/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-10-01 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed Oct 01 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <annevk> zcorpan: I hope it will encourage people to file bugs instead
  4. # [00:01] <annevk> zcorpan: we'll see what happens, I don't get that many personal emails about these standards anyway, and mostly they would be better aimed at a public list
  5. # [00:02] <zcorpan> yeah
  6. # [00:03] <annevk> zcorpan: not as bad as https://annevankesteren.nl/2006/03/smil
  7. # [00:03] <annevk> zcorpan: re TTML
  8. # [00:03] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.81.132) (Quit: weinig)
  9. # [00:04] <zcorpan> yeah but i would have hoped they didn't repeat the same mistake. /ns/ suggests it's relatively new
  10. # [00:05] <annevk> cue "You must be new here"
  11. # [00:07] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  12. # [00:08] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-20-67.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  13. # [00:11] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@209.49.73.82)
  14. # [00:12] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  15. # [00:13] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-19as.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  16. # [00:23] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@209.49.73.82) (Quit: Snuggling with the puppies)
  17. # [00:24] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  18. # [00:32] * Joins: mvujovic___ (sid13458@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-giyrxwhaprfbnmcw)
  19. # [00:32] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-158-1-20-67.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  20. # [00:38] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  21. # [00:42] * Quits: Bobby (~textual@38.88.227.110) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  22. # [00:42] * Quits: ericandrewlewis (uid32062@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lgxitgdqfkvaplbm) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  23. # [00:47] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  24. # [00:47] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  25. # [00:50] <SimonSapin> Domenic, wycats: so, what dherman was talking about is that Servo converts absolute CSS length units like cm and in to px early, in the parser. But we may have to change that, it’s unclear how much CSSOM is expected to preserve the original formatting of stuff
  26. # [00:50] * Quits: howitdo (~howitdo@unaffiliated/howitdo) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  27. # [00:51] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203) (Quit: Leaving...)
  28. # [00:51] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@172.56.39.190) (Quit: tantek)
  29. # [00:52] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@wsip-24-249-210-3.ri.ri.cox.net) (Quit: adactio)
  30. # [00:55] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203)
  31. # [00:57] * Joins: newtron_ (~newtron@199.71.174.204)
  32. # [00:57] <odinho> Feels a bit weird not saving that metadata at least.
  33. # [00:58] <odinho> Some serializing-deserializing stuff will go bad. Or devtools.
  34. # [00:59] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:833:867d:c3ef:3e1c) (Remote host closed the connection)
  35. # [01:00] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  36. # [01:01] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@71-90-29-214.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com)
  37. # [01:02] * Quits: newtron_ (~newtron@199.71.174.204) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  38. # [01:04] * Joins: howitdo (~howitdo@cpe-071-068-106-211.carolina.res.rr.com)
  39. # [01:04] * Quits: howitdo (~howitdo@cpe-071-068-106-211.carolina.res.rr.com) (Changing host)
  40. # [01:04] * Joins: howitdo (~howitdo@unaffiliated/howitdo)
  41. # [01:10] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  42. # [01:15] * Quits: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.cpe.webspeed.dk) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  43. # [01:16] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  44. # [01:17] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  45. # [01:28] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-158-1-20-67.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: espadrine)
  46. # [01:28] <jgraham> Yeah at this point it's pretty unclear that any statement of the form "Servo has shown that X is possible" is actually true for values of X that might have compat impact
  47. # [01:29] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.29.214)
  48. # [01:40] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@2a00:801:e0:30:2071:5d8c:b58:a5d0) (Remote host closed the connection)
  49. # [01:48] * Quits: willchan (~willchan@216.239.55.138) (Remote host closed the connection)
  50. # [01:49] * Joins: willchan (~willchan@216.239.55.138)
  51. # [01:54] * Quits: willchan (~willchan@216.239.55.138) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  52. # [01:58] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-iihiwimhgikthoya) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
  53. # [01:58] * Joins: jdaggett_ (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  54. # [02:03] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.202.44.214)
  55. # [02:04] <wycats> SimonSapin: maybe you can just have an informational slot for the original?
  56. # [02:05] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.202.45.163) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  57. # [02:05] <wycats> jgraham: I think it's likely as true as many sentences of the form "Browser X has shown that Y is possible"
  58. # [02:05] <wycats> but those sentences are said incorrectly in many cases ;)
  59. # [02:07] * Quits: Sample (~Sample@unaffiliated/sample) (Quit: day over)
  60. # [02:07] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@69-196-133-205.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  61. # [02:08] <wycats> I believe the original sentence by dherman was of the form "Servo is doing some interesting experiments that seem to be working ok so far. They may be worth looking into"
  62. # [02:12] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@69-196-133-205.dsl.teksavvy.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  63. # [02:12] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  64. # [02:16] <jgraham> That formulation of the original seems reasonable. The broader form is less reasonable for servo since it is generally compatible with almost no web content so it's impossible to measure compat losses
  65. # [02:16] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@c-67-169-40-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  66. # [02:16] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.41)
  67. # [02:17] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@210.213.57.70)
  68. # [02:17] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.154.240) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  69. # [02:18] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  70. # [02:23] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@metro29st13.m.subnet.rcn.com)
  71. # [02:26] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.154.190)
  72. # [02:26] <wycats> I don't think that's an accurate assessment re: compat
  73. # [02:27] <wycats> but you may have a very high bar
  74. # [02:27] <Domenic> how can you not have a very high bar after Array.prototype.contains
  75. # [02:27] * Domenic cries
  76. # [02:28] <Domenic> (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1075059 for those following along at home)
  77. # [02:30] <terinjokes> what features are looking at being secure sites only?
  78. # [02:30] <terinjokes> i know Service Worker is one
  79. # [02:31] <Domenic> terinjokes: annevk is hoping we can move privacy-sensitive ones like geolocation and videocam access into secure only over the next year or so
  80. # [02:31] <Domenic> terinjokes: probably EME
  81. # [02:32] <Domenic> terinjokes: in Chrome, WebCrypto, since our security guys say it is bad to give the impression of a site using crypto when in reality they could be MitMed. But Firefox disagrees and is shipping it everywhere.
  82. # [02:32] <terinjokes> interesting
  83. # [02:35] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-69-203-128-218.si.res.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  84. # [02:35] <Domenic> also in general http://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security/prefer-secure-origins-for-powerful-new-features
  85. # [02:35] <smaug____> speech API should be probably secure only
  86. # [02:35] <terinjokes> ah thanks, I saw that at Edge, but didn't have a link for it
  87. # [02:35] <Domenic> i wonder if requestAutocomplete is restricted...
  88. # [02:39] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  89. # [02:40] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.29.214) (Quit: weinig)
  90. # [02:51] <terinjokes> for some reason i thought es6 modules, but looks like I'm wrong
  91. # [02:55] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@c-67-169-40-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: tantek)
  92. # [02:56] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  93. # [02:59] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  94. # [03:02] * Quits: eto (~eto@unaffiliated/eto) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  95. # [03:04] * Joins: eto (~eto@unaffiliated/eto)
  96. # [03:10] * Quits: bnicholson2 (~bnicholso@2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe25:a5c6) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  97. # [03:13] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@50-1-104-135.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  98. # [03:13] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@50-1-104-135.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Changing host)
  99. # [03:13] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
  100. # [03:15] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.41) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  101. # [03:16] * Joins: Mso150_g_s_s_j (~ctlM@217.118.64.42)
  102. # [03:18] * Quits: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1000:881f:72e:7b6:6419) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  103. # [03:22] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (Quit: sys.exit(0) # app closed)
  104. # [03:25] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-69-203-128-218.si.res.rr.com)
  105. # [03:29] * Joins: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1000:8004:4ae:6bd4:1b05)
  106. # [03:31] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  107. # [03:32] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  108. # [03:36] * Quits: terinjokes (~terinjoke@wikinews/Terinjokes) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  109. # [03:40] * Joins: terinjokes (~terinjoke@wikinews/Terinjokes)
  110. # [03:45] * Joins: bnicholson2 (~bnicholso@24.130.60.241)
  111. # [03:48] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@37-219-223-236.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi)
  112. # [03:50] * Quits: Mso150_g_s_s_j (~ctlM@217.118.64.42) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  113. # [04:03] * Joins: satazor_ (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  114. # [04:05] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl16-81-214.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  115. # [04:07] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  116. # [04:10] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  117. # [04:14] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@37-219-223-236.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  118. # [04:14] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  119. # [04:17] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  120. # [04:37] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe25:a5a3) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-8.1450hg.fc20 [XULRunner 31.0/20140725111610])
  121. # [04:52] * Joins: erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@89.204.155.205)
  122. # [04:54] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.202.43.222) (Quit: rniwa)
  123. # [04:55] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.154.190) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  124. # [05:02] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  125. # [05:05] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  126. # [05:09] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@c-24-4-202-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  127. # [05:09] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@c-76-126-173-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  128. # [05:20] * Joins: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.178.240.55)
  129. # [05:35] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  130. # [05:36] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  131. # [05:39] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-69-203-128-218.si.res.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  132. # [05:49] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  133. # [05:50] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@c-76-126-173-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: tantek)
  134. # [05:54] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  135. # [06:09] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@162.217.73.171)
  136. # [06:11] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@5ED090B0.cm-7-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  137. # [06:11] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@5ED090B0.cm-7-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  138. # [06:11] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  139. # [06:13] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  140. # [06:23] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  141. # [06:30] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113)
  142. # [06:39] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@2620:101:80fb:224:dd4:dea5:7884:8384) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  143. # [06:40] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113) (Remote host closed the connection)
  144. # [06:41] * Quits: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.178.240.55) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  145. # [07:00] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-219.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  146. # [07:06] * Joins: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.178.240.55)
  147. # [07:06] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  148. # [07:07] * Quits: jdaggett_ (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  149. # [07:14] * Quits: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.178.240.55) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  150. # [07:16] * Joins: dydz (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  151. # [07:17] * Joins: jdaggett_ (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  152. # [07:18] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-219.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Snuggling with the puppies)
  153. # [07:19] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Remote host closed the connection)
  154. # [07:21] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.112)
  155. # [07:23] * Quits: dydz (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydz)
  156. # [07:27] * Quits: gavin__ (~gavin@76.14.42.120) (Remote host closed the connection)
  157. # [07:34] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  158. # [07:37] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@210.213.57.70) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  159. # [07:41] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  160. # [07:43] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  161. # [07:46] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  162. # [07:48] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
  163. # [07:54] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@c-24-4-202-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  164. # [07:55] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  165. # [08:00] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-158-1-49-159.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  166. # [08:03] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  167. # [08:20] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@c-24-4-202-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  168. # [08:25] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  169. # [08:28] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@5.153.234.98)
  170. # [08:33] * Joins: Mso150 (~ctlM@217.118.64.46)
  171. # [08:36] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  172. # [08:36] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.112) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  173. # [08:41] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113)
  174. # [08:46] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@193.190.253.149)
  175. # [08:46] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  176. # [08:50] * Joins: hemanth (~hemanth@106.51.137.34)
  177. # [09:00] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@c-24-4-202-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  178. # [09:01] * Joins: cbr_ (~cbr@83.150.36.145)
  179. # [09:02] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@162.217.73.171) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  180. # [09:13] * Joins: benjamingr_ (uid23465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxvpycwprxscswui)
  181. # [09:14] * benjamingr_ is now known as benjamingr
  182. # [09:16] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  183. # [09:19] * Joins: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  184. # [09:22] <MikeSmith> about fetch/CORS behavior, is the server supposed to send the Access-Control-Allow-Origin for a 304?
  185. # [09:25] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@mtl93-18-78-208-93-24.fbx.proxad.net)
  186. # [09:32] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  187. # [09:42] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  188. # [09:44] <annevk> Domenic: it is
  189. # [09:44] <annevk> Domenic: https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/TLS tracks what I could find
  190. # [09:45] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  191. # [09:46] <annevk> terinjokes: ^
  192. # [09:46] * Quits: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-158-1-49-159.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  193. # [09:46] <annevk> MikeSmith: yeah, why not?
  194. # [09:47] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113)
  195. # [09:50] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  196. # [09:57] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  197. # [10:11] * Quits: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  198. # [10:14] * Quits: jdaggett_ (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  199. # [10:18] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  200. # [10:33] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  201. # [10:33] * Quits: satazor_ (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  202. # [10:34] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  203. # [10:38] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  204. # [10:47] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@2607:fb90:508:5884:17e0:ded4:75a5:7580)
  205. # [10:47] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  206. # [10:48] * Quits: Mso150 (~ctlM@217.118.64.46) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  207. # [10:53] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113) (Remote host closed the connection)
  208. # [10:53] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@li568-142.members.linode.com)
  209. # [10:54] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@ip-200.t2.se.opera.com)
  210. # [10:55] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  211. # [10:57] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  212. # [10:59] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  213. # [11:01] * Quits: ricea (~ricea@2401:fa00:4:1000:25b2:606a:acd8:2786) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  214. # [11:06] <zcorpan> i guess it's too late to make webrtc https only
  215. # [11:09] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@LMontsouris-656-01-02-84.w80-12.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  216. # [11:09] <Ms2ger> I dunno, is it?
  217. # [11:13] <jgraham> Depends if anyone is using in production on non https, doesn't it?
  218. # [11:14] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  219. # [11:14] <annevk> And how long that will last if we deprecate it, but I thought P2P stuff was already TLS-restricted
  220. # [11:14] * Joins: ricea (~ricea@2401:fa00:4:1000:d0e8:ddc:ab46:1da7)
  221. # [11:15] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@mtl93-18-78-208-93-24.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  222. # [11:18] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  223. # [11:23] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  224. # [11:24] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3223 - getUserMedia seems to be allowed on insecure in gecko/blink/presto at least (but it's prefixed in gecko/blink)
  225. # [11:25] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  226. # [11:27] * Quits: erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@89.204.155.205) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblowerplattform Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
  227. # [11:28] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.155.205)
  228. # [11:28] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  229. # [11:29] <annevk> zcorpan: oh, getUserMedia(), yes, there's a thread about that on public-media-capture that I still need to reply to
  230. # [11:30] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  231. # [11:31] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  232. # [11:32] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  233. # [11:33] * Quits: sarri (~sari@p50995cae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  234. # [11:34] * Joins: sarri (~sari@p50995cae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  235. # [11:36] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  236. # [11:37] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  237. # [11:39] * Quits: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpweotzrpfltwwto) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  238. # [11:40] * Joins: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnqzxrijhhbgxnco)
  239. # [11:44] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  240. # [11:56] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  241. # [11:59] <MikeSmith> annevk: for http://people.w3.org/mike/tests/fetch/ an Access-Control-Allow-Origin is sent wwith 200 responses as expected but not for 304 responses
  242. # [12:00] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  243. # [12:00] <annevk> MikeSmith: so you won't get to read the 304 response
  244. # [12:01] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  245. # [12:01] <MikeSmith> oh?
  246. # [12:02] * Joins: tommyliu_ (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113)
  247. # [12:03] <MikeSmith> annevk: ah because the browser just revalidates the cache entry?
  248. # [12:05] <annevk> MikeSmith: so this might actually be wrong in Fetch I guess
  249. # [12:05] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@li568-142.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  250. # [12:05] <annevk> MikeSmith: currently we do a CORS check before we handle response statuses
  251. # [12:07] <annevk> MikeSmith: but even for redirects we require CORS checks to be done
  252. # [12:07] <annevk> MikeSmith: and this is effectively a redirect, so...
  253. # [12:07] <MikeSmith> ok
  254. # [12:08] <annevk> MikeSmith: are you encountering an issue?
  255. # [12:12] <MikeSmith> annevk: I had been thinking it was a bug because of seeing "XMLHttpRequest cannot load ... No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present on the requested resource." when testing
  256. # [12:13] <MikeSmith> but now I realize maybe it was just because I was getting a stale cached copy from prior to when the .htaccess file was changed to add the header
  257. # [12:14] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  258. # [12:19] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  259. # [12:34] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@193.190.253.149) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  260. # [12:36] <annevk> jungkees: I'm not sure if it's worth repeating, but what you should focus on is the model
  261. # [12:36] <annevk> jungkees: what objects are in play, what is their lifetime, what objects are they associated with
  262. # [12:37] <annevk> jungkees: and then define that model in detail
  263. # [12:37] <annevk> jungkees: and then when you define something like the installing attribute, it will simply return one of the objects in that model
  264. # [12:38] <annevk> jungkees: the way you are writing the service worker specification now will not get you to the finish line
  265. # [12:38] * Joins: alystair (~alystair@108-162-185-61.cable.teksavvy.com)
  266. # [12:38] <alystair> Anyone here happen to have a coupon code for the W3C validator suite? registering now >_>
  267. # [12:42] <annevk> I suspect MikeSmith does, but he's prolly not allowed to share those :-)
  268. # [12:42] <jungkees> annevk: Thanks for the comment. I'll soon have time to revisit that point.
  269. # [12:43] <annevk> jungkees: no rush btw, please do enjoy your time off or whatever it is you're doing now :-)
  270. # [12:43] <alystair> is there a room similar to #whatwg but for CSS spec?
  271. # [12:43] <annevk> jungkees: if you need help let me know
  272. # [12:43] <annevk> alystair: irc.w3.org has #css
  273. # [12:44] <alystair> I need to know who to blame for inner box-shadow rendering on <img>
  274. # [12:44] <jungkees> annevk: definitely. I need your help over time :-)
  275. # [12:44] <alystair> (or lack of it)
  276. # [12:44] <alystair> thanks
  277. # [12:45] <MikeSmith> alystair: I Just use the free validator, and for batch validation, the jar from https://github.com/validator/validator.github.io/releases/latest
  278. # [12:48] <jgraham> Woah, the W3C moved into validator sales?
  279. # [12:49] <alystair> perhaps W3C mug sales were not as brisk as they'd hoped? ;)
  280. # [12:49] <jgraham> Oh does that explain why the W3C is still full of mugs?
  281. # [12:49] <annevk> jgraham: apparently getting paid by members was not enough
  282. # [12:49] <jgraham> (sorry ;)
  283. # [12:50] <alystair> too much coffee not enough tea~
  284. # [12:50] <annevk> I use my W3C mug regularly for tea
  285. # [12:50] <annevk> I got mine from Amy though
  286. # [12:51] <alystair> (I didn't actually know they had mugs, more humorous than I expected)
  287. # [12:51] <annevk> Now I kind of want a WHATWG mug
  288. # [12:51] <annevk> Has anyone figured out how WHATWG green translates to print?
  289. # [12:52] <jgraham> I imagine it looks just as bad as on screen :)
  290. # [12:52] <darobin> probably just about as ugly?
  291. # [12:52] <jgraham> heh
  292. # [12:53] <alystair> "ugly mug" would have a much more literal meaning :D
  293. # [12:53] <annevk> We made a t-shirt once, that almost nobody understands. I think I still have mine somewhere and I see hober wearing it sometimes
  294. # [12:53] <jgraham> (back on the subject of the validator suite, those "testimonials" look like filler content)
  295. # [12:54] <zcorpan> createMathMLDocument() huh. http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/appendixd.html
  296. # [12:54] <MikeSmith> jgraham: hey I spent a lot of time writing those testimonials
  297. # [12:54] <annevk> It looks they're still for sale: http://five-gt-two.spreadshirt.com/
  298. # [12:57] <annevk> We even have wallpapers: http://whatwg.majda.cz/wallpapers/
  299. # [12:59] <jgraham> I was hoping for the kind of wallpaper you can use to decorate your home
  300. # [13:00] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  301. # [13:10] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@135-23-143-163.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  302. # [13:11] <annevk> heh
  303. # [13:14] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@ip-200.t2.se.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  304. # [13:15] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  305. # [13:20] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  306. # [13:20] * Quits: tommyliu_ (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113) (Remote host closed the connection)
  307. # [13:21] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@li568-142.members.linode.com)
  308. # [13:25] * Quits: hemanth (~hemanth@106.51.137.34) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  309. # [13:31] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.73)
  310. # [13:32] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-24-2-162-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  311. # [13:32] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-24-2-162-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  312. # [13:32] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  313. # [13:32] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Remote host closed the connection)
  314. # [13:47] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194)
  315. # [13:49] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  316. # [13:50] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@46-239-239-203.tal.is)
  317. # [13:51] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  318. # [13:52] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.73) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  319. # [13:53] <annevk> I looked into the style sheet for specifications other than HTML. It seems that for wider screens we could float the table of contents to the right. Perhaps put a border around it or some such or some a wide enough margin.
  320. # [13:53] <annevk> We could also remove the gap on the left. HTML uses that for infoboxes but no other spec has infoboxes at this point and unless Hixie generalizes the API I don't see that happening.
  321. # [13:53] * Joins: tommyliu_ (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113)
  322. # [13:53] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  323. # [13:54] <annevk> zcorpan does place the "select text to file a bug" widget in that left margin, but I'm sure we can think of something.
  324. # [13:54] <annevk> Removing the wide left margin would also allow us to fit more text on the screen for mobile devices. Apparently people do read specs on their phones.
  325. # [13:56] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  326. # [13:56] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@li568-142.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  327. # [13:56] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.73)
  328. # [13:58] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  329. # [14:01] <annevk> Oh, back in '96 W3C used the MIT license: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-png-961001#Credits
  330. # [14:02] <annevk> Of course, even that was a regression from: http://www.w3.org/Policy.html
  331. # [14:05] * Quits: alystair (~alystair@108-162-185-61.cable.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  332. # [14:05] * Joins: alystair (~alystair@108.162.185.61)
  333. # [14:07] <Domenic> wow 5 > 2 that is kind of subtle these days
  334. # [14:07] <zcorpan> i think i don't have mine anymore
  335. # [14:08] <darobin> Domenic: yeah, it comes off almost ironic now
  336. # [14:09] <darobin> I guess today it comes down to a battle between 5 > null and 5 > undefined ;)
  337. # [14:09] <Domenic> heh yeah
  338. # [14:09] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  339. # [14:13] <Domenic> broken link at the bottom of https://whatwg.org/specs/. /cc Hixie I guess
  340. # [14:13] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  341. # [14:13] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  342. # [14:17] <MikeSmith> jgraham: oh man those testimonials really are about completely unispiring as they could be
  343. # [14:18] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I think it just needs pictures, like at http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-antifacebook-social-network-ello-boasts-lack-o,37035/
  344. # [14:18] <MikeSmith> jgraham: hey, could even borrow even do a variation on the “No advertising is nice, but what really appeals to me is the lack of users.” quote there. Good fit
  345. # [14:21] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:2ec:f8d9:eace:d8bd:1281)
  346. # [14:21] <annevk> So, when you iterate over FormData you get an Array that consists of DOMString and a File? Does that seem appropriate, Domenic?
  347. # [14:21] <zcorpan> what testimonials?
  348. # [14:22] <Domenic> annevk: not an array, an iterator. but yes.
  349. # [14:22] <annevk> Domenic: well each iterator value would be an array due to lack of tuples, no?
  350. # [14:23] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: middle of https://validator-suite.w3.org/
  351. # [14:23] <Domenic> annevk: ah right i misread
  352. # [14:23] <annevk> For URLSearchParams, it would be DOMString, DOMString; Headers would be ByteString, ByteString
  353. # [14:23] * MikeSmith peruses https://github.com/whatwg/loader
  354. # [14:26] <Domenic> annevk: agree
  355. # [14:26] <Domenic> annevk: that is the default iterator; you also want keys() and values() iterators
  356. # [14:27] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  357. # [14:30] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
  358. # [14:31] <annevk> "enhanced validity"
  359. # [14:31] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  360. # [14:31] <annevk> Too bad Extended Validation is already a thing
  361. # [14:32] <MikeSmith> oh man I guess I'd be better off having not tried to actually read that page
  362. # [14:32] <jgraham> annevk: "enhanced validity" is going to be the tagline for W3C's new unsolicited email marketing campaign
  363. # [14:33] <MikeSmith> jgraham: that was considered but I think the consensus decision was to go with "now with turbo boost"
  364. # [14:34] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  365. # [14:34] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.73) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  366. # [14:35] * Joins: hemanth (~hemanth@122.178.240.55)
  367. # [14:35] <MikeSmith> annevk: trying to figure out how to fit "Reasonably unfiltered" into the messaging there
  368. # [14:35] <jgraham> "can't perform in your text editor? Women laugh at your markup? Get enhanced validity now"
  369. # [14:35] <MikeSmith> hahah
  370. # [14:36] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa49-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  371. # [14:37] <annevk> Domenic: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26183#c17
  372. # [14:38] <annevk> jgraham: that's a bit sexist
  373. # [14:39] <jgraham> annevk: I was thinking of viagra spam, which is generally marketed at men
  374. # [14:44] <Domenic> annevk: seems similar to the MapLikeIterator from that other bug
  375. # [14:44] <Domenic> annevk: which was blocked on figuring out what the abstract model should be
  376. # [14:45] <Domenic> annevk: "blocked" = "I was too lazy to propose that part because it is harder"
  377. # [14:45] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  378. # [14:49] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  379. # [14:49] <annevk> Domenic: perhaps at this point IDL should just expose the hooks for iterators as I suggested in the end and we can define the templates ourselves
  380. # [14:49] <annevk> Domenic: templates for multimap-like, set-like, etc.
  381. # [14:50] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa49-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  382. # [14:50] <annevk> Domenic: and then much later uplift the whole thing to something better
  383. # [14:52] <Domenic> seems reasonable I guess
  384. # [14:53] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3a-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  385. # [14:54] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  386. # [14:58] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  387. # [14:59] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.155.205) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblowerplattform Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
  388. # [15:00] * Quits: nickstenn (~nickstenn@pdpc/supporter/student/borior) (Quit: Bye)
  389. # [15:01] * Joins: nickstenn (~nickstenn@pdpc/supporter/student/borior)
  390. # [15:02] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  391. # [15:02] * Quits: sballesteros (sid39846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xealphqdggiwsioh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  392. # [15:03] * Joins: sballesteros (sid39846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fkgibqugtofhufer)
  393. # [15:08] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-19as.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net)
  394. # [15:08] * Joins: Bobby (~textual@38.88.227.110)
  395. # [15:08] * Quits: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxugauafyxearuzb) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  396. # [15:10] <beverloo> annevk, what exception for incorrect invocation?
  397. # [15:10] <beverloo> we have no exceptions on that code path (N.requestPermission)
  398. # [15:10] <annevk> beverloo: e.g. Notification.requestPermission("TEST") throws I think
  399. # [15:10] <annevk> beverloo: you haven't studied the full code path then ;-)
  400. # [15:11] <beverloo> ah, binding magic
  401. # [15:12] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-19as.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net) (Client Quit)
  402. # [15:14] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-9sn.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  403. # [15:15] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  404. # [15:24] <jgraham> Isn't the conversation that's currently playing out on whatwg@ exactly what Hixie complained about with the use of rejection for exceptional conditions?
  405. # [15:27] * Quits: dshwang (dshwang@nat/intel/x-yrqaiphwenkenocd) (Remote host closed the connection)
  406. # [15:35] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  407. # [15:36] <annevk> jgraham: don't think so
  408. # [15:37] <jgraham> annevk: OK, well I mailed the list so feel free to explain why I'm wrong
  409. # [15:37] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-69-203-128-218.si.res.rr.com)
  410. # [15:38] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203)
  411. # [15:38] <annevk> maybe later
  412. # [15:39] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3a-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  413. # [15:40] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@71-90-29-214.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com)
  414. # [15:42] <jgraham> Now I feel rejected :p
  415. # [15:47] * Quits: hemanth (~hemanth@122.178.240.55) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  416. # [15:49] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@78.33.155.138)
  417. # [15:51] <Domenic> annevk: FWIW I feel like it comes down to names, and "request" is ambiguous
  418. # [15:51] <Domenic> If it it was "getPermissionFromUser()" then I would say not getting permission is exceptional
  419. # [15:52] <Domenic> if it was "doesUserAllowCameraAccess()" then it would be clearly unexceptional
  420. # [15:52] <Domenic> but "requestPermission()" could go either way
  421. # [15:53] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@nata208.ugent.be)
  422. # [15:54] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  423. # [15:57] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Quit: BigBangUDR)
  424. # [16:01] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  425. # [16:03] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@metro29st13.m.subnet.rcn.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  426. # [16:06] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  427. # [16:09] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3a-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  428. # [16:10] * Joins: yoichio_ (yoichio@nat/google/x-auobrjnkstudfblj)
  429. # [16:12] * Quits: yoichio (yoichio@nat/google/x-tueuydvnqkiztjsu) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  430. # [16:12] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  431. # [16:12] * Quits: falken (falken@nat/google/x-irjmlifodtxjgzvi) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  432. # [16:13] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Quit: BigBangUDR)
  433. # [16:14] <Domenic> link to the bug on speccing animation frame tasks and tying CSS animations into all that?
  434. # [16:14] * Joins: falken (falken@nat/google/x-uemshhqidrromzqt)
  435. # [16:18] * Joins: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.178.240.55)
  436. # [16:21] * Joins: yoichio (yoichio@nat/google/x-lkgskulmpwrdjtkc)
  437. # [16:22] * Quits: falken (falken@nat/google/x-uemshhqidrromzqt) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  438. # [16:22] * Joins: falken (falken@nat/google/x-xthkvqadhinkzwqx)
  439. # [16:23] * Quits: yoichio_ (yoichio@nat/google/x-auobrjnkstudfblj) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  440. # [16:23] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa3a-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  441. # [16:26] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@162.217.73.171)
  442. # [16:27] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@162.217.73.171) (Client Quit)
  443. # [16:31] <gsnedders> jgraham, hsivonen: my gut says that the fragment parsing tests should probably be in a separate test file; thoughts?
  444. # [16:32] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  445. # [16:40] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:3518:ebc1:9594:a820)
  446. # [16:43] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  447. # [16:48] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  448. # [16:50] * Quits: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  449. # [16:52] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@78.33.155.138) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  450. # [16:53] * Joins: nicolasbadia___ (~nicolasba@ns3272321.ip-5-39-84.eu)
  451. # [16:53] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@94.116.39.4)
  452. # [16:54] * Quits: nicolasbadia (~nicolasba@hue38-1-78-209-78-103.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  453. # [16:55] * Joins: nicolasbadia (~nicolasba@hue38-1-78-209-78-103.fbx.proxad.net)
  454. # [16:57] * Quits: nicolasbadia___ (~nicolasba@ns3272321.ip-5-39-84.eu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  455. # [16:58] <annevk> Domenic: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26839 is the latest on animation frame tasks
  456. # [16:59] <annevk> Domenic: if you ignore the name, since whether we call it requestMoon() or getMoon() seems hardly relevant, what behavior do we want? What code do we want people to write?
  457. # [16:59] <annevk> jgraham: hah, just deferred
  458. # [16:59] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  459. # [17:01] * Joins: mpt_ (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  460. # [17:01] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.135.253)
  461. # [17:02] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  462. # [17:06] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-219.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  463. # [17:06] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  464. # [17:10] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  465. # [17:11] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  466. # [17:13] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.112)
  467. # [17:15] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-69-203-128-218.si.res.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  468. # [17:16] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.49)
  469. # [17:18] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@nata208.ugent.be) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  470. # [17:19] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  471. # [17:26] <annevk> JakeA: https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/412 ping
  472. # [17:30] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  473. # [17:30] <slightlyoff> looking
  474. # [17:31] <slightlyoff> JakeA is out (vacation) IIRC
  475. # [17:32] <annevk> slightlyoff: you're more than acceptable as stand-in :p
  476. # [17:33] * Joins: Smylers1 (~smylers@81.143.60.194)
  477. # [17:33] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@94.116.39.4) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  478. # [17:37] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@unaffiliated/maurice)
  479. # [17:42] <annevk> TabAtkins: I feel like you should talk to Domenic about how to sort that mismatch
  480. # [17:43] <annevk> TabAtkins: I agree with you that it makes a lot of sense to group all "failure", but then the async/await path really sucks
  481. # [17:44] * Joins: ShaneHudson (~ShaneHuds@eduD96C.kent.ac.uk)
  482. # [17:45] * Quits: jonr22 (~jonr22@gw.wordstream.com) (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
  483. # [17:48] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@102.99.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt)
  484. # [17:49] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@135-23-143-163.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
  485. # [17:52] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  486. # [17:53] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@135-23-143-163.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  487. # [17:56] * Joins: nicolasbadia__ (~nicolasba@hue38-1-78-209-78-103.fbx.proxad.net)
  488. # [17:56] * Quits: ShaneHudson (~ShaneHuds@eduD96C.kent.ac.uk) (Quit: Computer fell asleep.)
  489. # [17:56] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.135.253) (Quit: Die demokratieerhaltende Whistleblowerplattform Krautchan freut sich immer über Spenden.)
  490. # [17:56] * Quits: nicolasbadia (~nicolasba@hue38-1-78-209-78-103.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  491. # [17:56] * nicolasbadia__ is now known as nicolasbadia
  492. # [17:57] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-qejdqkcfhkvmvovj)
  493. # [17:57] * Joins: ap (~ap@17.202.44.214)
  494. # [17:58] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  495. # [18:00] <slightlyoff> I think that the described behaiour is fine, annevk
  496. # [18:00] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  497. # [18:00] <annevk> slightlyoff: and the new name?
  498. # [18:00] <slightlyoff> annevk: is the name change related to the value of Cache-Control? or of the option to fetch?
  499. # [18:00] <annevk> slightlyoff: fetch
  500. # [18:01] * Joins: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  501. # [18:01] <annevk> cache-control is not really affected in any way I hope
  502. # [18:01] <slightlyoff> I'd like it to not have a dash = )
  503. # [18:01] <slightlyoff> but otherwise I don't mind
  504. # [18:01] <slightlyoff> it seems fine. Defer to Horo-san on actual behavior, but this seems fine WRT our impl
  505. # [18:01] * mpt_ is now known as mpt
  506. # [18:03] * Joins: nicolasbadia__ (~nicolasba@ns3272321.ip-5-39-84.eu)
  507. # [18:03] * Quits: nicolasbadia (~nicolasba@hue38-1-78-209-78-103.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  508. # [18:03] * nicolasbadia__ is now known as nicolasbadia
  509. # [18:05] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.180.140.18)
  510. # [18:07] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  511. # [18:12] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  512. # [18:12] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@102.99.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  513. # [18:14] * Joins: yoichio_ (yoichio@nat/google/x-stvxwozhmsiufjzv)
  514. # [18:15] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-219.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Snuggling with the puppies)
  515. # [18:15] <Ms2ger> https://twitter.com/CDN_Antitheist/status/517252789680877568
  516. # [18:16] * Parts: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-qejdqkcfhkvmvovj)
  517. # [18:16] <annevk> Ms2ger: those replies lol
  518. # [18:16] * Joins: rillian_ (giles@mf4-xiph.osuosl.org)
  519. # [18:16] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  520. # [18:16] * Joins: k308de (~k308@k308.de)
  521. # [18:16] * Joins: mounir__ (~mounir@oldworld.fr)
  522. # [18:16] * Joins: jmb^ (~jmb@mail.parsifal.org.uk)
  523. # [18:17] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194)
  524. # [18:18] * Joins: hexburn3r_ (~FrlLaus@dumbinter.net)
  525. # [18:18] * Quits: k308 (~k308@k308.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  526. # [18:18] * Quits: yoichio (yoichio@nat/google/x-lkgskulmpwrdjtkc) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  527. # [18:18] * Quits: rillian (giles@mf4-xiph.osuosl.org) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  528. # [18:18] * Quits: Smylers1 (~smylers@81.143.60.194) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  529. # [18:18] * Quits: jmb (~jmb@mail.parsifal.org.uk) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  530. # [18:18] * Quits: mounir (~mounir@oldworld.fr) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  531. # [18:18] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  532. # [18:18] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.112) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  533. # [18:18] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  534. # [18:18] * Quits: hexburn3r (~FrlLaus@dumbinter.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  535. # [18:18] * Quits: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  536. # [18:19] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  537. # [18:19] * mounir__ is now known as mounir
  538. # [18:20] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.112)
  539. # [18:20] * Joins: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73)
  540. # [18:21] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.49) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  541. # [18:21] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  542. # [18:22] * Joins: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.239.49)
  543. # [18:22] * Quits: arpitab__ (uid10516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zjjxroumuulkvdaw) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  544. # [18:24] * Quits: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.178.240.55) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  545. # [18:26] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.202.45.163)
  546. # [18:26] * Quits: cbr_ (~cbr@83.150.36.145) (Quit: cbr_)
  547. # [18:27] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  548. # [18:29] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-68-173-119-185.nyc.res.rr.com)
  549. # [18:30] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  550. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> annevk: I agree that it sucks.
  551. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> annevk: Though we could always add a Promise.prototype method that shifts *some* rejects into fulfills, when they're tagged as "not fatal" or something.
  552. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> await geo.request().lessThrowing()
  553. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> Or something else like that, I dunno.
  554. # [18:32] <annevk> I guess Domenic's point is that it should be the other way around
  555. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> Maybe a different keyword, one that only rethrows "fatal" rejects, and one that throws all of them.
  556. # [18:32] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  557. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> annevk: Yeah, but his "other way around" is optimized for `await`, not promises. We can fix one of them, the other's frozen.
  558. # [18:38] * rillian_ is now known as rillian
  559. # [18:38] * Joins: Sample (~Sample@unaffiliated/sample)
  560. # [18:39] <annevk> I'm rather aligned personally with the return/throw analogy.
  561. # [18:40] <annevk> (And to be clear, a network error seems like something you'd throw for since that is exceptional. Normally that works.)
  562. # [18:42] <jgraham> Hmm, depends what you mean by "network error"
  563. # [18:43] <jgraham> I'm familiar with APIs that throw for socket errors, but less so with ones that would throw for e.g. a 500 HTTP response
  564. # [18:43] * Quits: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.239.49) (Remote host closed the connection)
  565. # [18:43] <annevk> jgraham: network error is defined in https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/
  566. # [18:43] <TabAtkins> annevk: I thought that fetch() fulfilled for failure responses.
  567. # [18:43] <annevk> TabAtkins: failure being?
  568. # [18:44] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  569. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> Hm, from a quick reading of the definition of "network error" in the spec, I'm not sure. It doesn't go into any detail about what sorts of things cause network errors.
  570. # [18:45] <annevk> Yeah, you need to read through the spec
  571. # [18:45] * Joins: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.239.49)
  572. # [18:45] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:80fb:224:7e7a:91ff:fe25:a5a3)
  573. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> UGH WHY IS IT SO HARD
  574. # [18:45] <annevk> But typical scenarios include the network failing, CORS failing, infinite redirects
  575. # [18:45] <annevk> HTTP 500 is not a network error
  576. # [18:46] <annevk> The network is fine, it's the server that's not
  577. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> Ah, kk
  578. # [18:46] <jgraham> Really? https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#cors-preflight-fetch-0 sounds like it is, but I might be missing something
  579. # [18:49] <annevk> jgraham: that would be CORS failing
  580. # [18:49] <annevk> jgraham: CORS is a protocol layered on top, but any failures have to be masked as network failures for security
  581. # [18:49] <jgraham> Oh I see
  582. # [18:54] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@mtl93-18-78-208-93-24.fbx.proxad.net)
  583. # [18:56] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  584. # [18:56] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@mtl93-18-78-208-93-24.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  585. # [18:57] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@46-239-239-203.tal.is) (Quit: barnabywalters)
  586. # [18:57] * Quits: tommyliu_ (~tommyliu@121.15.56.113) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  587. # [18:58] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.78.98)
  588. # [19:12] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@38.88.11.131)
  589. # [19:12] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@38.88.11.131) (Changing host)
  590. # [19:12] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  591. # [19:16] * Quits: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  592. # [19:17] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@115.247.208.40)
  593. # [19:18] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@115.247.208.40) (Client Quit)
  594. # [19:26] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-68-173-119-185.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  595. # [19:26] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  596. # [19:40] * Quits: nicolasbadia (~nicolasba@ns3272321.ip-5-39-84.eu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  597. # [19:44] * Joins: nicolasbadia__ (~nicolasba@hue38-1-78-209-78-103.fbx.proxad.net)
  598. # [19:46] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@LMontsouris-656-01-02-84.w80-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  599. # [19:50] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-68-173-119-185.nyc.res.rr.com)
  600. # [19:50] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@50.0.192.112) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  601. # [19:53] * Quits: benjamingr (uid23465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxvpycwprxscswui) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  602. # [19:56] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@wsip-24-249-210-3.ri.ri.cox.net)
  603. # [19:57] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  604. # [19:58] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.29.214)
  605. # [20:00] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  606. # [20:07] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@17.245.27.178)
  607. # [20:10] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@115.247.208.40)
  608. # [20:12] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  609. # [20:12] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  610. # [20:15] * Joins: zcorpan_ (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  611. # [20:15] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@115.247.208.40) (Quit: BigBangUDR)
  612. # [20:16] * Quits: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  613. # [20:16] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  614. # [20:18] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@2607:fb90:508:5884:17e0:ded4:75a5:7580) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  615. # [20:20] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  616. # [20:20] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  617. # [20:21] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@17.245.27.178) (Quit: dydx)
  618. # [20:27] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  619. # [20:29] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@AMontsouris-158-1-27-243.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  620. # [20:31] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  621. # [20:32] * Joins: dmurph (sid42525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nntozyyquukobaxk)
  622. # [20:35] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:80fb:224:7e7a:91ff:fe25:a5a3) (Quit: back in a bit, out for lunch with some friends)
  623. # [20:36] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  624. # [20:38] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host86-159-64-71.range86-159.btcentralplus.com)
  625. # [20:38] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  626. # [20:40] * Quits: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ullsoqanpdzwpojh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  627. # [20:40] * Quits: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-feqifrzpxudwpnqv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  628. # [20:40] * Quits: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnqzxrijhhbgxnco) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  629. # [20:40] * Quits: elijah (sid21431@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-piwzpbtrqdleipfg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  630. # [20:40] * Quits: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ptlpcezvxwoaknps) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  631. # [20:41] * Quits: Garbee (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kwzfilpxmcsqbsnm) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  632. # [20:41] * Quits: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fjflwmqrdedrmsva) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  633. # [20:41] * Quits: parshap (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zjctmundalfdciyh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  634. # [20:42] * Quits: dmurph (sid42525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nntozyyquukobaxk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  635. # [20:42] * Quits: ojan (sid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-npsujochzmuxojlo) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  636. # [20:42] * Joins: elijah (sid21431@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ankpwutuzqacqpix)
  637. # [20:42] * Joins: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjxtthadjwtxztir)
  638. # [20:42] * Joins: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hjaplpwfqccqzwhq)
  639. # [20:43] * Joins: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-joiofzawcsmwdxrv)
  640. # [20:43] * Joins: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arvddffchcnufgah)
  641. # [20:44] * Joins: Garbee (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-loglkjatsafjwhgn)
  642. # [20:44] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@5.153.234.98) (Quit: Leaving.)
  643. # [20:44] * Joins: ojan (sid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujhekupmvblmgoog)
  644. # [20:44] * Joins: parshap (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uivekozheotgucla)
  645. # [20:44] * Joins: dmurph (sid42525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eixqhmqwbvwmtrca)
  646. # [20:47] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  647. # [20:48] <Hixie> so i'm working on replacing the in-spec feature boxes with just importing the caniuse data
  648. # [20:48] <Hixie> anyone have any opinions on this?
  649. # [20:48] <Hixie> e.g. should I just look at the state of the latest version?
  650. # [20:48] <Hixie> most widely used version?
  651. # [20:48] <Hixie> any version?
  652. # [20:48] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@185.3.135.42)
  653. # [20:48] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@mtl93-18-78-208-93-24.fbx.proxad.net)
  654. # [20:49] <Hixie> (version of a browser, i mean)
  655. # [20:49] <Hixie> i'm leaning towards "latest"
  656. # [20:49] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.29.214) (Quit: weinig)
  657. # [20:49] <Ms2ger> Latest
  658. # [20:49] <Hixie> k
  659. # [20:50] <Hixie> i'm thinking that i should get the N most popular browsers, probably N=5 since we have 5 icons right now in the box, and then i just show the icons of the the subset of those browsers that support the feature
  660. # [20:51] <Hixie> instead of the current hidden icon / shown icon thing
  661. # [20:51] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@2620:101:80fb:224:dd4:dea5:7884:8384)
  662. # [20:53] * Joins: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adjuofcwpucfsmjd)
  663. # [20:56] * Quits: Phae (sid455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pdkvjomxyezdhhuk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  664. # [20:56] * Quits: daleharvey (sid513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eymtjjuzojhhoiiq) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  665. # [20:56] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.78.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  666. # [20:56] * Quits: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjxtthadjwtxztir) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  667. # [20:56] * Quits: birtles (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aljgkfaogqcfcegi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  668. # [20:56] * Quits: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hjaplpwfqccqzwhq) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  669. # [20:56] * Joins: birtles (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozwcpljbsnpeqxcy)
  670. # [20:57] * Quits: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vztbfotkdnnqdjba) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  671. # [20:57] * Quits: Amaan (uid4967@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-osvlampigqruiekz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  672. # [20:57] * Joins: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.78.98)
  673. # [20:57] * Quits: mvujovic___ (sid13458@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-giyrxwhaprfbnmcw) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  674. # [20:57] * Quits: mrbkap (~mrbkap@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (Quit: be back soon)
  675. # [20:57] * Quits: cabanier (sid15093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-auxlhvssxsopnjmj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  676. # [20:57] * Quits: timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  677. # [20:57] * Quits: jamesr__ (sid10481@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vrsfzvmuykuypwdn) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  678. # [20:58] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@185.3.135.42) (Quit: Leaving.)
  679. # [20:58] * Quits: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adjuofcwpucfsmjd) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  680. # [20:58] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@185.3.135.42)
  681. # [20:58] * Joins: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ufbpcwwjhotkubwa)
  682. # [20:58] * Joins: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzrqqjisvlankcre)
  683. # [20:58] * Joins: Amaan (uid4967@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ugemehtkwoylyqus)
  684. # [20:58] * Joins: rikc (sid15093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ennmbpqmtyiwmuwg)
  685. # [20:58] * Joins: mvujovic___ (sid13458@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-trdoctbrlxhfdlaj)
  686. # [20:59] * Joins: daleharvey (sid513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mwmogtkejuexvdjk)
  687. # [20:59] * Joins: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-swngocjwgoxcectg)
  688. # [20:59] * Joins: Phae (sid455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttnnjswepnkgxgko)
  689. # [20:59] * Joins: jamesr__ (sid10481@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qzyngknlmklbonde)
  690. # [21:01] * Joins: timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless)
  691. # [21:04] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.29.214)
  692. # [21:05] * Quits: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.239.49) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  693. # [21:05] * Joins: Mso150_g (~ctlM@80.83.239.116)
  694. # [21:07] <annevk> Loving unimpressed marcosc
  695. # [21:07] <annevk> Hixie: while you do that, can you consider a change in styling that makes them floats and uses the sidebar for text rather than mostly whitespace?
  696. # [21:08] <annevk> Hixie: in particular on devices with smaller screens, it feels a bit like a waste
  697. # [21:08] <annevk> Hixie: I might fork the style sheet (or override) for a while to do something else on other specs
  698. # [21:09] <Hixie> how do you mean?
  699. # [21:09] <Hixie> the margin's roughly the same on both sides, no?
  700. # [21:09] <annevk> Hixie: I think what you should show is since when the feature is supported on a per browser basis
  701. # [21:09] <annevk> Hixie: no, there's an 8em left margin
  702. # [21:09] <annevk> Hixie: very clear in e.g. https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#acknowledgments
  703. # [21:10] <annevk> Hixie: outside of HTML that margin is only used for that black arrow
  704. # [21:10] <Hixie> oh, i see, there's a max-width and i happen to have a monitor wide enough that it gives a margin on both sides
  705. # [21:11] <Hixie> i guess we could move the margin to the right, but that doesn't seem like it'd help much...
  706. # [21:11] * Joins: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-irywkymftolwcchl)
  707. # [21:11] <Hixie> floats don't work very well so i'm reluctant to use those
  708. # [21:11] <annevk> no shifting the margin is not good :-)
  709. # [21:11] <Hixie> and floats don't let you pin the box to the top of the screen
  710. # [21:12] <annevk> hmm true
  711. # [21:12] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@17.245.27.178)
  712. # [21:12] * Quits: Bobby (~textual@38.88.227.110) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  713. # [21:12] <Hixie> if you want i can point the spec to a style sheet you control so you can play with it and see if you can come up with something that works but is better
  714. # [21:12] <annevk> Hixie: do you care to maintain the style sheet for non-HTML specs as well? perhaps the boxes layout can be opt-in?
  715. # [21:13] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  716. # [21:13] <Hixie> imho we should keep all the specs consistent
  717. # [21:13] <Hixie> ideally, we'd have all the specs have this caniuse data
  718. # [21:13] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@17.245.27.178) (Client Quit)
  719. # [21:13] <annevk> Hixie: that sounds great to me, can you write the software more generically this time? :-)
  720. # [21:13] <Hixie> though since i'm baking it in at spec generation time to make the html spec load faster, it's not something you'll get for free
  721. # [21:14] <Hixie> the html spec generator is pretty generic, i think?
  722. # [21:14] <annevk> is that public now? sorry I haven't been paying attention much
  723. # [21:14] <annevk> I'm happy to do work to make this work in other specs, either through a <script> or some pre-processing
  724. # [21:15] <Hixie> what generator do you use these days, anolis?
  725. # [21:15] <annevk> Hixie: you could put shared resources in https://github.com/whatwg/resources.whatwg.org/ and they will end up on https://resources.whatwg.org/
  726. # [21:15] <annevk> Hixie: there's a commit hook that automates that process
  727. # [21:15] <annevk> Hixie: I still use Anolis, have some hopes of switching to Bikeshed
  728. # [21:15] * Quits: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-68-173-119-185.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: arunranga)
  729. # [21:16] <Hixie> you could lobby tab to add caniuse logic to bikeshed
  730. # [21:16] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.29.214) (Quit: weinig)
  731. # [21:17] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  732. # [21:18] <annevk> but yeah, as I mentioned earlier today I'd be interested in having less whitespace on small screens
  733. # [21:18] <annevk> perhaps we can use floats there and not do the top align thing
  734. # [21:18] <annevk> and introduce actual content earlier, perhaps by floating the ToC
  735. # [21:19] <Hixie> how about i point the spec to https://resources.whatwg.org/experiment.css (as an additional style sheet) and you can see if you can come up with something nice that replaces what we have now
  736. # [21:20] <annevk> sounds interesting, let's try it
  737. # [21:21] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  738. # [21:21] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  739. # [21:22] <annevk> biab
  740. # [21:24] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.245.29.214)
  741. # [21:26] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  742. # [21:27] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  743. # [21:27] <Hixie> annevk: (done)
  744. # [21:28] * Quits: zcorpan_ (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  745. # [21:28] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  746. # [21:29] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  747. # [21:29] * Joins: anchnk (~anchnk@static-176-182-137-176.ncc.abo.bbox.fr)
  748. # [21:30] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Read error: No route to host)
  749. # [21:30] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  750. # [21:31] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (Quit: sys.exit(0) # computer went to sleep)
  751. # [21:35] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  752. # [21:38] * Quits: foolip (~philip@37.139.17.34) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  753. # [21:39] * Joins: foolip (~philip@37.139.17.34)
  754. # [21:39] * Quits: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  755. # [21:42] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  756. # [21:45] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@2607:fb90:2203:40fe:b4fa:59ef:b730:d68b)
  757. # [21:48] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@2607:fb90:2203:40fe:b4fa:59ef:b730:d68b) (Remote host closed the connection)
  758. # [21:49] * Joins: tj_vantoll1 (~Adium@c-98-250-130-237.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
  759. # [21:52] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:2ec:f8d9:eace:d8bd:1281) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  760. # [21:55] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  761. # [21:57] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:3518:ebc1:9594:a820) (Remote host closed the connection)
  762. # [21:58] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  763. # [22:01] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:3518:ebc1:9594:a820)
  764. # [22:01] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  765. # [22:02] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  766. # [22:06] * Quits: tj_vantoll1 (~Adium@c-98-250-130-237.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  767. # [22:08] * Quits: mathiasbynens (sid2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-edfecodbfzaeuetj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  768. # [22:09] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  769. # [22:10] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@2607:fb90:2203:40fe:b4fa:59ef:b730:d68b)
  770. # [22:10] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@2607:fb90:2203:40fe:b4fa:59ef:b730:d68b) (Remote host closed the connection)
  771. # [22:10] <zcorpan> Hixie: latest is sometimes "unknown" on caniuse i think. while current version might be "no". but maybe that is ok
  772. # [22:11] <Hixie> i'll skip past unknowns if i have a previous known value
  773. # [22:11] * Joins: mathiasbynens (sid2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cravlonodmzcawgf)
  774. # [22:15] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@wsip-24-249-210-3.ri.ri.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  775. # [22:16] * Joins: ericandrewlewis (uid32062@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fkcyfezturkppuai)
  776. # [22:17] * Quits: Somatt_wrk_ (~somattwrk@130.193.24.135) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  777. # [22:17] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@130.193.24.135)
  778. # [22:18] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@wsip-24-249-210-3.ri.ri.cox.net)
  779. # [22:20] <Hixie> interesting
  780. # [22:20] <Hixie> according to the caniuse.com data, iOS Safari and Android Chrome both have 6.09% usage share
  781. # [22:20] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:80fb:224:7e7a:91ff:fe25:a5a3)
  782. # [22:22] * Quits: Mso150_g (~ctlM@80.83.239.116) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  783. # [22:24] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@wsip-24-249-210-3.ri.ri.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  784. # [22:25] * Quits: anchnk (~anchnk@static-176-182-137-176.ncc.abo.bbox.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
  785. # [22:26] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.180.140.18) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  786. # [22:26] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  787. # [22:28] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  788. # [22:31] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  789. # [22:33] * Joins: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon)
  790. # [22:34] * Joins: fila (~filaf@46.99.25.192)
  791. # [22:36] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  792. # [22:36] * Quits: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  793. # [22:36] * Quits: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  794. # [22:36] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  795. # [22:37] * Joins: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  796. # [22:38] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: Bye)
  797. # [22:38] * Joins: gavin__ (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
  798. # [22:40] * Quits: gavin__ (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (Client Quit)
  799. # [22:40] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  800. # [22:41] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.180.140.18)
  801. # [22:48] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  802. # [22:49] * Quits: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  803. # [22:52] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  804. # [22:53] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  805. # [22:53] * Quits: tommyliu (~tommyliu@121.15.78.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  806. # [22:59] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@mtl93-18-78-208-93-24.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  807. # [22:59] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  808. # [23:01] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host86-159-64-71.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  809. # [23:02] * Joins: kbrosnan (~kbrosnan@firefox/community/qa/kbrosnan)
  810. # [23:03] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.245.29.214) (Quit: weinig)
  811. # [23:08] <annevk> Hixie: zcorpan: I would expect us to list the earliest known browser for a given feature
  812. # [23:09] <annevk> Hixie: zcorpan: e.g. IE7+ or some such for XMLHttpRequest
  813. # [23:09] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  814. # [23:10] <Hixie> when you say "list"
  815. # [23:10] <Hixie> how do you envisage this being shown?
  816. # [23:10] <Hixie> i mean i was just imagining showing an icon, like now
  817. # [23:11] <Hixie> just... more accurate
  818. # [23:12] <annevk> Hixie: no text?
  819. # [23:12] <annevk> Hixie: I can imagine that if people see IE / Safari supporting it, they wonder which version it is
  820. # [23:12] <Hixie> i'm more or less open to anything, if you have a concrete suggestion :-)
  821. # [23:13] <annevk> [browsericon][versions
  822. # [23:13] <annevk> ]
  823. # [23:13] <annevk> or some such
  824. # [23:14] <annevk> Support in: [FF]22+ [C/O]30+ [IE]11 [S]7
  825. # [23:15] <Hixie> like, stacked vertically?
  826. # [23:15] <Hixie> here, the style sheet is in now
  827. # [23:15] <Hixie> make me a mockup :-)
  828. # [23:18] <annevk> Hixie: example of a feature that has this?
  829. # [23:18] <annevk> I picked DOMStringMap, no luck
  830. # [23:19] <Hixie> has what?
  831. # [23:19] <annevk> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/dom.html#the-id-attribute seems fine
  832. # [23:19] <annevk> Hixie: I just thought that if you're going to use the caniuse data, apart from the browsers that supports it, you might also want to mention from which version they support it, if that information is there
  833. # [23:20] <Hixie> i'm happy to do so if you have a suggestion for what it should look like
  834. # [23:20] <Hixie> i'm writing the code to get that data
  835. # [23:20] <Hixie> i'll put it in the markup
  836. # [23:20] <Hixie> and your style sheet will show it
  837. # [23:20] <Hixie> :-)
  838. # [23:20] <Hixie> (for now, fake it with generated content)
  839. # [23:21] * Joins: mrbkap (~mrbkap@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
  840. # [23:23] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host86-159-64-71.range86-159.btcentralplus.com)
  841. # [23:24] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/community/urispec/participants o_O
  842. # [23:24] <annevk> Oh, the only email so far is the one that got me there: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-urispec/2014Oct/0000.html
  843. # [23:24] <annevk> So I guess that means it's a no-op
  844. # [23:25] <wilhelm> Wat.
  845. # [23:25] <annevk> Hixie: can you tell me what you plan on changing markup-wise and what remains the same?
  846. # [23:26] <annevk> Hixie: I can't do it tonight, but will give this a shot tomorrow, should be fun to do some tweaking
  847. # [23:26] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@185.3.135.42) (Quit: Leaving.)
  848. # [23:26] <Hixie> annevk: i've no plans yet
  849. # [23:26] <Hixie> annevk: assume it'll be identical until further notice
  850. # [23:27] <Hixie> if you do nothing, it'll be identical cos that way i won't have to touch the style sheet :-)
  851. # [23:27] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@unaffiliated/maurice)
  852. # [23:28] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  853. # [23:30] * Joins: espadrine` (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-27-243.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  854. # [23:35] * Joins: newtron_ (~newtron@199.71.174.204)
  855. # [23:35] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman) (Quit: Leaving.)
  856. # [23:38] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  857. # [23:39] * Quits: newtron_ (~newtron@199.71.174.204) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  858. # [23:50] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@mtl93-18-78-208-93-24.fbx.proxad.net)
  859. # [23:51] * Quits: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lkszaudzwudnjomw) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  860. # [23:55] * Joins: krit_ (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdkxfflstjullona)
  861. # [23:59] * Quits: astearns (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uiwwrheybyhalvnc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  862. # Session Close: Thu Oct 02 00:00:01 2014

The end :)