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- # Session Start: Sun Sep 07 00:00:00 2014
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
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- # [02:04] <JonathanNeal> smaug____: well if they frustrate you, write your own.
- # [02:06] <JonathanNeal> WYSIHTML Spec
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- # [02:29] <chrisdickinson> has the CSS subject selector syntax been dropped? (summarized here, http://css4-selectors.com/selector/css4/subject-of-selector-with-child-combinator/ for lack of a better link)
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- # [14:15] <mathiasbynens> Hixie_: can haz *.html5.org SSL certificate?
- # [14:15] <annevk> mathiasbynens: I have to do that I think
- # [14:15] <mathiasbynens> annevk: oh, okay. are you up for it?
- # [14:16] <annevk> I was planning on looking into StartSSL about now, but got distracted by something
- # [14:16] <mathiasbynens> specifically i have some tests are use the data in http://mathias.html5.org/data/unicode/, and i’d like them to work over HTTPS
- # [14:16] <Ms2ger> Anything there we shouldn't move to whatwg.org?
- # [14:17] <annevk> Ms2ger: there's a whole bunch of personal sites hosted there
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- # [14:18] <annevk> mathiasbynens: makes sense, I'll have a look
- # [14:18] <mathiasbynens> annevk: ta!
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- # [14:24] <Domenic> yay ssl
- # [14:25] <Domenic> chrisdickinson: it's become :has, which is equivalent in capability
- # [14:25] <annevk> Hmm, private key generation doesn't work in e10s
- # [14:25] <Domenic> chrisdickinson: also, last I heard from TabAtkins, it will be implemented in stylesheets, not just in querySelector, yay!
- # [14:26] <mathiasbynens> annevk: yeah there’s a bugzilla ticket for that iirc. opera has a similar issue
- # [14:27] <annevk> I hope they let me try this again in a window without e10s
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- # [14:28] <annevk> looks like it
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- # [14:34] <annevk> okay, so for this to work I have to make email addresses work
- # [14:39] <mathiasbynens> oh, right
- # [14:42] <annevk> mathiasbynens: feel free to keep pinging me about this
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- # [15:01] <annevk> mathiasbynens: I saw you hadn't blogged yet about your TLS transition
- # [15:01] <annevk> mathiasbynens: in the works?
- # [15:02] <mathiasbynens> annevk: didn’t plan to write about it – it was easier than expected
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- # [15:08] <annevk> One thing that's unclear to me is how this works with content. Does DreamHost automatically mirror?
- # [15:08] <annevk> And then it's up to me to add redirects for non-TLS traffic plus HSTS?
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- # [15:09] <mathiasbynens> annevk: you basically tell Apache to listen on port 443 as well, and for each virtualhost (if you have more than one) point it to the cert + private key
- # [15:09] <mathiasbynens> annevk: that last part is super easy
- # [15:09] <mathiasbynens> let me know if i can help with the Apache setup
- # [15:10] <annevk> I don't think I have direct Apache access, but DreamHost provides configuration per wiki.dreamhost.com/Secure_Hosting#Purchasing_a_Signed_SSL_Certificate but does not detail how it affects content
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- # [15:10] <annevk> In any event, I'm still waiting for DNS propagation so email can work...
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- # [15:12] <mathiasbynens> oh, I see
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- # [15:13] <mathiasbynens> well each host can just do something like this in `.htaccess`:
- # [15:13] <annevk> Hmm, e10s address bar copy-and-paste :(
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- # [15:13] <mathiasbynens> Header set Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=13333337; includeSubDomains" env=HTTPS
- # [15:13] <mathiasbynens> RewriteEngine On
- # [15:13] <mathiasbynens> RewriteCond %{HTTPS} off
- # [15:13] <mathiasbynens> RewriteRule ^(.*)$ https://foo.html5.org%{REQUEST_URI} [R=301,L]
- # [15:15] <annevk> Is includeSubDomains needed if there are none?
- # [15:15] <annevk> I guess there's pretty much always www, so yes
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- # [15:16] <annevk> Hmm, if you let DreamHost take care of that www to non-www redirect, they probably won't include that header. So you'd have to do that yourself perhaps...
- # [15:16] <mathiasbynens> `includeSubDomains` should be the default; not cool to have HTTPS only for one subdomain but not the others
- # [15:16] <annevk> Well I have some domains without subdomain.
- # [15:16] <mathiasbynens> annevk: but then still you want them to get HTST
- # [15:17] <mathiasbynens> in case someone accesses foo.domainwithoutsubdomain.com
- # [15:17] <annevk> That would not resolve in DNS
- # [15:18] <mathiasbynens> …but it might in a MitM attack scenario
- # [15:18] <annevk> Good point
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- # [15:18] <mathiasbynens> with HTTPS/HSTS that risk is avoided
- # [15:19] <annevk> They should have made that flag an opt out
- # [15:19] <annevk> Bad protocol design
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- # [15:39] <mathiasbynens> Hixie_: whatwg.org has a valid SSL cert, but most of its pages contain mixed content e.g. https://www.whatwg.org/specs/
- # [15:39] <mathiasbynens> Hixie_: also sub-subdomains present a (different) default-Dreamhost cert that triggers a warning, e.g. https://url.spec.whatwg.org/
- # [15:40] <mathiasbynens> Hixie_: anything we can do to help fix these issues?
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- # [15:59] <annevk> Mike West is also interested in helping out I think
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- # [16:08] <annevk> mathiasbynens: does generating a private key generally take a long time?
- # [16:08] <annevk> mathiasbynens: was picking a 4K key length a mistake?
- # [16:08] <Ms2ger> Yes and no
- # [16:09] <annevk> I've been waiting a couple of minutes on this website now I think, I guess I can just leave it open
- # [16:09] <mathiasbynens> annevk: just create it yourself
- # [16:09] <mathiasbynens> annevk: `openssl genrsa -aes256 -out private-encrypted.key 2048`
- # [16:10] <mathiasbynens> annevk: https://konklone.com/post/switch-to-https-now-for-free#generating-the-certificate is more or less how i did it
- # [16:11] <annevk> that goes a lot quicker
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- # [16:17] <annevk> however, startssl is still slow
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- # [16:27] <annevk> mathiasbynens: so I hit a problem
- # [16:27] <annevk> mathiasbynens: I can only get this for one subdomain
- # [16:27] <annevk> mathiasbynens: I need to be class2 to make this work for html5.org
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- # [16:31] <annevk> ok, so that's USD 60
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- # [16:33] <mathiasbynens> yep, *.domain.ext certs are not free :(
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- # [16:33] <annevk> i'll start the process for that, why not
- # [16:35] <annevk> "The documents should be of high quality and high resolution, but not exceed 1400 x 1400 pixels and weigh less than 1 MB." geez
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- # [16:38] <mathiasbynens> sorry for putting you through this, annevk :P
- # [16:40] <annevk> this UI is terrible
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- # [16:50] <annevk> I guess I'll wait with anything until they verified me so I only have to do this every two years
- # [16:53] <annevk> Hixie_: I don't know if this is feasible, but perhaps you could switch the whole TLS business for whatwg.org over to me so I can get us new certificates every two years.
- # [16:54] <annevk> Hixie_: that way only one of us has to do this personal verification dance and since I'm already doing it, you don't have to bother. The only problem I see is that you already tied the whatwg.org domain to you. I'm not sure how strong of a tie that is.
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- # [17:18] <annevk> So, passport and identity card or driver license; then either utility bill plus 5-10 days waiting for a letter or phone bill
- # [17:18] <annevk> I'm trying out if my phone contract works since I don't have a bill
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- # [17:38] <annevk> And it didn't, because it lists the number from before they changed it back to my prepaid...
- # [17:40] <annevk> mathiasbynens: this means we have to wait 5-10 business days
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- # [17:51] <Garbee> Does anyone know if a fieldset element is actually supposed to have its name submitted with the form? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#the-fieldset-element
- # [17:52] <Garbee> I am not seeing the behavior in any browser, yet MDN and WPD both state that it should be submitted with the form.
- # [17:52] <annevk> Garbee: I recommend updating MDN
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- # [17:53] <annevk> Garbee: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#category-submit
- # [17:53] <Garbee> ah! Thanks.
- # [17:54] <Garbee> I was looking over another section it looks like. Actually outlining what engines should do on submission.
- # [17:54] <Garbee> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#dom-form-elements
- # [17:54] <annevk> That specifically defines the <form>.elements API
- # [17:55] <Garbee> I'll update WPD then, I don't have a MDN account nor do I care to make one just for one edit.
- # [17:55] <annevk> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#concept-form-submit is the submission algorithm
- # [17:55] <annevk> Which uses the link I gave to determine what elements to construct form data from
- # [17:55] <Garbee> Sweet, thank you for the help!
- # [17:56] <annevk> WPD is still alive?
- # [17:56] * annevk thought people gave up on that
- # [17:58] <Garbee> People just forget about it apparently.
- # [17:58] <Garbee> I talk about in in rooms from time-to-time, and there is always someone who doesn't know what it is. Then you tell them, and they are amazed. Three weeks later, oh they've forgotten again.
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- # [18:02] <annevk> It would be nice if StartSSL just gave me a domain if they already verified an allowed email for the domain
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- # [21:15] <annevk> mathiasbynens: they're sending the letter tomorrow, but no idea whether it needs to come from the US or Isreal or how long that'll take, I guess 5-10 business days...
- # [21:16] <mathiasbynens> annevk: gah
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- # [21:45] <annevk> mathiasbynens: let's blame it on Orange for not giving me a proper contract or not sending me a bill in time
- # [21:45] <annevk> mathiasbynens: damn operators
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- # Session Close: Mon Sep 08 00:00:00 2014
The end :)