/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2015-05-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue May 12 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  66. # [10:49] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com changed the Component on bug 1163744 from Untriaged to Disability Access APIs.
  67. # [10:49] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1163744 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — [a11y] div with tabindex skipped when navigating with NVDA
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  87. # [15:11] <~davidb> heyo
  88. # [15:14] <SteveF> hello david
  89. # [15:16] <~davidb> hi hi hi
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  108. # [17:37] <@tbsaunde> joanie: when you get a chance could you test https://globau.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/happy-bmo-push-day-140/ with firefox nightly and orca and tell me if the text after the bug links is read for you and if not why not?
  109. # [17:38] <joanie> tbsaunde: ok, i'll download now. being pinged by others, but will try to get to it very soon today
  110. # [17:39] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah don't rush :) thanks
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  113. # [18:10] <joanie> tbsaunde: ok, I can confirm the text is not being read with nightly, is being read for stable. I'll figure out why
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  117. # [18:37] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ok thanks, I thought I fixed what broke it but apparently I screwed up testing it :(
  118. # [18:38] <joanie> what the cause is is not immediately jumping out at me, so I'm digging a bit more
  119. # [18:38] <@tbsaunde> ah ok
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  132. # [20:04] <joanie> tbsaunde: getting close. I don't have a test case for you yet, but the startIndex from the hyperlink iface is now returning -1; before it returned a valid value
  133. # [20:05] <joanie> I'll add a debugging statement to flag that in orca's debug output
  134. # [20:05] <@tbsaunde> joanie: hm, that might be enough
  135. # [20:05] <joanie> normally we don't succeed and get -1
  136. # [20:06] <joanie> ;)
  137. # [20:06] <joanie> but I seem to be getting the -1 like everywhere
  138. # [20:06] <joanie> in nightly
  139. # [20:07] <@tbsaunde> yup, this is a really stupid bug
  140. # [20:07] <joanie> dude, I spent all this time for your really stupid bug? /me grins
  141. # [20:07] * joanie adds debug output to orca so she doesn't do that again ;)
  142. # [20:08] <~davidb> \o/
  143. # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, because I need to do this http://paste.debian.net/175813/ (and yes the bad patch is my fault) sorry :-(
  144. # [20:08] <joanie> tbsaunde: I was teasing you
  145. # [20:09] <@tbsaunde> I know :)
  146. # [20:09] <@tbsaunde> but I'm still pretty dumb
  147. # [20:09] <joanie> and if Orca had debugging lines for this case, we'd have found it faster
  148. # [20:09] <@tbsaunde> I guess just not very careful
  149. # [20:09] <joanie> multitasking, too much to do, etc.
  150. # [20:09] <joanie> we're all human tbsaunde
  151. # [20:09] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah at least you got something useful out of it :)
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  153. # [20:10] <~davidb> probably something I r+'ed
  154. # [20:10] <joanie> tbsaunde: having looked at the diff
  155. # [20:10] <joanie> ok, you do owe me a beer or wine or something
  156. # [20:10] <joanie> :P
  157. # [20:10] <~davidb> OMG
  158. # [20:10] <joanie> davidb: just saw the diff I take it?
  159. # [20:11] * joanie laughs
  160. # [20:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no surkov
  161. # [20:11] <~davidb> yeah
  162. # [20:11] <@tbsaunde> joanie: lol
  163. # [20:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah can review that patch though
  164. # [20:11] <~davidb> r+
  165. # [20:11] <~davidb> i trust you to add a !
  166. # [20:12] <@tbsaunde> davidb: we should probably deal with the burocracy because it should probably go to aurora
  167. # [20:12] <~davidb> tbsaunde, i think there was just a merge right? do you mean the new aurora?
  168. # [20:13] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yup, the patch was landed a week and a half ago
  169. # [20:13] <~davidb> ok cool
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  171. # [20:16] <@tbsaunde> joanie: fwiw if you want to earn more drinks we're probably close to the point you can start testing firefox with e10s on Orca doesn't read much yet, but it sees a fair amount of information
  172. # [20:16] <joanie> tbsaunde: cool
  173. # [20:17] <@tbsaunde> there isn't much in the way of events yet, but that'll change this week I think
  174. # [20:22] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1164135 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  175. # [20:22] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1164135 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — fix AtkHyperlink::GetStartIndex
  176. # [20:23] <~davidb> \o/
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  178. # [20:33] <@yzen> eeejay ping
  179. # [20:33] <@eeejay> yzen: howdy
  180. # [20:34] <@yzen> eeejay hi, you're not working on 1160259 by any chance? i was going to suggest it for a contributor
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  182. # [20:36] <@eeejay> yzen: sounds good. i chatted about it with ross, but he is probably busy with bigger life things now
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  184. # [20:36] <@yzen> eeejay ok
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  190. # [20:57] <@firebot> obara.justin@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 1160259 from nobody@mozilla.org to obara.justin@gmail.com.
  191. # [20:57] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1160259 — NEW, obara.justin@gmail.com — [AccessFu] Explore by touch on scaled content is broken
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  206. # [22:16] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1164193 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  207. # [22:17] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1164193 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — emit a few more events on proxied accessibles for atk
  208. # [22:23] <joanie> surkov: or davidb: or tbsaunde: Remember https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1113153?
  209. # [22:23] <@firebot> Bug 1113153 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — [ATK] Children of tables and lists with role='presentation' should each be exposed with ATK_ROLE_SEC
  210. # [22:23] <joanie> Just tried nightly and the roles are still wrong
  211. # [22:23] <joanie> any updates?
  212. # [22:24] <@surkov> joanie: hurts?
  213. # [22:24] <joanie> ?
  214. # [22:25] <@surkov> joanie: I meant is it a stopper for you?
  215. # [22:26] <joanie> well, anything we get from Gecko with ATK_ROLE_TEXT is something Orca goes, "I have no idea what the frick this is"
  216. # [22:26] <joanie> so it doesn't make things worse
  217. # [22:26] <joanie> but it's still not right
  218. # [22:26] <@surkov> I see
  219. # [22:26] <joanie> it came up again in my mind because we have an open W3C/AAPI action
  220. # [22:26] <joanie> which came due again
  221. # [22:27] <joanie> so I'm pinging as part of that action
  222. # [22:28] <@tbsaunde> changing roles doesn't seem hard probably, but I have no memory and am unfamiliar with the particular issue
  223. # [22:28] <joanie> well the history is in the bug ;)
  224. # [22:28] <joanie> executive summary: Please expose the roles as such-and-such
  225. # [22:28] <joanie> result: closed as fixed with the roles being something else because that seems fine with Windows
  226. # [22:29] <@surkov> joanie: can you update me on it pls, do we misuse ATK_ROLE_TEXT?
  227. # [22:29] <joanie> surkov: yes
  228. # [22:29] <@surkov> joanie: always?
  229. # [22:29] <joanie> an ia2 text frame is apparently static text
  230. # [22:29] <joanie> <quote>
  231. # [22:29] <joanie> ATK_ROLE_TEXT
  232. # [22:29] <joanie> An interactive widget that supports multiple lines of text and optionally accepts user input, but whose purpose is not to solicit user input. Thus ATK_ROLE_TEXT is appropriate for the text view in a plain text editor but inappropriate for an input field in a dialog box or web form. For widgets whose purpose is to solicit input from the user, see ATK_ROLE_ENTRY and ATK_ROLE_PASSWORD_TEXT. For generic objects which display a brief amount of textual info
  233. # [22:29] <joanie> </quote>
  234. # [22:30] <@surkov> joanie: is it HTML textarea?
  235. # [22:30] <@surkov> anything else?
  236. # [22:30] <joanie> anything else in terms of what's wrong?
  237. # [22:30] <@surkov> no, in terms, when we should use it
  238. # [22:30] <@surkov> or can
  239. # [22:30] <@surkov> can -> may
  240. # [22:31] <joanie> I'd lean towards, please don't use it as a general rule ;)
  241. # [22:31] <joanie> spans with handlers: NOT ATK_ROLE_TEXT
  242. # [22:31] <joanie> abbrs: NOT ATK_ROLE_TEXT
  243. # [22:31] <@surkov> joanie: what’s role is right?
  244. # [22:32] <@surkov> for something that contains accessible text?
  245. # [22:32] <joanie> ATK_ROLE_STATIC probably
  246. # [22:32] <joanie> if it's a general text block, ATK_ROLE_SECTION
  247. # [22:33] <@surkov> joanie: if I flip ATK_ROLE_TEXT to ATK_ROLE_SECTION then would it work for you? at least would it be better?
  248. # [22:33] <joanie> in the original bug, I asked for ATK_ROLE_SECTION for the descendants of presentational lists and presentational tables
  249. # [22:33] <joanie> if it's inline, section is not great
  250. # [22:33] <@surkov> joanie: yeah, the bug says we use role paragraph sometimes, is it a problem?
  251. # [22:34] <@surkov> I see, do we have antoher bug for ROLE_STATIC, right?
  252. # [22:34] <joanie> as I stated in the bug you "fixed" and the new bug asking you to fix it, I suggested that paragraph is an appropriate role for paragraph elements
  253. # [22:34] <joanie> because Orca has structural navigation by paragraph
  254. # [22:34] <@surkov> I see
  255. # [22:34] <joanie> and slapping paragraph on non-paragraph elements will cause those to be added to the paragraph navigation and list of paragraphs
  256. # [22:35] <joanie> which is probably not something users expect
  257. # [22:35] <@surkov> yeah, it’s a problem
  258. # [22:35] <joanie> so in summary, I stated what needed to be done in bug 1013584
  259. # [22:35] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1013584 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — Children of tables and lists with role='presentation' should each be exposed as if they were div ele
  260. # [22:35] <joanie> it was "fixed" by doing something totally different
  261. # [22:35] <joanie> I opened a new bug asking for it to be done correctly
  262. # [22:35] <joanie> about... 6 months ago
  263. # [22:36] <@surkov> joanie: I guess that was a fix on Gecko’s layer but there’s still a problem on ATK layer
  264. # [22:36] <@surkov> anyway
  265. # [22:36] <joanie> I think the fix worked for Jamie
  266. # [22:36] <joanie> and ATK just inherited it
  267. # [22:36] <@surkov> ok, let me look if we have a quick fix for that
  268. # [22:37] <joanie> thank you!
  269. # [22:42] * Quits: anvk (anovak@moz-871.mvk.11.204.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  270. # [22:43] * Quits: clown (clown@moz-v6m.c3o.211.205.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  271. # [22:44] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-i5m.05u.207.66.IP) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  272. # [22:51] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonza@moz-4em.ucd.76.208.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  273. # [23:09] * Quits: newtron_ (newtron@moz-6lh.c31.71.199.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  274. # [23:09] <@surkov> joanie: address is a paragraph, is it correct?
  275. # [23:10] <joanie> address?
  276. # [23:10] <joanie> paragraph is a paragraph
  277. # [23:10] <@surkov> HTML address
  278. # [23:10] <joanie> is not a paragraph. lemme see what that element is
  279. # [23:11] <joanie> probably a div
  280. # [23:11] <joanie> i mean section
  281. # [23:12] <@surkov> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aapi/#html-element-to-accessibility-api-role-mapping-matrix
  282. # [23:12] <joanie> generic block elements should typically be mapped as if they were divs
  283. # [23:12] <@surkov> it says it’s a paragraph
  284. # [23:12] <joanie> then I will file a bug
  285. # [23:12] <joanie> oh that's 2013
  286. # [23:12] * joanie looks at current
  287. # [23:12] <@surkov> gimme a link pls?
  288. # [23:12] <@surkov> :)
  289. # [23:13] <joanie> btw, crazy storm so if I disappear (go away) it means I've lost power
  290. # [23:13] <@surkov> http://rawgit.com/w3c/html-api-map/master/index.html
  291. # [23:13] <@surkov> ok
  292. # [23:13] <@surkov> joanie: same
  293. # [23:13] <joanie> yeah
  294. # [23:14] <joanie> I'll file a bug
  295. # [23:15] <@surkov> joanie: html pre is section too?
  296. # [23:15] <joanie> yes
  297. # [23:22] <@surkov> joanie: if you didn’t use ‘static’ word then how would you name atk_role_static?
  298. # [23:22] <joanie> we struggled with that
  299. # [23:23] <joanie> has text but no role worthy of presentation
  300. # [23:23] <joanie> well, may have text
  301. # [23:23] * Quits: logbot (logbot@moz-4j4idd.glob.com.au) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  302. # [23:24] <joanie> basically it's not a widget, does have some information to be presented, shouldn't have the role presented
  303. # [23:24] <joanie> it's appropriate for spans and other inline things that need to be exposed because it has an event handler or some accessible attribute
  304. # [23:25] <joanie> it doesn't *have* to be inline
  305. # [23:25] <joanie> but it will probably be treated as if it is inline
  306. # [23:25] <joanie> unlike a text block element
  307. # [23:26] <joanie> initially we were going to go with static_text rather than text
  308. # [23:26] <joanie> but the ARIA text role got created which says "this text is not text" ;)
  309. # [23:26] <joanie> or rather
  310. # [23:26] <joanie> this not text is text
  311. # [23:27] <joanie> or to put it a different way, I think most things that are IA2 system text or whatever the role is, probably should be "static" for atk
  312. # [23:27] * Joins: logbot (logbot@moz-4j4idd.glob.com.au)
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  314. # [23:35] * Quits: Justin_o (uid14648@moz-pd2b8l.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  315. # [23:36] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-2hf62a.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  316. # [23:37] <@surkov> yep, I see, might be not good for windows
  317. # [23:39] * Quits: Aleksej (Aleksej@moz-2tf.k5f.14.176.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  318. # [23:40] <joanie> I wouldn't change windows of course
  319. # [23:53] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-h623o1.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  320. # [23:54] * wlach is now known as wlach|afk
  321. # Session Close: Wed May 13 00:00:00 2015

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