # [04:36] <MikeSmith> dglazkov: ↑☃
176. # [04:37] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
177. # [04:50] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-4nf.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
178. # [05:09] * Joins: llkats (~llkats@c-69-181-45-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
179. # [05:13] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-nc3.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
180. # [05:13] <caitp> hixie linked me to a sufficiently normative definition of it, but I can't recall where it was, @MikeSmith
181. # [05:13] <caitp> there are like dozens of those specs, makes it really hard to find things =)
182. # [05:14] <MikeSmith> caitp: yeah
183. # [05:15] <MikeSmith> caitp: OK thanks I guess I'll give up looking for it for now
184. # [05:15] <caitp> if i still have the bugmail i can probably dig it up
185. # [05:16] <caitp> mm, nope, gone
186. # [05:23] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
187. # [05:25] * Quits: Joseph_Silber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
188. # [05:56] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
189. # [05:56] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242)
190. # [06:02] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
191. # [06:03] * Quits: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@199-188-192-248.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: jeffreyatw)
192. # [06:15] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
193. # [06:32] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231) (Quit: Leaving.)
194. # [06:34] <TabAtkins> Hixie: We just agreed to kill the image-orientation property, so we need the exif autorotate attr. (dbaron needs the functionality *somehow*, and wants to make sure it's a sure thing).
195. # [06:35] <TabAtkins> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Jul/0568.html
196. # [06:35] <TabAtkins> wrong window, sorry
197. # [06:51] * Quits: aretecode (~aretecode@64.120.6.170) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
198. # [06:54] * Joins: aretecode (~aretecode@64.120.6.170)
199. # [06:58] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231)
200. # [07:03] * Quits: Streusel (~Anonymous@unaffiliated/streusel) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
201. # [07:16] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@c-50-168-55-219.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-8.1450hg.fc20 [XULRunner 29.0/20140428110119])
202. # [07:23] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@220.225.242.27)
203. # [07:25] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
204. # [07:28] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
205. # [07:30] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242) (Quit: weinig)
206. # [07:31] * Joins: newbie|9 (~kvirc@62.18.198.68)
207. # [07:31] * Quits: newbie|9 (~kvirc@62.18.198.68) (Client Quit)
208. # [07:32] * Joins: newbie|0 (~kvirc@62.18.198.68)
209. # [07:32] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
210. # [07:33] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
211. # [07:41] * Quits: llkats (~llkats@c-69-181-45-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
212. # [07:43] * Joins: mikey85 (48c129b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.72.193.41.178)
213. # [07:43] <mikey85> hello everyone :)
214. # [07:43] <mikey85> God bless everyone :)
215. # [07:43] <mikey85> message me if you would like to make friends with a good hearted Christian :)
216. # [07:43] * Parts: mikey85 (48c129b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.72.193.41.178)
217. # [07:46] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: wrong window again man, plus you've now exposed you super-secret mikey85 alternate nick
218. # [07:52] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
219. # [08:00] * Joins: nicolasbadia (~nicolasba@78.209.78.103)
220. # [08:09] * Joins: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gpzhcneosydwfupd)
221. # [08:10] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231) (Quit: Leaving.)
222. # [08:12] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171)
223. # [08:18] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@130.185.155.130)
224. # [08:20] * Quits: fredy (~fredy@snf-8914.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
225. # [08:32] <hober> MikeSmith||
226. # [08:32] <hober> err, ++ even
227. # [08:34] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171) (Quit: Leaving)
228. # [08:34] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171)
229. # [08:34] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@c-98-210-154-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
230. # [08:35] * Joins: fredy (~fredy@snf-8914.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr)
231. # [08:40] * Quits: newbie|0 (~kvirc@62.18.198.68) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
232. # [08:41] <sangwhan> MikeSmith: smooth
233. # [08:43] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
234. # [08:53] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
235. # [08:54] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
236. # [08:54] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
237. # [08:55] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
238. # [08:55] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
239. # [08:59] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231)
240. # [09:00] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
241. # [09:01] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171) (Quit: Leaving)
242. # [09:04] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: That's hardly even a secret.
243. # [09:04] * Joins: zcorpan (d25fff95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.95.255.149)
244. # [09:05] * Joins: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.cpe.webspeed.dk)
245. # [09:06] <zcorpan> Hixie: i notice there's an "HTML - <img>" component in bugzilla now. maybe the bug filer should select that component for img bugs? and i guess i can move the existing ones
246. # [09:06] * Quits: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.cpe.webspeed.dk) (Client Quit)
247. # [09:07] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah Hixie asked me to make that component for exactly what you just described
248. # [09:11] <zcorpan> ok cool
249. # [09:11] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
250. # [09:12] <zcorpan> Hixie: for the record i don't like the fading thing. i'd prefer if the styles are stable so i don't have to keep moving my mouse while reading and not lose track of where the links are
251. # [09:13] <zcorpan> Hixie: i'd be OK with having the links always be black and underlined, or some such
252. # [09:15] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
253. # [09:16] <TabAtkins> Fading thing?
254. # [09:16] <TabAtkins> Oh, I saw it.
255. # [09:19] <TabAtkins> But yeah, agree that the fading thing is annoying. At least keep the underlines.
256. # [09:20] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@134.199-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
257. # [09:22] <zcorpan> i'd find the fading annoying even if it keeps the underlines. it's distracting me that it fades back and forth
258. # [09:23] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
259. # [09:30] * Joins: mpt_ (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
260. # [09:30] * Quits: rxgx (uid22483@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abjblfnfzomgjtyx) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
261. # [09:31] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
262. # [09:33] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
263. # [09:35] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, IE6 still supported? I missed it
264. # [09:41] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
265. # [09:42] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
266. # [09:54] <MikeSmith> I like the fading thing. But I guess I'm weird.
267. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> But I like the colors too, so I'd rather have the colors than having the links always be black or whatever other compromise
268. # [09:56] <MikeSmith> and the complainers that are color-averse would just have to find some way to live with it
269. # [09:56] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
270. # [09:59] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
271. # [10:03] * Joins: davve (~user@83.218.67.123)
272. # [10:04] <annevk_> http://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan14-libressl/mgp00013.html whoa, OpenSSL had EBCDIC support
273. # [10:04] * annevk_ is now known as annevk
274. # [10:14] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
275. # [10:14] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
276. # [10:19] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
277. # [10:22] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
278. # [10:24] * Quits: abinader (sid21713@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sltbvtaecrtfzgnb)
279. # [10:28] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171)
280. # [10:36] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171) (Remote host closed the connection)
281. # [10:37] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171)
282. # [10:41] * Quits: zcorpan (d25fff95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.95.255.149) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
283. # [10:42] <sangwhan> wonder if libressl is nuking that perl generated assembly nonsense in openssl
284. # [10:43] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
285. # [10:47] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
286. # [10:47] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
287. # [10:47] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
288. # [10:52] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@213.33.220.118)
289. # [11:01] <MikeSmith> can the empty string be a valid "source size list"? http://picture.responsiveimages.org/#valid-source-size-list
290. # [11:01] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Quit: jdaggett)
291. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> is that BNF? does the lack of brackets around something mean it's required?
292. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> what does "#" means?
293. # [11:02] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se)
294. # [11:03] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-98-210-154-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
295. # [11:04] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
296. # [11:09] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
297. # [11:14] * MikeSmith finds "A hash mark (#) indicates that the preceding type, word, or group occurs one or more times, separated by comma tokens (which may optionally be surrounded by white space and/or comments)." http://drafts.csswg.org/css-values/#component-multipliers
298. # [11:15] <MikeSmith> good times
299. # [11:16] <mounir> annevk: I believe the array thing is on purpose
300. # [11:16] <annevk> mounir: can you restate that?
301. # [11:18] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
302. # [11:19] <mounir> annevk: regarding navigator.languages
303. # [11:19] <mounir> it returns an Array that has to be the same unless the values have changed
304. # [11:20] <mounir> so you get previousValue == navigator.languages
305. # [11:25] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@213.33.220.118) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.26/20140428215651])
306. # [11:28] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
307. # [11:29] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.181)
308. # [11:30] <annevk> mounir: so you return a JavaScript Array?
309. # [11:30] <annevk> mounir: the IDL says otherwise
310. # [11:31] <mounir> annevk: that's a Gecko quirks
311. # [11:31] <annevk> mounir: in the spec
312. # [11:31] <mounir> annevk: the spec says DOMString[]
313. # [11:31] <mounir> annevk: this is what my Blink patch does
314. # [11:32] <mounir> annevk: and in Gecko, sicking said that for some reasons, the right way was sequence<DOMString>
315. # [11:32] <mounir> because of binding generator or something
316. # [11:32] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
317. # [11:32] * Joins: satazor_ (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
318. # [11:32] <Ms2ger> mounir, DOMString[] is bad
319. # [11:32] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-15-151.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
320. # [11:33] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
321. # [11:34] <mounir> Ms2ger: don't be judgmental with that poor thing
322. # [11:34] <tobie> Is there a palatable doc somewhere that explains the diff between DOMString[], sequence<DOMString>, Foo extends Array and the like?
323. # [11:34] <annevk> mounir: [] is an IDL bug and needs to die
324. # [11:35] <mounir> annevk: I understand that
325. # [11:35] <annevk> tobie: not really, mostly we need someone to maintain IDL
326. # [11:35] <Ms2ger> Then why are you using it in blink?
327. # [11:35] <tobie> annevk: the language in WebIDL is NOT palatable.
328. # [11:36] <Ms2ger> tobie, there will be no need to explain DOMString[] if DOMString[] is gone, though
329. # [11:36] <tobie> Ms2ger: right, but in the meantime would be useful.
330. # [11:37] <tobie> Ms2ger: I expect it's going to last a while before it is gone.
331. # [11:39] <annevk> tobie: depends on when IDL becomes maintained again
332. # [11:40] <tobie> annevk: sure, but we're still going to see references to it all over the place.
333. # [11:41] <annevk> tobie: except at that point it'll be "oh this is invalid IDL, please fix"
334. # [11:42] <Ms2ger> We can't, it's in CR
335. # [11:42] <tobie> ^ that.
336. # [11:42] <annevk> lol
337. # [11:42] <Ms2ger> We'll just reference a WebIDL draft from 2008
338. # [11:42] <tobie> or already published as a REC, etc.
339. # [11:43] <annevk> something something http://annevankesteren.nl/2012/11/process
340. # [11:43] * Joins: ^esc (~esc-ape@178.165.129.73.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
341. # [11:46] <tobie> I thought heycam was maintaining WebIDL (and that he currently was on holidays, hence the delay)
342. # [11:46] <Ms2ger> He's not exactly quick to respond when he's not on holiday either
343. # [11:47] <annevk> heycam has a ton of other responsibilities
344. # [11:48] <annevk> IDL at this point requires about three to six months FTE
345. # [11:48] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
346. # [11:55] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/#widl-DocumentEvent-createEvent o_O
347. # [11:55] * Joins: coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95)
348. # [11:55] <SimonSapin> sangwhan: http://youtu.be/GnBbhXBDmwU?t=51m9s
349. # [11:59] <darobin> heh, annevk talking in FTEs
350. # [11:59] <darobin> you can almost feel the manager waking up in there :)
351. # [11:59] * darobin ducks
352. # [12:01] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se)
353. # [12:03] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231) (Quit: Leaving.)
354. # [12:08] <annevk> mounir: I guess I still don't understand; are we returning a JavaScript Array?
355. # [12:08] <annevk> mounir: seems like in Gecko we are; what about Blink?
356. # [12:09] * Quits: mpt_ (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
357. # [12:10] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25800 #w3confusion
358. # [12:12] <mounir> annevk: isn't what the spec says?
359. # [12:12] <annevk> mounir: no
360. # [12:15] <mounir> annevk: the spec says DOMString[], how isn't that a JS array?
361. # [12:15] <mounir> I'm confused
362. # [12:15] <annevk> mounir: it's an IDL array
363. # [12:16] <mounir> annevk: and that's not seen as an array in JS?
364. # [12:16] <annevk> mounir: correct
365. # [12:16] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
366. # [12:16] <annevk> mounir: read http://heycam.github.io/webidl/#es-array and weep
367. # [12:17] <mounir> oh boy...
368. # [12:20] <mounir> annevk: btw, the sequence<T> of Gecko is a hack in the sense that WebIDL doesn't allow returning sequence<T> from an attribute
369. # [12:21] <annevk> yeah I know about that; I don't like how IDL has the same "types" for arguments and return values
370. # [12:23] <sangwhan> SimonSapin: oh boy, the perl is still there
371. # [12:23] * Joins: mpt_ (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
372. # [12:24] * jgraham is quite confused about why you would want different types for arguments and return values
373. # [12:25] <annevk> jgraham: the argument one is not a type, it's a coercion
374. # [12:26] <jgraham> A coercion to a type
375. # [12:26] <mounir> annevk: seriously, this "platform array" thing is pretty confusing
376. # [12:26] <annevk> mounir: you can consider it dead
377. # [12:26] * Ms2ger promotes mounir to WebIDL editor
378. # [12:27] <mounir> Ms2ger: if you do that, don't complain when you become a Gecko DOM peer ;)
379. # [12:27] <Ms2ger> Ha
380. # [12:27] <Ms2ger> Not like I have time to do Gecko reviews anyway
381. # [12:29] <mounir> Ms2ger: you wouldn't be the first reviewer without time for reviews ;)
382. # [12:29] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@46-239-239-203.tal.is)
383. # [12:29] <Ms2ger> Hmm
384. # [12:29] <Ms2ger> Should window.HTMLAllCollection exist?
385. # [12:30] <Ms2ger> I guess so
386. # [12:32] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
387. # [12:35] <mounir> annevk: what's the simplest/quickest way to check if an array is a js-array?
388. # [12:35] <annevk> mounir: use isArray maybe
389. # [12:36] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
390. # [12:36] <mounir> annevk: that wouldn't return true for a non-js array?
391. # [12:37] <annevk> mounir: it shouldn't
392. # [12:37] <mounir> it seems that the Blink bindings return a JS array then
393. # [12:37] <annevk> mounir: another test you could do is push a number or string on the array and see if it's there
394. # [12:38] * Quits: satazor_ (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
395. # [12:38] * Joins: satazor_ (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
396. # [12:39] <mounir> annevk: working in Blink, failing in Gecko
397. # [12:40] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@220.225.242.27) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
398. # [12:40] <annevk> weird
399. # [12:41] <mounir> annevk: it says that l.push() isn't extensible in Gecko
400. # [12:41] <annevk> mounir: but Array.isArray(obj) returns true in Gecko?
401. # [12:42] <mounir> yep
402. # [12:42] <annevk> o_O
403. # [12:42] <annevk> "ask bz"
404. # [12:43] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@130.185.155.130) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
405. # [12:47] <mounir> annevk: I probably did something wrong ;)
406. # [12:47] * Quits: diffalot (~diffalot@76.107.128.104) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
407. # [12:48] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
408. # [12:51] * Joins: diffalot (~diffalot@c-76-107-128-104.hsd1.ms.comcast.net)
409. # [12:52] * Joins: arpitab__ (uid10516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-grcuakpwmoqnefrs)
410. # [12:57] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
411. # [12:59] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
412. # [12:59] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231)
413. # [13:01] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
414. # [13:20] * Quits: dshwang (~dshwang@134.134.137.75) (Remote host closed the connection)
415. # [13:25] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@185.3.135.2)
416. # [13:29] <foolip> MikeSmith: I've commented on the open issues
417. # [13:30] * Joins: dshwang (~dshwang@192.55.54.42)
418. # [13:35] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
419. # [13:37] <tobie> Sounds like I'm not the only one utterly confused by the []/sequence, etc. mess.
420. # [13:37] <MikeSmith> foolip: thanks much
421. # [13:38] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
422. # [13:39] <tobie> annevk: isn't sequence<foo> just saying: this function/attribute will duck-type?
423. # [13:40] <TabAtkins> So, if I'm returning a Promise which will resolve to a JS array of FontFace objects, the right type for the return value is Promise<sequence<FontFace>>, right?
424. # [13:40] * TabAtkins put that in Font Loading today, so he hopes it's right.
425. # [13:40] <tobie> yup
426. # [13:40] <TabAtkins> kk
427. # [13:41] <tobie> actually, I'm not sure you can use sequence<foo> for return types.
428. # [13:42] <annevk> tobie: as argument it means the implementation will iterate over the object (using Symbol.iterator) to get the list of values; as return value it means JS Array
429. # [13:42] <TabAtkins> ARGH
430. # [13:42] <TabAtkins> annevk: Okay, cool.
431. # [13:42] <tobie> oh. OK.
432. # [13:46] * mpt_ is now known as mpt
433. # [13:46] <tobie> It would be helpful to use different syntax for these two different things.
434. # [13:46] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@113.199.41.81)
435. # [13:47] <tobie> Why don't we use Array<Foo> for the return type?
436. # [13:53] * Quits: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-198-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
437. # [13:55] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@q023013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
438. # [13:55] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@q023013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Client Quit)
439. # [13:58] <tobie> Looking at the WebIDL bug tracker, I get a better sense of what annevk, Ms2ger were referring to.
440. # [14:00] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
441. # [14:03] <barnabywalters> anyone here know if work to add native Promise support to XMLHttpRequest is being done somewhere?
442. # [14:03] <zcorpan> barnabywalters: i think that will be called "fetch()"
443. # [14:04] <annevk> tobie: see above where I said we should have different syntax for argument / return value (or get vs set)
444. # [14:04] <barnabywalters> zcorpan: interesting, do you have a URL to a spec? I couldn’t find one easily, might not be looking in the right places
445. # [14:05] <zcorpan> barnabywalters: i saw something in ServiceWorker but it's wasn't fleshed out when i looked at it
446. # [14:05] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Yeah. I mean, pretty much everyone using IE6 isn't using a server OS, but still. :)
447. # [14:05] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@q023013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
448. # [14:05] <tobie> annevk: yeah. I guess it's inevitable with a not strongly typed language.
449. # [14:06] <annevk> tobie: ToPromise / Promise; Iterable / Array
450. # [14:06] <tobie> annevk: on second thought, I'm not even sure strong type has anything to do with it.
451. # [14:06] <tobie> annevk: ++
452. # [14:07] * Joins: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-198-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
453. # [14:07] <tobie> annevk: how does that work for attributes which are rw?
454. # [14:08] <annevk> tobie: I think for properties we need to be more clear on whether they have getter/setter or are a data property
455. # [14:08] <annevk> tobie: currently everything is a getter/setter, but that seems somewhat wrong
456. # [14:09] <barnabywalters> zcorpan: hrm okay, might try diving into ServiceWorker then
457. # [14:09] * Quits: rcombs (~rcombs@rcombs.me) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
458. # [14:10] <tobie> barnabywalters: there's also the fetch spec.
459. # [14:10] <barnabywalters> tobie: that sounds good — link?
460. # [14:10] <annevk> barnabywalters: the idea is fetch(Request req).then(Response r => ...)
461. # [14:10] <barnabywalters> http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/?
462. # [14:10] <tobie> barnabywalters: yes
463. # [14:10] <tobie> but the fetch JS API isn't defined there.
464. # [14:11] <annevk> barnabywalters: that's where the API will eventually end up, currently it's just defining the network stack
465. # [14:11] <barnabywalters> annevk: ah so xhr is being split into Request and Response objects now?
466. # [14:11] <annevk> barnabywalters: roughly
467. # [14:11] * Joins: deane (~Thunderbi@124-197-19-37.callplus.net.nz)
468. # [14:11] <annevk> barnabywalters: if you look at http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/ you'll see it's defined in terms of Fetch too
469. # [14:12] * Joins: rcombs (~rcombs@rcombs.me)
470. # [14:13] <TabAtkins> annevk: I'd be happy if WebIDL arguments were all named interface-like and return types were named object-like.
471. # [14:13] <barnabywalters> annevk: tobie: thanks, I’ll have a read through those
472. # [14:14] <annevk> TabAtkins: I'm not sure what that means I'm afraid; we do have some ideas on revamping the whole interface / [NoInterfaceObject] mess in terms of classes and such
473. # [14:17] * Joins: tav (~tav`@37.157.36.218)
474. # [14:18] * Quits: tav (~tav`@37.157.36.218) (Client Quit)
475. # [14:24] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
476. # [14:25] * Joins: iancrowther (~iancrowth@195.59.147.60)
477. # [14:26] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se)
478. # [14:28] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:eba:2cf1:d350:5f1b:a0cb)
479. # [14:29] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
480. # [14:29] * Quits: ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
481. # [14:32] * Joins: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.cpe.webspeed.dk)
482. # [14:32] * Quits: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.cpe.webspeed.dk) (Client Quit)
483. # [14:33] * Joins: ivan`` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001)
484. # [14:34] * Quits: satazor_ (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
485. # [14:35] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
486. # [14:36] * Quits: ^esc (~esc-ape@178.165.129.73.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
487. # [14:37] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
488. # [14:39] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
489. # [14:39] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: pointer? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/showcomment?chain=3809
490. # [14:40] * Quits: dshwang (~dshwang@192.55.54.42) (Remote host closed the connection)
491. # [14:41] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: i can't see anything in www-archive :-(
492. # [14:42] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
493. # [14:42] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
494. # [14:43] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Client Quit)
495. # [14:46] <TabAtkins> annevk: Interface-like means names like "iterable" and "promise-like" and whatnot - adjectives, mostly. "object-like" are nouns.
496. # [14:47] <TabAtkins> Like difference between "functor" (terrible name, also a noun, so misleading) and "mappable" (accurately describes, indicates that it's a quality of an object)
497. # [14:48] * Joins: ^esc (~esc-ape@178.115.131.194.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
498. # [14:50] <zewt> functor: callable
499. # [14:51] <TabAtkins> That's part of why the name is so terrible, because it has nothing to do with "function".
500. # [14:51] <zewt> i guess functor is specifically a callable object (in C++), so in that case being a noun is correct
501. # [14:51] <TabAtkins> (A function *is a* functor, but for reasons that have nothing to do with calling.)
502. # [14:52] <TabAtkins> A functor is any object with a .map() operation or equivalent - it holds some values/values in a container or context, and lets you pass functions inside of it to operate on the inner values and return the same context with the return values.
503. # [14:53] <zewt> i'm only talking about c++; i've never seen "functor" used in any other context (and I don't know why anyone would)
504. # [14:53] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231) (Quit: Leaving.)
505. # [14:53] <zewt> though I guess people call c++ functions functors too, for templates
506. # [14:53] <jgraham> functor in C++ means something entirely different to Haskell I think
507. # [14:54] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231)
508. # [14:54] <TabAtkins> Functor is a category theory term.
509. # [14:54] <jgraham> (I think that mappable is a terrible name)
510. # [14:54] <TabAtkins> It's a thing you can map. What better name could it have?
511. # [14:55] <jgraham> Well the problem might be that map is a bad name
512. # [14:55] <zewt> without knowing anything about it in advance, it sounds like "can be used as a the key in a dictionary"
513. # [14:55] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: did the @charset use counter ever materialize?
514. # [14:55] <zewt> (the effect of hashable in python)
515. # [14:57] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: No, I haven't actually coded any Blink since the fork.
516. # [14:57] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: ok
517. # [14:57] <annevk> thanks tobie for the ScalarValueString patch
518. # [14:58] <TabAtkins> zewt: The word "map" is pretty common in functional languages (including JS) to mean "call this on every element of the {array, set, etc} and give me a new container with the results".
519. # [14:58] <TabAtkins> Python's map(), JS's Array#map, etc.
520. # [14:58] <TabAtkins> JS also has a Map, to be sure, but Python calls it Dict to avoid confusion.
521. # [14:58] <TabAtkins> (Also, a Map is a functor. ^_^)
522. # [14:59] <zewt> TabAtkins: a terrible mechanism (python's comprehensions are 100x more readable), but i've never seen "map" adjectived
523. # [15:00] <zewt> okay, i only just noticed the "Show: [x] inherited" checkbox on the right of these docs http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.controls.treeviewitem(v=vs.110).aspx
524. # [15:01] <TabAtkins> Comprehensions are great, but not a replacement in all cases.
525. # [15:01] <TabAtkins> [foo(bar) for bar in bars] is worse than bars.map(foo)
526. # [15:01] <zewt> been growling at these horrible docs for making me squint through endless pages of inherited mess for days because they decided to have an obscure "[x] show pages of useless crap" default tucked off to the side
527. # [15:02] <zewt> TabAtkins: i prefer it, to me the extra typing is worth not having to parse two different patterns
528. # [15:02] <zewt> it's also nicer to have (foo(bar) for bar in bars) and {bar: foo(bar) for bar in bars} without having to change modes when i want a different type
529. # [15:03] * Joins: tav (~tav`@37.157.36.218)
530. # [15:04] <zcorpan> all i hear is "foo bar foo bar foo bar"
531. # [15:04] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
532. # [15:04] <TabAtkins> Yeah, the other comprehensions are quite nice.
533. # [15:06] <zewt> incidentally, special thanks to c# for adding comprehensions... in a different order, from foo in bar select foo
534. # [15:07] <zewt> just to make sure it's a pain for everyone to context switch
535. # [15:07] <darobin> I always thought "comprehensions" was what you wish you had when you saw Python code
536. # [15:08] <jgraham> darobin: Nah, it's what ruby doesn't give you
537. # [15:08] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
538. # [15:09] <zewt> darobintroooooll
539. # [15:09] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
540. # [15:09] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
541. # [15:09] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231) (Quit: Leaving.)
542. # [15:14] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
543. # [15:15] * Quits: smola (~smola@5.10.91.99-static.reverse.softlayer.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
544. # [15:16] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
545. # [15:19] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
546. # [15:20] * Joins: Joseph_Silber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net)
547. # [15:27] * Ms2ger wonders if http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=43394 is ever going to land
548. # [15:28] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
549. # [15:30] * Joins: felipeduardo (~felipedua@177.41.247.137)
550. # [15:31] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: "any time now"
551. # [15:32] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
552. # [15:35] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-15-151.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
553. # [15:35] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-15-151.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
554. # [15:36] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
555. # [15:37] * Joins: satazor_ (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
556. # [15:40] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
557. # [15:56] <TabAtkins> Note that it's still receiving useful activity. We keep poking at it and trying it out, but it keeps causing perf regressions.
558. # [15:57] <TabAtkins> But they're getting smaller and smaller.
559. # [15:57] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
560. # [15:59] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: w3c-test:mirror seems like it doesn't bite for me again :-(
561. # [16:00] <Ms2ger> Without a space?
562. # [16:00] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/996
563. # [16:00] <zcorpan> should there be a space?
564. # [16:01] <Ms2ger> That's what I've done, I think
565. # [16:01] <zcorpan> no dice
566. # [16:02] <jgraham> zcorpan: There is (theoretically) never any point in putting w3c-test:mirror on your own PR
567. # [16:02] * Joins: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-rpdvpbbcaoubwglw)
568. # [16:02] * Quits: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-rpdvpbbcaoubwglw) (Changing host)
569. # [16:02] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
570. # [16:02] <jgraham> If you have permissions to mirror stuff your own PRs should be automatically mirrored
571. # [16:02] <jgraham> So you either don't have permissions or (more likely) the script is broken
572. # [16:02] <zcorpan> yeah ok
573. # [16:04] <mathiasbynens> hsivonen: validator.nu seems down again
574. # [16:08] <annevk> JakeA: we need a story for fetch() outside service workers
575. # [16:08] <annevk> JakeA: I don't think we can squat a global name like that
576. # [16:08] <annevk> JakeA: is it going to be navigator.fetch() outside of workers?
577. # [16:11] <JakeA> annevk: why is window.fetch bad? Likely to be taken by app code?
578. # [16:11] <annevk> JakeA: yeah, taking global names is icky
579. # [16:11] <annevk> JakeA: I'm open to try it I guess
580. # [16:12] <JakeA> annevk: What about Cache and caches?
581. # [16:15] <zcorpan> fetch seems a bit weird to put on navigator
582. # [16:15] <annevk> JakeA: dunno
583. # [16:15] <Ms2ger> location.fetch()
584. # [16:16] <jgraham> Ms2ger is winning
585. # [16:16] <zcorpan> URL.fetch() ?
586. # [16:16] <jgraham> zcorpan takes the lead
587. # [16:16] <Ms2ger> Blob.fetch()
588. # [16:16] <zcorpan> Fetch.fetch()
589. # [16:16] <jgraham> Ms2ger crashes into a wall
590. # [16:16] <Ms2ger> :D
591. # [16:17] <JakeA> f.etch()
592. # [16:17] <Ms2ger> .sketch()?
593. # [16:17] <zcorpan> JakeA: f is unlikely to be taken, seems ok
594. # [16:17] <jgraham> This has gone very Wacky Races all of a sudden
595. # [16:18] <jgraham> With JakeA playing Dastardly
596. # [16:19] <JakeA> haha
597. # [16:20] <JakeA> window.fetch, caches, Cache would obviously be my first choice…
598. # [16:20] * Quits: Joseph_Silber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
599. # [16:20] <JakeA> window.fetchXML()
600. # [16:20] <JakeA> but it can be used (and will mainly be used) to fetch not-XML
601. # [16:21] <gsnedders> jgraham: Do you want me to rewrite the history of https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/287 before you review it?
602. # [16:21] <Ms2ger> XMLHttpRequest.fetchHTML()
603. # [16:21] <JakeA> haha
604. # [16:21] <Ms2ger> XMLHttpRequest.fetchHTMLSpdy()
605. # [16:21] * Quits: tav (~tav`@37.157.36.218) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
606. # [16:21] <JakeA> The problem with putting it on navigator is it won't be on navigator in the SW
607. # [16:22] <jgraham> The problem with putting it on navigator is that it makes no sense
608. # [16:22] <jgraham> It just ends up as a duming ground for things we were too scared to put on window
609. # [16:23] <jgraham> *dumping
610. # [16:23] <jgraham> gsnedders: Yes
611. # [16:23] <JakeA> like navigator.serviceWorker :D
612. # [16:24] <jgraham> Yeah, pretty much. Things only make sense on navigator if they don't depend on the Window
613. # [16:30] <annevk> jgraham: navigator is a dumping ground
614. # [16:33] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Remote host closed the connection)
615. # [16:33] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@113.199.41.81) (Remote host closed the connection)
616. # [16:34] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@113.199.41.81)
617. # [16:35] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140)
618. # [16:37] * Quits: iancrowther (~iancrowth@195.59.147.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
619. # [16:38] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@113.199.41.81) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
620. # [16:39] <jgraham> annevk: Perhaps, but it's not good
621. # [16:43] <Domenic> annevk: you could block on modules!??!
622. # [16:44] <annevk> Domenic: block service workers on modules?
623. # [16:44] <Domenic> annevk: I assume fetch-outside-workers doesn't block service workers...
624. # [16:48] <jgraham> You could add a .send() method to Request
625. # [16:49] <annevk> new Request(...).send().then(r => ...)
626. # [16:51] <Domenic> hmm
627. # [16:51] <gsnedders> jgraham: there's no prepare rebase link on Critic on that page?
628. # [16:51] <tobie> Request.fetch?
629. # [16:51] <Domenic> feels enough like XHR to trigger some bad feels
630. # [16:51] <Domenic> Request.fetch seems better
631. # [16:54] <tobie> Would be nice to ship fetch outside of SW at the same time (or even before) it is shipped within SW.
632. # [16:54] <jgraham> Do you "fetch" a Request? Surely you "send" a Request?
633. # [16:54] <jgraham> gsnedders: No, you do the opposite
634. # [16:54] <gsnedders> jgraham: huh?
635. # [16:54] <jgraham> gsnedders: https://github.com/mozilla/servo/wiki/Github-&-Critic-PR-handling-101
636. # [16:54] <Domenic> if it's a method on Request.prototype, then send. But if it's a static factory method, then fetch seems better.
637. # [16:55] <tobie> ^ that
638. # [16:55] <annevk> you fetch a response using a request
639. # [16:55] <tobie> IO.fetch
640. # [16:55] * Joins: iancrowther (~iancrowth@195.59.147.60)
641. # [16:55] <jgraham> Request.fetch(request) is going to sound very odd
642. # [16:55] <annevk> jgraham: agreed
643. # [16:55] <gsnedders> jgraham: the first commit on the branch and not the merge-base?
644. # [16:55] <jgraham> Even though it is probably no more verbose than other options, it feels like it is due to the repetition
645. # [16:56] <jgraham> gsnedders: Do your rebase, force push, follow the steps to update critic.
646. # [16:56] <gsnedders> jgraham: I'm following the steps. "Ask for help if this step is daunting"
647. # [16:56] * Quits: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gpzhcneosydwfupd) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
648. # [16:57] <jgraham> Heh
649. # [16:57] <annevk> this latest email to webkit-dev...
650. # [16:57] <annevk> MikeSmith is gonna love it
651. # [16:57] <gsnedders> jgraham: The parent of the first commit on the branch? So the merge-base?
652. # [16:57] <jgraham> gsnedders: It's the SHA1 of the parent of the first commit on the branch
653. # [16:57] <jgraham> gsnedders: Yes.
654. # [16:58] <gsnedders> jgraham: Okay, done
655. # [16:58] <jgraham> gsnedders: Basically critic constructs a diff of the post-rebase branch compared to the pre-rebase branch
656. # [16:58] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
657. # [16:58] <jgraham> So you need to tell it where the post-rebase branch starts
658. # [16:59] <gsnedders> jgraham: Note that this still fails a whole load of tests, but mostly because the tests are kinda broken
659. # [16:59] <tobie> annevk: np. thanks for merging it (SW patch).
660. # [17:02] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
661. # [17:03] <gsnedders> jgraham: Why is the review not tracking any more?
662. # [17:04] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
663. # [17:05] <Domenic> I didn't realize that fetch() accepted a request. in that case there should almost certainly be a Request.prototype.send() for when you already have a Request object
664. # [17:05] <jgraham> gsnedders: You need to reenable that
665. # [17:06] <Domenic> fetch(), wherever it ends up, seems mostly for the URL-accepting case to me.
666. # [17:06] <tobie> annevk, seems you didn't push it to gh-pages though.
667. # [17:08] <tobie> annevk: which reminds of https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/266
668. # [17:08] <annevk> Domenic: you want Request for all the additional parameters
669. # [17:09] <gsnedders> jgraham: I pressed the button. Nothing happeend.
670. # [17:10] <Domenic> annevk: you could add those as an options object to fetch, hmm. fetch(url, { timeout: 5000 }) vs. (new Request({ url: url, timeout: 5000 }).send()
671. # [17:10] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, force-refresh
672. # [17:10] * Quits: satazor_ (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
673. # [17:10] <Domenic> woah why is there a synchronous flag O_O
674. # [17:11] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
675. # [17:11] <jgraham> gsnedders: Force reload
676. # [17:11] <jgraham> gsnedders: Then blame jl
677. # [17:12] * Joins: satazor_ (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
678. # [17:13] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
679. # [17:15] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
680. # [17:15] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@q023013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Quit: jdaggett)
681. # [17:16] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
682. # [17:17] * Joins: tav (~tav`@37.157.36.218)
683. # [17:19] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
684. # [17:23] <gsnedders> I blame jl.
685. # [17:23] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
686. # [17:26] * Joins: tj_vantoll1 (~Adium@98.250.130.237)
687. # [17:28] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:eba:2cf1:d350:5f1b:a0cb) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
688. # [17:36] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
689. # [17:37] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
690. # [17:38] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.59.82.22)
691. # [17:39] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@37-219-45-123.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi)
692. # [17:39] * Quits: tav (~tav`@37.157.36.218) (Quit: tav)
693. # [17:40] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.59.82.22) (Client Quit)
694. # [17:41] * Quits: satazor_ (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
695. # [17:41] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
696. # [17:45] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@37-219-45-123.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
697. # [17:45] * wycats___ is now known as wycats
698. # [17:46] * Joins: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
699. # [17:46] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.210)
700. # [17:48] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
701. # [17:48] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@92.248.142.152)
702. # [17:51] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140) (Remote host closed the connection)
703. # [17:54] <annevk> Domenic: I think I filed a bug on that, if that's exposed it should only be readonly
704. # [17:55] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
705. # [17:55] <Domenic> annevk: when is it useful?
706. # [17:56] <annevk> Domenic: I guess a service worker might want to know about synchronous requests so it can log errors somewhere for the frontend team
707. # [17:56] <Domenic> annevk: ah right i forgot to context switch from fetch to SW's onfetch
708. # [17:57] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
709. # [17:57] * Joins: bengl (~bengl@91.219.238.88)
710. # [18:02] * Joins: mven (~textual@169.241.49.202)
711. # [18:08] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
712. # [18:11] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:e44a:e35e:464a:4604)
713. # [18:17] * Quits: mven (~textual@169.241.49.202) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
714. # [18:19] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
715. # [18:22] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
716. # [18:22] <annevk> Domenic: I think the idea for fetch() was String or Request
717. # [18:22] <Domenic> annevk: yeah, I guess, just thinking of what people are used to from jQuery etc.
718. # [18:23] <annevk> Domenic: or a dictionary
719. # [18:23] <Domenic> it's a small step from dictionary to string + dictionary ;)
720. # [18:23] <annevk> fetch({url:...}) should work I think
721. # [18:23] <Domenic> the nice thing about fetch(url, {...}) is that it's an easy change from code that does fetch(url)
722. # [18:24] <jgraham> Putting a non-optional parameter into a dict seems ugly
723. # [18:25] <Domenic> that too
724. # [18:25] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.202.46.221) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
725. # [18:26] <annevk> I guess that's fair, ideally we align the Request constructor with that pattern
726. # [18:26] <annevk> I should probably take ownership at some point, not moving very quickly at the moment
727. # [18:26] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.181) (Quit: adactio)
728. # [18:27] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231)
729. # [18:28] <tobie> node.js request accepts both req(url, options) and req({url: url, options... })
730. # [18:28] <tobie> fwiw
731. # [18:28] <Ms2ger> That seems somewhat unhelpful
732. # [18:30] * Joins: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@173.247.197.10)
733. # [18:31] * Quits: Ablu (~ablu@quassel.woboq.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
734. # [18:31] <tobie> Ms2ger: people tend to have strongly diverging opinions when it comes to API design.
735. # [18:32] * Joins: Ablu (~ablu@quassel.woboq.com)
736. # [18:32] <Domenic> jQuery also accepts both
737. # [18:32] <Domenic> i kind of dislike the both approach also, but not strongly
738. # [18:33] * Joins: llkats (~llkats@c-67-180-182-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
739. # [18:36] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-gzonfgsawpjtulso)
740. # [18:41] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.59.82.22)
741. # [18:42] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.59.82.22) (Client Quit)
742. # [18:46] <JakeA> Domenic: annevk: fetch(url) is not as common as maybe originally thought. I'm happy to ditch fetch() for request.send()
743. # [18:46] <JakeA> As long as new Request(url) works
744. # [18:46] <Domenic> JakeA: hmm why is that? $.get(url) is very common...
745. # [18:47] <JakeA> Domenic: actually, I was thinking of ServiceWorker, in a page fetch(url) would be common
746. # [18:48] <JakeA> But new Request(url) seems ok to me. Happy to be wrong though. Feels like a smaller footprint for the window object
747. # [18:49] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
748. # [18:51] <annevk> JakeA: we can do fetch(url, rest); new Request(url, rest); fetch(Request); and maybe new Request(Request) (for downgrading a UA-generated object)
749. # [18:52] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.59.82.22)
750. # [18:52] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.59.82.22) (Client Quit)
751. # [18:52] <jsbell> annevk's suggestion is what I had in my head (apart from Request(Request) but that makes perfect sense)
752. # [18:56] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
753. # [18:58] <JakeA> So function fetch(args...) { return new Request(arts)}
754. # [18:58] <JakeA> Ffs, coding on phone
755. # [18:59] <JakeA> So function fetch(args...) { return new Request(args...).send(); }
756. # [18:59] <Ms2ger> ...args?
757. # [19:00] <JakeA> Yeah, that, probably (can never remember which side the ... goes on)
758. # [19:03] <jsbell> If it was exactly that, it auto-downgrades a UA-generated object.
759. # [19:03] <Domenic> I like that
760. # [19:06] <jsbell> BTW, is there a doc/thread yet, or just noodling here? (I'm catching up on email after being away for a bit, so may discover it shortly)
761. # [19:06] * Joins: mven (~textual@169.241.49.202)
762. # [19:07] * Quits: iancrowther (~iancrowth@195.59.147.60) (Remote host closed the connection)
763. # [19:10] * Joins: boogyman (~Adium@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
764. # [19:12] <annevk> jsbell: noodling here
765. # [19:13] <jsbell> thx
766. # [19:13] <JakeA> What do we mean by downgrades?
767. # [19:13] <JakeA> That happens on .send() right? It becomes "connect" in CSP terms
768. # [19:20] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.202.50.223)
769. # [19:32] * Quits: mven (~textual@169.241.49.202) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
770. # [19:32] <annevk> JakeA: yeah, I was thinking we could offer explicit syntax for it as well so people can reason about it without doing a fetch
771. # [19:32] <annevk> JakeA: I'm not sure I like the .send() design
772. # [19:33] * Joins: mven (~textual@169.241.49.202)
773. # [19:33] * Quits: mven (~textual@169.241.49.202) (Max SendQ exceeded)
774. # [19:38] <annevk> On the other hand, if we name it .send() there's less of a confusion between fetching and fetch()
775. # [19:38] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
776. # [19:46] * Joins: Sall (56342a6a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.52.42.106)
777. # [19:46] <Hixie> zcorpan: i figured i would filter the incoming bugs for you rather than just automatically send img bugs to you
778. # [19:47] <Hixie> TabAtkins: autorotate="" is in zcorpan's area now, unfortunately, but maybe i can send him a patch or something
779. # [19:47] <Hixie> as far as the fading thing goes, yeah, i don't like it either
780. # [19:48] <Hixie> i'm trying to figure out how to address the feedback that some people have asking for the spec to be less busy, while still addressing the needs of people like me who use the styles to understand what's going on.
781. # [19:48] * Parts: Sall (56342a6a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.52.42.106)
782. # [19:49] <annevk> and here I thought my browser had a bug
783. # [19:50] * Quits: deane (~Thunderbi@124-197-19-37.callplus.net.nz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
784. # [19:51] <jgraham> Uh yeah. That seems like a bad idea
785. # [19:51] <jgraham> Why not just drop the underlines?
786. # [19:53] <Hixie> there are two groups of people i'm trying to cater for. group A wants no colour and no underlines. Group B wants colour and underlines.
787. # [19:54] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@172.56.38.122)
788. # [19:54] <Hixie> (group A basically wants no hyperlinks visible, the point as far as i can tell is to feel like you're reading a book rather than feel like you're reading a spec with deep links everywhere.)
789. # [19:54] <Hixie> (group B might be just me.)
790. # [19:54] <jgraham> Since I apparently don't fall into either group, I doubt your characterisation is accurate
791. # [19:55] <Hixie> well it's quite likely there are other groups that i should also be trying to cater for, but those were the groups i was trying to cater for.
792. # [19:57] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@0897578511.static.corbina.ru)
793. # [19:57] <boogyman> Hixie: I don't think it would be terribly difficult to use alternate stylesheets, right? The question there though is what interface to use to switch between them.
794. # [19:57] <jgraham> I think that hypertext is a great thing and I think it is especially great in the spec, since you basically can't understand it without following links. So I think the "Group A" people have either been mischaracterised or don't really want what they say they want. OTOH I think that underlines are a particularly poor typographical technique since they compete with the letters themselves
795. # [19:57] <Hixie> boogyman: most users don't touch that kind of UI
796. # [19:58] <Hixie> boogyman: so it doesn't solve the problem
797. # [19:58] <IZh> Hixie: Hi. What's the purpose of lots of empty <span></span> in the spec?
798. # [19:59] * Joins: mven_ (~mven@169.241.49.57)
799. # [20:00] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@172.56.38.122) (Quit: tantek)
800. # [20:00] <jgraham> http://www2003.org/cdrom/papers/refereed/p391/p391-obendorf.html seems relevant
801. # [20:01] <Hixie> jgraham: the feedback specifically is things like "i wish it didn't look like a christmas tree", "too bright and contrasty", "don't like the colour formatting", "excessive hyperlinks make it too busy", "it's a little cluttered and busy", "it's not the prettiest thing in the world", "dislike layout & font", "looks cheap", "ugly colors", "when everything is highlighted italic red green or blue it is hard to distinguish content"
802. # [20:01] <jgraham> "Underlined links seem to substantially decrease the reading performance on Web pages and may add to the reasons why users donít like to read on the Web"
803. # [20:02] <jgraham> Hixie: Those are all arguments in favour of more subtle design, not in favour of removing the most important elements needed to navigate the spec.
804. # [20:02] <Hixie> (not clear that whoever formatted that page is allowed to comment on formatting, but... *reads*)
805. # [20:03] <Hixie> jgraham: concrete suggestions welcome
806. # [20:03] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@172.56.38.122)
807. # [20:05] * Joins: Areks_home (~Areks@89.178.155.119)
808. # [20:06] <jgraham> Hixie: Well so far I made one
809. # [20:06] <Hixie> "To reduce the influence that different degrees of interest in the test items would have, we selected a very homogeneous user group. The target group consisted of regular and experienced internet users, as we wanted to assess the willingness of these users to adopt changes in the Web interface."
810. # [20:06] <Hixie> +1 for making a plausible argument for why they only selected people within shouting distance of their office :-)
811. # [20:07] <IZh> Hixie: Sorry. It seems there are no in latest version.
812. # [20:08] <Hixie> IZh: hey, sorry, missed your question. dunno what could cause that, but probably a markup error on my side.
813. # [20:08] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@46-239-239-203.tal.is) (Quit: barnabywalters)
814. # [20:09] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@172.56.38.122) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
815. # [20:10] <jgraham> Hixie: I also think that the green and the blue and the yellow don't really go together. The green italic text is quite hard to read, and I wonder if CSS-style boxes with a background colour and black text would work better for notes (more like examples)
816. # [20:12] <jgraham> I am terrible at design though so I am really the wrong person to fix things
817. # [20:12] <IZh> Hixie: please look at 4.12.4.2.7 at definition list after "Run the appropriate step..." It consists of only <dd> and no <dt>. Is it correct?
818. # [20:12] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@172.56.38.122)
819. # [20:13] <Hixie> jgraham: that paper's interesting, but the conclusion for the spec isn't to get rid of underlines and even less to make hyperlinks only visible on demand, imho. Assuming we treat reading the spec as more like their "link" tasks, it would suggest hyperlinks should be always visible (fewer errors in that case), and looking at the feedback of their overlay vs underline thing, it seems like a toss-up regarding which people like best.
820. # [20:14] <Hixie> jgraham: yeah, same here
821. # [20:14] <Hixie> jgraham: what's yellow?
822. # [20:14] <Ms2ger> The sun?
823. # [20:14] <Hixie> in the spec, doofus
824. # [20:15] <Hixie> IZh: what's the heading of that section?
825. # [20:15] <Hixie> IZh: (i don't have section numbers in the source)
826. # [20:15] <IZh> Hixie: Path2d objects
827. # [20:16] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@172.56.38.122) (Client Quit)
828. # [20:16] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.59.210.69)
829. # [20:17] <Hixie> that's weird, wonder why the validator didn't catch that
830. # [20:17] <Hixie> IZh: fixed, thanks
831. # [20:17] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.59.210.69) (Client Quit)
832. # [20:18] <IZh> Hixie: I have bought one commercial validator. And of course couldn't test it against the spec. ;-)
833. # [20:18] <annevk> There's commercial validators now?
834. # [20:19] <jgraham> Hixie: Links on hover are yellow. And link targets
835. # [20:19] <IZh> Hixie: I mean couldn't not test ;-)
836. # [20:20] <IZh> annevk: Yes. There are some good.
837. # [20:20] <Hixie> jgraham: oh the hover effect, ok
838. # [20:20] * Joins: mven (~textual@169.241.49.202)
839. # [20:21] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
840. # [20:21] <annevk> Hixie: I like the new Example / Note / Warning / etc. thing
841. # [20:21] <jgraham> Hixie: I think the conclusions of the study are a) too suble link styling makes people not use links and b) too invasive link styling makes text hard to read. I think that dropping the underlines will help with linear reading
842. # [20:21] <IZh> Hixie: by the way, what is the source for the spec? Xml?
843. # [20:21] <jgraham> I doubt it will make the links invisible, so I don't think we'll hit the error case
844. # [20:23] <Hixie> IZh: some weird variant of HTML with preprocessor directives
845. # [20:24] <Hixie> jgraham: they specifically say in the study (without data sadly) that they think that links that are only distinguished by colour are too subtle (they think it would be the same as tplain text), so that would be case (a)
846. # [20:24] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
847. # [20:24] <IZh> Hixie: validator also complains about very long lines. There is, for example, the table of named entities, that is only single line.
848. # [20:24] <jgraham> Hixie: They say without data is about as valuable as I say the opposite without data :)
849. # [20:25] <jgraham> Except that they are presumably trying to justify not taking the time to test that case
850. # [20:25] <Hixie> IZh: that
851. # [20:25] <Hixie> IZh: that's an error in the validator :-)
852. # [20:26] <Hixie> jgraham: exactly :-)
853. # [20:26] <IZh> Hixie: it only complains about syntax highlighting. Also is is not very huumsn
854. # [20:26] <IZh> Hixie: human readable
855. # [20:27] * jgraham discovers that http://usability.gov doesn't underline links
856. # [20:27] <jgraham> Actually I think the fact that so many sites now don't underline links sort of puts the anecdata on my side of the argument
857. # [20:28] <IZh> Hixie: and some browsers performed bad when you try to view source of the document with such long lines.
858. # [20:28] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.202.50.223) (Quit: weinig)
859. # [20:29] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
860. # [20:30] <Hixie> i find sites that don't underline links very confusing, personally
861. # [20:31] * Joins: victorbjelkholm (~victorbje@41.Red-83-60-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
862. # [20:31] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
863. # [20:32] <annevk> I think I agree with jgraham
864. # [20:33] <annevk> color is quite a good indicator and the underline makes the text harder to parse
865. # [20:33] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@0897578511.static.corbina.ru) (Remote host closed the connection)
866. # [20:33] * Joins: IZh_ (~Igor_Zhba@0897578511.static.corbina.ru)
867. # [20:33] * IZh_ is now known as IZh
868. # [20:34] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.4.171)
869. # [20:38] <Hixie> so without the underline, how do you distinguish a <code> snippet that's a link from one that isn't?
870. # [20:38] <IZh> Hixie: one long line contains 314187 characters. :-)
871. # [20:38] <Hixie> IZh: yeah, it's machine-generted :-)
872. # [20:41] * Quits: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@173.247.197.10) (Quit: jeffreyatw)
873. # [20:42] <IZh> Hixie: the links to [CSSFONTLOAD] and [PAGEVIS] at the end of the spec are 404.
874. # [20:42] <annevk> Hixie: maybe that should have the color of :link / :visited and simply use monospace
875. # [20:43] <Hixie> annevk, sicking: ok, reload a whatwg spec, tell me how bad it is...
876. # [20:43] <annevk> Hixie: :hover / :focus could add the underline
877. # [20:44] <Hixie> IZh: sigh, w3c
878. # [20:44] <annevk> Hixie: in http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-url TypeError is grey
879. # [20:44] <Hixie> anyone know the currently URLs of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-font-load-events/ and http://www.w3c-test.org/webperf/specs/PageVisibility/ ?
880. # [20:44] <Hixie> annevk: yeah, that's a non-hyperlink, non-definition <Ccode> block.
881. # [20:44] <Hixie> <code> even
882. # [20:45] <annevk> so only code that's hyperlink or <dfn> is orange?
883. # [20:45] <IZh> Hixie: Is this it? http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-font-loading/
884. # [20:45] <annevk> TabAtkins: ^^ might want to set up redirects
885. # [20:46] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@2a01:e34:ed05:d180:ac89:b2e0:acb5:ad3f)
886. # [20:46] <IZh> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-font-loading/
887. # [20:46] <IZh> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-fonts-3/
888. # [20:46] <annevk> Hixie: there's http://www.w3.org/TR/page-visibility/ can't find editor's draft :/
889. # [20:46] <Hixie> IZh: none of those seem to define FontLoader... i wonder if FontLoader is dead or something
890. # [20:47] <Hixie> annevk: currently, yeah
891. # [20:47] * Joins: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon)
892. # [20:47] <Hixie> annevk: i've no idea if that's reasonable
893. # [20:47] <annevk> Hixie: FontLoader is dead I think
894. # [20:47] <Hixie> huh
895. # [20:47] <Hixie> guess i'd better file a bug to handle that...
896. # [20:47] <annevk> Hixie: no editor's draft would mean no maintenance
897. # [20:48] <annevk> Hixie: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-font-loading/ has an alternative AIP
898. # [20:48] <IZh> Hixie: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-css3-fonts-20121211/ The old one defines it.
899. # [20:48] <annevk> API*
900. # [20:48] <Hixie> file a bug
901. # [20:48] <Hixie> er
902. # [20:48] <Hixie> fileD a bug
903. # [20:48] <Hixie> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25812
904. # [20:48] <Hixie> IZh: (thanks for finding these!)
905. # [20:50] * Joins: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@173.247.197.10)
906. # [20:50] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231)
907. # [20:54] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
908. # [20:58] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.4.171) (Quit: weinig)
909. # [21:04] * Joins: morrita_ (uid16889@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wchgzlklpxvcwoxj)
910. # [21:04] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.202.45.163)
911. # [21:05] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
912. # [21:08] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.37)
913. # [21:10] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
914. # [21:11] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
915. # [21:11] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt)
916. # [21:12] * Quits: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@173.247.197.10) (Quit: jeffreyatw)
917. # [21:13] <IZh> Hixie: Is it good or bad when quoted string attributes spans across several lines?
918. # [21:16] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-144-55.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
919. # [21:16] <IZh> Like: <a href=#syntax title="the
920. # [21:17] <IZh> HTML syntax">HTML syntax</a>
921. # [21:22] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Quit: back soonish)
922. # [21:22] * Joins: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@173.247.197.10)
923. # [21:26] * Quits: llkats (~llkats@c-67-180-182-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
924. # [21:27] * Quits: Areks_home (~Areks@89.178.155.119) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
925. # [21:28] <IZh> There are some of these in the spec.
926. # [21:31] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@80.78.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
927. # [21:31] <caitp> it works in current browsers, so presumably the parsing spec allows for it
928. # [21:32] <caitp> unless it's just a happy accident
929. # [21:35] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: tantek)
930. # [21:37] <IZh> Hixie: In the end of the section "The WorkerGlobalScope common interface" there is empty link <a href=#dom-workerglobalscope-location></a> before the word "attribute".
931. # [21:38] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
932. # [21:38] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@92.248.142.152) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
933. # [21:38] <IZh> Hixie: The same thing in the section "Standard metadata names": using the <code title=attr-lang><a href=#attr-lang></a></code> attribute...
934. # [21:39] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
935. # [21:39] * Quits: IZh (~Igor_Zhba@0897578511.static.corbina.ru) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.26/20140428215944])
936. # [21:40] <Hixie> izh: looking...
937. # [21:40] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@0897578511.static.corbina.ru)
938. # [21:40] <Hixie> TabAtkins: what's the state of the art with respect to positioning something relative to an ancestor element (e.g. one with position:relative) for 'top', and relative to another (e.g. the root element or ICB) for 'left'?
939. # [21:41] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.216.37) (Quit: weinig)
940. # [21:41] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231)
941. # [21:42] <Hixie> IZh: thanks, fixed
942. # [21:42] <SamB> Hixie: don't you need nasty hacks for that?
943. # [21:42] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@80.78.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
944. # [21:42] <Hixie> SamB: that's what i'm asking
945. # [21:42] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@80.78.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
946. # [21:42] <Hixie> so far for elaborate cases i'm not finding any real solutions
947. # [21:43] <Hixie> it's even worse because i have some elements with position:relative for unrelated reasons, too
948. # [21:43] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:e44a:e35e:464a:4604) (Quit: ap)
949. # [21:43] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@2a01:e34:ed05:d180:ac89:b2e0:acb5:ad3f) (Remote host closed the connection)
950. # [21:43] * Joins: ap (~ap@17.202.44.214)
951. # [21:44] <IZh> What's the purpose of &blank;? How it differs from ordinary space?
952. # [21:44] <Hixie> it's visible, for one
953. # [21:45] <Hixie> it's used to show that there is a space, in code examples where spaces matter
954. # [21:45] <Hixie> (this glyph used to be a lot more commonly used in computer manuals from a few decades ago)
955. # [21:45] <IZh> Ahh... Sonething like '_' ?
956. # [21:45] <Hixie> yeah
957. # [21:46] <Hixie> jgraham: i've changed the :target style to not be yellow too.
958. # [21:46] * Joins: marbleEye (~marbleEye@host86-145-211-9.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
959. # [21:47] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@80.78.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
960. # [21:48] * Joins: iancrowther (~iancrowth@host86-156-58-143.range86-156.btcentralplus.com)
961. # [21:49] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
962. # [21:51] * Parts: iancrowther (~iancrowth@host86-156-58-143.range86-156.btcentralplus.com)
963. # [21:52] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
964. # [21:52] <IZh> I'm curious, will ever document title support markup? ;-) I want green window caption. ;-)
965. # [21:52] * Quits: mattur_ (sid16049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nfoupbwsfgbimjal) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
966. # [21:53] * Quits: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqhyytsswtwhbpfb) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
967. # [21:53] * Quits: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gmdolvkzajuzdmzf) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
968. # [21:53] * Quits: htmelvis (~htmelvis@107.170.99.246) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
969. # [21:53] * Joins: mattur_ (sid16049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kosjhlfzwynuufpq)
970. # [21:53] * Quits: marbleEye (~marbleEye@host86-145-211-9.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving)
971. # [21:53] * Quits: Phae (sid455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymlvbfekyviuruqu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
972. # [21:53] * Quits: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eakxgfetliwphbuk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
973. # [21:54] * Quits: tobie (sid5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jyksetkccazqijqf) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
974. # [21:54] * Quits: rwaldron (rwaldron@gateway/shell/jquery.com/x-monihhakmdndrfum) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
975. # [21:54] * Quits: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opdzcyjhkhjrpylq) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
976. # [21:54] * Quits: astearns_ (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iqgealfmekpuzzbi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
977. # [21:54] * Quits: Krinkle (~Krinkle@wikimedia/Krinkle) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
978. # [21:54] * Quits: parshap_ (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztuukbdmjqmcubrw) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
979. # [21:54] * Quits: ryuone (~ryuone@133.242.55.223) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
980. # [21:54] * Quits: birtles_ (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqjcujnjlahxjcmf) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
981. # [21:54] * Quits: clamstar (~rx-ident@162.243.230.189) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
982. # [21:54] * Joins: astearns_ (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjsodijtxdtjjkvj)
983. # [21:54] * Quits: brainproxy (~brainprox@pdpc/supporter/gold/brainproxy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
984. # [21:54] * Joins: birtles_ (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ysiymsjszmdnksds)
985. # [21:55] * Quits: jorendorff (sid28423@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbrwmnngnapipwib) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
986. # [21:55] * Quits: tmfsd (sid26422@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bnpqwwitojhpivbl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
987. # [21:55] * Quits: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtfxlczqnfrtctfv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
988. # [21:55] * Quits: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oorrfeubundycrjn) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
989. # [21:55] * Quits: jory (~jory@supercu.be) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
990. # [21:55] * Quits: coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
991. # [21:55] * Quits: foolip (~philip@37.139.17.34) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
992. # [21:56] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
993. # [21:56] * Joins: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehnkvscnjvskzvwk)
994. # [21:56] * Joins: tobie (sid5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yhzxcjhagxmyjyun)
995. # [21:56] * Joins: Krinkle (~Krinkle@wikimedia/Krinkle)
996. # [21:56] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231)
997. # [21:56] * Joins: tmfsd (sid26422@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jokgsszvfavssvzn)
998. # [21:56] * Joins: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szdiubzfherrxugc)
999. # [21:56] * Joins: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-srqprcpjgmtimsmh)
1000. # [21:57] * Joins: jorendorff (sid28423@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nusmbscmwxdmrbbt)
1001. # [21:57] * Quits: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-samlcumxfbfjpwhq) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1002. # [21:57] * Joins: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mpyyqzjhfuapmriz)
1003. # [21:57] * Joins: parshap_ (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rntuzhtkxhptvobc)
1004. # [21:57] * Joins: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gevdqifacmmsaftp)
1005. # [21:58] * Joins: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drqxasbbrukseuos)
1006. # [22:00] * Joins: htmelvis_zzz (~htmelvis@107.170.99.246)
1007. # [22:00] * Joins: clamstar (~rx-ident@162.243.230.189)
1008. # [22:00] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.4.171)
1009. # [22:00] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.217.202)
1010. # [22:00] * Joins: Guest19805 (~jory@supercu.be)
1011. # [22:01] * Joins: marbleEye (~marbleEye@host86-145-211-9.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
1012. # [22:01] * Joins: rwaldron (rwaldron@gateway/shell/jquery.com/x-bemjabxvdejcqips)
1013. # [22:02] * Quits: marbleEye (~marbleEye@host86-145-211-9.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) (Client Quit)
1014. # [22:02] * Joins: foolip (~philip@37.139.17.34)
1015. # [22:03] * Joins: brainproxy (~brainprox@pdpc/supporter/gold/brainproxy)
1016. # [22:03] * Joins: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfcxmqkxceiukdam)
1017. # [22:04] <Hixie> IZh: given that document titles are getting less and less used in the UI, i doubt there's much demand to make them harder to implement :-)
1018. # [22:07] * Joins: ryuone (~ryuone@133.242.55.223)
1019. # [22:08] <jgraham> Hixie: I think that's a win
1020. # [22:08] * Joins: dshwang (dshwang@nat/intel/x-klnzxqqaadaxkmyu)
1021. # [22:09] * SamB is greatly saddened by the disuse of document titles :-(
1022. # [22:10] * Joins: Phae (sid455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vrrbymbdaekxepwu)
1023. # [22:10] <SamB> however, it's not bloody likely that they'll be getting any such fancy features
1024. # [22:11] <SamB> the places where they probably still are used -- normal WMs on *nix come to mind -- can't handle anything fancy anyway
1025. # [22:11] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@187.37.65.87)
1026. # [22:11] * Quits: dshwang (dshwang@nat/intel/x-klnzxqqaadaxkmyu) (Remote host closed the connection)
1027. # [22:12] * SamB sorta feels like it might be nice if stray tags were stripped rather than shown verbatim though
1028. # [22:13] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.217.202) (Quit: othermaciej)
1029. # [22:13] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1030. # [22:16] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1031. # [22:18] * Joins: dshwang (dshwang@nat/intel/x-qdwpuzvajnbclbgk)
1032. # [22:18] <IZh> One more question. Is it possible to change facicon ob the fly?
1033. # [22:19] * Joins: tav (~tav`@host31-52-138-103.range31-52.btcentralplus.com)
1034. # [22:20] <SamB> IZh: well, what happens if you change the relevant link element(s)?
1035. # [22:21] <IZh> SamB: perhaps it will work.
1036. # [22:23] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
1037. # [22:28] * Joins: coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95)
1038. # [22:28] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140)
1039. # [22:30] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
1040. # [22:32] <IZh> is available. And in the case of no connection it will display an error instead of old cached version. I spend lots of time in a waiting for cellular network to appear. Probably some pragmas could force the browsers to display old cached page when they can't fetch a new version instead of showing dumb error.
1041. # [22:32] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.217.202)
1042. # [22:33] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231)
1043. # [22:37] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@0897578511.static.corbina.ru) (Remote host closed the connection)
1044. # [22:39] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@185.3.135.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
1045. # [22:43] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1046. # [22:45] * Joins: Streusel (~Anonymous@unaffiliated/streusel)
1047. # [22:48] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
1048. # [22:49] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.202.43.222)
1049. # [22:55] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.4.171) (Quit: weinig)
1050. # [22:56] * Quits: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1051. # [22:58] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@80.78.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
1052. # [22:58] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
1053. # [22:59] * Joins: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
1054. # [23:07] * nm7000 is now known as systematik
1055. # [23:07] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.202.45.163) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1056. # [23:07] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@80.78.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
1057. # [23:07] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@187.37.65.87) (Remote host closed the connection)
1058. # [23:07] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@80.78.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
1059. # [23:08] * Parts: boogyman (~Adium@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
1060. # [23:12] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@80.78.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1061. # [23:13] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
1062. # [23:14] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.114.219.75)
1063. # [23:16] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@187.37.65.87)
1064. # [23:17] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.4.171)
1065. # [23:17] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.114.219.75) (Client Quit)
1066. # [23:18] * Quits: tj_vantoll1 (~Adium@98.250.130.237) (Quit: Leaving.)
1067. # [23:19] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.114.219.75)
1068. # [23:21] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@187.37.65.87) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1069. # [23:25] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@187.37.65.87)
1070. # [23:25] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.66.18)
1071. # [23:29] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.210)
1072. # [23:32] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@134.199-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: nn)
1073. # [23:33] <JonathanNeal> How are element queries coming along?
1074. # [23:35] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: Leaving.)
1075. # [23:36] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@187.37.65.87)
1076. # [23:39] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1077. # [23:39] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.4.171) (Quit: weinig)
1078. # [23:40] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
1079. # [23:46] * Quits: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
1080. # [23:49] * Quits: felipeduardo (~felipedua@177.41.247.137) (Quit: Leaving)
1081. # [23:50] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.114.219.75) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1082. # [23:52] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
1083. # [23:53] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
1084. # Session Close: Tue May 20 00:00:00 2014

The end :)