/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-02-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 11 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  11. # [00:21] <JonathanNeal> In today’s world of browsers and machines, does it improve performance to cache deep objects like toString = Object.prototype.toString?
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  14. # [00:23] <gsnedders> JonathanNeal: in cold code? yes; in hot code? you're saving *at most* one class check per access
  15. # [00:24] <gsnedders> (of course in cold code you shouldn't care about the performance!)
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  17. # [00:26] <JonathanNeal> gsnedders: Interesting. I still see this pattern in new scripts (and to be clear and narrow I’m referring to caching only for the sake of shortening the lookup). So, should we drop it? Did it once have significant impact on performance in old IE or something?
  18. # [00:27] <gsnedders> JonathanNeal: it did everywhere in the days before JITs
  19. # [00:28] <gsnedders> you might see a small performance increase in really tight loops, but by the time you're doing toString.call you've probably lost
  20. # [00:28] <gsnedders> But benchmark and don't take my word for it, etc.
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  22. # [00:29] <JonathanNeal> I’ve been looking for existing benchmarks. Are there some keywords I haven’t used that might help me in my search?
  23. # [00:29] <gsnedders> I dunno!
  24. # [00:30] <Domenic> You should be benchmarking a larger app anyway
  25. # [00:30] <Domenic> Your code will be cold or hot only depending on the context of the app it's running in
  26. # [00:30] <gsnedders> And quite possibly inlined into it
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  28. # [00:35] <JonathanNeal> Thanks gsnedders, Domenic. In our polyfill project, there’s a small discussion happening as to whether we should drop local variables that cache deep properties. I can’t find an existing benchmark, so I’ll just recommend we keep the local variables and test to see if we can drop them.
  29. # [00:36] <MikeSmith> does anybody know, when you do a multipart/formdata file upload in a browser running under Windows, it seems like it sets a Content-Type based on the file extension
  30. # [00:36] <Domenic> Or you could actually benchmark your own code instead of looking for a benchmark of someone else' code
  31. # [00:36] <JonathanNeal> Domenic: That’s what I thought I just said. Sorry if I miscommunicated.
  32. # [00:37] <Domenic> hmm ok
  33. # [00:37] <Domenic> sorry then
  34. # [00:37] <JonathanNeal> I did miscommunicate. I meant, s/test/test our library ourselves
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  48. # [01:49] <JonathanNeal> Is there any talk on allowing Elements https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#elements to apply to more than query/queryAll?
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  109. # [03:34] <karlcow> o_O https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2015JanMar/0585.html
  110. # [03:36] <karlcow> same person? https://twitter.com/marcfawzi/with_replies
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  201. # [07:25] <MikeSmith> karlcow: that's actually a natural-language chatter bot somebody wrote that seems to have gotten out of hand
  202. # [07:25] <MikeSmith> karlcow: the clue is that his name is an anagram of the French word for "wingnut"
  203. # [07:28] <karlcow> pfew… I had doubts.
  204. # [07:28] <karlcow> ;)
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  249. # [09:23] <annevk> Oh look, moving DOM attributes to prototypes is back for another round on blink-dev
  250. # [09:23] <annevk> Please place your bets now
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  253. # [09:36] <MikeSmith> haha
  254. # [09:38] <MikeSmith> I'll take any bet against that at 40-1
  255. # [09:40] <MikeSmith> 5 years from now we'll still be waiting on that to happen
  256. # [09:42] <annevk> http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/35475527654/theyll-remove-h-264-support-any-moment-now
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  258. # [09:42] <annevk> Bit more hopeful that it sticks though, provided the perf claims are true this time around
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  262. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> yeah I'm just trolling
  263. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> I'm actually optimitistic too
  264. # [09:56] <MikeSmith> I know haraken's put a ton of work into trying to make it happen
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  275. # [10:29] <annevk> I wish GitHub had an option to ignore a thread until you're mentioned again
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  277. # [10:30] <annevk> Sometimes people pull me in to ask something but then the thread goes on after for a long time without needing any input from me
  278. # [10:30] <annevk> I guess I'm just going to unsubscribe in those cases and require out-of-band contact
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  295. # [11:22] <jgraham> darobin: Was there one of those "file a bug on this spec" implementations that's trivial to drop into ReSpec specs?
  296. # [11:25] <darobin> jgraham: you mean a script that, say, takes your selection and uses that to fill out the bug?
  297. # [11:26] <darobin> or just generating a link to the bug tracker?
  298. # [11:27] <jgraham> darobin: More like the former. Something that allows me to somehow file a bug saying "this part of the spec sucks" where it is obvious what "this" is, without leaving the spec
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  300. # [11:29] <darobin> jgraham: no, ReSpec deliberately stops at generation and does not take care of adding interactivity down the line
  301. # [11:29] <darobin> jgraham: but if this is for a bugzilla tracker there's a script you can use, not great but sort of operational
  302. # [11:30] <jgraham> "Not great but sort of operational" sounds better than "not". Which is what we currently have.
  303. # [11:30] <darobin> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/js/bug-assist.js
  304. # [11:30] <jgraham> darobin: Thanks!
  305. # [11:31] <darobin> it will take selected text into account, but it won't report stuff like scrolling offset if the user just clicks the button without selection
  306. # [11:31] <darobin> a pleasure
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  325. # [12:20] <annevk> JakeA: I don't really think it's desirable to expose HTTP push directly
  326. # [12:21] <annevk> JakeA: it's rather nice that it's transparent to the application what protocol is in use
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  329. # [12:22] <JakeA> annevk: I had a half-baked idea of response.push containing an array of {request, response}. But I agree I don't think it's particularly important
  330. # [12:23] <annevk> I would imagine you'd get a distinct pushfetch event or some such
  331. # [12:23] <annevk> But it seems a bit like a hack to expose network protocol details in that manner
  332. # [12:24] <annevk> Because what you'll get is exactly what he proposes, that applications become dependent on the protocol
  333. # [12:24] <JakeA> yeah, also I really don't know enough about http/2 to make a decent call here. I'm not even sure if pushed resources are part of a specific response or part of the general stream
  334. # [12:25] <JakeA> agreed
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  356. # [13:21] <annevk> "Your message to Unbearable awaits moderator approval" IETF lists suck so much
  357. # [13:22] <annevk> (same for the WHATWG list, but at least it's just a onetime affair)
  358. # [13:25] <annevk> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-balfanz-https-token-binding-00#section-3.4 is funny. "an XML HTTP request", "the XmlHttpRequest object", "the XmlHttpRequest", "web origin", ... oh my
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  415. # [15:25] <JonathanNeal> After watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRYN2xt11Ek I have been wondering if there’s a place for their Event Model in native JS so I’ve thrown this very rough demo together: http://sandbox.thewikies.com/EventObserver/
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  417. # [15:27] <annevk> JonathanNeal: comes up every now and then within TC39
  418. # [15:27] <annevk> JonathanNeal: I stopped working on https://gist.github.com/annevk/5238964 when I learned that, but I don't think much progress has been made
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  420. # [15:29] <JonathanNeal> Yea, I like that.
  421. # [15:45] <JonathanNeal> I wanted to use the name `then` instead of `forEach`, but in Promises you never fire the onFulfilled method multiple times, right?
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  423. # [15:47] <annevk> JonathanNeal: right, a promise either returns a value or throws, similar to a function
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  462. # [17:14] <JonathanNeal> annevk: how could I bring this to folks-that-know-how-to-pitch-ideas attention?
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  468. # [17:28] <annevk> JonathanNeal: I'm not sure what you mean
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  499. # [18:12] <Domenic> annevk: I think Unsubscribe does that actually. Unsubscribe is not "Ignore"
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  508. # [18:24] <benjamingr> Domenic: I'm in a meeting about DOM web components and other web standards stuff - do I send anyone from google or another place pics?
  509. # [18:24] <Domenic> benjamingr: I don't really understand? Why would anyone want pictures of your meeting?
  510. # [18:26] <benjamingr> Haha, don't know - it's not my meeting at all. I just got invited and there are 200 people here. Google and other companies has this thing where it likes meetings and stuff so I wanted to know if anyone would care.
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  513. # [18:37] <rafaelrinaldi> benjamingr take a selfie of you doing a gang sign on stage and send us
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  519. # [18:50] <benjamingr> Hah sure
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  537. # [19:18] <annevk> Domenic: oh okay
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  545. # [19:35] <wanderview> is SharedArrayBuffer a spec'd thing?
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  563. # [20:09] <annevk> wanderview: oh is that out?
  564. # [20:09] <annevk> wanderview: in December it seemed like it was mostly lth's idea
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  569. # [20:21] <wanderview> annevk: I was told in #jsapi that its not out yet
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  571. # [20:28] <Domenic> wanderview: I don't know if this is related but it's the arraybuffer technology I'm most excited about: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/ArrayBuffer/transfer
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  574. # [20:38] <JonathanNeal> I’m trying to formalize an idea of EventObservers http://sandbox.thewikies.com/EventObserver/ What would be the place to pitch this? DOM mailing list?
  575. # [20:39] <caitp-> which one
  576. # [20:39] <botie> i think which one is correct?
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  580. # [21:02] <smaug____> JonathanNeal: I guess dom mailing list
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  582. # [21:03] <JonathanNeal> smaug____: thanks!
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  626. # [22:19] <annevk> Domenic: SharedArrayBuffer is shared memory
  627. # [22:19] <annevk> Domenic: it's much more exciting and also much more scary
  628. # [22:20] <Domenic> @_@
  629. # [22:20] <caitp-> shmemory
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  638. # [22:33] <wanderview> annevk: Domenic: yea, but kind of cool we can use the ideas in this issue to share the buffers from a pipe with another worker for processing, etc: https://github.com/whatwg/streams/issues/253
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