/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2015-04-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 01 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  20. # [02:10] <joanie> drat no surkov
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  60. # [11:16] <@firebot> slyu@mozilla.com requested needinfo from eitan@monotonous.org on bug 1086545.
  61. # [11:16] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1086545 — NEW, eitan@monotonous.org — [AccessFu] Speech sometimes gets interrupted when swiping and it is supposed to speak the newly focu
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  78. # [13:16] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com requested needinfo from jamie@nvaccess.org on bug 646484.
  79. # [13:16] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/646484 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Support IA2 on 64 bit Windows
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  114. # [15:03] <~davidb> heyo
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  129. # [15:41] <~davidb> surkov, want to do the approval request comment? (bug 1147646)
  130. # [15:41] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1147646 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — Crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::ProcessContentInserted while stability testing
  131. # [15:41] <@surkov> davidb: I could
  132. # [15:41] <~davidb> ok cool
  133. # [15:42] <~davidb> surkov, BTW do you think we should assert (perhaps in follow up patch)?
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  136. # [15:42] <@surkov> probably not because it means the container was removed from DOM, it seems nothign prevents it from that
  137. # [15:46] <tbsaunde> surkov: and it somehow makes sense layout would call ContentRangeInserted for something that has been removed?
  138. # [15:46] <tbsaunde> and I don't see how you know that's why its null
  139. # [15:47] <@surkov> I guess removal happens after insertion
  140. # [15:47] <~davidb> we never got this in a debugger AFAIK
  141. # [15:47] <tbsaunde> yeah, only a stack as far as I'm aware
  142. # [15:48] <~davidb> yeah
  143. # [15:49] <~davidb> it could be worth reviewing the code around layout calling us etc
  144. # [15:50] <tbsaunde> davidb: maybe, though kind of seems hard compared to adding asserts and waiting for someone to find a test case
  145. # [15:50] <~davidb> or rr and catch a null container
  146. # [15:52] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(dbolter@mozilla.com) on bug 1147646.
  147. # [15:52] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1147646 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — Crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::ProcessContentInserted while stability testing
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  150. # [16:46] <~davidb> joanie, role=presentation on a table removes the semantics from the table structure elements... there is a an example here https://w3c.github.io/aria-in-html/#use-of-role-presentation
  151. # [16:47] <joanie> davidb: I know it removes the semantics
  152. # [16:48] <~davidb> joanie, i think "propagation of presentation inheritance" is a confusing phrase
  153. # [16:48] <joanie> with that knowledge in mind
  154. # [16:48] <joanie> and as clown stated
  155. # [16:48] <joanie> if you put role="presentation" or role="none" on the table or grid
  156. # [16:48] <joanie> it is no longer a table or grid
  157. # [16:48] <joanie> and thus putting role="rowgroup" on a descendant element is trumped by the presentational role
  158. # [16:49] <joanie> so why would one put role="rowgroup" on a descendant element of a presentational table?
  159. # [16:49] <~davidb> ok yeah i have no comment on the use case
  160. # [16:49] <joanie> the note hints (in unclear language) that this is one of the reasons we have the rowgroup role
  161. # [16:50] <joanie> propagation in a presentational table
  162. # [16:50] <joanie> so... propagation of what and why?
  163. # [16:50] <joanie> :)
  164. # [16:50] * ~davidb shrugs
  165. # [16:50] <joanie> bingo
  166. # [16:50] <joanie> :)
  167. # [16:50] <~davidb> :)
  168. # [16:50] <~davidb> and remember, i'm always in the background chanting KISS
  169. # [16:50] <~davidb> FWIW
  170. # [16:50] <joanie> yeah
  171. # [16:51] <joanie> the more I work on these new non-interactive table roles, the more I think, "svg (and whatever else) should just get freaking native table elements"
  172. # [16:51] <joanie> :)
  173. # [16:51] <joanie> encouraging others to create tables out of divs and spans and chickenwire seems like a not-good idea
  174. # [16:52] <joanie> or rather an idea which might solve a need, but is likely to be fragile
  175. # [16:52] <joanie> and complicated to create and implement
  176. # [16:52] <joanie> in other news, the spec doesn't prescribe the order of owned elements when you have more than one
  177. # [16:53] <joanie> if others don't use their heads (and pay attention), I suspect there's a chance we could wind up with some pretty broken grids
  178. # [16:53] <joanie> more than just the basic simple one which is already broken across multiple user agents and platforms
  179. # [17:03] <~davidb> joanie, it sort of sounds like what some people want to be able to do is to 1:1 map html element tagname to role value for things like SVG. i don't immediately know if that is a terrible idea, but it would bring along html's bad with the good.
  180. # [17:04] <~davidb> so the html semantics have a life in SVG via ARIA.
  181. # [17:04] * joanie nods
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  183. # [17:05] <joanie> from some googling, I found that you can have "foreign objects" in svg -- including tables! -- but that the support in user agents is teh suck
  184. # [17:05] <joanie> if the support in user agents was awesome, would that solve this need (at least for SVG)?
  185. # [17:05] <joanie> and I don't know, though I'm tempted to ask on list
  186. # [17:05] <~davidb> you can mix html with svg in browsers AFAIK
  187. # [17:06] <~davidb> but there is probably perf cost
  188. # [17:06] <joanie> that's what the googleverse seems to suggest indeed
  189. # [17:06] <joanie> but apparently the support is not reliable
  190. # [17:06] <~davidb> ah
  191. # [17:06] <joanie> if the support were reliable so that authors could do it, would that solve the problem?
  192. # [17:06] <~davidb> http://people.mozilla.org/~dbolter/svg-radio-button-test.html
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  194. # [17:07] <~davidb> i don't know.
  195. # [17:07] <~davidb> is suspect some SVG is produced via authoring tools that simple spit out all svg.
  196. # [17:08] <joanie> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6987005/create-a-table-in-svg
  197. # [17:08] <joanie> so seems a combination of factors
  198. # [17:08] <joanie> poor support chrome, and ie
  199. # [17:09] <joanie> scaling
  200. # [17:09] * joanie sighs
  201. # [17:09] <~davidb> to get focus to work in FF i think we need to wrap svg in html... http://people.mozilla.org/~dbolter/svg-checkbox-test.html
  202. # [17:10] <~davidb> i should add, when i've brought up mixing html and svg with whatwg-ish folks i see scrunchy faces, or that is my recollection
  203. # [17:19] <joanie> davidb: Next week I have to give an internal talk about what exactly it is I do (ARIA, a11y, etc., etc.). I will add "scrunchy faces" to my Why ARIA slide. ;)
  204. # [17:20] <~davidb> :)
  205. # [17:20] <joanie> sending a bunch of non-native speakers scrambling to wordreference.com
  206. # [17:22] <~davidb> not exactly a scrunchy face but i kinda like http://replygif.net/i/100.gif
  207. # [17:22] <~davidb> alt=disgusted clint eastwood
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  209. # [17:23] <joanie> internationally-understood!
  210. # [17:23] <~davidb> :)
  211. # [17:24] <~davidb> eeejay, yzen, you good for BarrierSmash FFOS edition in 10 mins?
  212. # [17:24] <@yzen> davidb yeah
  213. # [17:25] <@eeejay> sure
  214. # [17:26] <~davidb> hot diggety
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  219. # [17:33] <~davidb> yzen, i'm in kipling
  220. # [17:36] <~davidb> eeejay, it isn't an april fools :)
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  222. # [17:52] <~davidb> eeejay https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules/FirefoxOS
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  230. # [18:59] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled needinfo?(eitan@monotonous.org) on bug 1086545.
  231. # [18:59] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1086545 — NEW, eitan@monotonous.org — [AccessFu] Speech sometimes gets interrupted when swiping and it is supposed to speak the newly focu
  232. # [19:00] * Quits: ioanachiorean_ (ioanachiore@moz-q23.52n.2.5.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  233. # [19:14] * Joins: satdav (uid15780@moz-0t6277.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
  234. # [19:27] <Funktr0n|awy> eeejay: reminder about tomorrow, still on for the hub?
  235. # [19:27] * Funktr0n|awy is now known as Funktr0n
  236. # [19:30] <@eeejay> Funktr0n: yup!
  237. # [19:31] <@eeejay> I think i may be dog sitting, hopefully it is a dog that likes offices
  238. # [19:31] <Funktr0n> yzen: had a request to ask for a ui-r+ on Bug 1135233. Should I go ahead with that recommendation and mark E Pang?
  239. # [19:31] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1135233 — NEW, bugzilla@imross.com — [Accessibility] Utility tray statusbar-tray is inaccessible.
  240. # [19:32] <@yzen> yeah for sure, Funktr0n
  241. # [19:34] <Funktr0n> eeejay: haha, okay cool. If he (or she) is anything like most of the dogs I've seen in offices, I'm sure it'll be a fun day
  242. # [19:36] <@eeejay> i think she is a dog/cat mix. so we will see
  243. # [19:38] <@yzen> anything under 50 pounds is a cat
  244. # [19:38] <@yzen> [reference - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anbrC3x5r6Y]
  245. # [19:38] <Funktr0n> haha gotcha
  246. # [19:50] <@eeejay> lol
  247. # [19:56] <Funktr0n> eeejay: so you said there's a way I can just sign up for a day pass? Is that something I do when I get there?
  248. # [19:58] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
  249. # [20:00] <@eeejay> Funktr0n: not really. you show up, and act entitled.
  250. # [20:01] <@eeejay> Funktr0n: you could also say hello to the person with the signup sheet, and tell them it is your first time
  251. # [20:03] <Funktr0n> eeejay: haha nice, all right. :)
  252. # [20:04] <Funktr0n> eeejay: were you still planning on getting there at 9? I'll probably be there around 9:30 if so
  253. # [20:04] * agibson|afk is now known as agibson
  254. # [20:04] <@eeejay> Funktr0n: yeah. i think so
  255. # [20:05] <Funktr0n> eeejay: okay cool, penciled in.
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  258. # [20:07] * slee_ is now known as slee
  259. # [20:07] * Quits: slee (chatzilla@moz-sphufc.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) (Connection closed)
  260. # [20:08] * Quits: agibson (agibson@moz-j04gi9.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: )
  261. # [20:09] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  262. # [20:12] <@firebot> ggrisco@codeaurora.org cancelled needinfo?(ggrisco@codeaurora.org) on bug 1147646.
  263. # [20:12] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1147646 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — Crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::ProcessContentInserted while stability testing
  264. # [20:12] * Joins: davidb|afk_ (uid12418@moz-qedo4v.ealing.irccloud.com)
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  267. # [20:34] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
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  270. # [20:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  271. # [20:55] * Quits: agibson (agibson@moz-j04gi9.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: )
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  273. # [21:59] <@firebot> mhoye@mozilla.com changed the Component on bug 1149787 from Untriaged to Disability Access APIs.
  274. # [21:59] <@firebot> mhoye@mozilla.com changed the Product on bug 1149787 from Firefox to Core.
  275. # [21:59] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1149787 — UNCONFIRMED, nobody@mozilla.org — label incorrect for field
  276. # [22:08] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-2hf62a.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
  277. # [22:11] <~davidb> cool new input device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAgOnQqyDz0
  278. # [22:13] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-2hf62a.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  279. # [22:18] * Quits: anvk (anovak@moz-871.mvk.11.204.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  280. # [22:35] * Gijs is now known as Gijs_away
  281. # [22:37] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-i5m.05u.207.66.IP) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  282. # [22:46] * Parts: clown (clown@moz-v6m.c3o.211.205.IP)
  283. # [22:54] * Joins: satdav (uid15780@moz-3cdkda.irccloud.com)
  284. # [23:23] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-i5m.05u.207.66.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  285. # [23:29] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
  286. # [23:38] * Quits: newtron (newtron@moz-6lh.c31.71.199.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  287. # Session Close: Thu Apr 02 00:00:00 2015

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