/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-09-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 17 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:05] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  4. # [00:07] <annevk> nice
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  19. # [01:04] <zcorpan> annevk: i've updated icons on web-apps-tracker
  20. # [01:06] <zcorpan> hmm possibly the svg ones need width="32" height="32" so that background-size:50% works for Hixie
  21. # [01:08] <Domenic> calling it now: svg is the next tls/utf8
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  23. # [01:09] <zcorpan> Domenic: svg is old man :-)
  24. # [01:10] <Domenic> probably newer than tls :P
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  26. # [01:12] <zcorpan> annevk: pls review and deploy if it looks ok
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  28. # [01:14] <zcorpan> i added a logo for chrome but it's not used yet
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  30. # [01:19] <GPHemsley> Hixie: What's going on? Do I need to do something?
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  35. # [01:21] <Hixie> the faq is not getting its style sheet
  36. # [01:21] <Hixie> probably mixed content issue
  37. # [01:21] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Can you be more specific? I'm not seeing anything wrong.
  38. # [01:22] <Hixie> oh, hm
  39. # [01:22] <Hixie> it's working now
  40. # [01:22] <GPHemsley> oh
  41. # [01:22] <GPHemsley> logged out only, maybe
  42. # [01:22] <Hixie> ah, yes
  43. # [01:22] <Hixie> whatwg.org/faq when logged out
  44. # [01:22] <Hixie> results in no styles
  45. # [01:22] <GPHemsley> ah, yeah, I think that's cached
  46. # [01:22] <GPHemsley> hang on
  47. # [01:22] <Hixie> though actually
  48. # [01:22] <Hixie> if we can change the styles for that page when logged out specifically...
  49. # [01:22] <Hixie> might be worth doing...
  50. # [01:23] <GPHemsley> well, I think I have it set up so that the anonymous pages are cached
  51. # [01:23] <GPHemsley> but the logged-in ones aren't
  52. # [01:23] <GPHemsley> or something
  53. # [01:23] <GPHemsley> it's been a while
  54. # [01:23] <Hixie> since that page with no styles and the headers and footers removed looks better than that page with the mediawiki styles
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  56. # [01:25] <GPHemsley> well, it's every logged out page
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  59. # [01:29] <GPHemsley> now if only I could remember my login details..
  60. # [01:31] <Hixie> btw, i've made the mailing-list page not mention lists.whatwg.org so that it doesn't much matter anymore
  61. # [01:32] <Hixie> wow, https://www.w3.org actually redirects (with a valid cert) to http://www.w3.org?
  62. # [01:32] <Hixie> that seems worse than not having anything on https://...
  63. # [01:35] <GPHemsley> Hixie: How pressing is this wiki issue?
  64. # [01:35] <Hixie> *shrug*
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  66. # [01:36] <Hixie> it makes the wiki ugly
  67. # [01:36] <Hixie> how serious that is, that's your call :-)
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  69. # [01:37] <GPHemsley> hey, I'm logged in all the time, so it makes no difference to me :P
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  76. # [01:49] <Hixie> you have got to love the w3c, really
  77. # [01:50] <Hixie> on the one hand you have jeff saying how much the w3c respects the whatwg
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  79. # [01:50] <Hixie> and on the other hand you have checkins consisting of only the text "minor fixes" that remove even a small suggestion of a mention of the whatwg _which included a 'stable' reference_.
  80. # [01:50] <Hixie> https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/5665b66d3bc7720fcaaeff5817e6eacbf782d835
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  83. # [01:51] <Hixie> i mean, the relevant text is only 2 days old (https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/5b04c84af9bb460fa0ffddb5af7fac41a17b1938)
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  87. # [01:53] <Hixie> man i wish the ietf had stable specs
  88. # [01:54] <Hixie> by which i mean a url that i could reference for a particular technology that wouldn't change over time when they update the spec
  89. # [01:54] <Hixie> instead of the current situation where every 5 days some spec or other gets obsoleted and i have to update all my IETF references
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  99. # [02:06] <MikeSmith> Hixie: help.whatwg.org is currently just the place where I run scripts that scrape the meta@name and link relation wikis to generate lists of registered keywords. I could move the scripts elsewhere if needed
  100. # [02:06] <Hixie> ah, cool
  101. # [02:06] <Hixie> no that's fine
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  619. # [09:23] <annevk> zcorpan: did not review, did deploy
  620. # [09:23] <annevk> zcorpan: seems to look okay though
  621. # [09:23] <zcorpan> annevk: thx
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  623. # [09:25] <zcorpan> i see Hixie already used background-size:cover so the spec's icons still have the right size
  624. # [09:25] <annevk> Oh is he hotlinking these now?
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  626. # [09:26] <annevk> He is
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  629. # [09:27] <annevk> zcorpan: they might need to be even bigger to cover these new x3 screens
  630. # [09:28] <annevk> zcorpan: also, can we do multiple images for background-image yet? I heard with icons you don't really want to downscale a high resolution icon, but provide your own low resolution
  631. # [09:28] <annevk> zcorpan: not sure if we should care for this use case though
  632. # [09:29] <zcorpan> annevk: i'm not convinced that it's ugly on 3x
  633. # [09:30] <annevk> Hmm, people are actually using my WebVTT validator: https://github.com/annevk/webvtt/issues/5
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  636. # [09:32] <zcorpan> annevk: are there browser icons that are 2x or 3x that are designed for 16x16 CSS pixels size?
  637. # [09:32] <annevk> zcorpan: no idea
  638. # [09:34] <zcorpan> https://github.com/alrra/browser-logos doesn't seem to have such a thing at least
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  640. # [09:40] <zcorpan> i could have used the 16x16 icon in src and 32x32 in srcset but i don't really care about optimizing for 1x screens
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  719. # [12:38] <annevk> Oh hey, the W3C imagined interoperability: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/PR-html5-20140916/
  720. # [12:39] <annevk> for jgraham: http://intertwingly.net/blog/2014/09/16/The-URL-Mess#c1410950300
  721. # [12:41] <smaug____> PR requires interoperability
  722. # [12:41] <smaug____> ?
  723. # [12:41] <annevk> smaug____: exciting CR does
  724. # [12:41] * smaug____ has so forgotten which *R requires what
  725. # [12:41] <annevk> oops, exiting
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  727. # [12:44] <jgraham> "exciting" was better
  728. # [12:44] <jgraham> POssibly as it "it would be exciting if a spec in CR actually had interoperability"
  729. # [12:44] <annevk> heh
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  731. # [12:45] <caitp> wouldn't it though?
  732. # [12:47] <darobin> I completely thought that "exciting" was on purpose :)
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  745. # [13:07] * tantek reads the blog post that annevk linked to
  746. # [13:07] <tantek> this: " It seems pretty clear at this point that IETF/IANA has a pretty poor track record when it comes to registries."
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  751. # [13:18] <annevk> tantek: that's from the comments :p
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  753. # [13:23] <tantek> annevke I know :)
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  761. # [14:07] <darobin> don't get me started on IANA :)
  762. # [14:07] * darobin just registered five media types with them
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  801. # [16:00] <annevk> I don't understand why https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/::selection was killed and ::first-line or ::first-letter was not
  802. # [16:06] <annevk> hsivonen: https://hsivonen.fi/extended-uncertainty/ example site went out of business
  803. # [16:06] <zcorpan> csswg decided to add back ::selection
  804. # [16:06] <annevk> can Gecko unprefix then?
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  807. # [16:16] <tantek> darn I wanted to see a citation to re-adding ::selection
  808. # [16:17] <tantek> I remember some discussions about that...
  809. # [16:17] <tantek> annevk: current status of ::selection AFAIK is this issue: http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css3-ui#issue-30
  810. # [16:18] <tantek> which means it's yet another thing in my pile :/
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  947. # [17:45] <Domenic> spec.whatwg.org still dead? :(
  948. # [17:45] <Hixie> you can use https://whatwg.org/specs in the meantime
  949. # [17:45] <Hixie> it's the same file
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  959. # [18:06] <Domenic> service worker without fetch? O_O
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  972. # [18:21] <annevk> I feel sorry for slightlyoff_ if that happens
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  974. # [18:21] <annevk> He was so adamant about offline being essential and a v0 feature
  975. # [18:23] <annevk> hsivonen: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.dev.security.policy/RnAx-t-wOVU/dYjKJF4E7L8J
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  977. # [18:25] <jgraham> Uh, what?
  978. # [18:26] <jgraham> I thought offline was the point of service worker and everything else was tacked on
  979. # [18:26] <jgraham> It certainly seems like the most pressing problem to solve
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  985. # [18:32] <annevk> jgraham: see https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/463 for context
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  987. # [18:32] <annevk> Domenic: don't reply from your phone :p looks bad https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/445#issuecomment-55918543
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  996. # [18:58] <annevk> That http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/CR-encoding-20140916/indexes/index-big5.txt does not have the correct encoding amuses me
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  1000. # [19:01] <annevk> Hixie: since pretty much all specs use dfn.js, perhaps it should move? Not sure I care strongly though
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  1106. # [19:21] <Hixie> annevk: i recommend copying dfn.js. i don't guarantee i won't change it arbitrarily to match what html needs.
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  1110. # [19:26] <smaug____> annevk: I was chatting with sicking yesterday, and sounds like we should have persistent and non-persistent notifications. And service worker should be supported too. Need to think about the API - it may end up being quite a bit different from what it is today. Luckily .get() is implemented in Gecko only
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  1136. # [20:02] <annevk> Hixie: okay
  1137. # [20:02] <annevk> smaug____: okay, if you could do so within a couple of weeks that'd be great
  1138. # [20:03] <annevk> smaug____: I'd like to update it to support service workers
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  1167. # [20:46] <Domenic> annevk: I or someone else can always edit out the cruft.
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  1196. # [21:38] <Hixie> so re our conversation yesterday about whether w3c's namespace redirect confuses people:
  1197. # [21:38] <Hixie> http://www.hiphopcanada.com/tag/partynextdoor/
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  1199. # [21:38] <Hixie> view-source:http://www.richbone.com/kansetsu/ill/ill.htm
  1200. # [21:38] <Hixie> http://beheretowitness.com/seating-pricing/
  1201. # [21:39] <Hixie> there's lots of sites that have the wrong namespace
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  1203. # [21:39] <Hixie> and i wouldn't be surprised if it started from that redirect
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  1205. # [21:40] <rubys> annevk: ping?
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  1211. # [21:52] <annevk> rubys: if you leave a question I can get back to you within the next couple of hours most likely, only behind the laptop sporadically during the evening
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  1213. # [21:53] <rubys> I'll probably take it to the whatwg list. I'm looking to sketch out a "URL differences" document comparable to the "HTML differences" document; any pointers would be appreciated.
  1214. # [21:53] <rubys> Meanwhile, I'm scanning the spec for likely candidates.
  1215. # [21:53] <rubys> Will post a first draft when my scan is complete.
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  1218. # [21:57] <annevk> cool cool cool
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  1222. # [22:04] <Domenic> https://twitter.com/yaypie/status/512325679191322624
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  1244. # [22:45] <Hixie> jamesr_: yt?
  1245. # [22:45] <Hixie> jamesr_: does http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2014JulSep/0091.html still match your desires?
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  1247. # [22:45] <Hixie> jamesr_: and if so, should i assume that if i hook into https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webperf/raw-file/tip/specs/RequestAnimationFrame/Overview.html#processingmodel you'll update that spec to not longer involve a task but just to expose the algorithm?
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  1249. # [22:47] <terinjokes> Domenic: we resolved that problem by creating our own format and expecting everyone else to just use it
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  1263. # [23:11] <annevk> Interesting, per http://caniuse.com/#search=apng Safari on iOS 8 supports APNG
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  1269. # [23:29] <jamesr_> Hixie: that matches my desires, but i'm not sure that i've thought through all the consequences correctly
  1270. # [23:32] <Domenic> annevk: yeah, I wonder if people will start using it on mobile and thus force Chrome to support it
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  1272. # [23:32] <Domenic> Then we would finally have a winner
  1273. # [23:33] <Domenic> Although browsers have some catching up to do with http://geelen.github.io/x-gif/#/http://i.imgur.com/iKXH4E2.gif
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The end :)