/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-11-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Nov 13 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  89. # [03:07] <jacobolus> does anyone know if there's an IRC channel for web assembly?
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  101. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> jacobolus: yeah, on irc.w3.org, #webassembly
  102. # [03:24] <jacobolus> just found that :)
  103. # [03:24] <jacobolus> thanks
  104. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> k
  105. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> it's fairly activeーcore committers hang out there
  106. # [03:24] <jacobolus> MikeSmith: know if it has a bot saving history somewhere?
  107. # [03:25] <MikeSmith> dunno
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  110. # [03:25] <MikeSmith> sunfish there might know
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  262. # [07:44] <annevk> http://www.sadtrombone.com/ excellent
  263. # [07:45] <annevk> jgraham: not sure if you saw my ping, but could you take a look at https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/323 please?
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  265. # [07:53] <annevk> The GitHub x/y links only work within the same organization? That is kind of lame
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  278. # [08:18] <annevk> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pOZ8ppcxEsJ6N8KfnfrI0EXwPEvHwg3BHyxzXXw8lRE/edit is really quite great
  279. # [08:19] <annevk> Waiting for foolip to tweet it
  280. # [08:19] <annevk> Or rbyers
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  283. # [08:26] <annevk> Seems rbyers did
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  302. # [09:35] <zcorpan_> i don't like that webvtt has the id above the timings. would be much nicer to have the id as a setting
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  304. # [09:35] <zcorpan_> wonder if that can still be changed
  305. # [09:43] <jgraham> annevk: Oh sorry. I seem to be subscribed to that repo so I can't tell when someone specifically pings me
  306. # [09:45] <zcorpan_> annevk: i think foolip tweeted it also
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  308. # [09:51] <annevk> zcorpan_: hmm, Twitter search sucks or does Docs URLs are not stable
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  310. # [09:51] <annevk> or are stable but duplicates exist
  311. # [09:52] <zcorpan_> https://twitter.com/foolip/status/664548364978008064
  312. # [09:52] <zcorpan_> seems his url ends with ?usp=sharing
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  330. # [10:31] <JakeA> wanderview: it yeah seen as a performance issue due to updating .installing etc, and updating the registration value itself. But if you don't think it is… it'd be convenient
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  333. # [10:47] <annevk> yoav: are you planning btw on updating <link rel>, <iframe sandbox>, etc. in HTML to make use of the supported tokens construct?
  334. # [10:47] <yoav> annevk: I plan to update <link rel>
  335. # [10:49] <annevk> ok
  336. # [10:49] <annevk> mkwst: you might want to update <iframe sandbox> I suppose
  337. # [10:49] <annevk> bz seems pretty keen on implementing in Gecko once the standard is in place
  338. # [10:49] <yoav> if it's a simple change I might update both, haven't looked at <iframe> just yet
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  342. # [10:55] <annevk> Those seem like the only two for which this is applicable
  343. # [10:55] <annevk> Perhaps <a rel>/<area rel>, but user agents don't really do anything with those
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  347. # [10:58] <annevk> jgraham: so the problem is mostly that opening new browsing contexts requires user interaction
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  350. # [10:59] <annevk> jgraham: so any test would be a terrible manual test
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  353. # [11:00] <Ms2ger> window.open()?
  354. # [11:00] <annevk> Ms2ger: yes
  355. # [11:00] <Ms2ger> Alternatively, webdriver in the future
  356. # [11:00] <annevk> sure
  357. # [11:01] <Ms2ger> But wpt tests can assume that window.open() works without user interaction
  358. # [11:01] <annevk> Ms2ger: oh they can, how?
  359. # [11:01] <mkwst> annevk: What is this?
  360. # [11:02] <annevk> mkwst: yoav landed a thing in DOM that allows DOMTokenList/DOMSettableTokenList to be used for feature testing, but it requires HTML to hook into the thing
  361. # [11:02] <mkwst> annevk: Oh.Ok, this is for feature detecting sandbox flag support?
  362. # [11:03] <yoav> mkwst: yeah. I plan to look into adding the corresponding parts into <link rel>
  363. # [11:03] <annevk> mkwst: yeah, and <link rel> values
  364. # [11:03] <mkwst> yoav: If you point me to whatever you added, I'm happy to add it to HTML. Or you can do it. Whatever. :)
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  367. # [11:03] <Ms2ger> annevk, I think wptrunner should set a pref in Firefox, not sure how it's handled for other browsers
  368. # [11:04] * Quits: frivoal (~frivoal@softbank126142063093.bbtec.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  369. # [11:04] <yoav> mkwst: I'll add it to <link rel> and see if it's not too much hassle to add to iframe as well. I'll ping you if I give up :)
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  372. # [11:06] <mkwst> yoav: Excellent! /me delegates
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  374. # [11:09] <JakeA> annevk: wikileaks.org and search.wikileaks.org are the same IP, would a MITM be able to tell the difference?
  375. # [11:10] <jgraham> annevk: window.open?
  376. # [11:10] <jgraham> Oh Ms2ger said all this
  377. # [11:11] <jgraham> wpt requires that you disable the popup blocker for the domain
  378. # [11:11] <jgraham> Otherwise you will get spurious results
  379. # [11:16] <mkwst> jgraham: Just wait until we specify the popup blocker's behavior.
  380. # [11:16] <mkwst> Test _that_. Muwahaha.
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  384. # [11:22] <jgraham> Pretty sure after hearing what the web bluetooth people want you can't scare me anymore
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  401. # [12:16] <annevk> JakeA: DNS lookups?
  402. # [12:16] <botie> I can't find that machine name
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  405. # [12:16] <annevk> JakeA: but yeah, the hostname is transmitted in clear text
  406. # [12:17] <annevk> JakeA: that might go away at some point, maybe, but that would still leave DNS lookups I think
  407. # [12:24] <JakeA> annevk: ohh, I didn't realise that dns was clear text hmm.
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  409. # [12:25] <annevk> JakeA: in TLS the host is also transmitted as clear text afaik
  410. # [12:26] <annevk> JakeA: the idea here is that the server can dispatch the request to the right process more easily that way, e.g., you don't need to have all the certificates available at the root or some such
  411. # [12:27] <annevk> JakeA: but still, I think that was poor judgment and it may or may not get fixed in TLSv13
  412. # [12:27] <JakeA> yeah, seems pretty leaky
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  417. # [12:38] <annevk> JakeA: DNS is the worst, but fortunately there's HTTPS to save the day
  418. # [12:38] <annevk> And sometimes someone might utter DNSSEC, but they haven't read http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/01/15/against-dnssec/
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  420. # [12:39] <annevk> Also, I don't think DNSSEC gives confidentiality
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  429. # [12:58] <gsnedders> annevk: it doesn't. it merely gives a basis to trust the response.
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  437. # [13:40] <mkwst> annevk: Very important question: what should `URLSearchParams('=').toString()` produce? What about `URLSearchParams('%e2').toString()`?
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  439. # [13:43] <mkwst> Mozilla has an answer, but it seems strange.
  440. # [13:44] <Ms2ger> I think URLSearchParams('=').toString() === '=' per spec and Gecko
  441. # [13:45] <mkwst> Basically, I don't follow the logic of https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1032511 for '%e2', 'a%e2', 'a%e2b'.
  442. # [13:48] <Ms2ger> I think `URLSearchParams('%e2')` would give an internal list of [('%e2', '')]
  443. # [13:48] <Ms2ger> Oh wait
  444. # [13:49] <Ms2ger> [('=', '')]
  445. # [13:49] <Ms2ger> So I think it should serialize to '=='
  446. # [13:49] <Ms2ger> Which is not what Gecko does
  447. # [13:54] <mkwst> Chrome doesn't like `decodeURIComponent('%e2')`. Neither does Gecko, for that matter.
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  451. # [14:13] <annevk> Parsing = leads to an empty pair, which when serialized becomes = afaik
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  453. # [14:16] <annevk> %2e becomes "." afaict since the parser percent decodes
  454. # [14:16] <annevk> mkwst: Ms2ger: ^
  455. # [14:17] <Ms2ger> 2e is =, no?
  456. # [14:17] <Ms2ger> The parser percent decodes after splitting on =
  457. # [14:17] <mkwst> e2. Not 2e.
  458. # [14:18] <annevk> Oh
  459. # [14:18] <annevk> Yeah, for that case == sounds reasonable
  460. # [14:20] <annevk> Sorry, %e2 is non-ASCII of course, not =
  461. # [14:20] <annevk> So the reason that fails is that E2 by itself is not valid UTF-8, so trying to decode it will get you a replacement code point
  462. # [14:21] <annevk> Which is why you get the '\ufffd=' serialization
  463. # [14:21] <annevk> mkwst: Ms2ger: ^
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  465. # [14:22] <mkwst> Ok. It looks like Chrome is decoding it as ASCII, which seems potentially incorrect. :)
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  471. # [14:38] <zcorpan> anyone know if http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30548399/filter-issues-on-github-that-will-be-closed-by-a-pull-request is possible?
  472. # [14:41] <zcorpan> maybe i can use assignee as workaround
  473. # [14:42] <zcorpan> though that means more spam plus a manual step
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  478. # [15:00] <mkwst> annevk: I guess `URLUtils` is obsolete?
  479. # [15:00] <annevk> mkwst: yes
  480. # [15:00] <mkwst> Wunderbar. Do you intend to add `searchParams` to `HTTPAnchorElement`?
  481. # [15:01] <mkwst> Or, HTMLHyperlinkElementUtils rather.
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  484. # [15:10] <annevk> mkwst: Firefox implements that at the moment, but I think it's cleaner if we keep it to URL
  485. # [15:10] <annevk> mkwst: because we cannot offer it for Location
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  487. # [15:11] <annevk> mkwst: so instead of Location/WorkerLocation being the weird ones, seemed saner to make URL special
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  490. # [15:12] <mkwst> I'm fine either way, I just need to know what I actually need to implement. :)
  491. # [15:14] <annevk> mkwst: just on URL
  492. # [15:15] <mkwst> ok. beautiful.
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  494. # [15:19] <Ms2ger> annevk, do you know if anyone has written tests for https://github.com/whatwg/dom/commit/2920fc15b9e894c45ff84c5d3bb77f7513ff50e5 ?
  495. # [15:20] <annevk> Ms2ger: I suspect there are tests already given that bz found it, but haven't checked
  496. # [15:20] <Ms2ger> Ok
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  505. # [15:40] <smaug____> annevk: CanvasRenderingContext2D.canvas is HTMLCanvasElement even in workers
  506. # [15:40] <smaug____> in the spec
  507. # [15:41] <smaug____> CanvasRenderingContext2D is exposed in workers, but HTMLCanvasElement isn't
  508. # [15:41] <annevk> smaug____: yeah so is any of that implemented and specified as folks want?
  509. # [15:42] <annevk> smaug____: I had the impression that we're still changing how to do canvas in workers
  510. # [15:42] <smaug____> I'm just reviewing a patch which implements this stuff
  511. # [15:42] <smaug____> in the patch it is readonly attribute CanvasObj? canvas;
  512. # [15:42] <smaug____> typedef (HTMLCanvasElement or OffscreenCanvas) CanvasObj;
  513. # [15:43] <annevk> smaug____: https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/OffscreenCanvas
  514. # [15:43] <annevk> smaug____: oh great
  515. # [15:43] <annevk> smaug____: I didn't realize folks were implementing that wiki page already
  516. # [15:43] <annevk> smaug____: or that it was done somehow
  517. # [15:43] <annevk> smaug____: none of this is integrated into HTML proper
  518. # [15:44] <smaug____> taiwan folks do all this great canvas and video worker stuff atm :)
  519. # [15:44] <smaug____> this will be behind a pref initial ofc
  520. # [15:45] <annevk> smaug____: that is pretty cool, but do we know whether this draft is stable? It's certainly not been hold to any kind of spec-writing scrutiny
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  522. # [15:45] <annevk> "This proposal has been vetted by developers of Apple's Safari, Google's Chrome, Microsoft's Internet Explorer, and Mozilla's Firefox browsers. All vendors agreed upon the basic form of the API, so it is likely it will be implemented widely and compatibly."
  523. # [15:45] <annevk> I guess the wiki page is pretty confident it's all good
  524. # [15:45] <smaug____> roc has been involved with this stuff
  525. # [15:45] <smaug____> I'm just reviewing the .webidl bits
  526. # [15:46] <smaug____> looks like also Justin Novosad commented in the bug recently
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  528. # [15:50] <annevk> Yeah, certainly seems like it's much further along than I thought
  529. # [15:50] <annevk> I figured they'd turn it into some PR at some point
  530. # [15:50] <annevk> Perhaps I should start asking about that now
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  555. # [17:24] <yoav> zcorpan: around?
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  557. # [17:30] <zcorpan> yoav: for a bit'
  558. # [17:30] <yoav> zcorpan: looks at adding the html bits for <link> relList
  559. # [17:31] <zcorpan> yoav: ok cool
  560. # [17:31] <yoav> I got:
  561. # [17:31] <yoav> <p>The IDL attribute <dfn><code data-x="dom-link-rellist">relList</code></dfn> <span
  562. # [17:31] <yoav> w-nodev>must</span> <span data-x="reflect">reflect</span> the <code
  563. # [17:31] <yoav> data-x="attr-link-rel">rel</code> content attribute. The <code data-x="supported tokens">supported tokens</code> for <code
  564. # [17:31] <yoav> data-x="dom-link-rellist">relList</code> include the rel values defined in <a>linkTypes</a>. Other specifications may add other supported
  565. # [17:31] <yoav> tokens</p>
  566. # [17:32] <yoav> which is total pseudo-code in many places where I don't know how to link :)
  567. # [17:32] <yoav> Could you take a look and tell me how to do what I'm trying to do?
  568. # [17:33] <yoav> e.g. how to link to things in the DOM spec?
  569. # [17:33] <yoav> how to link to linkTypes
  570. # [17:33] <yoav> and to dom-link-rellist
  571. # [17:36] <zcorpan> yoav: html has a Dependencies section where cross-spec terms are <dfn>ed
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  573. # [17:36] <Ms2ger> And that's a crappy approach
  574. # [17:36] <Ms2ger> Doesn't html have real cross-spec links yet?
  575. # [17:37] <yoav> zcorpan: OK, thanks, I'll look into that
  576. # [17:37] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: nope
  577. # [17:39] <zcorpan> yoav: <span> for non-code xrefs
  578. # [17:40] <yoav> so, "<span>linkTypes</span>" ?
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  581. # [17:43] <zcorpan> yes, or <span data-x="the-actual-xref-term-w00t">linkTypes</span>
  582. # [17:44] <yoav> ok, cool
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  593. # [18:34] <annevk> I think link types is the only which requires <a>
  594. # [18:34] <annevk> We should probably clean that up at some point
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  617. # [19:57] <yoav> annevk: https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/340 is a first stab at adding the feature detection parts to html
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  679. # Session Close: Sat Nov 14 00:00:00 2015

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