/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2015-05-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu May 07 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  15. # Session Start: Thu May 07 03:02:18 2015
  16. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  20. # [04:01] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | http://logbot.glob.com.au/?c=accessibility'
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  49. # [11:08] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1162434 filed by mzehe@mozilla.com.
  50. # [11:08] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1162434 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Make ISimpleDOM work on X64
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  68. # [14:42] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com requested needinfo from surkov.alexander@gmail.com on bug 1162434.
  69. # [14:42] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1162434 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Make ISimpleDOM work on X64
  70. # [14:45] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(surkov.alexander@gmail.com) on bug 1162434.
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  80. # [15:21] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  81. # [15:21] <~davidb> heyo
  82. # [15:22] <@tbsaunde> heya
  83. # [15:22] <~davidb> hi hi
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  87. # [15:28] <&MarcoZ> Hi davidb, tbsaunde!
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  92. # [15:40] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Hi!
  93. # [15:40] * yzen is now known as yzen_
  94. # [15:40] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Re the case where the DOM node doesn't have an accessible: What was returned in this case before?
  95. # [15:40] <&MarcoZ> surkov: I mean before my patch.
  96. # [15:40] <@surkov> MarcoZ: memory address of DOM node
  97. # [15:41] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Should that behavior be reinstated?
  98. # [15:41] <@surkov> MarcoZ: just look at the line you changed, that was accessible ? UniqeuID() : this;
  99. # [15:41] <@surkov> that depends on whether tehre are consumer
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  101. # [15:42] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Let's hope they tell us soon why getting the document fails for them. I suspect Window-Eyes will require the same solution so fixing one will hopefully fix the other, too.
  102. # [15:42] <@surkov> MarcoZ: maybe not, did you give it a try?
  103. # [15:42] <&MarcoZ> surkov: I tested my build with both JAWS and Window-Eyes 9.1.
  104. # [15:43] <@surkov> both don’t work, right?
  105. # [15:43] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1023509 from --- to FIXED.
  106. # [15:43] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Correct.
  107. # [15:43] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1023509 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  108. # [15:43] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com set status-firefox40 to fixed on bug 1023509.
  109. # [15:43] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1023509 from --- to mozilla40.
  110. # [15:43] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1023509 — FIXED, nobody@mozilla.org — only initialize platform accessibility in the main process
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  112. # [15:44] <~davidb> on nice, did MarcoZ jump on 64 bit followups?
  113. # [15:45] <~davidb> (i'm assuming that is the discussion here)
  114. # [15:45] <&MarcoZ> davidb: He was crazy enough to do so, but doesn't know anything about what to fix really. :)
  115. # [15:45] <~davidb> heh
  116. # [15:45] <~davidb> leaping into the unknown
  117. # [15:45] <~davidb> can work.
  118. # [15:46] <&MarcoZ> surkov: JAWS shows only NetscapeDispatchWnd in the virtual buffer, Window-Eyes shows nothing.
  119. # [15:46] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Can also fail. ;)
  120. # [15:46] <~davidb> there is only success or learning.
  121. # [15:47] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I wouldn’t be surprised if behavior is different for same problem
  122. # [15:48] <&MarcoZ> surkov: davidb: For NVDA, the 64 bit version works absolutely great. haven't found anything that doesn't work. Text attributes, all the interfaces etc. seem to work just the way they work in the 32 bit version now.
  123. # [15:49] <~davidb> so is it isimpledom pain?
  124. # [15:49] <~davidb> (for Jaws etc)
  125. # [15:49] <@tbsaunde> probably that maybe UIA
  126. # [15:49] <~davidb> yeah
  127. # [15:50] <~davidb> bugs on file?
  128. # [15:50] <~davidb> i really should read bugmail this morning
  129. # [15:50] * ~davidb finds Bug 1162434
  130. # [15:50] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1162434 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Make ISimpleDOM work on X64
  131. # [15:51] <~davidb> don't mind me, just a day or two behind :)
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  133. # [15:51] <@surkov> MarcoZ: they don’t do SDN
  134. # [15:52] <&MarcoZ> surkov: No longer?
  135. # [15:52] <&MarcoZ> They wholly went away from it?
  136. # [15:52] <@surkov> NVDA, they probably never did that
  137. # [15:52] <&MarcoZ> surkov: NVDA never did SDN.
  138. # [15:53] <@surkov> that’s what I talk about :)
  139. # [15:53] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Sorry, I thought you were referring to JAWS.
  140. # [15:53] <@surkov> I see :)
  141. # [15:53] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Nope, NVDA never did SDN. That's why we implemented IA2. ;)
  142. # [15:53] <@surkov> I don’t know their internals
  143. # [15:53] <@surkov> yeah
  144. # [15:54] <&MarcoZ> surkov: At least until JAWS 15, FS was a *heavy* consumer of SDN. If something broke on our end, JAWS would immediately stop working. So would Window-Eyes. Both came from the IE side and were using SDN at least until very recently. And frankly, I would be surprised if either JAWS 16 or Window-Eyes 9 would stop using SDN all of a sudden.
  145. # [15:55] <@surkov> this sounds true
  146. # [15:56] <@tbsaunde> you could try making firefox crash or log when people try to get unique id for non accessible sdn node, or try to get unique id you don't know anything about and see what you can find
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  153. # [16:10] <&MarcoZ> Let's wait for the reply from FS to surkov's inquiry first. I somehow hate searching in the dark.
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  157. # [16:30] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Do you think that bug 606468 is still relevant?
  158. # [16:30] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/606468 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Support both 64 and 32 bit clients of ISimpleDOM
  159. # [16:30] <&MarcoZ> (and no, I am not usig a 32-bit version of JAWS on the 64 bit version of Firefox).
  160. # [16:31] <~davidb> MarcoZ, reading w3c charter review emails ATM, what are your thoughts?
  161. # [16:31] <~davidb> (on your own question)
  162. # [16:33] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Oh sorry, let's talk about it later, then. i don't know what to think, that's why I'm asking you.
  163. # [16:34] <~davidb> no sorry needed :)
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  168. # [16:55] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
  169. # [17:10] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1162543 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  170. # [17:10] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1162543 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — fixup getting accessibles from ids
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  178. # [18:28] <~davidb> tbsaunde, what is the behaviour of true vs false return values for methods like RecvRelationByType ?
  179. # [18:29] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
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  181. # [18:35] <@tbsaunde> davidb: false means the handler failed and the content process should be killed because something is worng with it
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  183. # [18:37] <~davidb> aha ok thanks
  184. # [18:38] <~davidb> and ouch yeah, easy r+
  185. # [18:40] * ~davidb pats firebot
  186. # [18:40] * @firebot smiles
  187. # [19:03] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1162621 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  188. # [19:03] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1162621 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — proxy Accessible::IndexOfEmbeddedChild
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  202. # [20:22] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1162654 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  203. # [20:22] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1162654 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — allow proxies to implement the document interface
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  206. # [20:34] <@tbsaunde> joanie: how does orca decide an objects index is -1? AtkObject::IndexInParent doesn't seem to be called
  207. # [20:34] <@tbsaunde> well, its actually sometimes called but it never returns -1
  208. # [20:35] <joanie> it asks at-spi2 via pyatspi
  209. # [20:36] <joanie> what at-spi2 does i'm not sure
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  211. # [20:36] <@tbsaunde> joanie: hm
  212. # [20:36] <joanie> funny you mention that btw
  213. # [20:37] <joanie> last night I was trying to debug a webkitgtk a11y thing
  214. # [20:37] <joanie> via accerciser's ipython console
  215. # [20:37] <joanie> and my webkit code wasn't getting called either
  216. # [20:37] <joanie> was coming from the cache
  217. # [20:37] <joanie> unless I used a getter
  218. # [20:37] <~davidb> atspi cache?
  219. # [20:37] <~davidb> *2
  220. # [20:38] <joanie> davidb: yes. it's sad
  221. # [20:38] <~davidb> interesting
  222. # [20:38] <joanie> or rather, it's meant to make things performant
  223. # [20:38] <joanie> but
  224. # [20:38] <joanie> in order to update the cache, it needs events
  225. # [20:38] <~davidb> sure
  226. # [20:38] <joanie> like state changes to update the state cache
  227. # [20:38] <joanie> and name changes to update the name cache
  228. # [20:38] <joanie> etc.
  229. # [20:38] <joanie> guess what Gecko often fails to emit. ;)
  230. # [20:38] <joanie> it's not *just* Gecko failing to do so
  231. # [20:39] <joanie> but ....
  232. # [20:39] <joanie> so that renders the cache at best problematic
  233. # [20:39] <~davidb> indeed
  234. # [20:39] <joanie> so orca only uses some of the cache
  235. # [20:39] <joanie> and there's still bugs
  236. # [20:39] <joanie> on my list if I ever find time is to see if Orca stops using the cache what all goes to hell
  237. # [20:39] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, name is really hard think of all the places it can come from
  238. # [20:40] <joanie> and it changes
  239. # [20:40] <joanie> so orca no longer uses the cache for names
  240. # [20:40] <joanie> fixed some gecko and gtk+ issues with orca
  241. # [20:40] <joanie> cache is teh suck
  242. # [20:40] <joanie> but I digress
  243. # [20:40] <joanie> my point to tbsaunde is: I wonder if the index comes from the cache
  244. # [20:40] <joanie> at the time the child is added
  245. # [20:40] <joanie> and I dunno
  246. # [20:40] <@tbsaunde> it might
  247. # [20:41] <joanie> you could test with a listener (i know you hate them)
  248. # [20:41] <joanie> but call getIndexInParent()
  249. # [20:41] <joanie> and see if the atk implementation in Gecko gets called
  250. # [20:41] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@moz-p2679h.bredband.skanova.com)
  251. # [20:42] <joanie> also, if a child gets replaced, which sometimes happens
  252. # [20:42] * Joins: icaaq_ (icaaq@moz-p2679h.bredband.skanova.com)
  253. # [20:42] <joanie> the old one loses its parent in the tree
  254. # [20:42] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@moz-p2679h.bredband.skanova.com) (Connection closed)
  255. # [20:42] <joanie> and that might be enough to make at-spi2 to say "no parent, therefor index is -1"
  256. # [20:42] <joanie> again, dunno, but it's a possibility
  257. # [20:43] <joanie> and dead/zombie objects do report an index in parent of -1
  258. # [20:43] <joanie> which makes a path comparison tricky
  259. # [20:43] <joanie> when looking for the replacement object
  260. # [20:45] <joanie> tbsaunde: anyhoo, i was about to take a stretch break. so questions for me before I wander off?
  261. # [20:47] <@tbsaunde> joanie: nah
  262. # [20:47] <@tbsaunde> thanks
  263. # [20:47] <joanie> k good luck. bbiab
  264. # [20:58] * Quits: minot2 (kkus@moz-baj4jj.74.srtnet.com) (Connection closed)
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  273. # [23:02] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-aj9ejj.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  274. # [23:19] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-3b45d0.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  275. # [23:57] * yzen is now known as yzen_
  276. # Session Close: Fri May 08 00:00:00 2015

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