/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-01-05 / end
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- # Session Start: Thu Jan 05 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
- # [00:02] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: is unsigned short a type in xpidl?
- # [00:03] <@tbsaunde> if so would you mind the filter func returning one instead of a short?
- # [00:03] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, sure, i could do that
- # [00:03] <@tbsaunde> thx
- # [00:09] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: also, why is nsTObserverArray<nsCOMPtr<nsIAccessiblePivotObserver> > incompatable with the macro?
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- # [00:13] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, because the macro tries to create an enumerator with the wrong type, it does _type*
- # [00:16] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: oh :(
- # [00:16] <@tbsaunde> it might be worth fixing that
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- # [01:17] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com cancelled review? for attachment 585591 on bug 714976.
- # [01:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714976 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [mac] the Role description for the web content is AXWebArea instead of "HTML Content"
- # [01:24] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 585932 on bug 714976.
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- # [02:45] <@tbsaunde> hub: since the role description should always be localized according to the doc wouldn't it be better to generalize that?
- # [02:46] <@hub> for the other, we get it from the OS
- # [02:46] <@hub> I might have more exceptions, though
- # [02:47] <@tbsaunde> does the toolkit localize it, or just not use the role description?
- # [02:47] <@hub> it returns the localized role description
- # [02:48] <@hub> just that these are not dealt with by the OS it seems
- # [02:48] <@tbsaunde> ... welp
- # [02:50] <@tbsaunde> what about the caching thing, do you have data show we need to cache that?
- # [02:50] <@tbsaunde> it doesn't seem totally insain, but I'd rather not do it unless we need to
- # [02:52] <@hub> most of the caching is done
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- # [02:53] <@tbsaunde> what do you mean by that?
- # [02:58] <@hub> oh sorry, I misunderstood
- # [02:58] <@hub> which caching are you talking about?
- # [03:00] <@tbsaunde> caching the translated string
- # [03:04] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [03:06] <@hub> tbsaunde: well, it is static. Or are we supposed be able to switch the displayed language?
- # [03:06] <@hub> ok, gotta go now.
- # [03:06] <@hub> I'll be back online in a bit
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- # [03:29] <@tbsaunde> hub: so, I have a theory which is that if it knows the role it deals with l1on for you if it doesn't it uses the role description
- # [03:30] <@tbsaunde> and, when I look I see a couple other places we don't use a system role just because it was 10.4+ and we should just get rid of those
- # [03:30] <@tbsaunde> but I think this might be the only exception unless we decide the system role doesn't work for something sometime
- # [03:37] <@hub> tbsaunde: I'll verify them. For example I'm now handling ROLE_HEADING as a different special case.
- # [03:38] <@hub> but not for the role description
- # [03:38] <@tbsaunde> hub: interesting, can I see what that looks like?
- # [03:39] <@hub> it is bug 712923
- # [03:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
- # [03:40] <@hub> basically what I do is I try to provide the same info as Safari
- # [03:41] <@tbsaunde> hub: sure, do you have a copy of webkit around? I'm grabbing one and hopping there a11y stuff is public
- # [03:42] <@hub> I don't, but I should check one out
- # [03:42] <@hub> I was using Google Codesearch so far
- # [03:42] <@hub> good chunk of their a11y is public
- # [03:42] <@tbsaunde> hub: that seems like a reasonable strategy, but I want to avoid a pile of one off hacks :)
- # [03:43] <@hub> I use the accessibility inspector to peek at the values
- # [03:43] <@hub> much easier.
- # [03:44] <@tbsaunde> yeah, but I don't have machine running osx handy
- # [03:44] <@tbsaunde> so I'm doing what I can
- # [03:44] <@hub> yeah I know
- # [03:45] <@hub> I was just saying
- # [03:45] <@tbsaunde> sure, its fine
- # [03:45] <@tbsaunde> and I could boot it, but then I wouldn't have a linux machine handy
- # [03:45] <@tbsaunde> what does webkit do for headings?
- # [03:48] <@hub> the set the Role to AXHeading and the value to the level.
- # [03:48] <@hub> so all I need is to change the RoleMap for this role
- # [03:48] <@tbsaunde> yeah
- # [03:49] <@tbsaunde> I gues I misunderstood then, because I thought you were saying we needed to add an exception
- # [03:49] <@hub> I need to change the method for "value"
- # [03:49] <@hub> but that's not a big problem
- # [03:49] <@tbsaunde> yeah
- # [03:49] <@hub> I don't know about the role description if it is correct yet
- # [03:50] <@tbsaunde> well, if the role is provided by the toolkit I'd expect they localize it
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- # [04:19] <@tbsaunde> ok, so as far as I can tell ebkit is pretty weird
- # [04:19] <@tbsaunde> *wbkit
- # [04:20] <@tbsaunde> but I think they localize a lot themselves, though I don't know why
- # [04:22] <@tbsaunde> hub: ^ might interest you
- # [04:22] <@hub> possibly the stuff for which the API does not know about
- # [04:23] <@hub> like we'll have to do
- # [04:25] <@tbsaunde> yeah, maybe a lot of it looks like its ARIA stuff though I''d think they could of fited some in or just added it to there api :p
- # [04:39] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 585932 on bug 714976.
- # [04:39] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested feedback from l10n@mozilla.com for attachment 585932 on bug 714976.
- # [04:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714976 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [mac] the Role description for the web content is AXWebArea instead of "HTML Content"
- # [04:44] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # [07:38] <@firebot> santiago.gimeno@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 584787 on bug 713792.
- # [07:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713792 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, stop QueryInterface()ing to nsIAccessibleImage internally
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- # [07:49] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 713129 filed by brandon.beaumia@gmail.com.
- # [07:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713129 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, ⇧↑ Shift + Up in the awesomebar highlights bottom result rather than inputted text
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- # [13:08] <askalski> hi everyone
- # [13:08] <askalski> I'm setting OpenVPN for Mountain View office
- # [13:08] <askalski> can anyone tell me what is gateway name?
- # [13:08] <askalski> I mean what is I should write in configuration in "gateway" field to connect with MV office
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- # [13:17] <askalski> hi, anyone here?
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- # [14:22] <@firebot> santiago.gimeno@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 586044 on bug 713792.
- # [14:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713792 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, stop QueryInterface()ing to nsIAccessibleImage internally
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- # [14:41] <askalski> hi everybody
- # [14:41] <askalski> can someone help me with setting OpenVPN?
- # [14:41] <askalski> I think that the problem is trivial
- # [14:42] <askalski> but it's hard to find linux users
- # [14:54] <@MarcoZ> askalski: tbsaunde or eeejay come to mind. I, unfortunately, can only speak for Windows, and only partially since I also need help each time I try to set this thing up. :)
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- # [14:59] <askalski> MarcoZ: thx, I found a developer who has a build environment quite similar to what I want, he helped me with Eclipse and OpenVPN already
- # [15:00] <@MarcoZ> askalski: Fantastic!
- # [15:01] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
- # [15:02] <askalski> davidb: hi!, I spoke with Alex, and numerous other people from Moz, still setting up and learning :)
- # [15:03] <askalski> davidb, : btw, we have some issues with .mozconfig you sent me, it fails to build, I guess some prequisites aren't met. I guess I'll experiment a bit with eclipse first if you don't mind, I think that graphic debugger will help me a lot to understand execution flow
- # [15:04] <@davidb> hi all!
- # [15:05] <@davidb> askalski: you've probably seen this https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Eclipse
- # [15:06] <@davidb> glad you connected with Alexander
- # [15:08] <askalski> just started to dig in it
- # [15:08] <askalski> the guy sent me the link
- # [15:09] <askalski> but I'm multitasking so I haven't went through it yet
- # [15:10] <@davidb> all progress is good
- # [15:10] <askalski> davidb, : btw I got the serial number and the signatures (on pdf) so pretty much all I asked
- # [15:10] <@davidb> excellent
- # [15:10] <askalski> davidb, : so there's a lot of progress today :)
- # [15:10] <@davidb> heheh
- # [15:11] <askalski> davidb, : I just wonder if it's possible to attach this alternative compiler to eclipse CDT, and is it worth pursuing, because I will save some compile time, and loose some hours configuring
- # [15:11] <askalski> davidb, : so I guess I'll live it on a 2do list for later
- # [15:12] <askalski> davidb, : because to my experience configuring eclipse is harder than configuring entire gentoo from stage 1...
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- # [15:12] <Stevef> morning all
- # [15:13] <@davidb> hi Stevef!
- # [15:13] <Stevef> davidb: do the html5 audio/video controls work with JAWS , I am having trouble
- # [15:14] <@davidb> askalski: leaving it as a side project could work
- # [15:14] <@davidb> Stevef: MarcoZ is your man
- # [15:14] <@davidb> I wonder if this is why Gijs tweeted me about generated content
- # [15:14] <Stevef> working on a new year update of html5accessibility.com and checking friefox implementaions
- # [15:14] <@davidb> cool
- # [15:15] <Stevef> MarcoZ:do the html5 audio/video controls work with JAWS? I am having trouble, using JAWS 12.
- # [15:15] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: I evangelized with them to implement support since we started exposing the controls in Firefox 3.5, but to be honest I haven't checked back with JAWS to see if they actually do anything with the exposed controls.
- # [15:15] <Stevef> right OK, will check JAWS 13, and ask rich
- # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: Since they do not only rely on the a11y tree, but do stuff with our older iSimpleDOM stuff, too, they explicitly need to act on these controls. This is similar to the times when they would simply ditch anything that was included in a <header/> tag.
- # [15:17] <@davidb> Stevef, MarcoZ NVDA still sees them right?
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- # [15:18] <Stevef> MarcoZ, Davidb: so would you say that firfox has a complete acc implementation for audio/video?
- # [15:18] <Stevef> davidb: is there any talk about making the visible UI controls actually usable with the keyboard?
- # [15:18] <@davidb> http://mindforks.blogspot.com/2009/09/keyboard-control-of-html5-video.html
- # [15:19] <@tbsaunde> is davidb on anther clang kick :-P
- # [15:19] <@davidb> Stevef: nothing recent
- # [15:19] <@davidb> Stevef: but our Ux people have moved about since then
- # [15:19] <@davidb> Stevef: what do users want?
- # [15:20] <@davidb> also - that is a lot of spam comments!
- # [15:20] <@tbsaunde> askalski: sorry can't help, I never bothered setting open vpn, I just ssh to office.mtv1.m.c then from there to where ever I need to ssh which is anoying but not that bad
- # [15:20] <@davidb> askalski: i have used vpn
- # [15:20] <Stevef> davidb: seems like the only way to provide accessible controls for a range of users is via custom controls - example: http://terrillthompson.com/tests/html5-audio.html
- # [15:21] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: Yes, NVDA sees them. I'm using them on Youtube every day since I have webm enabled there.
- # [15:21] <askalski> tbsaunde, : I never thought of it, seems like an easier solution than what I've been through this morning :)
- # [15:21] <Stevef> MarcoZ: cool thanks
- # [15:22] <Stevef> won't mention high contrast support... :-)
- # [15:22] <@davidb> hhaa
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- # [15:29] <@firebot> l10n@mozilla.com granted feedback for attachment 585932 on bug 714976.
- # [15:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714976 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [mac] the Role description for the web content is AXWebArea instead of "HTML Content"
- # [15:31] <@MarcoZ> Yay
- # [15:33] * @MarcoZ is re-doing his Windows on the MacBook again. Aparently Windows doesn't take kindly to be started in turn from both Bootcamp AND from inside VMware Fusion. So it'll be a pure Mac OS install with a Windows VM instead of Bootcamp.
- # [15:33] <@davidb> MarcoZ: how much RAM you have?
- # [15:38] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you nocturnal again?
- # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> davidb: 8 GB.
- # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And an SSD.
- # [15:39] <@davidb> perfecto
- # [15:39] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no? why?
- # [15:40] <@davidb> oh right, Pittsburgh
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- # [15:41] <@davidb> *facepalm*
- # [15:41] <@tbsaunde> hah
- # [15:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes, this is the beauty we bought for me for work last year in March, and we were forward-thinking and ordered it with 8 GB straight away.
- # [15:44] * @davidb nods
- # [15:45] <@davidb> no point messing around
- # [16:05] <richardschwerdtfeger> any progress in adding landmark support
- # [16:09] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: there was a questions pending we need for Ux design
- # [16:10] <richardschwerdtfeger> what is that?
- # [16:10] <@davidb> i sec
- # [16:11] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: Matt wants a dialog available from both the menu and the toolbar. This is very much against the movement towards making our UI less noisy.
- # [16:12] <@davidb> I recall needing to know if the target user is primarily a screen reader user, or if this is something we need to design for all.
- # [16:13] <@davidb> The latter would be nice but we have to solve the UI requirement.
- # [16:13] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: bug 676549
- # [16:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=676549 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Add keyboard shortcuts for jumping to landmarks
- # [16:13] <richardschwerdtfeger> this is also for mobility impaired users. You could bring up the dialog with an accelerator vs the toolbar
- # [16:14] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: if we are to choose a shortcut, we need to cross reference http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/Keyboard%20shortcuts and the screen reader shortcuts etc
- # [16:14] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: if you can find me a shortcut, i'll add it.
- # [16:14] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
- # [16:16] <@davidb> oh hmm bug 670928
- # [16:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, WAI-ARIA landmark roles not accessible directly in Firefox
- # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> richardschwerdtfeger: Note that most, if not all screen readers, probably won't need this since they implement their own landmark navigation.
- # [16:17] <@davidb> MarcoZ: good point.
- # [16:17] <@davidb> I wonder if Jon finished his tool http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.accessibility/browse_thread/thread/d4254c5c05f4bc24?pli=1
- # [16:17] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: are you in touch with Jon these days?
- # [16:18] <richardschwerdtfeger> right. this is needed when no AT is available.
- # [16:18] <@davidb> oh!
- # [16:18] <@davidb> maybe we could add this to the type ahead find bar
- # [16:18] <richardschwerdtfeger> that would be real cool
- # [16:19] <richardschwerdtfeger> never though of that
- # [16:19] <richardschwerdtfeger> thought
- # [16:19] <@davidb> seems like it could be a way forward
- # [16:20] <richardschwerdtfeger> sounds like a fantastic idea anyway.
- # [16:21] <@davidb> we'll find out
- # [16:23] <@MarcoZ> Yeah sounds cool!
- # [16:25] <@davidb> hmmm margaret doesn't seem to hang in our channel anymore… i think she is mobile front-end now
- # [16:25] <@davidb> gavin: ping
- # [16:26] * @davidb asks in #fx-team
- # [16:27] <Stevef> main use case for keyboard landmark support is for keyboard only users who are NOT AT users
- # [16:28] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Who can we best ping about bug 653226 and bug 653230? These seem to be Toolkit/XUL widget bugs rather than FX-specific ones, but need attention.
- # [16:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653226 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Improve keyboard accessibility of type="menu-button" buttons
- # [16:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653230 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Panel unexpectedly receives focus when noautofocus="true"
- # [16:29] <@davidb> Stevef: yeah, I recall now, and Rich reminded me too :)
- # [16:30] <@davidb> MarcoZ: we can raise them as priorities to the FF team
- # [16:30] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I feel we've kept our users working around these bugs long enough, really! These are regressions introduced in FF4, and from users' point of view they ARE usability regressions.
- # [16:30] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: one of the neils?
- # [16:31] <Stevef> would be GREAT to get keyboard landmark support in firefox!
- # [16:31] * @davidb nods
- # [16:31] <@davidb> tbsaunde: enn is cc'ed
- # [16:31] * @tbsaunde was never really bothered by the door hanger ui, its a little silly as is, but shrug
- # [16:32] <@davidb> MarcoZ: would you be the right one to answer Enn's hanging question on bug 653230?
- # [16:32] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, MarcoZ can poke more diretly if he wants :)
- # [16:32] <@davidb> tbsaunde: true that.
- # [16:38] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I hope this reply helps enn understand the bug better.
- # [16:39] <@davidb> should
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- # [17:20] <gavin> davidb: pong
- # [17:20] <@davidb> gavin: good morning
- # [17:20] <@davidb> gavin: was going to ask for suggestions on how to get progress on bug 653226 and bug 653230
- # [17:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653226 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Improve keyboard accessibility of type="menu-button" buttons
- # [17:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653230 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Panel unexpectedly receives focus when noautofocus="true"
- # [17:20] <@davidb> but probably MarcoZ's answer to Enn will help
- # [17:22] <@davidb> gavin: also, can you help askalski with removing a bugzilla account?
- # [17:23] <@davidb> i don't seem to have that power
- # [17:25] <gavin> why does it need to be removed?
- # [17:26] <askalski> I have registered second time after I trying to remind a password attached to my e-mail
- # [17:27] <askalski> because I forgot that the day I registered I haven't had the @mozilla e-mail account
- # [17:28] <gavin> you can file a bug under bugzilla.mozilla.org::administration and request that they merge the accounts
- # [17:28] <askalski> OK
- # [17:28] <@davidb> thanks gavin
- # [17:30] <askalski> gavin: how to get to ::administration?
- # [17:30] <askalski> gavin, : while I try to post a bug it asks me for a product
- # [17:31] <gavin> the product is bugzilla.mozilla.org
- # [17:31] <gavin> the component is "adminstration"
- # [17:37] <askalski> gavin: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Bugzilla , right?
- # [17:38] <gavin> no
- # [17:38] <gavin> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=bugzilla.mozilla.org
- # [17:39] <askalski> gavin, : thanks, that was close :)
- # [17:39] <askalski> gavin, : component description triggered suspicion
- # [17:43] <askalski> gavin, davidb: thanks for help
- # [17:43] <gavin> np
- # [17:43] * @davidb nods
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- # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> gavin: Just replied to you in bug 653230.
- # [18:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653230 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Panel unexpectedly receives focus when noautofocus="true"
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- # [18:38] <Stevef> HTML Canvas 2D Context Extensions
- # [18:38] <Stevef> http://dev.w3.org/html5/canvas-extensions/Overview.html
- # [18:41] <Stevef> sorry wrong window
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- # [20:10] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: you've got me thinking about harleys
- # [20:11] * @davidb shakes out of it
- # [20:11] <richardschwerdtfeger> :-)
- # [20:12] <richardschwerdtfeger> that is about all I will do for the next couple of months
- # [20:12] <richardschwerdtfeger> think about them
- # [20:14] <@davidb> awwww. sad.
- # [20:15] <@davidb> that is something I wouldn't want to do… ride a harley with one good arm
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- # [20:19] <richardschwerdtfeger> :-)
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- # [22:13] <@davidb> victorporof: is it possible to use tilt to snag that flashing cursor in this demo? http://ajaxorg.github.com/ace/build/kitchen-sink.html
- # [22:13] <@davidb> (in inspect 3d mode)
- # [22:15] <victorporof> davidb: you mean select? i think so
- # [22:15] <victorporof> i was able to click it :)
- # [22:15] <@davidb> yes
- # [22:15] <@davidb> yeah?
- # [22:15] <@davidb> victorporof: what is it?
- # [22:15] <@davidb> can i zoom in via tilt?
- # [22:15] <victorporof> a div
- # [22:15] <@davidb> victorporof: ok, it doesn't move around in the DOM right? just floats?
- # [22:15] <victorporof> div.ace_cursor.ace_hidden in th breadcrumbs
- # [22:15] <@davidb> how did you click it?
- # [22:16] <victorporof> it seems a float
- # [22:16] <victorporof> i... clicked
- # [22:16] <victorporof> from the bottom
- # [22:17] <victorporof> so the problem it's inside that ace_line div
- # [22:17] <victorporof> and it has the same height. how wonderful
- # [22:20] <@davidb> victorporof: thanks
- # [22:20] <@davidb> tilt is amazing
- # [22:20] <victorporof> amazingly bad at this thing apparently
- # [22:20] <victorporof> hmm...
- # [22:20] * victorporof thinks at stuff
- # [22:21] <@davidb> victorporof: would be nice to zap nodes
- # [22:22] <@davidb> click to destroy
- # [22:22] <victorporof> noted
- # [22:22] <@davidb> heheh
- # [22:22] <@davidb> victorporof: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/destroy-the-web/
- # [22:23] <victorporof> hah that's cool
- # [22:25] <@davidb> victorporof: so i want the combo :)
- # [22:25] <victorporof> file a bug!
- # [22:25] <@davidb> fine
- # [22:25] <@davidb> victorporof: what is your component?
- # [22:25] <victorporof> Developer Tools: Inspector
- # [22:26] <@davidb> alrighty
- # [22:27] <victorporof> thanks!
- # [22:31] <@davidb> victorporof: bug 715647
- # [22:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=715647 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, I want to be able to remove nodes from the Tilt view
- # [22:32] <victorporof> awesome!
- # [22:38] <@davidb> ciao all!
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- # [23:50] <@firebot> neil@httl.net denied superreview for attachment 585550 on bug 698823.
- # [23:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
- # Session Close: Fri Jan 06 00:00:00 2012
The end :)