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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 01 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  15. # [02:17] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1170049 filed by mats@mozilla.com.
  16. # [02:17] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1170049 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — [e10s] crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessibleParent::Destroy()
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  52. # [14:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  53. # [14:57] <~davidb> heyo
  54. # [14:57] * ~davidb coffees
  55. # [15:01] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Good plan, I'll do the same for my afternoon coffee now! :) Hi!
  56. # [15:02] <~davidb> heheh hi
  57. # [15:02] <~davidb> i can only have decaf in the afternoon or i'm wide awake all night
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  59. # [15:06] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Never had any such problems. I can drink coffee even into the evening without problems.
  60. # [15:07] <~davidb> lucky
  61. # [15:07] <~davidb> i seem to have a strong reaction to a lot of drugs that effect the brain
  62. # [15:07] <~davidb> affect
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  64. # [15:18] <~davidb> Gijs, heyo. FWIW the I originally NI'ed you on bug 1168042 to see if you thought we should try to get a fix uplifted (i.e. I'm not sure of the importance of the bug).
  65. # [15:18] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1168042 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — [e10s] accesskeys in content do not work when chrome is focused
  66. # [15:19] <Gijs> davidb: I think MarcoZ answered that question accurately
  67. # [15:19] <Gijs> davidb: I also don't really understand what you mean by "uplifted"
  68. # [15:19] <Gijs> davidb: I don't think we're currently using e10s anywhere except Nightly
  69. # [15:19] <Gijs> davidb: am I wrong?
  70. # [15:19] <~davidb> Gijs, i think they wanted to turn e10s on in beta
  71. # [15:19] <~davidb> but i'm not sure
  72. # [15:19] <Gijs> errrr, not until a while from now, right? :s
  73. # [15:19] <Gijs> davidb: I would check that with the e10s folks
  74. # [15:20] <~davidb> doing.
  75. # [15:20] <Gijs> I don't work on e10s, but I'm faaaaiiiirly sure that is not the plan yet
  76. # [15:20] <Gijs> mconley prolly knows
  77. # [15:20] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from blassey.bugs@lassey.us on bug 1168042.
  78. # [15:21] <~davidb> ya
  79. # [15:21] <~davidb> well blassey has been NI'ed now :)
  80. # [15:21] * ~davidb plays pass the NI
  81. # [15:33] <joanie> tbsaunde: when you're around and have time, Orca master should now spew out quite a bit when putting together line (and other units) content. So maybe we can figure out the "blank" issue you're seeing.
  82. # [15:35] <@tbsaunde> joanie: sure should be fairly soon
  83. # [15:35] <joanie> k thanks
  84. # [15:35] * wlach is now known as wlach|brb
  85. # [15:36] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1168932 from --- to FIXED.
  86. # [15:36] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1168932 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  87. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com set status-firefox41 to fixed on bug 1168932.
  88. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1168932 from --- to mozilla41.
  89. # [15:37] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1168932 — FIXED, lorien@lorienhu.com — Implement ProxyCreated and ProxyDestroyed to update mozAccessibles
  90. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1169376 from --- to FIXED.
  91. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1169376 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  92. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com set status-firefox41 to fixed on bug 1169376.
  93. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1169376 from --- to mozilla41.
  94. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1169408 from --- to FIXED.
  95. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1169408 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  96. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com set status-firefox41 to fixed on bug 1169408.
  97. # [15:37] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1169408 from --- to mozilla41.
  98. # [15:37] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1169408 — FIXED, lorien@lorienhu.com — Merge mozButtonAccessible and mozPopupButtonAccessible
  99. # [15:37] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1169376 — FIXED, nobody@mozilla.org — Allow getting the OuterDocAccessible for the tab's top level document
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  101. # [15:43] <@tbsaunde> joanie: people.mozilla.org/~tsaunders/debug.out
  102. # [15:43] * joanie looks
  103. # [15:44] <joanie> hmmmm
  104. # [15:45] <joanie> tbsaunde: ok, I need to think more and add more debugging I guess
  105. # [15:45] <joanie> this is on planet?
  106. # [15:46] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, new top blog post
  107. # [15:46] <joanie> seems so, ok, lemme see what I can figure out
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  109. # [15:46] <joanie> btw, you use layout mode, right? (i.e. present full lines)
  110. # [15:46] <@tbsaunde> joanie: I assume so? let me check
  111. # [15:47] <joanie> if orca doesn't present one link per line, etc. you are using layout mode
  112. # [15:47] <joanie> you have to disable it on purpose
  113. # [15:48] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, I'm using layout mode
  114. # [15:48] <joanie> tbsaunde: ok, I have a meeting in a bit, but then I'll see what I can figure out and compare what you get with what I get, add more debugging spew, etc.
  115. # [15:49] <@tbsaunde> joanie: fair enough
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  117. # [15:57] <&MarcoZ> davidb: ready for our 1:1 in 3 minutes?
  118. # [15:57] <~davidb> yes sir
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  120. # [16:13] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1170153 filed by kairo@kairo.at.
  121. # [16:13] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1170153 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Nightly content process crash in mozilla::dom::PBrowserChild::SendPDocAccessibleConstructor
  122. # [16:13] <marcfp1> hi
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  125. # [16:14] <@tbsaunde> marcfp: hi
  126. # [16:14] <marcfp> tbsaunde: :)
  127. # [16:14] <marcfp> i'm intereseted in firefoxos ...
  128. # [16:15] <marcfp> i understand that with firefoxos i can use python for devel programs, is it correct ?
  129. # [16:15] <marcfp> or i make some big fault ?
  130. # [16:15] <marcfp> where can i ask about it ? can anyone help me, please ?
  131. # [16:18] <@tbsaunde> marcfp: this isn't the cannel for firefoxos
  132. # [16:18] <marcfp> sorry tbsaunde :)
  133. # [16:19] <marcfp> and thank's for tell it to me :)
  134. # [16:19] <marcfp> xao
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  138. # [16:20] * ~davidb PMs marcfp and sends him over to #introduction
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  141. # [17:12] * wlach|brb is now known as wlach
  142. # [17:26] <@firebot> blassey.bugs@lassey.us cancelled needinfo?(blassey.bugs@lassey.us) on bug 1168042.
  143. # [17:26] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1168042 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — [e10s] accesskeys in content do not work when chrome is focused
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  146. # [17:32] <wlach> silly a11y treeherder question: in most modern web pages (e.g. github), the page title just reflects the content, rather than the site (or view). is it helpful for accessibility at all to include that information? ref: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1169810#c2
  147. # [17:32] <@firebot> Bug 1169810 — ASSIGNED, wlachance@mozilla.com — Logviewer could look better in URL bar
  148. # [17:32] <wlach> davidb: tbsaunde: ^^
  149. # [17:35] <~davidb> MarcoZ ^
  150. # [17:36] <wlach> so specifically -- it used to be "Logviewer -- mochitest blah blah blah". Does it help or hinder a11y to change that to "mochitest blah blah blah"
  151. # [17:36] <wlach> or does it not matter at all
  152. # [17:36] <wlach> Firefox developers are the target audience obv
  153. # [17:38] <~davidb> wlach, i wouldn't worry too much on this one
  154. # [17:38] <@tbsaunde> wlach: personally I'd say logviewer -- blah is more informative but it doesn't seem a11y related
  155. # [17:40] <&MarcoZ> wlach: Are there other modules one can open from this particular address? e. g. other viewers besides the log viewer? If so, yes, log viewer should definitely stay in the title.
  156. # [17:41] <wlach> MarcoZ: yup
  157. # [17:41] <wlach> ok maybe I'll do something like "Log for mochitest blah blah"
  158. # [17:41] <&MarcoZ> wlach: It's a matter of being able to immediately comprehend the context in an unambiguous manner. I think the WCAG even have one of their four basic principles based on that.
  159. # [17:41] <wlach> that's a little shorter but still descriptive of the nature of the content
  160. # [17:41] <&MarcoZ> wlach: I like that.
  161. # [17:42] <wlach> MarcoZ: cool. do you have a link to those principles for future reference?
  162. # [17:42] <&MarcoZ> wlach: And yes, I agree that treeherder also would need some better titling if different modules are showing. As was noted in the bug.
  163. # [17:42] <&MarcoZ> wlach: Digging, a moment...
  164. # [17:43] * ~davidb stands corrected
  165. # [17:44] <&MarcoZ> wlach: http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/intro.html#introduction-fourprincs-head
  166. # [17:44] <wlach> MarcoZ: cool, thanks
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  168. # [17:47] <&MarcoZ> wlach: So your question falls into the categories perceivable and understandable (1 and 3).
  169. # [17:48] <wlach> MarcoZ: right, I think I was mostly unclear on how valuable the title was to (e.g.) someone using a screen reader vs. say just the URL string
  170. # [17:49] <wlach> although I guess you could argue that the principles apply regardless
  171. # [17:49] <wlach> getting off train, biab
  172. # [17:49] * wlach is now known as wlach|biab
  173. # [17:50] <&MarcoZ> wlach|biab: Yes, they apply to more than just screen reader users. And a good concise descriptive title helps everybody to orient themselves. A URL string is something very technical, even for an "average", able-bodied Firefox developer after a long day.
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  179. # [18:24] <joanie> tbsaunde: Orca has been further debug spamified. ;) Next time you have a chance please pull and do another quick test with the 'blank' problem.
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  184. # [18:43] * wlach|biab is now known as wlach
  185. # [18:55] <@firebot> lhenry@mozilla.com requested status-firefox40 on bug 1100602.
  186. # [18:55] <@firebot> lhenry@mozilla.com set status-firefox41 to affected on bug 1100602.
  187. # [18:55] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1100602 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — [e10s] crash in mozilla::a11y::ProxyAccessible::Shutdown()
  188. # [19:05] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ok new log in the same place
  189. # [19:05] <joanie> tbsaunde: thanks /me looks
  190. # [19:06] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yw
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  192. # [19:07] <joanie> tbsaunde: i'm having a wtf moment from your output
  193. # [19:07] <joanie> so I'll add more debugging output shortly (chatting with a colleague atm)
  194. # [19:07] <joanie> ugh and thanks!
  195. # [19:08] <@tbsaunde> joanie: I'm almost laughing how many times you've said that
  196. # [19:09] <joanie> tbsaunde: well, i can navigate planet without problems
  197. # [19:09] * joanie grabs a debug.out of down arrowing to where you get blank
  198. # [19:11] <@tbsaunde> joanie: these are all with nightly to be clear
  199. # [19:11] <joanie> hmmm
  200. # [19:11] <joanie> ok, mine is not nightly
  201. # [19:11] <joanie> maybe I should try that
  202. # [19:11] <joanie> but before you where having this problem and I wasn't
  203. # [19:14] <joanie> tbsaunde: hmmm maybe it's due to static role not being on your system. I thought what I committed would work in that case, but maybe not
  204. # [19:14] <joanie> in a sec I'll show you a your output versus my output
  205. # [19:15] <@tbsaunde> joanie: oh hm, I didn't think atk was *that* old on this machine
  206. # [19:15] <joanie> static is new in the last stable
  207. # [19:15] <joanie> but if that's the problem, don't update
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  209. # [19:15] <joanie> because if that's the problem, my fix won't work on older systems
  210. # [19:15] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ok, I was about to ask if you wanted to test that
  211. # [19:16] <joanie> rather than you changing, I'll set up an older system
  212. # [19:16] <joanie> so I can debug myself ;)
  213. # [19:17] <@tbsaunde> joanie: looks like I have atk 2.16.0 not sure if that is latest stable or not
  214. # [19:17] <joanie> yeah, it is
  215. # [19:17] <joanie> hmmmm
  216. # [19:17] <@tbsaunde> yeah just saw ATK_ROLE_STATIC in the headers
  217. # [19:19] <joanie> maybe I'm looking at a different line
  218. # [19:19] <joanie> and/or your window or settings is different from mine
  219. # [19:19] <joanie> for me BORN is not on a single line
  220. # [19:20] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah I could totally believe my window is a different size or something
  221. # [19:20] <joanie> I wouldn't mind a screenshot
  222. # [19:20] <joanie> you have a window manager that makes that easy?
  223. # [19:22] <@tbsaunde> I've never needed to make a screen shot so I have no idea how
  224. # [19:22] <joanie> in gnome Alt+PrintScreen captures the focused window
  225. # [19:22] <joanie> and puts the image in your pictures folder
  226. # [19:23] <joanie> but looking at your output, I see individual words being presented for the heading
  227. # [19:23] <joanie> the one with #UNBOUND and the arabic
  228. # [19:23] <joanie> in the link inside a heading
  229. # [19:23] <joanie> I also see the 'blank'
  230. # [19:23] <@tbsaunde> that's what I hear iirc
  231. # [19:24] <joanie> but you also here the heading link, right?
  232. # [19:24] <joanie> though one word at a time is sucky
  233. # [19:24] <joanie> which makes me wonder if it's your window size
  234. # [19:24] * joanie resizes her window
  235. # [19:26] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  236. # [19:27] <joanie> tbsaunde: I cannot reproduce the 'blank', but resizing my window makes my output more like yours
  237. # [19:27] <@tbsaunde> joanie: not sure I get the question
  238. # [19:27] <joanie> could you maximize your window
  239. # [19:28] <@tbsaunde> joanie: I'm not actually sure how to do that either
  240. # [19:29] <joanie> alt+space
  241. # [19:29] <joanie> should put you in a menu
  242. # [19:29] <joanie> one choice should be maximize
  243. # [19:30] <@tbsaunde> joanie: hm it seems to put me in something inaccessible who provides this menu?
  244. # [19:30] <joanie> depends on your desktop environment
  245. # [19:30] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  246. # [19:30] <joanie> what's your window manager?
  247. # [19:30] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ah, I'm using fluxbox as the wm
  248. # [19:31] * joanie googles
  249. # [19:31] <@tbsaunde> joanie: so I'm not really suprised its inaccessible most fluxbox stuff is
  250. # [19:32] <joanie> tbsaunde: one doc says alt+f10 maximizes the current window
  251. # [19:33] <@tbsaunde> joanie: lets see
  252. # [19:36] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ok, with that born is still on its own line, but the blanks went away
  253. # [19:37] <joanie> that's progress
  254. # [19:37] * joanie looks at her window again
  255. # [19:38] <joanie> tbsaunde: if you do ctrl+0 it will make the font size default -- for your prefs, anyway
  256. # [19:38] <joanie> looking at the width of the heading, it's not especially wide
  257. # [19:38] <joanie> if it is wrapping to a separate line in a maximized window, my guess is the font size is big
  258. # [19:39] <joanie> which is fine if you like that
  259. # [19:39] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ah yeah, I have a lot more text per line now
  260. # [19:39] <joanie> hahahaha
  261. # [19:39] <joanie> now I get to laugh at you
  262. # [19:39] <@tbsaunde> joanie: well I don't really care
  263. # [19:39] <joanie> but I'm glad I added the debugging to orca
  264. # [19:39] <@tbsaunde> joanie: that's good
  265. # [19:39] <joanie> my point is, if you are not benefitting from a tiny window and large font, don't use them
  266. # [19:40] <joanie> Orca presents what's on the screen
  267. # [19:40] <joanie> not counting offscreen via css stuff of course
  268. # [19:40] <joanie> so if orca is behaving properly (which given the refactoring, etc. is questionable these days ;) )
  269. # [19:41] <joanie> and you get one word per line, it's your fault :P
  270. # [19:41] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah that's fair, I just never minded the one word per line thing enough to dig into why it was that way
  271. # [19:41] <joanie> when you're old like I am, you'll mind
  272. # [19:42] <joanie> repetitive stress injury from Down arrow ;)
  273. # [19:42] <@tbsaunde> yeah maybe ;)
  274. # [19:42] * joanie grins and moves on to other stuff. Thank you for working with me to sort this out tbsaunde!
  275. # [19:45] <joanie> actually, all this reminds me of a bug I've been meaning to file. Setting the caret via accessibility API no longer scrolls the current line into view (in non-focusable text objects)
  276. # [19:46] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-2hf62a.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
  277. # [19:50] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-2hf62a.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  278. # [20:05] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1170242 filed by jdiggs@igalia.com.
  279. # [20:05] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1170242 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Setting the caret via AtkText should scroll content into view
  280. # [20:05] <joanie> tbsaunde: the bug I just filed might be a great task for an intern
  281. # [20:48] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-ql1r6k.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  282. # [20:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  283. # [21:29] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ping, got another bug for ya
  284. # [21:29] <joanie> ugh
  285. # [21:29] <joanie> but ok
  286. # [21:29] <@tbsaunde> lol!
  287. # [21:30] <@tbsaunde> joanie: this time on planet.debian.org look at the reporoduceable builds week 5 post
  288. # [21:30] * Joins: fredw (Icedove@moz-7gtdsj.fbx.proxad.net)
  289. # [21:30] * joanie does a new build
  290. # [21:30] <@tbsaunde> try arrowing down through it, for me the caret gets stuck on the second line
  291. # [21:32] <joanie> tbsaunde: I'm not getting stuck
  292. # [21:32] <joanie> but there are some sticky bugs
  293. # [21:32] <joanie> José just reported one
  294. # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> joanie: hm interesting
  295. # [21:32] <joanie> what line (contents) or object are you getting stuck on
  296. # [21:33] <joanie> lemme try in nightly
  297. # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> joanie: line starting with "what happened about the"
  298. # [21:35] <joanie> what does orca speak as the line?
  299. # [21:35] <joanie> mine starts with What and ends with week:
  300. # [21:36] <@tbsaunde> just the part I quoted, then its stuck, even hitting up doesn't seem to work
  301. # [21:36] <joanie> ok, lemme try resizing my window so it wraps there
  302. # [21:37] <joanie> is orca going mute like for all apps?
  303. # [21:37] <joanie> or just for Firefox?
  304. # [21:37] <@tbsaunde> joanie: so I suspect it doesn't actually wrap there, the title is all n one line
  305. # [21:38] <joanie> but Orca is not presenting the link?
  306. # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah
  307. # [21:39] * joanie tries again
  308. # [21:39] <@tbsaunde> I can actually get orca to read stuff in ff after that its just fiddly
  309. # [21:39] <joanie> ok, so it's not a hang
  310. # [21:40] <joanie> well, you know the drill. please get me a debug.out
  311. # [21:47] <@tbsaunde> joanie: does it make sense to see if fixing the other stickyness issues fix it?
  312. # [21:47] <joanie> maybe
  313. # [21:47] <joanie> I have more stuff to merge in still
  314. # [21:47] <joanie> and it may also fix it
  315. # [21:47] <@tbsaunde> sorry the wireless has just decided to suk here
  316. # [21:47] <joanie> I have comcast. it sucks always.
  317. # [21:49] <@tbsaunde> joanie: hrm, restarting orca fixed it (with and without --debug)
  318. # [21:49] <joanie> odd
  319. # [21:49] <joanie> on a related note, I'm seeing that on Jose's bug
  320. # [21:49] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-ql1r6k.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Connection closed)
  321. # [21:50] <joanie> I'm wondering if I'm holding on to a dead accessible or something
  322. # [21:50] <@tbsaunde> joanie: lets see what happen if I reload
  323. # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> nah reloading is fine
  324. # [21:53] <joanie> hmmm I've got an ugly traceback. It's sporadic, but it's bad enough that it might explain things
  325. # [21:53] * joanie handles that
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  346. # Session Close: Tue Jun 02 00:00:00 2015

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