/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-09-01 / end

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  130. # [04:34] <jxs> hey there folks, is there any info on why there are html5 specs on whatwg and 5.1 on w3c and the relation between them?
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  132. # [04:53] <zewt_> w3c wants their specs to look newer, so they use a bigger number
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  139. # [05:25] <tripu> jxs: here is some information about that: http://www.w3.org/html/landscape/
  140. # [05:29] <jxs> thanks :)
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  166. # [07:07] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I think the HTML spec should explicitly disallow comments in the media attribute
  167. # [07:08] <MikeSmith> If you want, I can file a bug for it
  168. # [07:08] <MikeSmith> or come to think of it maybe I already did (at least I know I did for sizes)
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  170. # [07:12] <MikeSmith> Hixie: and to be clear I mean the document-conformance criteria
  171. # [07:14] <MikeSmith> there's no good reason for Web developers to put CSS comments into attribute values
  172. # [07:14] <MikeSmith> but if/when some developers find out they're allowed, they'll start putting some in just because they can
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  200. # [08:55] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26195
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  213. # [09:47] <hsivonen> annevk: various github.io things get CSS blocked as mixed content for me
  214. # [09:47] <hsivonen> annevk: not exactly a run-of-the-mill FOUC
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  217. # [10:00] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: annevk the http://sideshowbarker.github.io/console-spec/ FOUC is just due to respec I think
  218. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: ah ok thanks (/me is not caught up on e-mail)
  219. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> I guess my answer to the question "what's the value of disallowing them?" is "what's the value in allowing them?"
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  221. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> an HTML attribute value is not a CSS stylesheet
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  223. # [10:06] <hsivonen> MikeSmith, annevk: Maybe https everywhere rewrites github.io to https for me
  224. # [10:06] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: and yes, it seems more plausible that the non-http FOUC would be respec than Gecko
  225. # [10:07] <annevk> hsivonen: oh yeah, it's definitely respec; I just meant to point out it still exists
  226. # [10:07] <annevk> hsivonen: seems that HTTPS Everywhere is doing that for you
  227. # [10:08] <hsivonen> does html5lib have tests for https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17924 yet?
  228. # [10:08] <hsivonen> annevk: that sort of existence is quite a bit different than the sort of existence I meant
  229. # [10:09] * heycam|away is now known as heycam|away|away
  230. # [10:13] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-tests/blob/master/tree-construction/tests9.dat#L34 maybe?
  231. # [10:13] <MikeSmith> <!DOCTYPE html><math><annotation-xml><svg><u>
  232. # [10:16] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: that's a full doc
  233. # [10:16] * MikeSmith wonders if gsnedders and jgraham__ think that the html5lib test files having names like tests9.dat is any better than bad 001.html naming convention
  234. # [10:16] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: looking for fragment parsing tests
  235. # [10:16] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: ah yeah
  236. # [10:18] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: grepping through the tests localy I find probably there are none
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  247. # [10:45] <zcorpan> hsivonen: wanna drop <isindex> parsing in gecko?
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  253. # [11:00] <foolip_> zcorpan: great success: http://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/426
  254. # [11:00] * foolip_ is now known as foolip
  255. # [11:00] <foolip> your move
  256. # [11:01] <zcorpan> foolip: thanks!
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  258. # [11:01] <zcorpan> foolip: it's data from stable i assume?
  259. # [11:01] <foolip> zcorpan: yes, it was in M37
  260. # [11:01] <foolip> it would have moved by now if it was going to
  261. # [11:01] <foolip> but it may just rise to something like 0.0001% in the coming week
  262. # [11:01] <foolip> in any event, ~0
  263. # [11:02] <foolip> this is what another M36 counter looks like: http://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/427
  264. # [11:03] <zcorpan> foolip: what does the @charset counter look for again?
  265. # [11:05] <foolip> zcorpan: CSSCharsetRuleEncoding counts any read or write to CSSCharsetRule.encoding
  266. # [11:06] <foolip> it doesn't directly prove that removing the entire CSSCharsetRule is safe, but makes it seem plausible
  267. # [11:09] <zcorpan> the problematic bit is likely sites doing indexed access to other rules
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  269. # [11:11] <zcorpan> i can look into the spec side of this next week
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  271. # [11:16] <foolip> zcorpan: yep, that's the risky bit, and with no good way of measuring AFAICT
  272. # [11:18] <zcorpan> yeah
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  287. # [11:58] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, r? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/2485
  288. # [11:59] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: done
  289. # [12:00] <Ms2ger> Ta
  290. # [12:01] <annevk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Sep/0002.html lol
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  292. # [12:02] <Ms2ger> TL;DR sounds like "I didn't read the email I replied to"
  293. # [12:05] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, if you have better names for tests#.dat... ;)
  294. # [12:06] <MikeSmith> math-svg.dat
  295. # [12:07] <Ms2ger> Well, sure
  296. # [12:07] <Ms2ger> But they're not all that clear-cut
  297. # [12:07] <MikeSmith> sure
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  299. # [12:12] * jgraham__ is now known as jgraham
  300. # [12:14] <jgraham> Yeah, the tests-*.dat aren't grouped in any particular way so in general it's hard to name them. I think the first is the real problem
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  305. # [12:24] <zcorpan> your license doesn't say i can't put dogshit on your doormat
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  312. # [12:37] <jgraham> Yeah, I wonder if people are guenuinely unable to understand the difference between the spirit and the letter of a license or if they're just being disingenuous
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  318. # [13:07] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I think neither. I think they've rationalized it because they don't want to think of themselves as people who do hostile, hypocritical things. Therefore because they're good people, what they're doing can't actually be bad.
  319. # [13:08] <MikeSmith> there must be some clinical term for that kind of thinking
  320. # [13:09] <MikeSmith> in other news, "Nicholas Cage is no replacement for kittens"
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  326. # [13:43] <hsivonen> should I be reading public-w3process?
  327. # [13:44] <hsivonen> gmail decided to land that thread (that annevk linked to above) in my inbox despite my filters saying it belongs under W3C
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  338. # [14:21] <hsivonen> I'm so behind the times that my html5lib checkout has a .hg directory :-(
  339. # [14:23] <hsivonen> zcorpan: I don't see dropping <isindex> as a particular win at this time
  340. # [14:24] <hsivonen> though it's kinda sad that it's one more thing the Tor Browser Bundle folks need to worry about
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  342. # [14:25] <zcorpan> hsivonen: ok. yeah i don't disagree
  343. # [14:26] <hsivonen> I don't dare to just review that SVG innerHTML stuff by reading the patch
  344. # [14:26] <hsivonen> time to write some tests
  345. # [14:27] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: well the html5lib tests don't have any meaningful division, so while the tests could do with being rearranged it's not really high priority
  346. # [14:27] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: and it means files can't just be renamed
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  349. # [14:27] <Ms2ger> hsivonen, sounds like a good outcome :)
  350. # [14:29] <hsivonen> looks like Blink doesn't actually have code for http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7917&to=7918
  351. # [14:29] <hsivonen> at least I'm not the only one failing to track the spec
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  353. # [14:30] <Ms2ger> :/
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  355. # [14:31] <Ms2ger> I've thought about having a bot just file a "write a test for this" for every changeset
  356. # [14:31] <gsnedders> Somewhere a long way down on my to-do list is writing test cases for all changes to the parser
  357. # [14:33] <hsivonen> where does blink deal with putting the innerHTML of SVG elements into the SVG namespace?
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  361. # [14:43] <hsivonen> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/blink/+/a8a0a83498e1d5f7014c79cffa7e45fda6a8b08a%5E!/#F18
  362. # [14:45] <hsivonen> I'm unamused by http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7767&to=7768 . Clearly, I've had the parser swapped out for too long.
  363. # [14:50] <hsivonen> I was about to complain that the Blink developer didn't add html5lib tests for that changeset and then I realized the html5lib test format's existing harnesses probably don't support non-HTML context elements
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  366. # [14:55] <gsnedders> hsivonen: we should probably just support the svg:foo syntax there, I guess
  367. # [14:55] <gsnedders> hsivonen: there's also a lot of blink html5lib tests that need upstreamed, but it's a bit ambiguous as to license in the Blink (and WebKit) repo so I don't want to just grab them myself
  368. # [14:57] <zcorpan> context element is the #document-fragment in https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-tests/blob/master/tree-construction/tests_innerHTML_1.dat ?
  369. # [14:57] <gsnedders> yeah
  370. # [14:59] <zcorpan> gsnedders: isn't it better to use a space like in the expected output?
  371. # [14:59] <gsnedders> zcorpan: I was meanaing the same as the expected output, just misremembering what that was :)
  372. # [14:59] <zcorpan> ah
  373. # [15:00] * gsnedders is on pretty poor on-train wifi
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  377. # [15:16] <hsivonen> annevk: fun times in the "[Encoding] false statement" thread
  378. # [15:20] <foolip> hsivonen: link?
  379. # [15:20] <hsivonen> foolip: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2014JulSep/
  380. # [15:21] <foolip> hsivonen: thanks!
  381. # [15:25] <foolip> I don't understand how annevk has the energy for participating in these kinds of discussions
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  385. # [15:32] <annevk> foolip: cute baby helps
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  387. # [15:32] <foolip> :)
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  420. # [16:38] <MikeSmith> annevk: is implementation of the URL spec in blink stalled on something?
  421. # [16:39] <MikeSmith> I see https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=303152 with no updates for more than 2 months
  422. # [16:40] <MikeSmith> and https://codereview.chromium.org/143313002/ waiting on action from sof? or review?
  423. # [16:44] <smaug____> MikeSmith: wouldn't it be better to ask arv?
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  426. # [16:47] <MikeSmith> smaug____: I can't tell from chromium bug tracker and review tool who's the assignee, reviewer
  427. # [16:48] <MikeSmith> the UI of that stuff seems to be some kind of (reverse) intelligence test
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  478. # [18:23] <annevk> MikeSmith: there's many different parts of the URL spec
  479. # [18:24] <annevk> But e.g. new URL("test:test") works in dev
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  510. # [19:56] <smaug____> HTML spec's attribute handling is so hard to follow
  511. # [19:57] <smaug____> "Each input, select, and textarea element has an autofill hint set, an autofill scope, an autofill field name, and an IDL-exposed autofill value." but then..."The subsections that define each type also clearly define in normative "bookkeeping" sections which of these feature apply, and which do not apply, to each type."
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  514. # [19:57] <smaug____> and "autocomplete" doesn't apply to type="hidden"
  515. # [19:58] <smaug____> Hixie: ^
  516. # [19:59] <smaug____> ahaa, "When an attribute doesn't apply to an input element, user agents must ignore the attribute, regardless of the requirements and definitions below."
  517. # [19:59] <Hixie> yes?
  518. # [19:59] <smaug____> almost unreadable spec
  519. # [19:59] <Hixie> file bugs
  520. # [19:59] <smaug____> but nothing new there :)
  521. # [20:01] <Hixie> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25471 may be of relevance for the specific case you are referring to, btw
  522. # [20:01] <Hixie> i'm half-way through the relevant edit
  523. # [20:01] <Hixie> (it's unlikely to make the spec any clearer though)
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  540. # [20:48] <annevk> Hixie: with DreamHost VPS do you still have their control panel or is it very low-level?
  541. # [20:49] <annevk> I'm somewhat curious whether I should get a VPS somewhere so I have more low-level control
  542. # [20:49] <Hixie> yes, it's identical except you get an additional control for how much extra money to give them, essentially
  543. # [20:49] <Hixie> and you get root
  544. # [20:49] <Hixie> (the control is really about how much RAM to reserve)
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  624. # Session Close: Tue Sep 02 00:00:00 2014

The end :)