/irc-logs / w3c / #xhtml / 2008-04-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 16 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #xhtml
  3. # [00:10] * Quits: markbirbeck (markbirbec@89.241.8.177) (Quit: markbirbeck)
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  5. # [10:08] * Attempting to rejoin channel #xhtml
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  7. # [10:08] * Topic is 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0014.html'
  8. # [10:08] * Set by RolandMerrick on Wed Apr 09 14:59:39
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  11. # [10:41] * Rejoined channel #xhtml
  12. # [10:41] * Topic is 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0014.html'
  13. # [10:41] * Set by RolandMerrick on Wed Apr 09 14:59:39
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  17. # [11:10] * Topic is 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0014.html'
  18. # [11:10] * Set by RolandMerrick on Wed Apr 09 14:59:39
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  28. # [15:36] * RolandMerrick changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0043.html'
  29. # [15:36] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  30. # [15:36] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  31. # [15:36] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-irc
  32. # [15:38] <RolandMerrick> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
  33. # [15:38] <Roland> Chair: Roland
  34. # [15:38] <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0043.html
  35. # [15:39] * Quits: RolandMerrick (586c116f@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  36. # [15:39] <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
  37. # [15:39] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
  38. # [15:39] <Roland> rrsagent, make log public
  39. # [15:39] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Roland
  40. # [15:39] * Steven changes location, goes briefly offline
  41. # [15:40] <Roland> Regrets: Shane
  42. # [15:41] <Roland> Zakim, this will be XHTML2
  43. # [15:41] <Zakim> ok, Roland; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
  44. # [15:43] <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
  45. # [15:43] <Zakim> +Roland
  46. # [15:45] <Roland> Regrets: Shane, Yam
  47. # [15:45] <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
  48. # [15:45] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
  49. # [15:46] * Quits: Steven (Steven_@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  50. # [15:49] * Joins: Steven-eee (user@128.30.52.30)
  51. # [15:49] <Steven-eee> zakim, dial steven-617
  52. # [15:49] <Zakim> ok, Steven-eee; the call is being made
  53. # [15:49] <Zakim> +Steven
  54. # [15:49] * Joins: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.198.184)
  55. # [15:49] * Joins: markbirbeck (markbirbec@89.241.8.177)
  56. # [15:50] * oedipus will be calling in slightly late (5 to 10 minutes)
  57. # [15:52] <Zakim> +??P3
  58. # [15:52] * Joins: Steven (Steven_@128.30.52.30)
  59. # [15:52] <Steven> zakim, who is here?
  60. # [15:52] <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, Steven, ??P3
  61. # [15:52] <Zakim> On IRC I see Steven, markbirbeck, oedipus, Steven-eee, RRSAgent, Zakim, Roland, Tina, myakura, Lachy, krijnh
  62. # [15:52] <Steven> zakim, ??P3 is Alessio
  63. # [15:52] <Zakim> +Alessio; got it
  64. # [15:53] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  65. # [15:54] * oedipus welcome back, steven!
  66. # [15:55] * oedipus do you need a scribe?
  67. # [15:55] <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
  68. # [15:55] <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus
  69. # [15:56] <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0043.html
  70. # [15:56] <oedipus> chair: Roland_Merrick
  71. # [15:56] <oedipus> regrets: Shane_McCarron, Yam
  72. # [15:57] <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
  73. # [15:57] <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
  74. # [15:57] <Zakim> +markbirbeck
  75. # [15:58] <oedipus> meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Weekly Telecon
  76. # [15:58] <Steven> Previous minutes: http://www.w3.org/2008/04/09-xhtml-minutes
  77. # [15:58] <oedipus> RM: progress on CSS Namespaces in CSS coordination group -- lin k to wording in post
  78. # [15:58] <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Apr/0037.html
  79. # [15:59] <oedipus> RM: asked to put words in, have been proposed within group, explaination of what happening in CSS; had problem with wording, i said words looked ok to me, but need to get WG ok
  80. # [15:59] <oedipus> Steven: +1
  81. # [15:59] <oedipus> GJR: no problem with adding note - +1
  82. # [16:00] <oedipus> SP: if want standard selectors to work same, but still want to use CSS Namespaces, should use CSS selectors -- could add or stand pat
  83. # [16:01] <oedipus> RM: good usage documents outside of spec - think we got what we asked for
  84. # [16:01] <oedipus> ACTION - Steven: inform CSS CG that XHTML2 WG happy with note
  85. # [16:02] <oedipus> ACTION: Steven - inform CSS CG that XHTML2 WG happy with proposed paragraph
  86. # [16:02] * RRSAgent records action 1
  87. # [16:02] <oedipus> XML Base (Second Edition)
  88. # [16:02] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/PER-xmlbase-20080320/
  89. # [16:03] <oedipus> SP: not finished
  90. # [16:03] <oedipus> TOPIC: Minneapolis Face2Face
  91. # [16:03] <oedipus> XML Base (Second Edition)
  92. # [16:03] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/PER-xmlbase-20080320/
  93. # [16:03] <oedipus> ACTION: Steven - create questionnaire for June 2008 F2F
  94. # [16:03] * RRSAgent records action 2
  95. # [16:04] <oedipus> SP: media-type discussion agenda item request
  96. # [16:04] <oedipus> RM: ok
  97. # [16:04] <oedipus> TOPIC: CURRIEs
  98. # [16:04] <oedipus> RM: TAG review, Steven preparing reply
  99. # [16:04] <oedipus> RM: pointer to note:
  100. # [16:05] <markbirbeck> s/CURRIEs/CURIEs/
  101. # [16:05] <markbirbeck> CURRIEs is a much hotter topic. ;)
  102. # [16:05] <oedipus> SP: only after general points will use Shane's extended verbiage -- that will be separate email
  103. # [16:05] <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0050.html
  104. # [16:05] * oedipus thanks mark - no coffee yet
  105. # [16:05] <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0050.html
  106. # [16:06] <oedipus> SP: 1) TAG said "what precisely is requirement" -- surprised -- Introduction explains that; QNames can't address all URIs, so that's where the need for CURIEs enters
  107. # [16:06] <oedipus> RM: if that is the case, can make more prominent in Introduction
  108. # [16:06] <oedipus> SP: make intro more crisp?
  109. # [16:06] <oedipus> RM: make clearer and more obvious in Intro
  110. # [16:07] <oedipus> MB: been talking with Shane about rewrites of several sections to enhance clarity
  111. # [16:07] <oedipus> SP: will reply to that effect -- crispen intro to make primary req CURIEs intended to address
  112. # [16:09] <oedipus> SP: 2nd point: overlap between CURIEs and QNames - could argue (as i am) that that is a good point, and not a bad point; good for 3 reasonss: 1) specs that use QNames where should be using CURIEs will be able to change datatype, while old content still valued and new content extended; 2) syntax used and easily understood; 3) syntax used in other places as well, so strange to invent a new syntax
  113. # [16:09] <oedipus> SP: not sure whether asking us to add to specification -- would not be open to that (explaining background in spec)
  114. # [16:10] <oedipus> RM: could look at some discussion/observation mentioning comparissons between QNames and CURIEs so not left to reader to interpret
  115. # [16:10] <oedipus> MB: consequence of CURIEs will be that documents will still be valid and extensible
  116. # [16:12] <oedipus> SP: regrettable that there is a clash between QName and CURIEs -- people used to using QName in host of languages; CURIEs only in syntaxic space -- not intended to be sent over wire; that is one of their worries -- CURIEs sent over the wire for processing, as opposed to a URI
  117. # [16:13] <oedipus> MB: at top of comments state some comments based on earlier draft -- some of issues raised had been fixed by the time the draft they ostensively were reviewing
  118. # [16:15] <oedipus> SP: should add "please note that the example to which you refer has already been excised"; don't think we should pussyfoot about this; ok to use CURIEs where URI allowed - represent same document space -- having to expand a pain and author burden; if but safe CURIE in a HREF user going to get a 404; think XHTML WG did right thing -- forward looking
  119. # [16:15] <oedipus> MB: should be clear about CURIEs in RDFa -- syntax that removes ambiguity; haven't demanded that CURIEs be used everywhere URIs used; in RDFa don't allow CURIEs in HREF;
  120. # [16:16] <oedipus> SP: make that a prominent point up front
  121. # [16:17] <markbirbeck> s/should be clear about CURIEs in RDFa/TAG should be clear when referring to CURIEs and when to CURIEs in RDFa/
  122. # [16:17] <oedipus> SP: TAG argue against safe CURIEs -- "consider carefully the use cases" are they really compelling? response: that's why they are in there - had compelling use casses
  123. # [16:17] <oedipus> s/casses/cases
  124. # [16:18] <oedipus> SP: example in comment wrong; all you can use is a valid URI
  125. # [16:18] <oedipus> SP: don't follow last point's reasoning - people can write the wrong thing; already endemic
  126. # [16:18] <markbirbeck> If xxx mapped to:
  127. # [16:18] <markbirbeck> http://www.example.com/feeds/thursday/
  128. # [16:19] <markbirbeck> there would be no problem.
  129. # [16:19] <oedipus> MB: our area of concern is not the URI;
  130. # [16:19] <oedipus> SP: only invalid if try to deference and points to xml document
  131. # [16:20] <oedipus> MB: not invalid URI, just doesn't have effect you want;
  132. # [16:20] <oedipus> SP: entirely up to author to use URIs legally
  133. # [16:20] <oedipus> MB: about=#37b - wouldn't use id=
  134. # [16:20] <markbirbeck> @about="#37b"
  135. # [16:20] <oedipus> s/about="#37b"/@about="#37b"
  136. # [16:21] <oedipus> RM: compelling use cases -- are they documented in RDFa Use Cases? perhaps should be
  137. # [16:21] <oedipus> RM: went through trouble of RDFa Use Cases might as well use it and use language from it
  138. # [16:22] <oedipus> RM: would be in primer -- people need to make use of it
  139. # [16:22] <oedipus> SP: think can deduce from RDFa Use Cases that we need them; doesn't explicitly state it
  140. # [16:23] <oedipus> MB: deduced from use cases documented in RDFa Use Cases -- if want to read, then they can
  141. # [16:23] <oedipus> SP: ok
  142. # [16:23] <oedipus> RM: apart from refinements just dicussed anyone against steven sending this as response?
  143. # [16:24] <oedipus> SP: more thought about response, more i convinced myself what we are doing is absolutely right
  144. # [16:24] <oedipus> [no objections logged]
  145. # [16:24] <oedipus> SP: make changes and recirculate before list before sending to TAG
  146. # [16:24] <oedipus> TOPIC: Mime-Type
  147. # [16:25] <oedipus> SP: since last we spoke, had 2 one and a half hour meetings internally in w3c about this topic
  148. # [16:26] <oedipus> SP: summarize: our position seems to be getting stronger; TBL seemed to lean our way; think we are winning; some problems about shane's new mediatypes doc -- had to repeatedly point out that an in-process draft; complaint that XHTML2 should not define what HTML can do -- only drawing info from specific specs and documentation of what is being done and what one can do
  149. # [16:27] <oedipus> RM: was intended as a note anyway
  150. # [16:27] <oedipus> SP: right; have to make sure that understood that this isn't a spec or new reqs, but that a documentation of what exists
  151. # [16:29] <oedipus> SP: had to defend Appendix C -- at least 1 person upset that XHTML 1.0 can be sent as text/html as long as follow appendix C - section that refers to Appendix C is normative, but Appendix C is informative -- could cause confusion was the complaint -- suggested that that suggestion be submitted to list; like idea of issuing new edition of XHTML 1.0 -- good way to clarify misconceptions and firmly stake our ground
  152. # [16:29] <oedipus> SP: believe that TBL going to address this at either the AC meeting or the conference in Beijing next week
  153. # [16:30] <oedipus> RM: reason started this work was to help people writing XHTML and want to make sure will be rendered appropriately that don't know anything about application/xml -- just attempting to make clear what one should do if sending as text/html rather than application/xml
  154. # [16:31] <oedipus> SP: been stated that "no one uses XHTML" because being sent by text/html
  155. # [16:31] <oedipus> SP: TBL surprised to hear no one used XHTML; more than 50% of top 20 web sites using XHTML
  156. # [16:32] * Tina would like to point out that 'using XHTML' would be amisnomer when the XML parser isn't involved ...
  157. # [16:32] <oedipus> MB: whole argument that datatype being delivered determines a language is a load; SHOULD pretty strong
  158. # [16:33] <oedipus> SP: if create, run through validator but deliver to IE as text/html, not author's intent
  159. # [16:33] <oedipus> SP: assumed that UAs would switch on to new mediatype
  160. # [16:33] <oedipus> MB: hope we learned our lesson
  161. # [16:34] <oedipus> SP: why not use text/html -- upcry from XML community -- worried that that would "dirty" XML; HTML functionality turning up in XML; IE uses class solely to drive stylesheets, reason why didn't want us to use text/html; long discussions in IETF on this
  162. # [16:35] <oedipus> MB: more general point - 2 worlds of XML; 1 where can have any document interpreted by schema; but in realworld actually very little ambiguities; pure XML world has a lot of baggage as does HTML world;
  163. # [16:36] <oedipus> SP: difficult to spot in advance these types of issues; had no clue would be so difficult to get new media type into a browser
  164. # [16:36] <markbirbeck> Tina...XML parsers are used to generate the XHTML, don't necessarily need to be used to consume it.
  165. # [16:37] <oedipus> RM: 1) want to create XML with knowledge that may be served as XHTML or HTML; 2) what do we need to do - don't need to change our specs - already say SHOULD
  166. # [16:37] <oedipus> SP: current plan to republish media note best can do for time being
  167. # [16:37] <oedipus> RM: ok
  168. # [16:37] <oedipus> GJR: plus 1 to SP
  169. # [16:38] <oedipus> SP: think this is a battle that we are winning; TBL talking about how to get people to move towards well-formed content; in harmony with our underlying principles
  170. # [16:38] <Tina> markbirbeck: then it might be best to transform the XML content to HTML before sending it to the client, to keep things simple.
  171. # [16:38] <oedipus> TOPIC: Status of Documents
  172. # [16:38] <oedipus> RM: M12n request
  173. # [16:39] <oedipus> SP: steveB travelling to beijing -- haven't had a reply yet
  174. # [16:39] <markbirbeck> Tina: How is adding an extra step simpler than not adding an extra step? :)
  175. # [16:39] <oedipus> SP: just re-checked email - no sent transition request 1 april 2008
  176. # [16:39] <oedipus> RM: same with XHTML Basic?
  177. # [16:40] <oedipus> SP: yes
  178. # [16:40] <Tina> markbirbeck: quite easy. Today developers are sending entirely broken XHTML to clients, as text/html, thinking they use "well-formed XML". If we want 'well-formed content' on the clients, we either need to state clearly that XHTML *MUST* be sent with the proper media type, or accept that the work has to be done on the server.
  179. # [16:40] <oedipus> SP: SteveB convinced there is connection btw M12n and Basic; i and chris lilley have been trying to disabuse him of that
  180. # [16:41] <oedipus> SP: will also ping chris lilley to see if he has heard anything more?
  181. # [16:41] <oedipus> TOPIC: Access Module
  182. # [16:41] <oedipus> RM: sitting around for a while; said would go to last call -- issues?
  183. # [16:42] <oedipus> GJR: posted 2 issues on Access
  184. # [16:42] <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0044.html
  185. # [16:42] <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0045.html
  186. # [16:42] <markbirbeck> Tina: Really? Are you seeing lots of broken mark-up?
  187. # [16:42] <markbirbeck> (Broken XML, I mean.)
  188. # [16:44] <Tina> markbirbeck: I see a huge amount of xhtml-doctype-sent-as-html which wouldn't pass muster as HTML 3.2, much less XHTML.
  189. # [16:45] <markbirbeck> Tina: But you still have to ask...so what? We don't gain anything by insisting that they send the data as application/xhtml+xml, and then have browser reject it. What's the point of that?
  190. # [16:47] <Zakim> -markbirbeck
  191. # [16:47] <Zakim> -Steven
  192. # [16:47] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  193. # [16:47] <Zakim> -Alessio
  194. # [16:47] <Zakim> -Roland
  195. # [16:47] <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
  196. # [16:47] <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, Steven, Alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita, markbirbeck
  197. # [16:47] <Tina> markbirbeck: do we gain any terrain for well-formed XML - on the client - by allowing XHTML to be sent with a content-type which does nothing to enforce those well-formedness rules?
  198. # [16:47] <oedipus> GJR: only must activate be boolean? issue needs vetting, will address at both PF today and UA meeting thursday; don't forsee a major hold up
  199. # [16:47] <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes
  200. # [16:47] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  201. # [16:48] <oedipus> zakim, please part
  202. # [16:48] <Steven> I see no reason why text/html shouldn't be able to require wellformedness if the content is clearly XHTML
  203. # [16:48] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  204. # [16:48] <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes
  205. # [16:48] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  206. # [16:48] <oedipus> present: Tina_via_IRC
  207. # [16:48] <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes
  208. # [16:48] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  209. # [16:49] <oedipus> present+ Roland_Merrick, Steven_Pemberton, Alessio_Cartocci, Gregory_Rosmaita, Mark_Birbeck
  210. # [16:49] <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes
  211. # [16:49] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  212. # [16:50] <markbirbeck> Tina: I don't really understand that point. Browsers have traditionally been pieces of software that allow people to read interesting things, buy music, book holidays, etc...why should they also be tasked with promoting and popularising XML by acting like a policeman or censor? (I.e., preventing people from interacting with any document that doesn't pass some test.) That's not the way the web has worked 'till now.
  213. # [16:50] <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes
  214. # [16:50] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  215. # [16:51] <markbirbeck> Tina: There are other tools to aid validation, the browser is really not a good one, especially when it's being used by an end-user; what does 'this is invalid XML' mean to them?
  216. # [16:52] <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes
  217. # [16:52] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  218. # [16:52] <Tina> markbirbeck: nothing much. But if the point is to "move towards well-formed content", then allowing a *stricter* - theoretically - language to be sent as, to put it bluntly, crap doesn't really help much.
  219. # [16:53] <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes
  220. # [16:53] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  221. # [16:53] * oedipus waiting to get the entire exchange between Mark and Tina before finalizing minutes - should be part of minutes, not just IRC log, IMO
  222. # [16:53] <markbirbeck> Tina: I don't see "move towards well-formed content" as a goal in and of itself, though. It seems like a bad goal if it achieves "can't view this web-site".
  223. # [16:53] <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes
  224. # [16:53] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  225. # [16:54] <Tina> markbirbeck: nor do I, but it would appear that /is/ considered an important goal.
  226. # [16:54] <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes
  227. # [16:54] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  228. # [16:54] <markbirbeck> Tina: By whom?
  229. # [16:54] <Tina> markbirbeck: TBL, it would appear.
  230. # [16:54] <markbirbeck> Tina: I'm not sure you are right, there. :)
  231. # [16:55] <Tina> markbirbeck: just quoting.
  232. # [16:55] <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes
  233. # [16:55] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
  234. # [16:55] <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
  235. # [16:55] <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-actions.rdf :
  236. # [16:55] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven - inform CSS CG that XHTML2 WG happy with proposed paragraph [1]
  237. # [16:55] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-irc#T13-59-39
  238. # [16:55] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven - create questionnaire for June 2008 F2F [2]
  239. # [16:55] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-xhtml-irc#T14-00-49
  240. # [16:55] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  241. # [16:55] <Tina> markbirbeck: unless, of course, the quote above was incorrect. I can't say. I /do/ disagree with allowing XHTML to be sent as text/html.
  242. # [16:56] <markbirbeck> Tina: You'd also have to be more specific about where exactly it is important that well-formed content appears in the pipeline form data through server, to browser.
  243. # [16:57] * Quits: markbirbeck (markbirbec@89.241.8.177) (Client exited)
  244. # [16:58] <Tina> markbirbeck: that would be helpful, yes. If we /are/ going to "move towards" such a goal, as TBL was quoted talking about, then it needs to be far more precisely defined.
  245. # [16:58] * Joins: markbirbeck (markbirbec@89.241.8.177)
  246. # [17:00] <Tina> markbirbeck: that would be helpful, yes. If we /are/ going to "move towards" such a goal, as TBL was quoted talking about, then it needs to be far more precisely defined.
  247. # [17:04] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  248. # [17:14] * Quits: markbirbeck (markbirbec@89.241.8.177) (Quit: markbirbeck)
  249. # [17:15] * Quits: Tina (tina@82.182.24.153) (Quit: leaving)
  250. # [17:16] * Joins: markbirbeck (markbirbec@89.241.8.177)
  251. # [17:31] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@88.91.106.102)
  252. # [18:17] * Quits: myakura (myakura@122.29.8.215) (Quit: Leaving...)
  253. # [18:20] * Quits: markbirbeck (markbirbec@89.241.8.177) (Quit: markbirbeck)
  254. # [19:15] * oedipus is now known as oedipus[away]
  255. # [19:15] <oedipus[away]> I am now away. Reason: "do i really need a reason?" E-mail: not specified Left At: Wednesday 16 April 2008 - 1:12 PM (tIRC away system)
  256. # [22:43] * Parts: Steven-eee (user@128.30.52.30)
  257. # Session Close: Thu Apr 17 00:00:00 2008

The end :)