/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-07-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jul 06 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:07] <SimonSapin> "User agents are encouraged to expose parse errors somehow." Does anyone care about this in practice, outside of validators? http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#parse-error
  8. # [00:08] <SamB> SimonSapin: you mean, like, the Console?
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  10. # [00:09] <SimonSapin> SamB: yeah, for example, does any browser report non-fatal URL parse errors in their Console?
  11. # [00:10] <SamB> SimonSapin: I'm not sure; at the time when it would be doing that, the console usually gets cleared anyway
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  22. # [00:45] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: i think several browsers log HTML parse errors
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  24. # [00:46] <SimonSapin> zcorpan: There is at least one URL parse error that neither Chromium nor Firefox logs (this is how much testing I’ve done so far)
  25. # [00:47] <SimonSapin> (one URL parse error in the spec)
  26. # [00:47] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: the URL so spec isn't implemented yet is it?
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  28. # [00:47] <zcorpan> -so
  29. # [00:48] <SimonSapin> zcorpan: I don’t know, maybe not
  30. # [00:48] <SimonSapin> I’m implementing it in Rust, but it seems so far that only annevk cares about non-fatal URL parse errors
  31. # [00:50] <SimonSapin> detecting parse errors slightly increases the code complexity
  32. # [00:50] <SimonSapin> but then I have no good way to log them, for a library that way be used outside of a browser
  33. # [00:50] <SimonSapin> Does html5lib log parse errors?
  34. # [00:51] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: ^
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  36. # [00:51] <zcorpan> yes
  37. # [00:52] <SimonSapin> where do they go?
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  40. # [00:53] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: it can
  41. # [00:53] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: I think it always does
  42. # [00:54] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: there's some API from the parser, maybe errors or something?
  43. # [00:54] <gsnedders> idk
  44. # [00:54] <SimonSapin> looks like HTMLParser().errors is a list of tuples
  45. # [00:55] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: any opinion on URL parse errors?
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  47. # [00:57] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: what sort of opinions? :P
  48. # [00:58] <SimonSapin> should they be logged, or does nobody care?
  49. # [00:58] <gsnedders> out of scope
  50. # [00:58] <gsnedders> much like we don't report CSS parse errors
  51. # [00:58] <SimonSapin> I mean for a URL parsing library
  52. # [00:59] <gsnedders> It'd be nice to log them, at least optionally
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  56. # [01:10] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Also, note that people said nobody cared about exposing parse errors until HTML5 parsers suddenly started doing so
  57. # [01:11] <SamB> gsnedders: how else are they supposed to test that they had correctly *detected* them?
  58. # [01:12] <gsnedders> there's no requirement to detect them
  59. # [01:12] <gsnedders> just handle them correctly
  60. # [01:12] <gsnedders> and handling can be tested by checking the output DOM
  61. # [01:13] <SamB> yes, but it makes it harder to tell whether or not you keeping your branches straight if you don't report them ;-)
  62. # [01:13] <SamB> +'re
  63. # [01:13] * gsnedders only very briefly had anything to do with any browser impl
  64. # [01:13] <gsnedders> very very briefly
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  66. # [01:32] <SimonSapin> SamB: I’m not very familiar with the HTML parser, but I believe it’s similar to URL: the spec defines what implementations should do in all cases. Additionally, in some cases, it says "this is a parse error". Which in itself does not affect the implementation (except if it chooses to log such errors), it only expresses author requirements
  67. # [01:32] <SimonSapin> a validator would check author requirements
  68. # [01:32] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: browsers log parse errors when the console is open
  69. # [01:32] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: or at least WebKit, Blink, and Presto do. I think Trident too.
  70. # [01:32] <gsnedders> I'm pretty sure Gecko logs them, um, somewhere.
  71. # [01:33] <SamB> SimonSapin: yes, well, I assume it's a lot easier to verify that the parser logic has been accurately translated into code if you can see those parse errors ;-)
  72. # [01:33] <SamB> or at least to sanity-check it
  73. # [01:35] <SimonSapin> hum, I wouldn’t say "a lot easier"
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  96. # [03:34] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: as far as In other words, it should be possible to catch this case just using a conforming tokenizer, without needing a parser.
  97. # [03:34] <MikeSmith> oops
  98. # [03:34] <MikeSmith> copy pasta
  99. # [03:35] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: meant to say, as far as "User agents are encouraged to expose parse errors somehow.", Firefox's View Source also uses that
  100. # [03:35] <SimonSapin> MikeSmith: for URL parse errors?
  101. # [03:35] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: no, in the case of the similar parse-error stuff in the HTML parsing algorithm
  102. # [03:36] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: for URL parse errors, galimatias (a general-purpose URL parsing library) at least does expose the parse errors
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  104. # [03:38] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: there might be non-browser cases other than validators where people would like to have access parse errors, but I don't know of specific ones
  105. # [03:42] <SimonSapin> ok, apparently you can give galimatias a custom error handler that will receive errors and can do whatever
  106. # [03:42] <SimonSapin> a closure (callback) should do
  107. # [03:43] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: what you need this for?
  108. # [03:43] <SimonSapin> MikeSmith: I’m implementing http://url.spec.whatwg.org/ in Rust
  109. # [03:43] <SimonSapin> trying to figure out what to do with non-fatal parse errors
  110. # [03:46] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: ah ok
  111. # [03:47] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: well at the very least having an error-reporting URL parser in Rust would mean somebody could eventually use that parser as part of a validator written in Rust, which is worth something
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  214. # [12:37] <zcorpan_> mathiasbynens: is http://dev.opera.com/articles/showmodaldialog/ still up to date? was the removal delayed another version maybe? (also the demo's popup says 404)
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  231. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: I see you heard back from the W3C systeam by now but yeah there was scheduled network outage at MIT that made IRC and everything else inaccessible for a while
  232. # [14:56] <Ms2ger> Yep, thanks :)
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The end :)