/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-09-10 / end

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# Session Start: Thu Sep 10 00:00:00 2015
# Session Ident: #whatwg
# [00:00] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: about namespaceHTMLElements=False, in that bug he makes it sound like it's sorta obvious how to do it. but I don't see where it's exposed
# [00:00] <MikeSmith> I guess I need to read the docs more
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# [00:01] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: gimme a few mins
# [00:01] <MikeSmith> that guy is somewhat Ms2ger/annevk-ish with regard to the brevity and enigmatic nature of some of his responses
# [00:01] <MikeSmith> hai
# [00:01] <gsnedders> oh, he's like that IRL too :)
# [00:02] <MikeSmith> ah you met him
# [00:02] <MikeSmith> would be nice to meet him some time. I guess he's in Germany somewhere?
# [00:05] * MikeSmith suspects that Domenic is thinking about re-writing one of Hixie's perl scripts in python, hands him a box of tissue in preparation for the tears he's going to need to spend time wiping away
# [00:05] <Domenic> yepppp
# [00:06] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: yeah, forget where
# [00:06] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: often at EuroPython
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# [00:09] <MikeSmith> y'all #whatwg python mavens make me want to be a better python hacker. I actually really like writing in python more than any other language, but I do very little of it
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# [00:30] <TabAtkins> libxml2 is *not* installed by default. >_<
# [00:30] <TabAtkins> But anyone willing to install Bikeshed has it. ^_^
# [00:31] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: Like `doc = html5lib.parse(text, treebuilder='lxml', namespaceHTMLElements=False)`
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# [00:32] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: I mean lxml interface to it
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# [00:32] <TabAtkins> Oh, dunno how html5lib invokes the lxml parser.
# [00:32] <MikeSmith> http://lxml.de/html5parser.html
# [00:33] <MikeSmith> yeah I know how (I even made a PR to patch the lxml sources) but I just don't see where it exposes it
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# [00:36] * MikeSmith resorts to re-reading teh sources
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# [01:18] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: ↓
# [01:18] <MikeSmith> $ cat test.py
# [01:18] <MikeSmith> from lxml.html import html5parser, tostring
# [01:18] <MikeSmith> parser = html5parser.HTMLParser(namespaceHTMLElements=False)
# [01:18] <MikeSmith> print tostring(html5parser.fromstring("<html>", parser))
# [01:18] <MikeSmith> $ python test.py
# [01:18] <MikeSmith> <html:html xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><html:head></html:head><html:body></html:body></html:html>
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# [01:39] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: hmm, okay, maybe not
# [01:40] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: that should work, I thought?
# [01:40] <gsnedders> and it looks like it should work
# [01:40] <gsnedders> given **kwargs are passed through
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# [01:45] <Krinkle> Is there a simple and reliable way to defer code execution until after window-onload if you don't know whether that event has happened already?
# [01:46] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: I'd think that would work, yeah. Confusing.
# [01:46] <Krinkle> I can't for the life of me figure it out, short of polling performance.timing.loadEventEnd
# [01:46] <TabAtkins> Krinkle: In the ideal future, we'll have a .ready() promise on document that reflects the onload event.
# [01:47] <TabAtkins> This is why events are not the correct abstraction for single-occurence things.
# [01:47] <Krinkle> yeah
# [01:47] <Krinkle> I want jQuery document.ready for window.onload
# [01:47] <Krinkle> basically
# [01:49] <Krinkle> I would settle for a simple way to know whether it's "safe" to add an event listener to window.onload (e.g. has it already started), and then know to either schedule or inoke callback now
# [01:51] <Krinkle> I just realised today that a fair number of Navigation Timing metrics werent' being delivered from browser clients using Wikipedia because the event logging code used window.onload
# [01:51] <Krinkle> which sometimes had already happened :facepalm:
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# [02:01] <TabAtkins> Domenic: Any progress on document.ready promise?
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# [02:37] <Domenic> TabAtkins: open an issue on html so we don't forget? Should be easy now that we can edit the spec, just need to line up a few implementers.
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# [03:38] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: yeah there seems to be a bug in html5lib that's causing it to ignore namespaceHTMLElements=False
# [03:41] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: tossing a sys.stderr.write("namespaceHTMLElements is %s \n" % str(namespaceHTMLElements)) into the HTMLParser constructor I see:
# [03:42] <MikeSmith> namespaceHTMLElements is True
# [03:42] <MikeSmith> namespaceHTMLElements is False
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# [03:45] <MikeSmith> and if I change the signature of the constructor to have namespaceHTMLElements=False instead of True, then it does work as expected (that is, html element goes into void namespace, and I finally get un-namespaced output when I serialize)
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# [04:05] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: huh?
# [04:05] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: minimal TC with just html5lib and no lxml, plz?
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# [05:00] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: Hai
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# [05:07] <annevk> Domenic: I updated the ruby parser commit and updated the commit message too
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# [05:19] <annevk> Heh, whatwg/html is already more popular than whatwg/fetch
# [05:19] <annevk> whatwg/streams is still miles ahead though
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# [05:52] <gsnedders> hmm, there's no way to use idlharness.js to check document.all, because of the typeof checks
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# [06:41] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: you sure?
# [06:41] <MikeSmith> ah document.all
# [06:45] * annevk wonders how familiar jgraham is with Fetch and how well he remembers his navigate adventures
# [06:49] <annevk> MikeSmith: I'm a bit hesitant to update my local https://github.com/whatwg/html-build copy as it's unclear from the README.md how to preserve my local whatwg/html copy
# [06:49] <annevk> MikeSmith: shall I file an issue?
# [06:51] <MikeSmith> yeah
# [06:51] <MikeSmith> it's not going to overwrite your existing repo though
# [06:52] <MikeSmith> the only time it tries to clone the repo is if it doesn't find any existing one
# [06:52] <annevk> MikeSmith: does it look for ../html?
# [06:52] <MikeSmith> yeah
# [06:52] <MikeSmith> only that
# [06:52] <annevk> okay, so I guess I'm good then
# [06:52] <MikeSmith> yes I think so
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# [06:53] <annevk> ah, I do need to clean up old files somehow
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# [06:54] <MikeSmith> also fwiw if it makes a clone it only ever clones it into a subdirectory of the directory the build.sh script is in; that is, into your html-build dir
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# [06:55] <annevk> Hmm, I wonder why git reset --hard doesn't remove all the local files that are now supposed to be elsewhere
# [06:56] <annevk> Isn't that the way to get rid of all kinds of uncommitted resources and such?
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# [06:57] <annevk> Ah, git clean -fd
# [06:58] <annevk> "OK, looked in the /Users/annevk/GH/html directory and found HTML source there..."
# [06:58] <annevk> Going well so far
# [06:59] <annevk> MikeSmith: <3 those messages
# [06:59] <MikeSmith> heh
# [06:59] <MikeSmith> a little human touch there
# [06:59] <annevk> It still works :-)
# [06:59] <MikeSmith> annevk: git clean -fdx is what I usually do, fwiw
# [07:00] <MikeSmith> heh
# [07:00] <MikeSmith> good ✌️
# [07:00] <annevk> Hopefully I no longer I have the problem of html-build/source and html/source getting confused
# [07:00] <annevk> MikeSmith: did you see 🖖?
# [07:00] <MikeSmith> you will not have that problem
# [07:00] <MikeSmith> oh man
# [07:00] <MikeSmith> wow
# [07:01] <MikeSmith> no, dinnet now
# [07:01] <MikeSmith> hober gotta love tha one
# [07:01] <annevk> Got it from hober
# [07:01] <MikeSmith> hahah
# [07:01] <annevk> (obv)
# [07:01] <MikeSmith> yeah
# [07:01] <MikeSmith> I miss hober
# [07:01] <MikeSmith> haven't talked with him for quite a while
# [07:02] <terinjokes> MikeSmith: i started to get into the habit of `git clean -fdx` after publishing packages to npm for 6 months with my .idea folder included
# [07:02] <MikeSmith> terinjokes: yeah if you're going to clean, you should, you know, clean
# [07:18] <annevk> MikeSmith: the commit contains "TODO Move the following comment to the README.md file after we review."
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# [07:35] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
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# [07:35] <MikeSmith> will do that
# [07:36] <MikeSmith> thanks for catching that
# [07:46] <MikeSmith> annevk: fwiw I would prefer that we follow a policy that nobody ever push their own PRs to master unreviewed, ever
# [07:46] <MikeSmith> no matter how small
# [07:46] <MikeSmith> both for the build script and the source
# [07:47] <annevk> MikeSmith: you mean no changes ever?
# [07:47] <annevk> MikeSmith: maybe that is the best for this specification
# [07:47] <MikeSmith> I think that is ideal
# [07:47] <MikeSmith> yeah for the spec at least for sure
# [07:48] <MikeSmith> everybody make mistakes sometimes
# [07:48] <MikeSmith> always better to have a 2nd pair of eyes
# [07:48] <MikeSmith> sanity check, etc
# [07:48] <MikeSmith> anyway, https://github.com/whatwg/html-build/pull/22
# [07:49] <annevk> Yeah makes sense, given that most writing PRs haven't written the text doesn't help either
# [07:49] <annevk> MikeSmith: so yeah, I saw that, r+, but I guess I should merge it?
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# [08:01] <MikeSmith> yes please
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# [08:38] <SteveF_> annevk: domenic: as pre hixies feedback on ARIA section update, have removed the whole section and updated PR
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# [08:39] <MikeSmith> hey SteveF_
# [08:39] <SteveF_> hi
# [08:40] <MikeSmith> I reckon Domenic and Hixie are away but annevk is here
# [08:40] <SteveF_> OK
# [08:44] <annevk> SteveF_: I guess it might still be good to <ref> the various ARIA specifications
# [08:44] <annevk> SteveF_: or perhaps group them all under the [ARIA] banner?
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# [08:46] <SteveF_> annevk: I think it is worthwhile pointing implementers to the other specs, but seems like hixie didn't
# [08:47] <SteveF_> annevk: " under the [ARIA] banner" where? also not all are ARIA specs notably HTML acc API spec
# [08:49] <annevk> SteveF_: well, "This is redundant with the referenced specs." would no longer be true if we didn't reference anything, would it?
# [08:49] <SteveF_> annevk: I could add the section back with the references
# [08:50] <SteveF_> refernces only that is
# [08:50] <annevk> SteveF_: I meant that the text keeps it <ref spec=ARIA> and that the references section includes the various specifications under that banner, similar to what is done for HTTP
# [08:53] <annevk> SteveF_: and apologies for making this take so long, I was obviously not experienced enough to review that
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# [08:54] <annevk> SteveF_: still a bit early days trying to maintain HTML
# [08:55] <SteveF_> annevk: no problem
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# [09:01] <SteveF_> annevk: have pushed update to ARIA section PR that just has very brief references to the 2 relevant specs
# [09:02] <SteveF_> annevk: will wait to see how that goes down
# [09:04] <annevk> SteveF_: did you intentionally leave the list of roles and list of aria-* attributes in source?
# [09:05] <SteveF_> annevk: form the other section? I haven't looked at that bit yet thats as it was
# [09:05] <SteveF_> annevk: not added or edited by me
# [09:06] <MikeSmith> yeah I think we need to keep those
# [09:06] <MikeSmith> I don't think there is a conflict in keeping them
# [09:06] <MikeSmith> that section is not defining any requirements around them
# [09:07] <MikeSmith> it's basically just stating that they exist and are a part of the language
# [09:07] <annevk> It also has "The terms strong native semantics is used as defined in the ARIA specification. The term default implicit ARIA semantics has the same meaning as the term implicit WAI-ARIA semantics as used in the ARIA specification." which wouldn't really be relevant anymore
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# [09:07] <MikeSmith> hmm yeah
# [09:07] <SteveF_> what i said previoulsy is I would do a PR at some point to update the links there as they currently point to ARIA 1.0
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# [09:08] <SteveF_> annevk: so should i remove "The terms strong native semantics is used as defined in the ARIA specification. The term default implicit ARIA semantics has the same meaning as the term implicit WAI-ARIA semantics as used in the ARIA specification."?
# [09:10] <annevk> I'm not a 100% sure, but it seems like it
# [09:10] <SteveF_> OK
# [09:11] <annevk> I would prefer it if we reworked all of ARIA in a single commit in the end
# [09:11] <MikeSmith> yes please
# [09:11] <MikeSmith> squash
# [09:11] <annevk> I can take care of squashing your work, but if you have any other changes planned please make them here I think
# [09:11] <annevk> And then hopefully we can get Hixie to review when he wakes up and make this happen
# [09:14] <MikeSmith> Edge team just changed srcdoc to "under review"
# [09:14] <MikeSmith> https://dev.modern.ie/platform/status/iframesrcdocattribute/
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# [09:14] <MikeSmith> it was previously "no status"
# [09:15] <annevk> srcdoc is one of the things that makes navigate complicated
# [09:16] <annevk> I didn't realize this until today or so, but "navigate"'s input is "a new resource"
# [09:16] <annevk> And that means much more than a URL
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# [09:23] <SteveF_> annevk: pushed update with that text removed and links to aria attributes updated to point to latest spec
# [09:23] <SteveF_> annevk: so that should be it
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# [09:26] <MikeSmith> annevk: yeah that "navigate" stuff needs some attention
# [09:27] <annevk> SteveF_: ta
# [09:27] <annevk> SteveF_: almost 1% of line savings
# [09:28] <SteveF_> annevk: is that good?
# [09:29] <annevk> SteveF_: I think so, although it's somewhat sad to have a core part of HTML defined elsewhere
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# [09:33] <SteveF_> annevk: at least its defined somewhere :-)
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# [09:50] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: r? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5785
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# [10:02] <Ms2ger> nox, r? ^
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# [10:06] <nox> Ms2ger: Of what?
# [10:07] <Ms2ger> https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5785
# [10:14] <annevk> It seems to me that navigating back to an about:srcdoc document is not as well-defined as it should be
# [10:15] <annevk> Or maybe I missed something and those cannot end up in session history anyway?
# [10:15] <annevk> I didn't actually check that...
# [10:16] <nox> Ms2ger: Oh, the tests fail because they are wrong?
# [10:16] <Ms2ger> I dunno
# [10:18] <Ms2ger> That's why I'm delegating :)
# [10:18] <nox> The spec does reject most things in a frameset.
# [10:18] <annevk> nox: see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29041 for context
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# [10:26] <nox> Ms2ger: LGTM
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# [10:38] <zcorpan> it's over 9000!!!
# [10:39] <zcorpan> nox: ty
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# [10:54] <jgraham> annevk: I remember a little about navigation, but know very little about fetch
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# [10:57] <annevk> jgraham: I guess have to start from scratch then
# [10:58] <jgraham> annevk: Wat are you trying to do?
# [10:58] <annevk> jgraham: integrate the two
# [10:59] <Ms2ger> Sounds like we should ship you plenty of hard liquor, then
# [10:59] <jgraham> iirc the parts of navigation that actually fetch documents are super-handwavy at the moment
# [10:59] <jgraham> "do some magic until you have some bytes"
# [11:01] <annevk> https://twitter.com/zcorpan/status/641898714471206912 :-)
# [11:02] <annevk> jgraham: there's a lot of handwavy stuff going on unfortunately
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# [11:07] <annevk> Ms2ger: that might just make it worse :-)
# [11:08] <annevk> Ms2ger: good tea is welcome though
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# [11:17] <jgraham> Speaking of tea…
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# [12:14] <nox> zcorpan: No problem.
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# [12:56] * Ms2ger noticed http://blogs.opera.com/news/2015/09/opera-interns-share-their-stories/ had no Core interns
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# [13:13] <MikeSmith> annevk: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32500073/request-header-field-access-control-allow-headers-is-not-allowed-by-itself-in-pr
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# [13:18] <jgraham> Ms2ger: That appears to be a subset of all the interns though
# [13:21] <MikeSmith> about python troubleshooting, how do you all normally troubleshoot code where it's using multiple libs and trying to figure out where a problem might be?
# [13:22] <MikeSmith> gdb?
# [13:22] <MikeSmith> and/or is there some way to just dump a stack trace?
# [13:23] <jgraham> MikeSmith: What kind of problem?
# [13:23] <jgraham> YOu can get a stacktrace from within python using the traceback module
# [13:24] <MikeSmith> k
# [13:24] <jgraham> pdb is also reasonable if you aren't running with multiple threads and things
# [13:24] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
# [13:24] <jgraham> If you have something super-complicated using gdb makes sense
# [13:24] <MikeSmith> I recall use that before
# [13:24] <MikeSmith> it's not super-complicated
# [13:24] <MikeSmith> echo "<p>" | python -c "from sys import stdin; from lxml.html import html5parser as h5, tostring; print tostring(h5.parse(stdin, h5.HTMLParser(namespaceHTMLElements=False)))"
# [13:24] <jgraham> e.g. I use gdb when I'm trying to figure out deadlocks
# [13:24] <MikeSmith> <html:html xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><html:head></html:head><html:body><html:p>
# [13:24] <MikeSmith> </html:p></html:body></html:html>
# [13:25] <MikeSmith> yeah this problem is not complex
# [13:30] <Ms2ger> It involves an HTML parser, it is complex :)
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# [13:35] <MikeSmith> heh
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# [13:56] <MikeSmith> ok I reckon I have it figured out
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# [13:58] <MikeSmith> well, a guess at least
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# [14:12] <annevk> MikeSmith: tried to answer
# [14:12] <MikeSmith> cool
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# [14:57] <MikeSmith> the Push API has landed in Gecko?
# [14:57] <MikeSmith> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1038811
# [14:57] <MikeSmith> resolved=fix
# [14:57] <MikeSmith> wondering when it will ship
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# [15:24] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: well of course it didn't, Core hasn't existed for years!
# [15:24] <Ms2ger> Can I bug you for reviews already?
# [15:38] <Ms2ger> jgraham, annevk, you mentioned tea? https://historyofloveblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/can-drinking-tea-turn-you-into-a-whore/
# [15:41] <annevk> Ms2ger: I guess the rest of the world picked up on our channel topic at some point
# [15:51] <wanderview> annevk: you around?
# [15:52] <annevk> wanderview: c
# [15:52] <wanderview> annevk: regarding this: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/95#issuecomment-138653119
# [15:52] <wanderview> annevk: as far as I can tell, the spec says to return the Response provided to respondWith() as the result of the fetch algorithm
# [15:53] <wanderview> which suggests if the Response has a different url from the original Request, then that will be visible to script
# [15:53] <wanderview> annevk: sorry if there is somewhere that says to override the Response.url with the original Request.url.... I can't find it
# [15:53] <annevk> wanderview: step 15 of https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#main-fetch
# [15:54] <wanderview> ah
# [15:55] <wanderview> annevk: I see... and this works because 30x redirects are appending to the *request* url list, not the response list
# [15:56] <annevk> wanderview: they can't append to the response list
# [15:56] <annevk> wanderview: they are a response
# [15:57] <wanderview> annevk: yea, I just think necko is modeled differently
# [15:57] <annevk> ah, shucks
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# [15:59] <wanderview> annevk: the good news is my original concept of what SW+fetch was supposed to is correct... I just misread the spec when trying to prove it to ehsan
# [16:03] <annevk> wanderview: have to bring your A game to ehsan
# [16:03] * annevk finds out that more headers are subject to Referer than just Referer!
# [16:04] <annevk> Well, subject to the referrer policy...
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# [16:07] <wanderview> annevk: I'm going to CC you on this email if thats ok
# [16:07] <annevk> wanderview: sure
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# [16:10] <wanderview> annevk: have you thought about how you will spec the opaque tainting?
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# [16:10] <wanderview> the opaque tainting for images written to canvas
# [16:16] <annevk> wanderview: I haven't settled on something definitive yet I think, at the moment I'm just trying to convert the existing language and adding some new concepts along the way to help with that
# [16:17] <annevk> wanderview: I hope that once I'm through I can figure out something that's a bit more coherent
# [16:17] <annevk> wanderview: but in general it's as we discussed I think; basic/cors/default is "safe", other types are unsafe
# [16:18] <wanderview> annevk: yea, I was more wondering how it would be tracked... just a boolean flag... or an origin that is compared
# [16:19] <annevk> wanderview: ah I think I discussed that with bz and Hixie at some point and we decided boolean was fine
# [16:20] <annevk> wanderview: that once you're secure it's okay, even if you then end up leaking it with your public suffix friends
# [16:25] <wanderview> annevk: yea... I think we felt we needed the final URL fully propagated before we had some of the recent spec changes implemented... if you look at my email it seems we are safe and a boolean should work
# [16:25] <wanderview> I think
# [16:25] <wanderview> annevk: ehsan may disagree
# [16:28] <annevk> wanderview: yeah the security really doesn't depend on URLs
# [16:28] <annevk> wanderview: it's just tainting
# [16:29] <annevk> wanderview: and once you're tainted you can't untaint
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# [18:02] <Domenic> jkdflsajdf git troubles
# [18:02] <Domenic> fffrig annevk can you re-push that commit i killed it accidentally
# [18:03] <annevk> Domenic: c6d4dda..8d1c8af ruby -> ruby
# [18:04] <annevk> (aka done)
# [18:04] <annevk> (also rebased)
# [18:04] <Domenic> ok cool. github wasn't smart enough to re-associate with the pr oh well
# [18:05] <annevk> Domenic: hmm weird, always works for me these days
# [18:05] <annevk> Domenic: hmm you didn't push?
# [18:06] <Domenic> annevk: I was experimenting with my local script and effed things up and force-pushed to the ruby branch with zero commits. which auto-closed the PR. when you re-added a commit it wasn't smart enough to re-open the PR.
# [18:06] <annevk> Domenic: oh
# [18:06] <annevk> perhaps edit the commit message then to say Close #101: ...?
# [18:07] * Ms2ger tends to put (fixes #nnn) at the ned
# [18:07] <Ms2ger> end
# [18:09] <Domenic> Oh I think I know the problem
# [18:09] <Domenic> I was using my new checkout from the build script
# [18:09] <Domenic> Which doesn't have the full history
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# [18:09] <Domenic> which makes git confused about remote branches that are based on top of previous commits
# [18:09] <annevk> I gotta go for a bit
# [18:09] <Domenic> (like ruby used to be)
# [18:09] <Domenic> OK, it'll be merged with no problems by the time you get back, promise
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# [18:28] <annevk> Domenic: so the problem with not associating either through GitHub's purple thingie or an explicit "Close #n:" is that someone browsing the commit logs has no way to find the rationale
# [18:28] <Domenic> annevk: oh, I see :(
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# [18:28] <Domenic> I was like ... but 101 is already accidentally closed...
# [18:28] <annevk> Domenic: so I think we should maybe make that part of the policy, that you either have a clean merge or edit the commit message
# [18:29] <Domenic> annevk: OK. I find it a bit weird for PRs to close themselves but your reasoning is more compelling.
# [18:29] <Domenic> What some projects do is standardize on fields like PR URL: ...
# [18:29] <Domenic> e.g. browse the commits at https://github.com/nodejs/node/commits/master
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# [18:46] <annevk> That seems fine too
# [18:48] <Domenic> Is the ARIA PR still waiting on something?
# [18:49] <annevk> Domenic: Hixie
# [18:49] <Domenic> It looks like the ASCII fish example is still missing
# [18:50] <annevk> Domenic: that seems to be in the referenced draft...
# [18:50] <Domenic> I guess we shouldn't duplicate it
# [18:50] <annevk> Domenic: Steve added it back in, but dropped it after Hixie's comments
# [18:50] <Domenic> OK
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# [18:58] * annevk added the kitchen sink to the header of https://twitter.com/htmlstandard
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# [19:07] <annevk> I'll merge ARIA
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# [19:14] <annevk> Getting some errors from the build script...
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# [19:28] <annevk> The errors were from the W3C Bugzilla cross-referencing btw
# [19:28] <annevk> Closing the bugs seems to have helped...
# [19:30] <Domenic> heh
# [19:30] <Domenic> yeah I noticed MikeSmith removing some URLs from bugs presumably for similar reasons
# [19:30] <Domenic> I need to fix https://github.com/whatwg/html-build/issues/21
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# [20:24] <Domenic> beverloo: long shot but do you have a SVG of http://peter.sh/experiments/asynchronous-and-deferred-javascript-execution-explained/
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# [20:37] <hober> MikeSmith: awwwwh, I miss you too Mike.
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# [21:10] <wanderview> annevk: Domenic: have we figured out how to handle variable length uploads with fetch streams integration? mcmanus tells me that will not work for http1 since it needs an accurate content-length on the upload
# [21:11] <Domenic> wanderview: content-encoding chunked, right?
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# [21:11] <Domenic> wanderview: I thought all streaming uploads would be CE: chunked
# [21:11] <wanderview> Domenic: http1.1 supports chunked, but http1 does not... and we cannot tell if the server supports 1.1 until after we send the request
# [21:12] <Domenic> wanderview: i guess fetch stream uploads don't work with http 1.0 then
# [21:12] <wanderview> Domenic: we're not tackling this in the spec yet, right?
# [21:12] <Domenic> wanderview: no, no uploads yet. Q4 is yhirano_'s plan
# [21:13] <wanderview> Domenic: well, FYI about this issue then... I ran into it a bit prematurely because I was trying to lay some groundwork in infrastructure while fixing another bug
# [21:13] <Domenic> yeah, good to know :-S
# [21:14] <wanderview> Domenic: is there an issue or somewhere I should note this?
# [21:15] <Domenic> wanderview: fetch-with-streams has a whole label for upload, yeah, would be good.
# [21:15] <wanderview> ok, thanks
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# [21:35] <wanderview> https://github.com/yutakahirano/fetch-with-streams/issues/57
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# [21:48] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: fyi http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32493442/html-whitespace-spaces-before-and-after-br
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# [21:50] <MikeSmith> Domenic: yeah, I removed the URLs from those bugs because with the source on the ARIA branch, the presence of them was an error, so rightly the merge of the branch shouldn't happen until those errors were fixed
# [21:50] <MikeSmith> this is another thing we need to document
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# [21:51] <MikeSmith> the timing of when to remove the URLs is a gray era I guess. But basically, they shouldn't be removed until there's agreement to merge the branch
# [21:53] <MikeSmith> also I think someone reviewing the branch needs to take also responsibility for actually closing the bugs (or moving their components), if it turns out that after the changes, the bug is no longer relevant or has been resolved by the changes on the branch
# [21:54] <annevk> wanderview: I guess it would just fail for HTTP/1.0 then
# [21:54] <annevk> wanderview: is that problematic?
# [21:54] <wanderview> annevk: if the js script expects to do an infinite upload stream... what will happen?
# [21:55] <wanderview> get an error code immediately when it sees the chunked setting?
# [21:55] <wanderview> when the server sees
# [21:55] <wanderview> or does the server wait for the entire body to finish before sending an error code?
# [21:55] <wanderview> I expect there are server bugs here
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# [22:00] <annevk> wanderview: I have no idea
# [22:00] <annevk> wanderview: servers are rather broken, typically
# [22:00] <wanderview> annevk: yea, just saying we should test some servers and see what they do
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# [22:00] <wanderview> before creating a footgun to easily OOM the browser
# [22:01] <wanderview> because servers do something different than we expect
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# [22:01] <wanderview> annevk: in fairness, browsers are rather broken typically too
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# [22:05] <MikeSmith> annevk: the https://twitter.com/htmlstandard image is perfect🖖
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# [22:20] <caitp> hah
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# [22:22] <Domenic> someone test http://jsbin.com/xelixaqaru/edit?html,output in Safari for me? what type of error is in your console?
# [22:22] <MikeSmith> Domenic: looking now
# [22:23] <MikeSmith> 7TypeError
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# [22:23] <Domenic> perfect
# [22:24] <MikeSmith> Domenic: btw I think adopting a PR URL: convention would be good
# [22:24] <MikeSmith> with the nit that it could just as well but PR:
# [22:25] <MikeSmith> (without the URL part)
# [22:25] <MikeSmith> because it's always going to be a URL
# [22:25] <MikeSmith> *could just as well be just "PR:"
# [22:26] <Domenic> Heh yes
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# [22:40] <Domenic> MikeSmith: regarding https://github.com/whatwg/html-build/issues/21#issuecomment-139366175, should we just treat any output from wattsi as an error, and return the error text instead of the zip file?
# [22:40] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: Thanks for the heads up on that SO thread. I've sent email to the list about it. ^_^
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# [22:45] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: cool
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# [22:45] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: I really wish you were the one editing that spec
# [22:45] <MikeSmith> but you can't do everything, I guess
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# [22:57] <TabAtkins> Unfortunately.
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# [23:54] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
# Session Close: Fri Sep 11 00:00:01 2015

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