/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2015-06-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 18 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  6. # [01:00] <@firebot> fred.wang@free.fr requested needinfo from mzehe@mozilla.com on bug 1175269.
  7. # [01:00] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1175269 — ASSIGNED, fred.wang@free.fr — Add MathML roles/subroles for NSAccessibility
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  12. # [01:52] <fredw> surkov: so what about https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1001635#c7 :-)
  13. # [01:52] <@firebot> Bug 1001635 — NEW, jwei@jonathanwei.ca — Add relations for MathMLAccessibles
  14. # [01:52] <@surkov> fredw: it seems we want it, it seems it’s got out of radar :)
  15. # [01:53] <@surkov> if you want to pick it up then it’s good news for me :)
  16. # [01:53] <@surkov> it seems I have a wip
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  19. # [01:53] <fredw> I want to check what was really needed for bug 1001641 before
  20. # [01:54] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1001641 — NEW, jwei@jonathanwei.ca — Provide equivalent support for MathML as WebKit for NSAccessibility
  21. # [01:54] <@surkov> sure
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  39. # [08:54] <LJWatson> @MarcoZ you around?
  40. # [09:54] <&MarcoZ> LJWatson: Hi! Now I am. :)
  41. # [09:55] <LJWatson> Hey Marco. Was wondering if you knew anything about the cause of Jaws saying "clickable" in Firefox - when focused on elements that have no direct event handlers?
  42. # [09:55] <LJWatson> Believe it has to do with a click event on a parent container somewhere further up the hierarchy, but can't find any conclusive info on the subject.
  43. # [10:13] <&MarcoZ> LJWatson: Heh, no wonder, JAWS is a closed system after all. I know from Mick and Jamie from NVDA that they look for the click action exposed on an accessible, and that can be through a click event handler on a parent node, even the document itself.
  44. # [10:14] <&MarcoZ> LJWatson: I assume JAWS does something similar, or uses some other self-HTML-interpretation method to determine that.
  45. # [10:14] <&MarcoZ> LJWatson: After much user request noise, the announcement of clickables is now configurable in NVDA, you can turn it off if you want to. But activating stuff via Enter fromvirtual buffer will still work.
  46. # [10:15] <&MarcoZ> ljwIn Firefox, when building the information, we directly ask the DOM that already knows about the event handling chain if the current element is clickable, and expose the appropriate action. So we represent what the rest of the browser also assumes about a page.
  47. # [10:19] <LJWatson> This problem isn't just a matter of turning off clickable announcements, which presumably turns off the announcement wherever a click event is available?
  48. # [10:20] <LJWatson> It's when Jaws and NVDA announce an element is clickable, even when it isn't. I think it may have something to do with the use of inline event handlers, as opposed to scripted ones. Still trying to figure that part out though Marco.
  49. # [10:22] <&MarcoZ> Yeah, if the document has a click handler, basically everything is, theoretically, clickable. The click bubbles up from the actual element to the event handler of the document, and that determines which element was clicked, and if it should do something or not. The web author has one click handler in place instead of multiple ones.
  50. # [10:23] <LJWatson> Right. It makes for a very messy UX for screen reader users sadly. Thanks for confirming the cause though.
  51. # [10:24] <&MarcoZ> You bet it does!
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  78. # [15:22] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1150510 from --- to FIXED.
  79. # [15:22] <~davidb> heyo
  80. # [15:22] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1150510 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  81. # [15:22] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com set status-firefox41 to fixed on bug 1150510.
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  84. # [15:22] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1150510 from --- to mozilla41.
  85. # [15:22] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1150510 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — Crash [@ nsStringBundle::GetStringFromName(char16_t const*, char16_t**) ]
  86. # [15:27] <fredw> surkov: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/try-builds/fred.wang@free.fr-282ebdbb198a/try-macosx64/firefox-41.0a1.en-US.mac.dmg
  87. # [15:29] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  88. # [15:29] <fredw> MarcoZ: hi! Have you tried the try builds on bug 1175269?
  89. # [15:29] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1175269 — ASSIGNED, fred.wang@free.fr — Add MathML roles/subroles for NSAccessibility
  90. # [15:30] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  91. # [15:32] <&MarcoZ> fredw: Sorry, not yet.
  92. # [15:32] <fredw> OK. surkov has problems to install the dmg so we were not able to test it here.
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  95. # [15:39] <&MarcoZ> fredw: Downloading it now and seeing if I can make sense out of it. I don't know anything about mathML, or about math in general ;), so hopefully I can tell you something useful.
  96. # [15:40] <fredw> MarcoZ: OK thanks. I wrote a testcase https://bug1175269.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8623942 that should be helpful
  97. # [15:40] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1175269 — ASSIGNED, fred.wang@free.fr — Add MathML roles/subroles for NSAccessibility
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  100. # [15:44] <joanie> surkov i am outside
  101. # [15:56] <&MarcoZ> fredw: Commenting in the bug, basically I don't see anything with VoiceOver in the MathML column, for none of the rows. But this could be because we aren't exposing any HTML table related stuff yet, and the rows are all listbox items somehow.
  102. # [16:02] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com cancelled needinfo?(mzehe@mozilla.com) on bug 1175269.
  103. # [16:03] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1175269 — ASSIGNED, fred.wang@free.fr — Add MathML roles/subroles for NSAccessibility
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  107. # [16:26] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1175913 filed by lorien@lorienhu.com.
  108. # [16:26] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1175913 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessibleParent::RemoveAccessible(ProxyAccessible* aAccessible)
  109. # [16:30] <fredw> MarcoZ: thanks. Can you please try this test page instead: https://bug1175269.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8624236
  110. # [16:30] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1175269 — ASSIGNED, fred.wang@free.fr — Add MathML roles/subroles for NSAccessibility
  111. # [16:30] <fredw> (table replaced with a list)
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  113. # [16:40] <&MarcoZ> fredw: That helped, but the problem is that except for the table, nothing reads like in Safari. In fact, the fenced stuf even causes VoiceOver to restrt itself (effectively crash). But the fraction, subscrip and superscript don't read at all, thd square and square root read with some parenthesis and 0 instead of the real number, etc.
  114. # [16:40] <&MarcoZ> The only thing correct is that all are identified as math.
  115. # [16:41] <fredw> MarcoZ: ok, I think perhaps we are missing the relations
  116. # [16:41] <fredw> MarcoZ: but are you able to use an inspector for the accessibility tree?
  117. # [16:41] <&MarcoZ> Most probably. Our Mac a11y is incomplete at best, incomplete and what's there might be broken in places, at worst. ;)
  118. # [16:41] <fredw> or are you just trying to read with voiceover
  119. # [16:41] <&MarcoZ> Sorry no. I could never make the Accessibility Inspector work for me on OS X. Don't know why.
  120. # [16:42] <&MarcoZ> I'm reading with VoiceOver.
  121. # [16:42] <fredw> I mean, in this patch I'm just adding the math roles, not the math relations so I don't expect VoiceOver to reads perfectly
  122. # [16:42] <fredw> MarcoZ: the crash is with first or second try build ?
  123. # [16:43] <&MarcoZ> fredw: Second.
  124. # [16:43] <fredw> MarcoZ: did you try the first one too?
  125. # [16:43] <&MarcoZ> No. Should I? Thought the second was a continuation/improvement over the first, so didn't bother going for the first one at all yet.
  126. # [16:44] <fredw> MarcoZ: Yes, that makes sense. Except that now you're saying that the fences stuff make things crash, so I wonder if these are due to the changes in V2...
  127. # [16:45] <&MarcoZ> Am downloading it now and will try it in a sec.
  128. # [16:50] <&MarcoZ> fredw: Ah, that one didn't contain the fix for bug 1150510 yet, so immediately crashes for me on start up.
  129. # [16:50] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1150510 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — Crash [@ nsStringBundle::GetStringFromName(char16_t const*, char16_t**) ]
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  136. # [17:31] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com set status-firefox39 to affected on bug 1150510.
  137. # [17:31] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com set status-firefox40 to affected on bug 1150510.
  138. # [17:31] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1150510 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — Crash [@ nsStringBundle::GetStringFromName(char16_t const*, char16_t**) ]
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  163. # [19:22] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox40 to fixed on bug 1150510.
  164. # [19:22] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1150510 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — Crash [@ nsStringBundle::GetStringFromName(char16_t const*, char16_t**) ]
  165. # [19:28] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox39 to fixed on bug 1150510.
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  167. # [19:39] <@yzen> eeejay hi
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  169. # [19:43] <@eeejay> yzen: hey
  170. # [19:44] <@yzen> eeejay question, what do we want to happen if we have a focus event on an accessible with aria-hidden?
  171. # [19:45] <@eeejay> yzen: don't remember :P
  172. # [19:45] <@eeejay> yzen: we had a whole conversation about that
  173. # [19:45] <@yzen> eeejay well we call automove on it, which does searchnext in turn
  174. # [19:45] <@eeejay> yzen: from an accessfu perspective, probably nothing
  175. # [19:46] <@yzen> eeejay im just trying to figure out what the right behaviour should be since im working with surkov on his aria-hidden patch
  176. # [19:46] <@eeejay> yzen: right.
  177. # [19:46] <@eeejay> yzen: in accessfu, we shouldn't move focus
  178. # [19:47] <@eeejay> yzen: should there be an event in the first place? maybe
  179. # [19:47] <@yzen> so should we even prevent it going to accessible pivot ?
  180. # [19:47] <@yzen> eeejay correct, that's an error imo but we have a test case that does that :S
  181. # [19:47] <@eeejay> yzen: we should not automove
  182. # [19:47] <@yzen> eeejay gotcha
  183. # [19:47] <@eeejay> imo
  184. # [19:48] <@eeejay> didn't play with that code in a while
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  188. # [20:00] <@yzen> eeejay and what about having it automove to first visible parent ?
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  191. # [20:02] <@eeejay> yzen: sounds right
  192. # [20:02] <@yzen> ok
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  198. # [20:15] <fredw> surkov: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1175269
  199. # [20:15] <@firebot> Bug 1175269 — ASSIGNED, fred.wang@free.fr — Add MathML roles/subroles for NSAccessibility
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  208. # [21:37] <@surkov> fredw: static const RoleDescrMap sRoleDescrMap[] = {
  209. # [21:40] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  210. # [21:58] <fredw> surkov: I don't think that's the problem. If the subrole string is not in sRoleDescrMap, roleDescription will return the string NSAccessibilityRoleDescription([self role], subrole), which is the same as what WebKit does
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  214. # [22:12] * Quits: kkus (kkus@moz-mbb8c5.minotstateu.edu) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  215. # [22:21] * Quits: anvk (anovak@moz-871.mvk.11.204.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  216. # [22:57] <~davidb> surkov, who owns caret browsing?
  217. # [22:57] <~davidb> in FF
  218. # [22:58] <@surkov> some gecko’s common mind :) dunno
  219. # [22:58] <@surkov> it doesn’t look anybody active on it
  220. # [22:58] <@surkov> maybe roc is a contact
  221. # [23:01] <~davidb> ok
  222. # [23:01] <~davidb> ty
  223. # [23:02] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  224. # [23:04] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-i5m.05u.207.66.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  225. # [23:07] <fredw> surkov: https://bug1001641.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8624476
  226. # [23:07] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1001641 — NEW, jwei@jonathanwei.ca — Provide equivalent support for MathML as WebKit for NSAccessibility
  227. # [23:08] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  228. # [23:10] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-pnvqv2.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  229. # [23:14] <joanie> surkov: http://fpaste.org/233777/
  230. # [23:51] * Quits: jongund (chatzilla@moz-emft4q.dres.uiuc.edu) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253])
  231. # Session Close: Fri Jun 19 00:00:00 2015

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