/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-09-15 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Sep 15 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@rrcs-208-105-48-82.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  4. # [00:01] * Joins: yoav_ (~yoav@rrcs-208-105-48-82.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  5. # [00:08] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  6. # [00:09] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.182.8.131) (Quit: nn)
  7. # [00:11] * Quits: daleharvey (sid513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmdnmlvtewevgdpk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  8. # [00:12] <mathiasbynens> annevk: yep
  9. # [00:13] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@95-24-191-184.broadband.corbina.ru) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  10. # [00:15] * Joins: daleharvey____ (sid513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zwtrihltapfmvxbr)
  11. # [00:17] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  12. # [00:20] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  13. # [00:22] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@199.223.125.168)
  14. # [00:29] * Quits: polarbearBalls (~encryptd_@71-90-29-214.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  15. # [00:32] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  16. # [00:37] * Quits: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159) (Remote host closed the connection)
  17. # [00:38] * Joins: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159)
  18. # [00:40] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host86-186-193-22.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  19. # [00:40] * Quits: Joseph_Silber (~JosephSil@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  20. # [00:42] * Joins: JosephSilber (~JosephSil@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net)
  21. # [00:42] * Quits: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  22. # [00:57] * Joins: polarbearBalls (~encryptd_@71-90-29-214.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com)
  23. # [01:02] * Joins: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  24. # [01:08] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@199.223.125.168) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  25. # [01:12] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@67.139.65.163)
  26. # [01:13] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@67.139.65.163) (Client Quit)
  27. # [01:13] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-73-189-66-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  28. # [01:14] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  29. # [01:14] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@c-98-210-159-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  30. # [01:17] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  31. # [01:18] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Client Quit)
  32. # [01:19] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  33. # [01:19] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  34. # [01:19] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  35. # [01:22] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  36. # [01:24] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@199.223.125.168)
  37. # [01:29] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  38. # [01:31] * Quits: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  39. # [01:31] * Joins: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  40. # [01:33] * Quits: yoav_ (~yoav@rrcs-208-105-48-82.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  41. # [01:33] * Joins: markkes2 (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  42. # [01:34] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@67.139.65.163)
  43. # [01:36] * Quits: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  44. # [01:37] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  45. # [01:38] * Joins: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
  46. # [01:38] * Quits: markkes2 (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  47. # [01:38] * Joins: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  48. # [01:40] <Hixie> ok, ssl certs are set up for *.whatwg.org and *.spec.whatwg.org
  49. # [01:49] * Joins: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@c-73-189-66-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  50. # [01:51] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-73-189-66-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  51. # [01:53] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@67.139.65.163) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  52. # [02:03] * Joins: ato_ (sid16069@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  53. # [02:04] * Joins: mattur__ (sid16049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  54. # [02:04] * Joins: dfreedm_ (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  55. # [02:05] * Joins: astearns_ (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  56. # [02:05] * Joins: wakaba_ (~wakaba@176.184.128.101.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  57. # [02:06] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@46-127-136-57.dynamic.hispeed.ch) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  58. # [02:06] * Joins: Domenic_ (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  59. # [02:06] * Joins: sspi______ (sid34681@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  60. # [02:07] * Joins: jxs_ (~joaoxsoul@media.fcsh.unl.pt)
  61. # [02:07] * Joins: karlcow_ (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  62. # [02:07] * Joins: JakeA_ (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  63. # [02:07] * Joins: JonathanNeal_ (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  64. # [02:08] * Joins: nephyrin` (~neph@2620:101:80fc:224:7a2b:cbff:fe9e:2e67)
  65. # [02:08] * Joins: jevs__ (sid23814@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  66. # [02:08] * Joins: phuu__ (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  67. # [02:08] * Joins: zama (zama@2604:180::502b:135a)
  68. # [02:08] * Joins: Amaan_ (uid4967@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  69. # [02:08] * Quits: jxs (~joaoxsoul@media.fcsh.unl.pt) (Disconnected by services)
  70. # [02:08] * jxs_ is now known as jxs
  71. # [02:09] * Joins: hayato_ (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  72. # [02:09] * Joins: slightlyoff_ (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  73. # [02:09] * Joins: gnarf_ (gnarf@unaffiliated/gnarf)
  74. # [02:10] * Joins: tripu- (~tripu@saborbia.com)
  75. # [02:10] * Joins: wanderview_ (sid22777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  76. # [02:10] * Joins: Garbee_ (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  77. # [02:11] * Joins: parshap__ (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  78. # [02:12] * Joins: dmurph_ (sid42525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  79. # [02:14] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121-99-141-164.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  80. # [02:15] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@g226041003.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblowerplattform Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
  81. # [02:16] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@199.223.125.168) (*.net *.split)
  82. # [02:16] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (*.net *.split)
  83. # [02:16] * Quits: wakaba (~wakaba@176.184.128.101.dy.bbexcite.jp) (*.net *.split)
  84. # [02:16] * Quits: Amaan (uid4967@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yiftfatqhukckczh) (*.net *.split)
  85. # [02:16] * Quits: hayato (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dytncvimmqisaaio) (*.net *.split)
  86. # [02:16] * Quits: miketaylr_ (~miketaylr@192.241.222.35) (*.net *.split)
  87. # [02:16] * Quits: mattur_ (sid16049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lcgikjnzewhigbnf) (*.net *.split)
  88. # [02:16] * Quits: wanderview (sid22777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-atntnnomcqnstfqp) (*.net *.split)
  89. # [02:16] * Quits: dmurph (sid42525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpsyjorlvmchpxme) (*.net *.split)
  90. # [02:16] * Quits: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rkmqahtedwczdexl) (*.net *.split)
  91. # [02:16] * Quits: parshap_ (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-turdjmryqjxkpwou) (*.net *.split)
  92. # [02:16] * Quits: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-klxwmmbiskrwxtzq) (*.net *.split)
  93. # [02:16] * Quits: Garbee (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rdtaqsilifthbrgg) (*.net *.split)
  94. # [02:16] * Quits: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-scidkqjqvfwhqrri) (*.net *.split)
  95. # [02:16] * Quits: phuu_ (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lrzovfzgldqwgbzd) (*.net *.split)
  96. # [02:16] * Quits: sspi_____ (uid34681@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jeltouqozabpiado) (*.net *.split)
  97. # [02:16] * Quits: JakeA (sid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwcxdkqqovcxuqlu) (*.net *.split)
  98. # [02:16] * Quits: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnskqqikkftofeoq) (*.net *.split)
  99. # [02:16] * Quits: jevs_ (sid23814@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-saihxieuymyvstpc) (*.net *.split)
  100. # [02:16] * Quits: ato (sid16069@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztjpblwcqwjymzup) (*.net *.split)
  101. # [02:16] * Quits: astearns (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wsweqdulifomftez) (*.net *.split)
  102. # [02:16] * Quits: kirjs_____ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lteipoflrkkzvroo) (*.net *.split)
  103. # [02:16] * Quits: moo-_- (miohtama@lakka.kapsi.fi) (*.net *.split)
  104. # [02:16] * Quits: gnarf (gnarf@unaffiliated/gnarf) (*.net *.split)
  105. # [02:16] * Quits: tripu (~tripu@saborbia.com) (*.net *.split)
  106. # [02:16] * Quits: zama_ (zama@unaffiliated/stryx/x-3871776) (*.net *.split)
  107. # [02:16] * Quits: nephyrin (~neph@2620:101:80fc:224:7a2b:cbff:fe9e:2e67) (*.net *.split)
  108. # [02:16] * hayato_ is now known as hayato
  109. # [02:16] * wanderview_ is now known as wanderview
  110. # [02:16] * mattur__ is now known as mattur_
  111. # [02:16] * ato_ is now known as ato
  112. # [02:16] * dmurph_ is now known as dmurph
  113. # [02:16] * dfreedm_ is now known as dfreedm
  114. # [02:17] * jevs__ is now known as jevs_
  115. # [02:17] * astearns_ is now known as astearns
  116. # [02:17] * phuu__ is now known as phuu_
  117. # [02:17] * slightlyoff_ is now known as slightlyoff
  118. # [02:17] * Garbee_ is now known as Garbee
  119. # [02:17] * JakeA_ is now known as JakeA
  120. # [02:18] * JonathanNeal_ is now known as JonathanNeal
  121. # [02:18] * Amaan_ is now known as Amaan
  122. # [02:18] * Quits: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  123. # [02:18] * Garbee is now known as Guest32898
  124. # [02:18] * Domenic_ is now known as Domenic
  125. # [02:19] * Joins: kirjs_____ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  126. # [02:20] * gsnedder1 is now known as gsnedders
  127. # [02:22] * Joins: moo-_- (miohtama@lakka.kapsi.fi)
  128. # [02:22] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@199.223.125.168)
  129. # [02:28] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@199.223.125.168) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  130. # [02:32] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@172.56.33.216)
  131. # [02:34] * Joins: yoav_ (~yoav@rrcs-208-105-48-82.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  132. # [02:35] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@172.56.33.216) (Client Quit)
  133. # [02:36] * Joins: wakaba (~wakaba@176.184.128.101.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  134. # [02:38] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba@176.184.128.101.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  135. # [02:39] * Quits: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@c-73-189-66-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  136. # [03:00] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  137. # [03:00] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  138. # [03:03] * Quits: wakaba (~wakaba@176.184.128.101.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  139. # [03:08] * Joins: wakaba (~wakaba@176.184.128.101.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  140. # [03:26] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64)
  141. # [03:27] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446])
  142. # [03:31] * Quits: karlcow_ (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  143. # [03:46] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  144. # [03:46] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
  145. # [03:49] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  146. # [03:50] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64)
  147. # [03:51] * Quits: ericandrewlewis (~Adium@ool-ad03aea4.dyn.optonline.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  148. # [03:59] * Quits: wakaba (~wakaba@176.184.128.101.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  149. # [04:01] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  150. # [04:04] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  151. # [04:07] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64)
  152. # [04:16] * Joins: dbaron__ (~dbaron@50.0.192.112)
  153. # [04:24] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64) (Remote host closed the connection)
  154. # [04:30] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
  155. # [04:32] * Quits: yoav_ (~yoav@rrcs-208-105-48-82.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  156. # [04:37] * Quits: seventh (seventh@192.64.6.15) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  157. # [04:41] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64)
  158. # [04:45] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@50.167.218.18)
  159. # [04:45] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@50.167.218.18) (Changing host)
  160. # [04:45] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  161. # [04:48] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-98-210-159-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
  162. # [04:50] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Remote host closed the connection)
  163. # [04:50] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  164. # [04:55] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  165. # [04:57] * Joins: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net)
  166. # [05:07] <Domenic> https://www.whatwg.org/ has mixed content
  167. # [05:08] <Domenic> and all the links go to http://
  168. # [05:08] <Domenic> I guess the //-ification of the homepage hasn't happened yet
  169. # [05:11] * Guest83437 is now known as jamesr
  170. # [05:11] * jamesr is now known as jamesr_
  171. # [05:17] * Quits: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  172. # [05:33] * Quits: polarbearBalls (~encryptd_@71-90-29-214.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  173. # [05:48] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@dsl-173-206-232-186.tor.primus.ca)
  174. # [05:49] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  175. # [06:21] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  176. # [06:21] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  177. # [06:24] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  178. # [06:37] * Quits: dbaron__ (~dbaron@50.0.192.112) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  179. # [06:42] * Guest42099_ is now known as Ziggy
  180. # [06:42] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@dsl-173-206-232-186.tor.primus.ca) (Quit: arunranga)
  181. # [06:54] * Quits: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  182. # [06:56] * Joins: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net)
  183. # [06:56] * Quits: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  184. # [06:57] * Joins: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net)
  185. # [06:57] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@dsl-173-206-232-186.tor.primus.ca)
  186. # [06:58] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@dsl-173-206-232-186.tor.primus.ca) (Client Quit)
  187. # [07:09] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64) (Remote host closed the connection)
  188. # [07:18] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  189. # [07:23] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  190. # [07:24] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  191. # [07:29] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@109.201.152.225)
  192. # [07:31] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  193. # [07:31] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  194. # [07:32] * Joins: caitp__ (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  195. # [07:34] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  196. # [07:35] * Quits: caitp__ (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  197. # [07:35] * Joins: wakaba (~wakaba@146.225.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  198. # [07:36] * Joins: caitp__ (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  199. # [07:39] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  200. # [07:41] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  201. # [07:48] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  202. # [07:58] * Quits: caitp__ (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  203. # [08:05] * Joins: arpitab__ (uid10516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  204. # [08:05] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  205. # [08:26] * Quits: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  206. # [08:27] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  207. # [08:28] * Quits: webben_ (~benjamin@hq.benjaminhawkeslewis.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  208. # [08:28] * Joins: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net)
  209. # [08:28] * Joins: webben_ (~benjamin@hq.benjaminhawkeslewis.com)
  210. # [08:28] * Quits: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  211. # [08:29] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  212. # [08:32] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  213. # [08:36] * Joins: davidyezsetz (~davidyezs@mail1.powerflasher.de)
  214. # [08:38] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  215. # [08:38] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  216. # [08:44] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  217. # [08:44] <mathiasbynens> links are not the problem; it’s the embedded resources
  218. # [08:45] <mathiasbynens> <object> <img> etc.
  219. # [08:46] <Domenic> the links are problematic if we want to encourage SSL usage
  220. # [08:46] <mathiasbynens> ofc
  221. # [08:47] <mathiasbynens> ah, i’d missed the “and” in your message
  222. # [08:48] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
  223. # [08:50] <mathiasbynens> also the redirects in `.htaccess` (e.g. `/C`) are still hardcoded to `http://`
  224. # [08:52] <mathiasbynens> a server-wide search/replace for http://*.whatwg.org/ → https://\1.whatwg.org/ would be nice
  225. # [08:59] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  226. # [09:01] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  227. # [09:02] * Joins: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch)
  228. # [09:04] * Joins: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  229. # [09:08] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  230. # [09:20] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.187)
  231. # [09:21] * Joins: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.238.88)
  232. # [09:29] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.187) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  233. # [09:35] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.173)
  234. # [09:47] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  235. # [09:48] * Quits: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch) (Quit: cbr_)
  236. # [09:49] * Joins: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch)
  237. # [09:55] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.173) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  238. # [10:02] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  239. # [10:02] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@46-127-136-57.dynamic.hispeed.ch)
  240. # [10:02] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@192.241.222.35)
  241. # [10:02] * Quits: diffalot (~diffalot@c-75-66-188-195.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  242. # [10:06] * Quits: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  243. # [10:06] * Quits: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  244. # [10:06] * Quits: cfq___ (sid18398@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fytwkswypqlzmqji) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  245. # [10:06] * Quits: th2389____ (uid27360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xoipjtyyabgyhegl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  246. # [10:07] * Joins: diffalot (~diffalot@c-75-66-188-195.hsd1.ms.comcast.net)
  247. # [10:07] * Quits: ato (sid16069@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  248. # [10:07] * Joins: ato (sid16069@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vvtnagbavwyhlvlq)
  249. # [10:07] * Quits: mattur_ (sid16049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  250. # [10:07] * Joins: mattur_ (sid16049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrzbhxthiijoqxzb)
  251. # [10:07] * Quits: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  252. # [10:07] * Joins: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jboelplgyvxjystm)
  253. # [10:07] * Quits: astearns (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  254. # [10:07] * Joins: astearns (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thrvtlgghseugljq)
  255. # [10:07] * Quits: sspi______ (sid34681@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  256. # [10:07] * Joins: sspi______ (sid34681@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-umgaqnqerohnksvm)
  257. # [10:07] * Quits: JakeA (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  258. # [10:07] * Joins: JakeA (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qzocolxgvysihkxe)
  259. # [10:07] * Quits: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  260. # [10:07] * Joins: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-woxrpewshjebpgba)
  261. # [10:07] * Quits: jevs_ (sid23814@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  262. # [10:07] * Joins: jevs_ (sid23814@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmhjzgwtqxtmnyyi)
  263. # [10:07] * Quits: phuu_ (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  264. # [10:07] * Joins: phuu_ (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxkhevfqtplreuhc)
  265. # [10:07] * Quits: Amaan (uid4967@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  266. # [10:07] * Joins: Amaan (uid4967@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztpckpqvwxissxlv)
  267. # [10:07] * Quits: hayato (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  268. # [10:07] * Joins: hayato (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwajeieawzxfaroq)
  269. # [10:07] * Quits: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  270. # [10:07] * Joins: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxgwfhnitudgkmmb)
  271. # [10:07] * Quits: wanderview (sid22777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  272. # [10:07] * Joins: wanderview (sid22777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwzuubgspkqpjbmb)
  273. # [10:07] * Quits: Guest32898 (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  274. # [10:07] * Joins: Guest32898 (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dmixzmctcddwmebo)
  275. # [10:07] * Quits: parshap__ (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  276. # [10:07] * Joins: parshap__ (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owyrubzrvesreqxe)
  277. # [10:07] * Quits: dmurph (sid42525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  278. # [10:07] * Joins: dmurph (sid42525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qxtzlthupfpqsxvq)
  279. # [10:07] * Quits: kirjs_____ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  280. # [10:07] * Joins: kirjs_____ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-myzblnrejvefdxiz)
  281. # [10:08] * Joins: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  282. # [10:08] * Joins: Domenic_ (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  283. # [10:08] * Joins: cfq___ (sid18398@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  284. # [10:08] * Quits: arpitab__ (uid10516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  285. # [10:08] * Joins: arpitab__ (uid10516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jeinghbnrvzeqsdo)
  286. # [10:08] * Quits: r4vi (~r4vi@184.106.109.213) (Excess Flood)
  287. # [10:09] * Joins: th2389____ (uid27360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  288. # [10:10] * Quits: Domenic_ (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  289. # [10:10] * Joins: Domenic_ (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gsigyxpmpwqdaxtk)
  290. # [10:10] * Quits: cfq___ (sid18398@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  291. # [10:10] * Joins: cfq___ (sid18398@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shxltsecukfebtqs)
  292. # [10:10] * Quits: th2389____ (uid27360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  293. # [10:10] * Joins: th2389____ (uid27360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owjqpajkphdktmkg)
  294. # [10:10] * Joins: r4vi (~r4vi@184.106.109.213)
  295. # [10:11] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  296. # [10:11] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  297. # [10:12] * Quits: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch) (Quit: cbr_)
  298. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> annevk: will fix the platform.html5.org image thing later today. (last day of vacation here in Berlin with Nao and the weather's beautiful so we're headed off to ride some bikes around a lake9
  299. # [10:13] * Joins: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch)
  300. # [10:16] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  301. # [10:18] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaad-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  302. # [10:18] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@g226041003.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  303. # [10:20] <annevk> MikeSmith: I just fixed it for you
  304. # [10:21] <annevk> I also updated all commit hooks on GitHub for my WHATWG domains to https:// and enabled HSTS
  305. # [10:22] * Quits: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  306. # [10:24] * Joins: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  307. # [10:24] <annevk> http://xkcd.com/1421/ :-)
  308. # [10:27] <zcorpan> is IndexSizeError in http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/geometry/#DOMMatrix et al right or wrong?
  309. # [10:30] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  310. # [10:31] * Guest32898 is now known as Garbee
  311. # [10:32] <annevk> The reference it uses for it is almost certainly wrong
  312. # [10:33] <annevk> But yeah https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#indexsizeerror not sure
  313. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> annevk: ah ok -- thanks
  314. # [10:47] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  315. # [10:56] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@191.233.66.1)
  316. # [10:57] <annevk> https://blog.whatwg.org/rolling-out-tls-and-hsts
  317. # [10:59] <mathiasbynens> \o/
  318. # [11:04] * Quits: r4vi (~r4vi@184.106.109.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
  319. # [11:06] * Quits: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.238.88) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  320. # [11:07] * Joins: r4vi (~r4vi@184.106.109.213)
  321. # [11:09] <annevk> Guess I need to update my email signature
  322. # [11:18] * Joins: Lachy_ (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  323. # [11:22] * Quits: davidyezsetz (~davidyezs@mail1.powerflasher.de) (Quit: davidyezsetz)
  324. # [11:23] * Joins: davidyezsetz (~davidyezs@mail1.powerflasher.de)
  325. # [11:26] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaad-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  326. # [11:36] <annevk> Security incentives are all wrong. Why is https a character longer?
  327. # [11:38] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121-99-141-164.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz)
  328. # [11:40] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  329. # [11:40] <annevk> hsivonen: the Mozilla IETF crowd is scary. Cameras without TLS? How can that be something we aim for?
  330. # [11:41] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.208)
  331. # [11:42] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  332. # [11:42] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  333. # [11:44] <annevk> http://www.android.com/one/ "Always the latest software" such an odd marketing message coming from Google
  334. # [11:45] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.208) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  335. # [11:49] <annevk> By the way, if anyone in this channel wants to setup TLS, I'm willing to help out
  336. # [11:53] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaad0-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  337. # [11:55] * Quits: sarri (~sari@p50995cae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  338. # [11:57] * Joins: sarri (~sari@p50995cae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  339. # [11:59] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  340. # [12:06] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi)
  341. # [12:08] <hsivonen> annevk: is it expected that webm.html5.org has changed its ssh host key in the last year or so?
  342. # [12:08] <hsivonen> annevk: it says the current fingerprint is 68:36:d3:fa:a4:40:ae:1a:ae:38:b7:3a:83:34:8f:74
  343. # [12:11] <hsivonen> annevk: you need to ask Ivan Ristić why ssllabs doesn't make more noise about RC4
  344. # [12:11] <hsivonen> annevk: it does show IE11 on Windows 8.1 as failing to connect, though, if a site is RC4-only
  345. # [12:12] <hsivonen> annevk: which should look pretty bad
  346. # [12:12] <hsivonen> (though it only simulates IE's first handshake attempt, so after downgrading, IE connects)
  347. # [12:13] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaad0-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  348. # [12:15] <hsivonen> Hixie: OK. I'll file a bug about the fragment parsing algorithm and non-HTML/SVG/MathML context
  349. # [12:20] * Joins: Lachy_ (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  350. # [12:22] * Joins: markkes2 (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  351. # [12:23] * Quits: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  352. # [12:25] * Quits: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch) (Quit: cbr_)
  353. # [12:25] * Joins: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch)
  354. # [12:27] <annevk> hsivonen: http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Security_Maintenance_%28SSH_Key_Change_and_Fixes%29
  355. # [12:29] <annevk> I just had a thought. What if the better your TLS story was, the less UI clutter a browser would show. And the worse it was, the more it would look like something is wrong.
  356. # [12:29] <annevk> Compare the address bar UI for https://www.dreamhost.com/ with http://www.dreamhost.com/
  357. # [12:30] <annevk> The TLS UI seems more cluttered for the user while it should be more obvious
  358. # [12:33] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@LMontsouris-656-01-02-84.w80-12.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  359. # [12:34] <roc> I just though "what if, the better your TLS story was, the less ads the browser would show"
  360. # [12:34] <roc> and then I realized Comcast is already implementing that.
  361. # [12:35] <espadrine> because of injected ads?
  362. # [12:35] <roc> yeah
  363. # [12:35] <jgraham> heh
  364. # [12:35] <annevk> roc: hehe
  365. # [12:35] <jgraham> Given the density of ads on the internet in general I'm not sure it's possible to tell the difference :(
  366. # [12:36] <annevk> But I don't get why we'd show "https://" for TLS. No normal user is going to get that and it actually looks more confusing than the alternative
  367. # [12:36] <annevk> Safari on the iPhone doesn't do it...
  368. # [12:38] <jgraham> At this point it probably isn't viable to make the internet look broken for http
  369. # [12:39] <annevk> We could remove "https://" as a start
  370. # [12:39] <annevk> We could change the globe with an icon that indicates surveillance
  371. # [12:41] <jgraham> "look for https" might be one of the few things that people know
  372. # [12:41] <jgraham> Of course they would probably be confused by https.evilsite.com
  373. # [12:43] <annevk> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1067293
  374. # [12:43] <jgraham> But yeah, I guess "[insecure] site.tld" might work
  375. # [12:46] * Joins: jensnockert_ (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  376. # [12:47] * Joins: xiinotulp (~plutoniix@node-10et.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net)
  377. # [12:49] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  378. # [12:50] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-4fw.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  379. # [12:50] * Joins: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159)
  380. # [12:50] <annevk> hsivonen: it seems Ivan is on Twitter, he just retweeted Mike West who was challenging the W3C to follow the WHATWG in using TLS
  381. # [12:51] <annevk> hsivonen: guess I might ask him about it later and maybe once more complain to DreamHost about RC4 and IE11
  382. # [12:51] * Quits: jensnockert_ (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  383. # [12:52] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  384. # [12:56] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  385. # [13:04] * xiinotulp is now known as plutoniix
  386. # [13:07] * Quits: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch) (Quit: cbr_)
  387. # [13:08] * Joins: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch)
  388. # [13:10] * Quits: cbr_ (~cbr@145.36.150.83.chzhher77.rootnet.ch) (Client Quit)
  389. # [13:18] <jgraham> annevk: So how far are we from having html.spec.whatwg.org work?
  390. # [13:18] <jgraham> By which I mean "not be a redirect"
  391. # [13:18] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-5-229.telstraclear.net)
  392. # [13:18] <annevk> jgraham: I think Hixie would like it to remain a redirect
  393. # [13:19] <annevk> Hixie: are you planning on updating the certificate for www.whatwg.org as well?
  394. # [13:19] <jgraham> I would like to voice my disapproval at this
  395. # [13:19] <annevk> Hixie: also, will you make HSTS work or can you add my public key so I can do it?
  396. # [13:19] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  397. # [13:19] <annevk> jgraham: perhaps file a bug on the spec?
  398. # [13:19] <jgraham> A naming scheme with [spec].whatwg.org I can get behind
  399. # [13:20] <jgraham> Uh
  400. # [13:20] <jgraham> [name].spec.whatwg.org
  401. # [13:20] <jgraham> One that requires me to remember anything else, not so much
  402. # [13:20] <jgraham> (particularly the difference between c and C)
  403. # [13:25] <hsivonen> annevk: hmm. weird. webm.html5.org doesn't seem to know my ssh public key. I'm pretty sure I authorized my RSA key there when I migrated away from DSA.
  404. # [13:26] <annevk> hsivonen: do you want me to generate a fresh password?
  405. # [13:26] <hsivonen> annevk: yes, that would work, too
  406. # [13:26] <annevk> see pm
  407. # [13:28] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-24-2-162-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  408. # [13:28] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-24-2-162-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  409. # [13:28] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  410. # [13:29] <hsivonen> annevk: note that banks, etc., pay premium for UI clutter: EV
  411. # [13:30] <hsivonen> annevk: so giving https sites less UI clutter might not be the winning strategy
  412. # [13:30] <annevk> hsivonen: I was thinking that once it gains acceptance that we don't show the path by default
  413. # [13:30] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  414. # [13:30] <hsivonen> annevk: you may be interested in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=942136
  415. # [13:30] <annevk> hsivonen: EV might not show the domain by default
  416. # [13:31] <hsivonen> annevk: it would be pretty bad. you couldn't tell the difference between bugzilla.mozilla.org and www.mozilla.org then
  417. # [13:31] <annevk> oh ew
  418. # [13:32] <annevk> I'm not even sure why we decided to pay for EV, but yes, overall that would be an issue
  419. # [13:33] <hsivonen> annevk: of the browser vendors, Mozilla made a big deal of pushing EV back when it launched
  420. # [13:34] <annevk> :(
  421. # [13:35] <jgraham> Not showing the path by default is what Opera 12 did. Not sure it worked that wekk
  422. # [13:35] <jgraham> *well
  423. # [13:36] * Quits: davidyezsetz (~davidyezs@mail1.powerflasher.de) (Quit: davidyezsetz)
  424. # [13:38] * Quits: hsivonen (~hsivonen@bugzilla.validator.nu) (Changing host)
  425. # [13:38] * Joins: hsivonen (~hsivonen@fsf/member/hsivonen)
  426. # [13:43] * hsivonen notices that StartSSL has decided to capitalize "Van"
  427. # [13:46] <hsivonen> annevk: HSTS enabled for webm.html5.org
  428. # [13:49] * Joins: Lachy_ (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  429. # [13:57] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  430. # [14:03] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  431. # [14:04] * Joins: Lachy_ (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  432. # [14:05] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  433. # [14:08] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2)
  434. # [14:09] * Joins: davidyezsetz (~davidyezs@mail1.powerflasher.de)
  435. # [14:09] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  436. # [14:11] <hsivonen> jgraham: do I need to take some action on https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/2564 ?
  437. # [14:15] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  438. # [14:16] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  439. # [14:18] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  440. # [14:18] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@2a00:801:e0:30:71ba:6d75:8431:155c)
  441. # [14:21] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-efoiibjmjuudxkub)
  442. # [14:21] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-efoiibjmjuudxkub) (Remote host closed the connection)
  443. # [14:22] * Joins: mpt_ (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  444. # [14:22] * mpt_ is now known as mpt
  445. # [14:22] * Quits: CvP (~CvP@27.147.199.131) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  446. # [14:23] * Joins: CvP (~CvP@27.147.199.131)
  447. # [14:29] * Quits: lerc (~quassel@121-74-5-229.telstraclear.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  448. # [14:29] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@46-239-239-203.tal.is)
  449. # [14:30] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:2ec:209b:d701:1a4a:ae8f)
  450. # [14:34] <jgraham> hsivonen: No, you just need someone to review it. I guess I should be that someone. I'll have a look once I fix up Ms2ger's issues with the testtwf documentation
  451. # [14:35] * Joins: polarbearBalls (~encryptd_@71-90-29-214.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com)
  452. # [14:37] <hsivonen> jgraham: OK. Thanks. I requested your review of the same .dat file over at bugzilla.mozilla.org, too.
  453. # [14:39] * Quits: polarbearBalls (~encryptd_@71-90-29-214.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  454. # [14:46] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231)
  455. # [14:50] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231) (Client Quit)
  456. # [14:53] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  457. # [14:57] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  458. # [14:57] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  459. # [15:08] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3)
  460. # [15:09] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:2ec:209b:d701:1a4a:ae8f) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  461. # [15:09] * Joins: guybedford (~guybedfor@41-133-249-7.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  462. # [15:09] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Quit: BigBangUDR)
  463. # [15:12] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@c-98-250-130-237.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
  464. # [15:13] * Quits: davidyezsetz (~davidyezs@mail1.powerflasher.de) (Quit: davidyezsetz)
  465. # [15:20] * Joins: zenparsing (~zenparsin@97-81-81-172.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com)
  466. # [15:27] * Quits: ndkrempel (ndkrempel@nat/google/x-nccugxynphtedbbe) (Remote host closed the connection)
  467. # [15:29] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi)
  468. # [15:31] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@38.88.11.131)
  469. # [15:31] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@38.88.11.131) (Changing host)
  470. # [15:31] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  471. # [15:31] * Joins: paulohp_ (~paulohp@201.52.249.159)
  472. # [15:32] * Quits: kriskowal (~kriskowal@c-50-161-112-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: kriskowal)
  473. # [15:33] * Quits: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  474. # [15:34] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  475. # [15:35] * Joins: davidyezsetz (~davidyezs@mail1.powerflasher.de)
  476. # [15:41] * Quits: zenparsing (~zenparsin@97-81-81-172.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com)
  477. # [15:42] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@115.247.227.25)
  478. # [15:49] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  479. # [15:50] * Joins: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
  480. # [15:51] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  481. # [15:52] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  482. # [15:52] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  483. # [15:55] <annevk> hsivonen: ta
  484. # [15:59] <annevk> hsivonen: your bug report seems interesting, though I think making TLS UI as attractive as non-TLS should be higher priority
  485. # [16:00] <annevk> hsivonen: also, the amount of issues you mention with EV :-(
  486. # [16:00] <annevk> hsivonen: we should definitely do some kind of cert persistence and perhaps scope cookies / storage etc.
  487. # [16:06] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@71-90-29-214.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com)
  488. # [16:09] * Quits: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  489. # [16:09] * Joins: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
  490. # [16:10] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se)
  491. # [16:13] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-10et.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  492. # [16:13] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3)
  493. # [16:18] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-10et.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net)
  494. # [16:25] * Quits: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73) (Remote host closed the connection)
  495. # [16:28] * Joins: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73)
  496. # [16:30] * Quits: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73) (Remote host closed the connection)
  497. # [16:33] * Quits: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  498. # [16:34] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  499. # [16:34] * Joins: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
  500. # [16:40] * timeless_ is now known as timeless
  501. # [16:41] * Quits: timeless (sid4015@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqbsukecmrcgftgl) (Changing host)
  502. # [16:41] * Joins: timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless)
  503. # [16:47] * Joins: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73)
  504. # [16:55] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@g226041003.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  505. # [16:55] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@g226041003.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  506. # [16:59] <jgraham> hsivonen: Critic review is done
  507. # [16:59] <mathiasbynens> woo, annevk.nl is now on TLS too
  508. # [17:00] <jgraham> One issue that I think you should fix, when that's done push a new commit (just the changes, don't try to squash history or anything) and it will appear on critic and I can review it
  509. # [17:00] <jgraham> Then assuming that's OK I'll merg
  510. # [17:00] <jgraham> e
  511. # [17:00] <annevk> The main problem with annevk.nl is that I've configured it as a redirect. I think I'd actually need to fully host the domain to give it a proper setup. Same for www.annevankesteren.nl which automatically redirects, but does not automatically redirect to TLS version afaict.
  512. # [17:01] <annevk> DreamHost needs HSTS support as an option. That would make all of that work automatically I think.
  513. # [17:01] <annevk> Well, if they implemented it correctly.
  514. # [17:04] * Quits: davidyezsetz (~davidyezs@mail1.powerflasher.de) (Quit: davidyezsetz)
  515. # [17:05] * Joins: dbaron__ (~dbaron@50.0.192.112)
  516. # [17:06] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  517. # [17:08] * Joins: zenparsing (~zenparsin@97-81-81-172.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com)
  518. # [17:10] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  519. # [17:10] * Joins: kriskowal (~kriskowal@8.26.157.224)
  520. # [17:17] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@135-23-143-163.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  521. # [17:17] * Quits: kriskowal (~kriskowal@8.26.157.224) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  522. # [17:17] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-lbhxeyoaoxoznzqf)
  523. # [17:18] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-lbhxeyoaoxoznzqf) (Changing host)
  524. # [17:18] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  525. # [17:23] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.49)
  526. # [17:23] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@115.247.227.25) (Quit: BigBangUDR)
  527. # [17:23] * Quits: halfline (rstrode@nat/redhat/x-fdvlooqdokysbrbo) (Remote host closed the connection)
  528. # [17:27] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.49) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  529. # [17:28] * Joins: halfline (rstrode@nat/redhat/x-kqjbftotvdfmgatv)
  530. # [17:29] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.49)
  531. # [17:36] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  532. # [17:36] * Joins: tantek-ipod (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  533. # [17:38] * Quits: tantek-ipod (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Client Quit)
  534. # [17:39] * Quits: eric_carlson (~eric@17.202.43.125) (Remote host closed the connection)
  535. # [17:42] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@2a00:801:e0:30:71ba:6d75:8431:155c) (Remote host closed the connection)
  536. # [17:42] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  537. # [17:43] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  538. # [17:43] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  539. # [17:45] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@rrcs-76-79-68-2.west.biz.rr.com)
  540. # [17:46] * Joins: eric_carlson (~eric@17.202.43.125)
  541. # [17:48] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  542. # [17:48] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se)
  543. # [17:50] * Quits: zenparsing (~zenparsin@97-81-81-172.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com)
  544. # [17:51] * Joins: zenparsing (~zenparsin@97-81-81-172.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com)
  545. # [17:52] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  546. # [17:58] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@113.104.212.38)
  547. # [17:58] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@113.104.212.38) (Remote host closed the connection)
  548. # [17:58] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@113.104.212.38)
  549. # [18:00] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  550. # [18:00] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  551. # [18:03] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.49) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  552. # [18:03] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@113.104.212.38) (Quit: brb)
  553. # [18:05] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.49)
  554. # [18:06] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  555. # [18:06] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@s83-179-51-171.cust.tele2.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  556. # [18:07] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  557. # [18:09] * whatitdo is now known as howitdo
  558. # [18:15] <annevk> hsivonen: https://twitter.com/ivanristic/status/511545125621993472
  559. # [18:16] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Remote host closed the connection)
  560. # [18:16] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  561. # [18:17] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@unaffiliated/maurice)
  562. # [18:18] * Joins: ap (~ap@17.202.44.214)
  563. # [18:19] * Quits: paulohp_ (~paulohp@201.52.249.159) (Remote host closed the connection)
  564. # [18:19] * Quits: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-198-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  565. # [18:20] * Joins: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159)
  566. # [18:21] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  567. # [18:22] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@46-239-239-203.tal.is) (Quit: barnabywalters)
  568. # [18:23] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  569. # [18:25] * Quits: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  570. # [18:25] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.202.44.214)
  571. # [18:25] <JakeA> annevk: Can we add Reponse as an alias to Response? I always type it wrong
  572. # [18:29] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.49) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  573. # [18:30] * Joins: ap (~ap@17.202.44.214)
  574. # [18:30] <Hixie> jgraham: what would html.spec.whatwg.org host? the multipage spec or the single-page spec? and where would the other go?
  575. # [18:30] * Quits: bnicholson (~bnicholso@24.130.60.241) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  576. # [18:31] <Hixie> jgraham: also, there's a lot of links to the old location
  577. # [18:31] <gsnedders> hsivonen: are you ever actually obliged to revoke a cert? could you just take the attitude that it started out as HTTP so it's no more insecure than how it started out (obviously false sense of security, but…)
  578. # [18:32] * Quits: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  579. # [18:33] <jgraham> Hixie: Single page. Multipage would be under some path or a seperate subdomain. The old location could redirect
  580. # [18:33] * Joins: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-198-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  581. # [18:34] <Hixie> what's the impact of the old location redirecting on things like position in search results?
  582. # [18:34] * Joins: ShaneHudson (~ShaneHuds@host86-149-123-177.range86-149.btcentralplus.com)
  583. # [18:34] <Hixie> i guess the domain name having "html" in it might make it a net positive...
  584. # [18:34] <jgraham> Dunno, ask someone that works for Google
  585. # [18:34] * Quits: Philip` (~philip@compass.zaynar.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  586. # [18:34] <Hixie> well not just in google
  587. # [18:35] <Hixie> i'm pretty sure the impact with google is google shunts the page rank along the redirect
  588. # [18:35] * Joins: Philip` (~philip@compass.zaynar.co.uk)
  589. # [18:36] <jgraham> I think the net win of going form "url no one can remember" to "url anyone can remember" is big enough that I would be prepared to take a temporary hit in search engine ranking
  590. # [18:37] <Hixie> fair enough
  591. # [18:43] <Hixie> what's the magic i need for HSTS again?
  592. # [18:44] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  593. # [18:45] <Hixie> oh you only send it over HTTPS?
  594. # [18:45] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  595. # [18:45] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  596. # [18:45] <Hixie> that makes it easier
  597. # [18:45] * Hixie sticks this in his global htaccess file: Header set Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=31536000" env=HTTPS
  598. # [18:45] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  599. # [18:47] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-jtsphfslazxsvkam)
  600. # [18:47] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  601. # [18:50] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  602. # [18:50] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  603. # [18:50] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  604. # [18:54] * jorendorff__ is now known as jorendorff
  605. # [18:55] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  606. # [18:55] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  607. # [18:57] * Joins: bnicholson (~bnicholso@2620:101:80fc:224:8517:d573:db3b:4a82)
  608. # [19:03] * Joins: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
  609. # [19:04] <annevk> JakeA: haha
  610. # [19:04] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3)
  611. # [19:04] <annevk> Hixie: you also need a redirect from non-TLS
  612. # [19:05] <annevk> Hixie: https://gist.github.com/annevk/3ec0c4cc129059eb567d
  613. # [19:05] <Hixie> the redirects are going in already
  614. # [19:05] <annevk> Hixie: not sure how you can make that work globally
  615. # [19:05] <annevk> okay
  616. # [19:05] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  617. # [19:06] * Quits: zenparsing (~zenparsin@97-81-81-172.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com)
  618. # [19:06] <jsbell> annevk: Any idea if/when FF will implement set/get/getAll/has/delete on FormData?
  619. # [19:07] <annevk> jsbell: I don't, I'm not even aware of a bug
  620. # [19:08] <jsbell> annevk: thx. I couldn't find a moz bug either.
  621. # [19:09] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@LMontsouris-656-01-02-84.w80-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  622. # [19:10] <Hixie> ok the www.whatwg.org home page is no longer mixed content
  623. # [19:10] <Hixie> let me know if there's other affected pages
  624. # [19:10] <annevk> Hixie++
  625. # [19:11] <annevk> Hixie: home page is not yet redirecting to https:// btw
  626. # [19:11] <Hixie> yeah i wanted to fix the mixed content issues first :-)
  627. # [19:11] * Joins: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159)
  628. # [19:11] <Hixie> are the forums ready to redirect? zcorpan is having trouble logging in but we're not ever up at the same time so i haven't been able to help troubleshoot
  629. # [19:11] * Quits: ShaneHudson (~ShaneHuds@host86-149-123-177.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Computer fell asleep.)
  630. # [19:12] <Hixie> anyone seen variable recently? (aka eitana)
  631. # [19:13] <Hixie> looks like he hasn't logged in since 2010
  632. # [19:13] <annevk> I don't know my Forums account anymore
  633. # [19:13] <Hixie> i'm calling that abandoned and deleting history.whatwg.org
  634. # [19:15] <Hixie> what's the story on html-differences.whatwg.org ?
  635. # [19:15] <annevk> maintained by zcorpan
  636. # [19:16] <Hixie> looks like it's having styling issues
  637. # [19:16] <annevk> I can fix the issues I guess
  638. # [19:16] <Hixie> oh it's mixed content issues i guess
  639. # [19:16] <annevk> yes
  640. # [19:16] <Hixie> anyway, i should be keeping this domain then right
  641. # [19:17] <Hixie> btw once i'm done here you should be able to remove your redirect thing
  642. # [19:17] <Hixie> the http sites are just going to not exist any more
  643. # [19:17] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe25:a5a3)
  644. # [19:17] <Hixie> well, they'll exist in that they'll be hardcoded to redirect at the panel level
  645. # [19:17] <Hixie> but your .htaccess files won't be doing anything with them
  646. # [19:17] <Hixie> so they'll just be slowing down the https loads
  647. # [19:18] <Hixie> MikeSmith: what's the story on help.whatwg.org?
  648. # [19:19] * jevs_ is now known as jevs
  649. # [19:20] <Hixie> ooh
  650. # [19:20] <Hixie> http://n.whatwg.org/
  651. # [19:20] <Hixie> i guess i will _not_ in fact support https://n.whatwg.org/
  652. # [19:20] <Hixie> since that would just cause confusions
  653. # [19:21] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  654. # [19:22] * Joins: zenparsing (~zenparsin@97-81-81-172.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com)
  655. # [19:23] <annevk> ooh, you have some kind of super powers even over the domains I host?
  656. # [19:23] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  657. # [19:23] <annevk> that sounds great
  658. # [19:23] <annevk> I guess it doesn't apply to dom.spec.whatwg.org yet, hopefully DreamHost can move that back as I requested
  659. # [19:24] * Quits: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  660. # [19:24] <Hixie> well, i have the power to make you not host them :-)
  661. # [19:24] <boogyman> annevk: the primary owner of the acct has full access to all namespaces
  662. # [19:24] <annevk> boogyman: except for dom.spec.whatwg.org at the moment
  663. # [19:25] <annevk> I think, as that's a really weird hack
  664. # [19:25] <boogyman> whoever owns "whatwg.org" does
  665. # [19:26] <Hixie> boogyman: he means control over how it's hosted at dreamhost
  666. # [19:26] <Hixie> obviously i could move the entire domain elsewhere
  667. # [19:26] <Hixie> that would be a hell of a mess
  668. # [19:26] <Hixie> :-)
  669. # [19:27] <boogyman> Unless this is something new in their system, I am pretty sure you can change the location of the host between their hosted solutions.
  670. # [19:29] <annevk> I fixed html-differences
  671. # [19:29] <annevk> I guess I'll remove the HSTS stuff I did
  672. # [19:30] <Hixie> leave the header
  673. # [19:30] <Hixie> i can't affect your domains' headers with my .htaccess files
  674. # [19:32] <annevk> okay
  675. # [19:32] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  676. # [19:33] <Hixie> in setting up these redirects i'm sure i'm gonna get one wrong
  677. # [19:33] <Hixie> and we'll have http://figures.spec.whatwg.org redirect to https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org or some nonsense
  678. # [19:33] <annevk> are they all in one file?
  679. # [19:34] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  680. # [19:34] <Hixie> it's the web panel interface
  681. # [19:34] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3)
  682. # [19:34] <annevk> your panel has separate controls for :80 and :443?
  683. # [19:34] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  684. # [19:34] <Hixie> yeah
  685. # [19:35] <annevk> neat
  686. # [19:35] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  687. # [19:35] <annevk> ooh I see, I do too
  688. # [19:35] <annevk> I did not realize that when you add secure hosting, it's basically the same thing as web hosting
  689. # [19:36] <annevk> I thought it was just a way to add certificates
  690. # [19:37] <Hixie> something wacky is going on with my html.spec.whatwg.org setup
  691. # [19:38] <Hixie> oh, local caching problem
  692. # [19:38] <Hixie> ok
  693. # [19:38] * parshap__ is now known as parshap
  694. # [19:39] <annevk> oh man, that separate hosting thingy is exciting, I'm going to use that too
  695. # [19:39] <annevk> and update my blog post draft to not put blame on DreamHost for this
  696. # [19:40] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  697. # [19:40] <Hixie> heh
  698. # [19:40] <Hixie> what were you blaming dreamhost for? not being able to control them separately?
  699. # [19:41] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  700. # [19:41] <Hixie> oh yikes
  701. # [19:41] <Hixie> don't forget the trailing /
  702. # [19:42] * Hixie breaks whatwg.org
  703. # [19:47] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  704. # [19:50] * sspi______ is now known as sspi
  705. # [19:52] <annevk> That www.* would redirect to * first before redirecting to TLS. I also blamed them for not having HSTS support as a configuration, which still seems fair
  706. # [19:58] <Hixie> well it's trivial to add headers to all your sites
  707. # [19:58] <Hixie> i mean, you put one line in one file and you're done for all your sites
  708. # [20:00] <Hixie> ok so now i need secure icons for the browsers
  709. # [20:00] <Hixie> i'm tempted to just drop the stuff that says which browser implements what
  710. # [20:00] <Hixie> is there some better solution we can roll out?
  711. # [20:00] <Hixie> based on caniuse or something?
  712. # [20:00] <annevk> Hixie: html5.org has secure icons
  713. # [20:01] <annevk> Hixie: see https://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker
  714. # [20:01] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  715. # [20:01] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  716. # [20:01] <annevk> Although I think the preferred term is authenticated, since we don't know whether html5.org is actually secure
  717. # [20:04] <Hixie> i guess
  718. # [20:04] <annevk> Hixie: still failing basic checks on https://hstspreload.appspot.com/
  719. # [20:04] <annevk> Hixie: seems hard
  720. # [20:04] * TabAtkins_ is now known as TabAtkins
  721. # [20:05] <annevk> in particular they require the redirect to carry the HSTS header
  722. # [20:05] <Hixie> hstspreload.appspot.com is dumb. i tell it to check whatwg.org and it says i can't because it's a redirect. i tell it to check www.whatwg.org and it says i can't because it's a subdomain.
  723. # [20:06] <Hixie> oh well wait
  724. # [20:06] <Hixie> we don't want to be in that list
  725. # [20:06] <Hixie> not everything in whatwg.org is going to be HTTPS
  726. # [20:06] <Hixie> for example, n.whatwg.org
  727. # [20:06] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  728. # [20:09] * Joins: fila (~filaf@46.19.230.5)
  729. # [20:10] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:1008:8e2c:1e72:293d:c270:41c7)
  730. # [20:10] <TabAtkins> Domenic_: I'm not sure I understand why you want ecmarkdown to mark all OL bullets with the same number. I cant' find any reasoning behind it in the issues list for ecmarkup.
  731. # [20:10] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  732. # [20:10] <annevk> Hixie: the problem with not everything being HTTPS is that then users can be spoofed
  733. # [20:10] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi)
  734. # [20:10] <Hixie> annevk: how?
  735. # [20:10] <annevk> Hixie: it seems better to simply explain this on n.whatwg.org as a naming problem
  736. # [20:11] <annevk> Hixie: e.g. an attacker could make them visit secure.whatwg.org and present some login form
  737. # [20:11] <Hixie> login form to what?
  738. # [20:11] * Joins: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.239.72)
  739. # [20:11] <annevk> Hixie: blog or wiki or forums
  740. # [20:11] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.202.45.163)
  741. # [20:11] <annevk> Hixie: the includeSubdomain directive is there to prevent this problem
  742. # [20:11] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@135-23-143-163.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
  743. # [20:12] <Hixie> the blog and wiki and forums are open to everyone anyway
  744. # [20:12] <Hixie> they need but ask
  745. # [20:12] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@135-23-143-163.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  746. # [20:12] <Hixie> why would anyone go to the effort of somehow getting DNS to return a fake entry just to get someone's forum password?
  747. # [20:13] <jgraham> Well it's quite high probability that that user uses the pw elsewhere
  748. # [20:13] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-15-93.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  749. # [20:13] <Hixie> (that's why for the spec's own stuff i generate passwords instead of letting you set it)
  750. # [20:14] <svl> if the user is an admin, quite some damage can be done with that password
  751. # [20:14] <Hixie> if a whatwg blog admin can be phished in that way, we have bigger problems
  752. # [20:15] <Hixie> like, they're probably not qualified to be doing their job
  753. # [20:15] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  754. # [20:15] * Joins: willchan (willchan@nat/google/x-wmyglditcsbxfido)
  755. # [20:16] * nephyrin` is now known as nephyrin
  756. # [20:16] <Hixie> we also have company.demos.whatwg.org which isn't covered by a cert
  757. # [20:19] * Quits: beowulf (~sstewart@host86-185-210-219.range86-185.btcentralplus.com) (Changing host)
  758. # [20:19] * Joins: beowulf (~sstewart@pdpc/supporter/professional/beowulf)
  759. # [20:19] * Joins: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
  760. # [20:23] * Quits: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  761. # [20:25] <Hixie> annevk: isn't there some way we can secure the DNS so that they can't do that, btw? It seems like if they can add DNS entries, they can probably get certs for them anyway.
  762. # [20:25] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  763. # [20:28] * Quits: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.239.72) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  764. # [20:29] * Joins: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.238.59)
  765. # [20:38] <annevk> Hixie: from what I read DNSSEC doesn't really cover anything on top of TLS
  766. # [20:38] <annevk> Hixie: and as long as they don't control whatwg.org they cannot issue certificates for it if the CAs are doing their job
  767. # [20:38] * Quits: dbaron__ (~dbaron@50.0.192.112) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  768. # [20:39] <Hixie> you want to bet that there's no CA that'll issue a cert for a subdomain?
  769. # [20:39] <Hixie> how do you do certs fro dyndns.org style setups then?
  770. # [20:43] * Joins: erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@g229083066.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  771. # [20:43] * Joins: ShaneHudson (~ShaneHuds@host86-149-123-177.range86-149.btcentralplus.com)
  772. # [20:44] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  773. # [20:44] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@99.237.75.191)
  774. # [20:46] <Hixie> ok i'm going for lunch. Other than HSTS headers not being included in the https://whatwg.org to https://www.whatwg.org redirect, the existence of *.demos.whatwg.org, and the status of n.whatwg.org, i'm not aware of any open issues with respect to our TLS conversion.
  775. # [20:46] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@g226041003.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  776. # [20:47] <mathiasbynens> \o/
  777. # [20:49] * erlehmann_ is now known as erlehmann
  778. # [20:52] <annevk> sounds great
  779. # [20:52] * Quits: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.238.59) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  780. # [21:00] <annevk> mathiasbynens: are you using PHP? Have you had problems with the Header set directive not affecting PHP scripts?
  781. # [21:01] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Remote host closed the connection)
  782. # [21:02] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  783. # [21:03] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@2a01:e34:ed05:d180:9dd2:8808:9e84:b7d3)
  784. # [21:03] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:1008:8e2c:1e72:293d:c270:41c7) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  785. # [21:06] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  786. # [21:06] * Joins: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.238.55)
  787. # [21:09] * Joins: marcosc_ (~marcosc@135-23-143-163.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  788. # [21:09] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@135-23-143-163.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  789. # [21:12] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:2c04:2ee8:797:f046:156b:6bc6)
  790. # [21:14] * Quits: ShaneHudson (~ShaneHuds@host86-149-123-177.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  791. # [21:16] * Joins: mko (~mko@c-50-174-69-45.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  792. # [21:16] <mathiasbynens> annevk: yes and no
  793. # [21:19] <mathiasbynens> btw, time to change your freenode passwords everyone: https://blog.freenode.net/2014/09/server-issues-2/
  794. # [21:19] <mathiasbynens> annevk: details?
  795. # [21:23] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3)
  796. # [21:24] <TabAtkins> mathiasbynens: Thanks for the heads-up.
  797. # [21:27] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@172.56.8.134)
  798. # [21:28] * Joins: jyasskin_w (jyasskin@nat/google/x-fmgozpqynimexsky)
  799. # [21:33] <mathiasbynens> just updated https://javascript.spec.whatwg.org/ and auto-replaced all *.whatwg.org/*.html5.org/annevankesteren.nl links in my blog database — feels good
  800. # [21:35] <caitp> huh, what does sequence<T> mean when it's the return type of an idl-exposed method? is that somehow different from Array<T>?
  801. # [21:35] <TabAtkins> caitp: It means you're returning an array.
  802. # [21:35] <TabAtkins> Array<T> doesn't exist in WebIDL, does it?
  803. # [21:35] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.202.45.163) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  804. # [21:35] <caitp> I thought we already had an Array type in IDL
  805. # [21:36] <caitp> not Array<T> but T[]
  806. # [21:36] <TabAtkins> Those are different and terrible.
  807. # [21:37] <TabAtkins> I never remember exactly how/why.
  808. # [21:37] <TabAtkins> I've just learned over time that you should always use sequence<>.
  809. # [21:37] <caitp> nobody ever said webidl wasn't confusing :>
  810. # [21:39] <TabAtkins> Based on vague memories and reading the spec just now, T[] doesn't actually define a JS Array, just a look-alike.
  811. # [21:41] <caitp> I sort of thought it worked like rest parameters
  812. # [21:42] <caitp> sequence<> I mean
  813. # [21:42] <TabAtkins> ?
  814. # [21:42] <caitp> "this is a list representing a sequence of arguments", but I guess that doesn't make sense for a return value
  815. # [21:42] <TabAtkins> foo(sequence<T>) just means it'll take an array-like. It doesn't do any rest magic.
  816. # [21:43] <TabAtkins> IDL types in argument lists are just instructions for which conversion operation to do.
  817. # [21:43] <TabAtkins> They're actually "types" when used as return values.
  818. # [21:44] * Quits: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.238.55) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  819. # [21:44] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@2620:101:80fb:224:98c7:5e0f:51af:410)
  820. # [21:45] * Joins: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.238.116)
  821. # [21:45] * Quits: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159) (Remote host closed the connection)
  822. # [21:46] * Joins: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159)
  823. # [21:50] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@172.56.8.134) (Quit: tantek)
  824. # [21:51] * Quits: paulohp (~paulohp@201.52.249.159) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  825. # [21:53] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@ip-200.t2.se.opera.com)
  826. # [21:59] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  827. # [21:59] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  828. # [22:00] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  829. # [22:03] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  830. # [22:03] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  831. # [22:05] <annevk> mathiasbynens: I run PHP under DreamHost's FastCGI
  832. # [22:05] <annevk> mathiasbynens: it does not seem to pick up on .htaccess' set headers
  833. # [22:05] <annevk> mathiasbynens: evidence is annevankesteren.nl
  834. # [22:06] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-5-229.telstraclear.net)
  835. # [22:06] <mathiasbynens> annevk: HSTS, you mean?
  836. # [22:06] <annevk> mathiasbynens: yes
  837. # [22:06] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@2607:fb90:2c35:b71c:55af:74dc:91f7:f2d5)
  838. # [22:06] <mathiasbynens> what does the .htaccess look like
  839. # [22:06] * Quits: zenparsing (~zenparsin@97-81-81-172.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com)
  840. # [22:07] <mathiasbynens> Header set Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=31536000; includeSubDomains" env=HTTPS
  841. # [22:07] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:2c04:2ee8:797:f046:156b:6bc6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  842. # [22:07] <mathiasbynens> …is what i’m using
  843. # [22:07] <annevk> Yeah it looks like that, it's picked up by e.g. html5.org just fine
  844. # [22:08] <mathiasbynens> ah, indeed, and https://annevankesteren.nl/test/ has the correct header too
  845. # [22:08] <mathiasbynens> no clue tbh :/
  846. # [22:09] <mathiasbynens> annevk: http://serverfault.com/a/383063/13896
  847. # [22:10] <annevk> Header always set then?
  848. # [22:11] <mathiasbynens> i’d give that a try
  849. # [22:11] * Joins: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
  850. # [22:13] <annevk> nope
  851. # [22:13] <mathiasbynens> :(
  852. # [22:14] * npcomp_ is now known as npcomp
  853. # [22:17] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  854. # [22:18] * Quits: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  855. # [22:18] * Joins: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
  856. # [22:20] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@g229083066.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblowerplattform Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
  857. # [22:20] <annevk> mathiasbynens: https://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker which is a Python script includes the header regardless of the always setting
  858. # [22:21] <annevk> Reading those docs I wonder if Header unset X-Pad works
  859. # [22:22] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  860. # [22:25] * Quits: TimmyTones (~Tim@cpc69048-oxfd25-2-0-cust725.4-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  861. # [22:25] * Quits: slmult0 (~ctlM@80.83.238.116) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  862. # [22:27] * Joins: paulohp (~paulohp@201.54.224.235)
  863. # [22:30] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@2a01:e34:ed05:d180:9dd2:8808:9e84:b7d3) (Remote host closed the connection)
  864. # [22:33] <zcorpan> annevk: yeah i think php doesn't do anything with headers set in htaccess
  865. # [22:34] <annevk> But all over the web it's suggested it should
  866. # [22:34] <zcorpan> oh. then i dunno
  867. # [22:34] <mathiasbynens> zcorpan: it does for me, but then again i’m not using php-cgi
  868. # [22:35] <zcorpan> might need to flip something in php.ini or whatever. php has lots of twiddles
  869. # [22:36] <mathiasbynens> P̆ͭ҉̭̗H̓͆҉̸͞Pͧ̄҉͖̱
  870. # [22:36] <annevk> There's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libapache-mod-fastcgi/+bug/1368308
  871. # [22:36] <mathiasbynens> “This bug affects 1 person”
  872. # [22:37] * Quits: paulohp (~paulohp@201.54.224.235) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  873. # [22:37] <annevk> https://gist.github.com/mfdj/11122524 is someone with the same problem
  874. # [22:38] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  875. # [22:39] <mathiasbynens> give up and use `header()` i guess
  876. # [22:39] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host86-186-193-22.range86-186.btcentralplus.com)
  877. # [22:42] <annevk> Almost did configuration with a single file for a dozen domains, now I have to hack dozens of PHP files
  878. # [22:42] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  879. # [22:43] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.204)
  880. # [22:47] <annevk> If it would not be such a hassle to switch from DreamHost...
  881. # [22:49] * Joins: paulohp (~paulohp@201.54.224.235)
  882. # [22:55] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman) (Quit: Leaving.)
  883. # [22:58] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  884. # [22:59] <jgraham> There's an element of sunk cost fallacy about that argument :)
  885. # [23:00] <zcorpan> annevk: fwiw opera hides https://
  886. # [23:00] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@2620:101:80fb:224:98c7:5e0f:51af:410) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  887. # [23:01] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@2620:101:80fb:232:3d5e:4fa6:10aa:1e58)
  888. # [23:01] <annevk> jgraham: it's opportunity cost I think
  889. # [23:01] <annevk> jgraham: since switching is non-zero-cost
  890. # [23:01] * Joins: say2joe1 (~say2joe@rrcs-76-79-68-2.west.biz.rr.com)
  891. # [23:02] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@rrcs-76-79-68-2.west.biz.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  892. # [23:02] <annevk> Seems I already somewhat started on a common header include file, yay me
  893. # [23:03] * annevk submitted a whole bunch of sites to https://hstspreload.appspot.com/
  894. # [23:03] <jgraham> annevk: Right, but if the cost of switching in the long term is smaller than the cost of maintaining the DH setup it's a poor choice
  895. # [23:03] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  896. # [23:04] <jgraham> I have no idea if it is or not
  897. # [23:05] <annevk> I might try rent a VPS with TransIP at some point and play around to see if it meets my needs
  898. # [23:06] <annevk> Having full control over the server and DNS is somewhat enticing
  899. # [23:06] * Joins: jeremyj_ (~jeremyj@17.202.49.56)
  900. # [23:07] <jgraham> Seems kind of expensive after the first 3 months
  901. # [23:10] <zcorpan> jgraham: opera 12 showed the path, it just hid the query and hash (and scheme)
  902. # [23:10] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3)
  903. # [23:11] <annevk> jgraham: I'm open to recommendations I guess
  904. # [23:11] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@unaffiliated/maurice)
  905. # [23:12] <annevk> jgraham: ideally I'd have something managed, but also full control...
  906. # [23:12] <jgraham> zcorpan: Yeah, you're right. I just remember it did something very annoying. And I spent a long time arguing with Sigbjørn that it would be very annoying and eventually I did indeed find it very annoying :)
  907. # [23:13] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
  908. # [23:13] <zcorpan> i also find it annoying (hiding the scheme is ok so long as copy/paste includes it)
  909. # [23:13] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:7dc3:1557:1e37:f60b)
  910. # [23:14] <jgraham> Yeah, the scheme is fine, I don't really use it to locate myself. But the query is the most important thing on many sites
  911. # [23:15] * Quits: r4vi (~r4vi@184.106.109.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
  912. # [23:15] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@208.184.147.3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  913. # [23:17] * Joins: r4vi (~r4vi@184.106.109.213)
  914. # [23:18] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:7dc3:1557:1e37:f60b) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  915. # [23:21] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  916. # [23:22] <zcorpan> Hixie: does n.whatwg.org need to exist?
  917. # [23:22] <jgraham> annevk: Well I have used Linode who seem to be OK
  918. # [23:24] <zcorpan> annevk: is it a problem if n.whatwg.org doesn't use TLS?
  919. # [23:25] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  920. # [23:28] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@109.201.152.225) (Quit: Leaving.)
  921. # [23:31] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@2620:101:80fb:232:3d5e:4fa6:10aa:1e58) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  922. # [23:32] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@2620:101:80fb:224:9503:aff:1d27:8627)
  923. # [23:32] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@50.167.218.18)
  924. # [23:33] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@50.167.218.18) (Changing host)
  925. # [23:33] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  926. # [23:34] <jgraham> I think that "does it need to exist" is a better question
  927. # [23:38] <zcorpan> seems like it's a problem if the HSTS header for whatwg.org says includeSubDomains? but yeah
  928. # [23:39] <Hixie> zcorpan: well, it's a minted namespace.
  929. # [23:39] <Hixie> zcorpan: so some people think it should
  930. # [23:39] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@c-98-250-130-237.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  931. # [23:40] <Hixie> the HSTS header for whatwg.org doesn't currently includeSubdomains because of n.whatwg.org and company.demos.whatwg.org
  932. # [23:41] <annevk> See also http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6797#section-14.4 for why includeSubdomains exists
  933. # [23:42] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@5ED090B0.cm-7-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  934. # [23:42] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@5ED090B0.cm-7-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  935. # [23:42] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  936. # [23:42] <jgraham> What is company.demos.whatwg.org?
  937. # [23:43] <Hixie> annevk: seems like a serious problem to me if people can add new subdomains
  938. # [23:43] <Hixie> annevk: i'm also confused as to how dyndns.org and local intranet sites (e.g. printers) are supposed to get certs
  939. # [23:44] * Quits: bnicholson (~bnicholso@2620:101:80fc:224:8517:d573:db3b:4a82) (Remote host closed the connection)
  940. # [23:45] * scheib___ is now known as scheib
  941. # [23:46] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  942. # [23:46] * Quits: scheib (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrpflxiuswljuxsm)
  943. # [23:46] <annevk> Hixie: you need to get public names for your local intranet starting November 2015
  944. # [23:47] * Joins: scheib (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvfayscnwhmcirps)
  945. # [23:47] <annevk> Hixie: I hope we can find something better than this CA system though
  946. # [23:47] <annevk> Hixie: there's http://tack.io/ but it seems dormant
  947. # [23:48] <Hixie> how do you mean, "you need to get public names for your local intranet starting November 2015"
  948. # [23:48] <Hixie> and are you saying that you can't host web sites using TLS on *.dyndns.org ?
  949. # [23:50] * Parts: guybedford (~guybedfor@41-133-249-7.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  950. # [23:55] <Hixie> jgraham: some demo site linked to from http://whatwg.org/demos/
  951. # [23:55] <Hixie> jgraham: do you like the new html spec url btw?
  952. # [23:55] <willchan> if you can prove ownership of the {x}.dyndns.org hostname to a SSL CA doing domain validation, then you can serve https for it
  953. # [23:55] <annevk> Hixie: see e.g. https://www.digicert.com/internal-names.htm for the November 2015 change in CA policies
  954. # [23:56] <annevk> I wish I had a better reference, maybe something on https://cabforum.org/
  955. # [23:56] <annevk> I said the other day something about TC39 being bad, CA|B is worse
  956. # [23:56] <annevk> Or CA/B
  957. # [23:57] <willchan> annevk: there's hpkp (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-key-pinning) which is supported today (whereas tack is still a WIP). it's fairly high maintenance though.
  958. # [23:58] <annevk> https://cabforum.org/internal-names/ looks like a more formal announcement of the November 2015 thing
  959. # [23:59] <zcorpan> Hixie: annevk: ok added a header for forums.whatwg.org
  960. # Session Close: Tue Sep 16 00:00:00 2014

The end :)