/irc-logs / w3c / #xhtml / 2008-04-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 02 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #xhtml
  3. # [07:57] * Quits: ShaneM (ShaneM@71.220.86.124) (Ping timeout)
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  16. # [15:41] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-irc
  17. # [15:41] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  18. # [15:41] <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml
  19. # [15:41] <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
  20. # [15:41] <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
  21. # [15:41] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Steven
  22. # [15:41] <Steven> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
  23. # [15:42] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Leaving)
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  25. # [15:42] * Tina is here but on the phone with a client
  26. # [15:42] * oedipus oedipus (GJR) has to reboot his wonky computer (the other won't won't talk to me)
  27. # [15:42] * oedipus may be a little late as consequence
  28. # [15:42] * Quits: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.194.3) (Quit: so long, lil' dudes -- don't learn anything i wouldn't learn!)
  29. # [15:43] * Joins: Roland (Roland@88.108.36.44)
  30. # [15:44] <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
  31. # [15:44] <Zakim> + +0138687aaaa
  32. # [15:45] * Joins: myakura (myakura@122.29.8.215)
  33. # [15:45] <Roland> Zakim, aaaa is Roland
  34. # [15:45] <Zakim> +Roland; got it
  35. # [15:46] * Joins: RolandMerrick (586c242c@128.30.52.43)
  36. # [15:46] * RolandMerrick changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001.html'
  37. # [15:46] * Quits: RolandMerrick (586c242c@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC)
  38. # [15:47] <Zakim> +??P9
  39. # [15:47] <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001
  40. # [15:47] * Steven changes topic to 'Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001'
  41. # [15:47] <Roland> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
  42. # [15:47] * Joins: yamx (sample@122.26.1.21)
  43. # [15:48] <Roland> Chair: Roland
  44. # [15:48] <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001.html
  45. # [15:48] <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
  46. # [15:48] <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
  47. # [15:48] <Zakim> +Steven
  48. # [15:49] <Steven> zakim, who is here?
  49. # [15:49] <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, ??P9, Steven
  50. # [15:49] <Zakim> On IRC I see yamx, myakura, Roland, Lachy, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, CSB, Tina, Steven, krijnh
  51. # [15:49] <Zakim> +ShaneM
  52. # [15:49] <Steven> zakim, ??P9 is alessio
  53. # [15:49] <Zakim> +alessio; got it
  54. # [15:50] * Joins: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.194.3)
  55. # [15:50] * Steven waves to CSB
  56. # [15:50] * Quits: yamx (sample@122.26.1.21) (Ping timeout)
  57. # [15:51] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  58. # [15:51] * oedipus i'm on mute as i try to figure out why 3 screen readers are running simultaneously on my computer...
  59. # [15:52] * Joins: yamx (sample@122.26.1.21)
  60. # [15:52] <Zakim> +??P12
  61. # [15:52] <yamx> Zakim, P12 is yamx.
  62. # [15:52] <Zakim> sorry, yamx, I do not recognize a party named 'P12'
  63. # [15:52] <yamx> Zakim, ??P12 is yamx.
  64. # [15:52] <Zakim> +yamx; got it
  65. # [15:52] * oedipus morning/evening, yam
  66. # [15:56] <oedipus> SP: editors of CSS Namespace contacted us to find if formal objection; we said yes, if comment rejected; spoke with chair of WG and he said it hadn't been discussed -- was a decision by fiat by the editors -- means we are in limbo awaiting a formal response from WG -- had separate discussion with CSS WG that i didn't copy to XHTML2 list because according to charter, they are member-only, and i quoted member-only text so couldn't forward to XHTML2 list
  67. # [15:56] <oedipus> scribe: oedipus
  68. # [15:57] <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
  69. # [15:57] <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus
  70. # [15:57] <oedipus> SP: have to go to CSS lists to read my comments; last exchange with chair was last friday, so if don't hear anything by this friday, will ping them
  71. # [15:57] <oedipus> RM: waiting for official response from CSS working group
  72. # [15:58] <oedipus> SP: mentioned at HTC, but only very briefly
  73. # [15:58] <oedipus> RM: no discussion in minutes
  74. # [15:58] <oedipus> TOPIC: Reviews
  75. # [15:58] <oedipus> RM: XML Base Second Exition
  76. # [15:58] <oedipus> SP: need to review because we reference it
  77. # [15:58] <oedipus> SP: should ensure is still ok for our needs
  78. # [15:59] <oedipus> yam: process for going back to PR
  79. # [16:00] <oedipus> SP: if make normative changes, don't need to go back to LC, if have errata, apply to spec, then proposed edited recommendation; should be NO normative changes -- just clarifications and errata
  80. # [16:00] <oedipus> s/back to PR/to Proposed Edited Rec
  81. # [16:00] <oedipus> SP: can look at XML Base -- what is deadline?
  82. # [16:00] <oedipus> RM: 30 June 2008
  83. # [16:00] * oedipus action sp?
  84. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Topic: CSS Namespaces Module
  85. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Roland: So we now have a formal issue, is that right?
  86. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Steven: Well it turns out that the WG hadn't discussed it, and it was the editors who had decided to reject us
  87. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: ... so we are in limbo still, waiting for a reposnse from CSS WG
  88. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Topic: XML Base
  89. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Roland: So we should review this?
  90. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Steven: Well we do reference it
  91. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Yam: What is a PER?
  92. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Steven: Mostly editorial and errata
  93. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Roland: Who will review?
  94. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: Steven: I am happy to
  95. # [16:01] <Steven> stevenpemberton: ACTION: Steven to review XML Base by 30 June
  96. # [16:01] <Steven> s/Stevenpemberton: //G
  97. # [16:01] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  98. # [16:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  99. # [16:02] <Steven> ACTION: Steven to review XML Base by 30 Juner
  100. # [16:02] * RRSAgent records action 1
  101. # [16:02] <oedipus> scribe: steven
  102. # [16:02] <Steven> s/Juner/June/
  103. # [16:02] <Steven> Topicc: FtF
  104. # [16:02] <Steven> s/cc/c/
  105. # [16:02] <Steven> Shane: I should have the contract finished this week, will post details after that
  106. # [16:02] <Steven> Topic: CURIEs
  107. # [16:03] <Steven> Steven: So the TAG comments came in before I sent the last call
  108. # [16:03] <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JanMar/0014.html
  109. # [16:04] <Steven> Shane: So we need a WG response to these
  110. # [16:05] * Quits: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.194.3) (Ping timeout)
  111. # [16:05] <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/03/27-minutes
  112. # [16:05] <Steven> Shane: The minutes of the meeting where they discussed this are worth reading
  113. # [16:05] <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/03/27-minutes#item02
  114. # [16:07] <Steven> Roland: Are any of their comments no longer valid against the latest draft?
  115. # [16:07] <Steven> SHane: I think so
  116. # [16:07] <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
  117. # [16:08] <Steven> ... for instance a comment about the RDFa spec
  118. # [16:08] <Steven> Steven: Good to see "We agree RDF languages need this ... it shd be allowed to proceed"
  119. # [16:09] * Tina notes that there is a reference to "two HTML WGs", and wonder if someone could clarify off record.
  120. # [16:09] * Joins: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.194.3)
  121. # [16:11] <Steven> Steven: Shall I draft a reply for the group to consider?
  122. # [16:12] <Steven> Roland: I think it should be split into several replies, one on syntax, one on background, requirements, ...
  123. # [16:13] * Steven where is that Tina?
  124. # [16:14] <Tina> Steven: the minutes posted, under issue 35
  125. # [16:15] <Steven> Shane: Some of their issues seem not to be to the point
  126. # [16:15] <Steven> ... or miss something
  127. # [16:15] * Quits: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.194.3) (Ping timeout)
  128. # [16:16] <Steven> Shanhe: Unfortunately this blocks the role module
  129. # [16:16] <Steven> s/he:/e:/
  130. # [16:17] * Steven TIna, that is HTML WG and XHTML2 WG
  131. # [16:18] <Tina> Ah. Thank you.
  132. # [16:18] <Steven> Steven: THey are allowed to be one step out of sync
  133. # [16:18] <Steven> s/TH/Th/
  134. # [16:18] <Steven> ROland: Is role ready to go?
  135. # [16:18] * Joins: markbirbeck (markbirbec@89.240.218.112)
  136. # [16:18] <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
  137. # [16:19] <Steven> SHane: Yes
  138. # [16:19] <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
  139. # [16:19] <Steven> Gregory: We (WAI) arranged a special meeting with HTML5 people to discuss Aria, and no one from HTML5 turned up
  140. # [16:20] <Steven> ... so we are ignoring them for the moment
  141. # [16:20] <Steven> Shane: ANyway, role is ready to go
  142. # [16:20] <Steven> s/AN/An/
  143. # [16:20] <Steven> Roland: Then let's go
  144. # [16:20] <Steven> SHane: We should update the public WD of Curies so we can refer to it
  145. # [16:20] <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
  146. # [16:21] <Steven> RESOLUTION: Produce a new public WD of CURIEs
  147. # [16:22] <Steven> Roland: Take role to last call?
  148. # [16:22] <Steven> [Agreement]
  149. # [16:22] <Steven> RESOLUTION: Take role to last call
  150. # [16:22] <Steven> ACTION: Shane to update public WD of CURIEs
  151. # [16:22] * RRSAgent records action 2
  152. # [16:22] <Steven> ACTION: Steven to organise last call of role
  153. # [16:22] * RRSAgent records action 3
  154. # [16:23] <Steven> ACTION: Steven to draft a reply to TAG comments on CURIEs
  155. # [16:23] * RRSAgent records action 4
  156. # [16:24] <Steven> Roland: We will discuss the comments next week
  157. # [16:24] <Steven> Steven: I will try to attend, but I'll be at a conference
  158. # [16:24] <Steven> Topic: XHTML Basic
  159. # [16:26] <Steven> Steven: I sent a draft transition request to Roland, SHane and Chrtis Lilley, and spotted two editorial bugs in the spec, which should be fixed today
  160. # [16:26] <Steven> ... I'd be happy for an OK on the transition request, and I will send it off
  161. # [16:28] <Steven> Topic: M12N transition
  162. # [16:30] <Steven> Roland: Status?
  163. # [16:30] <Steven> Steven: I have sent a revised transition request with answers to Steve Batt's question to Steve Bratt, and I am awaiting a reply
  164. # [16:30] <Steven> s/Batt/Bratt/
  165. # [16:30] <Steven> Topic: Media type
  166. # [16:31] <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0086.html
  167. # [16:32] <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0071.html
  168. # [16:33] <Steven> Shane: Olivier is asking some questions which we should answer
  169. # [16:33] <Steven> ... I don't think the mime docuemtn should mention HTML5 since there is no normative spec
  170. # [16:33] <Steven> Gregory: THe HTML5 WD has huge wholes
  171. # [16:33] <Steven> s/whole/hole/
  172. # [16:34] <Steven> s/TH/Th/
  173. # [16:34] * Joins: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.194.3)
  174. # [16:34] <Steven> ... and is nowhere near to being complete
  175. # [16:34] <Steven> SHane: Olivier supplies a nugget of useful data
  176. # [16:34] <Steven> ... he asks if the note can be a rec
  177. # [16:35] <Steven> Steven: It briongs information together, it doesn't need to be a rec
  178. # [16:35] <Steven> s/io/i/
  179. # [16:35] <Steven> Shane: He asks if we can make the compatibility guidelines clearer
  180. # [16:35] <Steven> ... I am trying to recast them
  181. # [16:36] <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20080331/
  182. # [16:36] <Steven> Roland: I would like us to have a document that follows the guidelines as an example
  183. # [16:38] <oedipus> q+
  184. # [16:38] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  185. # [16:39] <Steven> Steven: We need to point out that they are guidelines, and not requirements
  186. # [16:39] <oedipus> Steven, were you referring to A.7? -- lang attribute important for natural language switching in speech output and braille output (every DAMN country has its own braille code)
  187. # [16:40] <oedipus> same with screen magnifiers -- need to get the right charset for the lang declaration
  188. # [16:40] * oedipus mission accomplished!
  189. # [16:41] <Steven> OK Oediupus, thanks
  190. # [16:41] <Steven> and do they do xml:lang?
  191. # [16:41] * oedipus hope i answered your question...
  192. # [16:41] <oedipus> some do the xml:lang, such as Orca (screen-reader braille-output for GNOME)
  193. # [16:41] <Steven> Shane: validators do something with @lang
  194. # [16:42] <Steven> ... and I'm not sure what we should do about it
  195. # [16:42] <Steven> ... especially with RDFa
  196. # [16:42] <Steven> ... since XHTML1.1+RDFa does not have @lang, only @xml:lang
  197. # [16:43] <Steven> Steven: The provblem only arises if you are unable to tell the UA the language of the document
  198. # [16:44] <oedipus> GJR: don't have definitive list, but will check on xml:lang support especially in open source community
  199. # [16:44] <Steven> thanks
  200. # [16:44] <oedipus> np
  201. # [16:44] <Steven> q?
  202. # [16:44] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  203. # [16:44] <Steven> ack o
  204. # [16:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  205. # [16:45] <Steven> Shane: THe othjer issue is about referencing style elements
  206. # [16:45] <Steven> Shane: I think we should say not to use stylesheet declarations
  207. # [16:46] <Steven> s/use/use XML /
  208. # [16:46] <oedipus> GJR: commercial assistive tech vendors rely on "lang" because it is far more likely to be present (so they assume) than xml:lang
  209. # [16:48] <Steven> Shane: Shall we keep the recommendation to use XML stylesheets?
  210. # [16:49] <Steven> Steven: I don't think we need to
  211. # [16:49] <Steven> ... anymore
  212. # [16:49] <Zakim> -ShaneM
  213. # [16:49] <Zakim> -Steven
  214. # [16:49] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  215. # [16:49] <Zakim> -alessio
  216. # [16:49] <Zakim> -Roland
  217. # [16:49] <Zakim> -yamx
  218. # [16:49] <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
  219. # [16:49] <Zakim> Attendees were +0138687aaaa, Roland, Steven, ShaneM, alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita, yamx
  220. # [16:49] * Quits: yamx (sample@122.26.1.21) (Quit: CHOCOA)
  221. # [16:49] * oedipus and tina via IRC
  222. # [16:49] <Steven> ... people who want to deliver it as XML know that they are there, but UAs that understand the namespace are going to do the stylesheets anyway
  223. # [16:50] <Steven> Shane: I will update the draft and we can discuss it next week.
  224. # [16:50] <Steven> [ADJOURN]
  225. # [16:50] <Steven> zakim, who is here?
  226. # [16:50] <Zakim> apparently IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended, Steven
  227. # [16:50] <Zakim> On IRC I see oedipus, markbirbeck, myakura, Roland, Lachy, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, CSB, Tina, Steven, krijnh
  228. # [16:50] <Steven> rrsagent, makee minutes
  229. # [16:50] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makee minutes', Steven. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  230. # [16:50] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  231. # [16:50] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  232. # [16:51] <Steven> present+Tina
  233. # [16:51] <Steven> Present+Mark
  234. # [16:51] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  235. # [16:51] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  236. # [16:51] <Steven> s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
  237. # [16:52] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  238. # [16:52] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  239. # [16:52] * Steven curses
  240. # [16:52] * Parts: Steven (Steven_@128.30.52.30)
  241. # [16:53] * Joins: Steven (Steven_@128.30.52.30)
  242. # [16:57] <Steven> s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
  243. # [16:57] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  244. # [16:57] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  245. # [16:58] * Quits: myakura (myakura@122.29.8.215) (Quit: Leaving...)
  246. # [17:03] <Steven> s/stevenpemberton: //G
  247. # [17:03] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  248. # [17:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  249. # [17:04] <Steven> Yay!
  250. # [17:05] <Steven> damned escapes in a substitue patters
  251. # [17:05] <Steven> i/Topic: CSS/Scribe: Steven
  252. # [17:05] <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
  253. # [17:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
  254. # [17:06] * oedipus FYI: PF review of RDFa by Gottried Zimmerman - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008AprJun/0006.html
  255. # [17:06] * oedipus will be discussed at today's PF meeting
  256. # [17:09] <ShaneM> thanks! tell him Thanks and that they comments look great
  257. # [17:09] <oedipus> ok
  258. # [17:10] <oedipus> i was disqualified from doing the review, as i am known to be an ardent advocate of RDFa
  259. # [17:11] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  260. # [17:12] <Steven> lol
  261. # [17:13] <oedipus> there is a ridiculous thread on dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org and the GNOME dev list about mac OS accessibility -- maciej claims that they are moving towards AT-SPI (http://a11y.org/atspi) for mac accessibility, but as for aria it is something in the future not to be discussed now...
  262. # [17:32] * Quits: CSB (christina.@160.79.53.130) (Quit: CSB)
  263. # [18:16] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@88.91.103.11)
  264. # [19:12] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  265. # [19:12] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  266. # [19:12] * Quits: Tina (tina@82.182.24.153) (Quit: leaving)
  267. # [19:12] * Parts: ShaneM (ShaneM@208.42.66.13)
  268. # [19:39] * Quits: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.194.3) (Quit: so long, little dudes! don't learn anything i wouldn't learn!)
  269. # [21:29] * Quits: Steven (Steven_@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  270. # [21:34] * RRSAgent excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  271. # [21:34] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  272. # [23:37] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@88.91.103.11) (Quit: Leaving)
  273. # [23:37] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@88.91.103.11)
  274. # [23:38] * Quits: Roland (Roland@88.108.36.44) (Ping timeout)
  275. # Session Close: Thu Apr 03 00:00:00 2008

The end :)