/irc-logs / w3c / #xhtml / 2007-06-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 20 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #xhtml
  3. # [03:04] * Joins: sbuluf (kpmftn@200.49.140.235)
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  10. # [15:50] * Joins: Steven (Steven_@128.30.52.30)
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  13. # [15:50] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-xhtml-irc
  14. # [15:51] <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
  15. # [15:51] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Steven
  16. # [15:51] <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml
  17. # [15:51] <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
  18. # [15:51] <Steven> Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference
  19. # [15:51] <Steven> Regrets: Susan, Alessio
  20. # [15:52] <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jun/0020
  21. # [15:52] * Steven changes topic to 'Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jun/0020'
  22. # [15:53] <Steven> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jun/0019.html Previous
  23. # [15:54] * Joins: Tina (tina@82.182.24.153)
  24. # [15:58] * Joins: ShaneM (ShaneM@208.42.66.13)
  25. # [16:00] <Steven> zakim, call steven-617
  26. # [16:00] <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
  27. # [16:00] <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started
  28. # [16:00] <Zakim> +Dialer
  29. # [16:00] <Zakim> -Dialer
  30. # [16:00] <Zakim> +Steven
  31. # [16:00] * Steven wonders who dialer is...
  32. # [16:00] <Zakim> +ShaneM
  33. # [16:01] <Zakim> +Tina
  34. # [16:01] * Joins: yamx (sample@220.97.171.76)
  35. # [16:02] <Zakim> +??P16
  36. # [16:02] <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?
  37. # [16:02] <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
  38. # [16:03] <Zakim> +??P17
  39. # [16:04] <yamx> this is yam
  40. # [16:04] <yamx> zakim, i am ??P17
  41. # [16:04] <Zakim> +yamx; got it
  42. # [16:04] <Steven> zakim, ??P17 is yamx
  43. # [16:04] <Zakim> I already had ??P17 as yamx, Steven
  44. # [16:05] * Joins: Rich (schwer@72.183.111.208)
  45. # [16:07] <Steven> Scribe: Steven
  46. # [16:07] <Steven> Topic: Chair
  47. # [16:07] <Zakim> +??P18
  48. # [16:08] <Steven> zakim, ??P18 is Rich
  49. # [16:08] <Zakim> +Rich; got it
  50. # [16:08] <Steven> Steven: Roland Merrick of IBM will be joining me as co-chair
  51. # [16:09] <Steven> Topic: Roadmap
  52. # [16:11] <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml-roadmap/
  53. # [16:12] <Steven> Here is the latest one: http://www.w3.org/2007/03/XHTML2-WG-charter
  54. # [16:16] <Steven> Shane: There is a mismatch between the documents section and the milestones
  55. # [16:16] <Steven> Steven: All the more reason to update the roadmap document
  56. # [16:17] <Steven> Mark: It looks like the documents section is OK, only the milestones are missing some
  57. # [16:17] <Steven> ACTION: Steven to update the roadmap document
  58. # [16:17] * RRSAgent records action 1
  59. # [16:17] <Steven> Topic: Wiki/Blog
  60. # [16:21] <Steven> Steven: DO we think this is a good idea?
  61. # [16:21] <Steven> ... example: http://www.w3.org/International/
  62. # [16:21] <Steven> Shane: It's a good idea
  63. # [16:21] <Steven> s/DO/Do/
  64. # [16:22] <Steven> ACTION: Steven investigate starting a blog and wiki
  65. # [16:22] * RRSAgent records action 2
  66. # [16:22] <Steven> Topic: Vote on last call for Role and Access
  67. # [16:23] <Steven> Steven: I saw this as an action from last week
  68. # [16:23] <Steven> Shane: The final version of role is not ready, sorry
  69. # [16:24] <Steven> Tina: I had an action item to review the role document
  70. # [16:26] <Steven> ... I'm not convinced wee need it
  71. # [16:26] <Steven> ... I don't like representing semantics in attributes rather than elements
  72. # [16:27] <Steven> Steven: But it offeres extensibility in semantics without having to constantly revise the language
  73. # [16:27] <Steven> s/offeres/offers/
  74. # [16:30] <Steven> Tina: I'm worried that people will create semantics with <div role=
  75. # [16:30] <Steven> Steven: Agreed we have to talk about best practices
  76. # [16:31] <Steven> Rich: You can't stop people doing the wrong thing; at least we now have a way to extract the real semantics, rather than having to guess
  77. # [16:32] <Steven> Steven: The nice thing that this offers is a link to the semantic web way of defining semantics
  78. # [16:34] <Steven> Tina: For people who don't understand h1, rdf doesn't give them any value
  79. # [16:34] <Steven> Mark: I think you are missing the point
  80. # [16:34] <Steven> .... you don't have to understand rdf
  81. # [16:34] <Steven> ... there are values you can use
  82. # [16:35] <Steven> ... so we have the best of both worlds: a predefined list, and hooks into rdf which makes it extensible for the future
  83. # [16:35] <Steven> Tina: I'm worried that people will ad semantics with role
  84. # [16:37] <Steven> ... if someone makes up their own semantics, there is no way to get out the real meaning
  85. # [16:37] <Steven> Steven: Yes there is! That's the nice thing about semweb tools: you can define the relationship between different semantics ('ontologies')
  86. # [16:38] <Steven> Rich: The nice thing about this apporach is that you don't need 'skip to' links for instance, and the browser still offers a shortcut to the main content
  87. # [16:41] <Steven> Steven: Are you going to do a review, or was this it Tina?
  88. # [16:41] <Steven> Tina: THe document is fine, I'm just worried about the principle.
  89. # [16:42] <Steven> Topic: Name and namespace
  90. # [16:42] <Zakim> -ShaneM
  91. # [16:42] <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jun/0018.html
  92. # [16:44] <Steven> Shane: You know my opinion; they should not calll it XHTML unless they use modularization
  93. # [16:44] <Steven> Tina: There are two markup languages, HTML and XHTML. I'm not sure that HTLM5 is even HTML, but that is a different discussion
  94. # [16:47] <Steven> Rich: I'm worried about the confusion. I have no problems with HTML5/xml or so
  95. # [16:48] <Steven> ... but not XHTML5
  96. # [16:48] <Steven> Mark: I don't see why they need two names. They have HTML5, with two serializations. No need for two names
  97. # [16:48] <Steven> Tina: I agree with the problem of confusion
  98. # [16:48] <Steven> ... I've already seen it amongst developers.
  99. # [16:49] <Steven> Rich: ALl existing XHTMLs have been modular, and HTML5 is not. Its's a mess.
  100. # [16:50] * Quits: yamx (sample@220.97.171.76) (Ping timeout)
  101. # [16:50] <Steven> S/ALl/All
  102. # [16:50] <Steven> Yam: It doesn't make any sense for them to produce something called XHTML5
  103. # [16:51] * Joins: yamx (sample@220.97.171.76)
  104. # [16:51] <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jun/0017.html
  105. # [16:53] <Steven> Steven: And now the namespace
  106. # [16:53] <Steven> ... we were criticised in the past for having a different namespace, and therefore we changed it back (correctly in my view)
  107. # [16:54] <ShaneM> I concur.
  108. # [16:54] <Steven> Rich: I think HTML5 is not backwards compatible
  109. # [16:54] <Steven> Tina: Agreed, especially with elements changing meaning
  110. # [16:56] <Steven> Steven: I believe that XHTML2 is more backwards compatible than HTML5
  111. # [16:56] <Steven> Rich: If the browser manufacturers are going to have to make lal these changes for au=dio, video, canvas and so on, what''s the problem with a new namespace?
  112. # [16:56] <Steven> Steven: Good point
  113. # [16:57] <Steven> Topic: URL is overspecified
  114. # [17:00] * Quits: Rich (schwer@72.183.111.208) (Quit: Rich)
  115. # [17:00] <Zakim> -markbirbeck
  116. # [17:00] <Zakim> -Steven
  117. # [17:00] <Zakim> -yamx
  118. # [17:00] <Zakim> -Tina
  119. # [17:00] * Quits: yamx (sample@220.97.171.76) (Quit: CHOCOA)
  120. # [17:01] <Steven> StevenL If I understand the point of view being expressed, just because URLs go over the wire in ascii, there is no reason to demand the URL in the XHTML source to be ascii; we can allow the international form of domain names etc in the source, and require the browser to udo the conversion to ascii
  121. # [17:01] <Steven> Yam: Quite agree
  122. # [17:01] <Steven> Mark: Sounds like a good idea
  123. # [17:01] <Steven> ACTION: Steven to get advice from I18N group about international form of URIs
  124. # [17:01] * RRSAgent records action 3
  125. # [17:02] <Steven> s/StevenL/Steven:/
  126. # [17:02] <Steven> zakim, who is here?
  127. # [17:02] <Zakim> On the phone I see Rich
  128. # [17:02] <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, Tina, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, markbirbeck, krijnh
  129. # [17:02] <Steven> zakim, drop rich
  130. # [17:02] <Zakim> Rich is being disconnected
  131. # [17:02] <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended
  132. # [17:02] <Zakim> Attendees were Dialer, Steven, ShaneM, Tina, markbirbeck, yamx, Rich
  133. # [17:03] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  134. # [17:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  135. # [17:03] <Steven> Chair: Steven
  136. # [17:06] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  137. # [17:06] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  138. # [17:22] * Quits: Tina (tina@82.182.24.153) (Quit: leaving)
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  140. # [19:30] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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  147. # [23:12] * Parts: Steven (Steven_@128.30.52.30)
  148. # Session Close: Thu Jun 21 00:00:00 2007

The end :)