/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2015-08-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Aug 14 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:16] * wlach is now known as wlach|afk
  4. # [00:25] <@firebot> wkocher@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1193786 from --- to FIXED.
  5. # [00:25] <@firebot> wkocher@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1193786 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  6. # [00:25] <@firebot> wkocher@mozilla.com set status-firefox43 to fixed on bug 1193786.
  7. # [00:25] <@firebot> wkocher@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1193786 from --- to mozilla43.
  8. # [00:25] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1193786 — FIXED, surkov.alexander@gmail.com — crash in mozilla::dom::Element::FindAttrValueIn(int, nsIAtom*, nsIAtom* const* const*, nsCaseTreatme
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  18. # [02:32] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-b2g-master to fixed on bug 1176292.
  19. # [02:32] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-b2g-v2.2 to wontfix on bug 1176292.
  20. # [02:32] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-b2g-v2.2r to affected on bug 1176292.
  21. # [02:32] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1176292 — FIXED, eitan@monotonous.org — [AccessFu] Add ability to apply "shade" to screen
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  28. # [03:18] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-b2g-v2.2r to fixed on bug 1176292.
  29. # [03:18] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1176292 — FIXED, eitan@monotonous.org — [AccessFu] Add ability to apply "shade" to screen
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  39. # [06:40] <@firebot> bijaya.k.dash@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 1194586 from Untriaged to Keyboard Navigation.
  40. # [06:40] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1194586 — UNCONFIRMED, nobody@mozilla.org — keypress event is firing for non character producing key combinations
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  59. # [15:04] <~davidb> heyo
  60. # [15:04] <~davidb> !seen Kairo
  61. # [15:04] <@firebot> kairo was last seen 12 hours and 38 minutes ago, saying 'jp: and having that was the primary reason why we even created this machine - putting correlations on it in addition only came later because it was already there' in #breakpad.
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  63. # [15:12] <&MarcoZ> Heyo davidb!
  64. # [15:13] <~davidb> hi hi
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  73. # [15:59] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Do we have anyone who could look at bug 1193703, now that Steven Michaud is for the most part retired (AFAIR)?
  74. # [15:59] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1193703 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — crash in -[NativeMenuItemTarget menuItemHit:]
  75. # [15:59] <&MarcoZ> davidb: It appears to be a Cocoa widget bug, not a11y related.
  76. # [15:59] <~davidb> MarcoZ, Michaud is still around
  77. # [16:00] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Oh! I'll CC him on the bug, then. A friend is hitting this one several times a day.
  78. # [16:00] <~davidb> k
  79. # [16:05] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org on bug 1170049.
  80. # [16:05] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1170049 — NEW, tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org — [e10s] crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessibleParent::Destroy()
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  89. # [17:33] <@firebot> tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org cancelled needinfo?(tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org) on bug 1170049.
  90. # [17:33] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1170049 — NEW, tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org — [e10s] crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessibleParent::Destroy()
  91. # [17:35] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 1189277 from nobody@mozilla.org to tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  92. # [17:35] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1189277 — NEW, tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org — PDocAccessible::Msg_BindChildDoc KillHard aborts
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  103. # [21:11] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ping when you have some time
  104. # [21:11] <joanie> tbsaunde: pong
  105. # [21:11] <joanie> if it's quick
  106. # [21:11] <@tbsaunde> joanie: it probably isn't
  107. # [21:11] <joanie> executive summary?
  108. # [21:11] <@tbsaunde> hence the when you have some time ;-)
  109. # [21:12] <joanie> tbsaunde: in short, what's the topic/problem?
  110. # [21:12] <@tbsaunde> I'd like to know what is failing that cuases orca to not do caret nav between elements in e10s
  111. # [21:12] <joanie> hahahahaha
  112. # [21:12] <joanie> ok
  113. # [21:13] <@tbsaunde> tab nav works, so that's good at least
  114. # [21:13] <joanie> tbsaunde: my *guess* is that Orca doesn't know it's in document content
  115. # [21:13] <joanie> yay re tab
  116. # [21:13] <joanie> so if you yourself have some time, here's what might be worth trying:
  117. # [21:14] <joanie> make a hello world test case
  118. # [21:14] <joanie> maybe with two paragraphs or divs
  119. # [21:14] <joanie> enable caret nav in firefox
  120. # [21:14] <joanie> ctrl+home to move the native caret
  121. # [21:14] <joanie> then arrow
  122. # [21:14] <joanie> once or twice
  123. # [21:14] <joanie> look at the debug.out that results
  124. # [21:15] <joanie> if you make a more complicated test case, you'll have debug.out spewage to wade through
  125. # [21:15] <@tbsaunde> yeah lets see
  126. # [21:15] <joanie> my guess is that you'll find something in the debug.out that boils down to "not in document content"
  127. # [21:15] <joanie> which means it's being tossed to the default script
  128. # [21:16] <joanie> which knows nothing about webby things, caret control, embedded objects, etc., etc.
  129. # [21:16] <@tbsaunde> well, I was just playing, and I found arrowing around a link worked, but if I got outside it orca started reading document frame, so I kind of wonder if its a weird focus problem
  130. # [21:16] <joanie> if it's in a link, the link gets focus right?
  131. # [21:17] <joanie> so even if the web and gecko scripts conclude you're not in web content:
  132. # [21:17] <joanie> the default script sees a caret moved event (we see bazillions of them) and looks to see if you are actually in the object which emitted the event
  133. # [21:17] <joanie> if a link claimed focus, then Orca should think you're in that link
  134. # [21:18] <joanie> and the default script would then present the caret moved event because you're in it
  135. # [21:18] <joanie> but paragraphs and the like don't claim focus (which is a good thing)
  136. # [21:18] <joanie> so Orca probably doesn't think you're in that paragraph
  137. # [21:18] <joanie> which is a long babbly way of saything the following tbsaunde:
  138. # [21:18] <joanie> two issues if I had to guess:
  139. # [21:19] <joanie> 1. Orca doesn't know the web content is web content and passes things off to the default script for *presentation*
  140. # [21:19] <joanie> 2. Because Orca doesn't know the web content is web content, it is *not* controlling the caret -- even in a link.
  141. # [21:19] <joanie> make sense?
  142. # [21:20] <@tbsaunde> sure
  143. # [21:20] <joanie> ok, wrt the not knowing it's in web content:
  144. # [21:20] <joanie> Depending on the conditions, Orca takes one of two general approaches
  145. # [21:21] <joanie> approaches to find the document frame
  146. # [21:21] <joanie> from the app down
  147. # [21:21] <joanie> and from the object up
  148. # [21:21] <joanie> my guess is that you probably haven't completely broken the ancestry ;) ;)
  149. # [21:22] <joanie> which suggests that one cannot get the document frame from the application
  150. # [21:22] <~davidb> haven't or have?
  151. # [21:22] <joanie> Orca tries to do this for Gecko by looking for the 'embdes' relationship
  152. # [21:22] <joanie> have not
  153. # [21:22] <~davidb> k
  154. # [21:22] <joanie> if you cannot work your way by parent from an element to the document frame
  155. # [21:22] <joanie> then you've really screwed up ;)
  156. # [21:23] <joanie> my guess is you haven't really screwed up
  157. # [21:23] <joanie> in which case it's getting from the chrome to the document
  158. # [21:23] <joanie> I'd see if you can, via atk/at-spi2, get from the firefox chrome to the document frame
  159. # [21:24] <joanie> 1) by children
  160. # [21:24] <joanie> (i.e. drill down)
  161. # [21:24] <joanie> 2) by the embeds relationship
  162. # [21:24] <joanie> davidb: make sense?
  163. # [21:24] * ~davidb comes back
  164. # [21:24] <~davidb> yeah
  165. # [21:24] <joanie> cool
  166. # [21:25] <~davidb> joanie, does accerciser still work?
  167. # [21:25] * ~davidb hasn't used linux in eons
  168. # [21:25] <joanie> you mean in general?
  169. # [21:25] <~davidb> yeah
  170. # [21:25] <@tbsaunde> yeah, let me finish looking at this log first
  171. # [21:25] <joanie> yes davidb
  172. # [21:25] <~davidb> good
  173. # [21:25] <joanie> tbsaunde: no problem. I'm getting teh bossman up to speed :P
  174. # [21:38] * Quits: satdav (uid15780@moz-sljh5r.tooting.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  175. # [21:42] <@tbsaunde> joanie: I'm not sure if this is related or not, but I changed the test case to contain a link because that way its easier to be sure the focus is in content, then when I arrow through the link the speech in the log is generated by key press events not by the caret move events
  176. # [21:43] * joanie re-reads that
  177. # [21:44] <joanie> so if the presentation in a link is really due to orca controlling the caret, what happens when you arrow out of the link into a paragraph?
  178. # [21:44] <@tbsaunde> orca says "document frame"
  179. # [21:45] <joanie> presumably because it claimed focus
  180. # [21:45] <joanie> normally Orca ignores or silently deals with that
  181. # [21:45] <joanie> I wonder why it's not this time
  182. # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> so, what I meant was in the log I see things like http://paste.debian.net/292270/
  183. # [21:46] <joanie> tbsaunde: is that the right log?
  184. # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, its part of the log I just made
  185. # [21:46] <joanie> a single word, dequeued
  186. # [21:47] <@tbsaunde> then the coresponding caret move event is http://paste.debian.net/292272/
  187. # [21:47] <joanie> ain't especially helpful
  188. # [21:47] * joanie looks
  189. # [21:47] <joanie> that also just says "dequeued"
  190. # [21:47] <joanie> i need more than one word
  191. # [21:47] <@tbsaunde> yeah super weird
  192. # [21:47] <joanie> hence my, is that the right log?
  193. # [21:47] <@tbsaunde> sorry of course I meant to paste more
  194. # [21:48] * joanie nods and smiles
  195. # [21:50] <@tbsaunde> ok, lets try this people.mozilla.org/~tsaunders/orca.out
  196. # [21:50] * joanie looks
  197. # [21:51] <joanie> that's much more log like ;)
  198. # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> caret event is handled at line 1538
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  200. # [21:51] * joanie nods
  201. # [21:51] * joanie keeps reading
  202. # [21:52] <@tbsaunde> key event causing it is 1478
  203. # [21:52] <joanie> ok, and the document frame is also due to orca controlling the caret
  204. # [21:53] <joanie> tbsaunde: can I see your test case?
  205. # [21:54] <joanie> tbsaunde: also, does your document frame implement AtkText?
  206. # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> joanie: people.mozilla.org/~tsaunders/test.html
  207. # [21:54] * joanie looks
  208. # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> joanie: I'm not sure off hand though I think it should
  209. # [21:55] <joanie> i agree it should
  210. # [21:55] <joanie> I'm just wondering why Orca is not getting the text there
  211. # [21:55] <joanie> but you now have my attention ;)
  212. # [21:55] <joanie> give me a sec or three to commit what I'm doing to a local branch
  213. # [21:55] <joanie> then I'll debug this on my end
  214. # [22:01] <joanie> tbsaunde: if I grab the latest nightly and enable multiprocess, will I have what you have? Or do you have local patches, etc.?
  215. # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> joanie: I was testing with nightly
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  217. # [22:03] <joanie> ok thanks
  218. # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> joanie: thanks for looking at it
  219. # [22:03] <joanie> np
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  221. # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> actually I kind of suspect we might get the interfaces wrong for the document accessible
  222. # [22:03] <joanie> I think you're right
  223. # [22:04] <joanie> but I need to prove it to us :)
  224. # [22:04] <@tbsaunde> thanks
  225. # [22:04] <joanie> if I left and right arrow within the paragraph, that works
  226. # [22:04] <joanie> it's crossing out of one object and into another which fails
  227. # [22:04] <joanie> so I'm guessing it's the doc frame
  228. # [22:05] <@tbsaunde> yeah, docs are kind of special so not totally suprising
  229. # [22:05] <joanie> tbsaunde: or a broken hierarchy
  230. # [22:05] <@tbsaunde> why don't I fix this and next week we can pick this up and see where we are
  231. # [22:06] <joanie> when I look in accerciser, I see a scrollpane
  232. # [22:06] <joanie> which a child of internal frame
  233. # [22:06] <joanie> with no other children
  234. # [22:06] <joanie> I have an additional document frame which has a bunch of children, but which is not your page
  235. # [22:06] <joanie> and which is not open in my browser
  236. # [22:06] <@tbsaunde> yeah, I think going down the tree might not work? I'd need to go read some code
  237. # [22:07] <@tbsaunde> that last part is weird
  238. # [22:07] <joanie> yeah
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  240. # [22:07] * joanie creates a quick tester
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  242. # [22:14] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  243. # [22:15] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1194853 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  244. # [22:15] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1194853 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — pass the correct interfaces to Proxycreated when creating documents
  245. # [22:17] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
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  248. # [22:24] <joanie> tbsaunde: Ok, it's not the document frame itself
  249. # [22:24] <joanie> it's getting children
  250. # [22:26] <joanie> tbsaunde: in particular, objects claim to have 0 children
  251. # [22:26] <joanie> but they report parents :)
  252. # [22:26] <@tbsaunde> joanie: hrm interesting
  253. # [22:28] <@tbsaunde> joanie: and all accessibles do that not just stuff around the document?
  254. # [22:28] <joanie> correct
  255. # [22:28] <joanie> will pastebin some stuff
  256. # [22:28] <joanie> one sec
  257. # [22:28] <@tbsaunde> ah I see yeah that's another bug that's easy to fix
  258. # [22:28] <joanie> you found it already?
  259. # [22:29] <joanie> or should I pastebin?
  260. # [22:29] <@tbsaunde> I found something, but if pastebin is easy I might as well look
  261. # [22:29] <joanie> ok 1 sec or 2 then
  262. # [22:31] <joanie> tbsaunde: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/255323/
  263. # [22:31] <joanie> it's everythign in one (small) pastebin
  264. # [22:33] <joanie> oops ignore the bad body tag
  265. # [22:33] <joanie> at the end
  266. # [22:33] * joanie triple checks that's not to blame
  267. # [22:33] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-ql1r6k.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Connection closed)
  268. # [22:33] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-ql1r6k.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  269. # [22:33] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  270. # [22:34] <joanie> yeah, just verified that my not closing the body tag properly doesn't change the result
  271. # [22:35] <joanie> tbsaunde: so we're getting the correct events (good), we know we're in document content (good), we just cannot move out of the current object into a new object because everything claims to have no children
  272. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, and I see where the bug in that is so hopefully I can fix that early next week and we can retry then
  273. # [22:36] <joanie> tbsaunde: nice!
  274. # [22:36] <joanie> good way to end the week :)
  275. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, thanks!
  276. # [22:36] <joanie> you bet
  277. # [22:36] * joanie goes back to fighting against libreoffice a11y
  278. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> this makes me somewhat more hopefully linux is close to really working
  279. # [22:37] <joanie> I think you're correct tbsaunde
  280. # [22:37] <@tbsaunde> how is it?
  281. # [22:37] <joanie> they fix some things, they break others
  282. # [22:37] <joanie> I try to hack around the latter
  283. # [22:37] <joanie> otherwise Linux sucks ;)
  284. # [22:38] <@tbsaunde> that's not great
  285. # [22:38] <joanie> but with Orca now working fairly decently with google docs in firefox, I'm getting closer to saying, "file a bug and use a web app"
  286. # [22:38] <joanie> ;)
  287. # [22:40] <@tbsaunde> joanie: heh, my experience with google stuff still isn't great, but I use it rarely
  288. # [22:40] <joanie> you have to enable sticky focus mode in orca
  289. # [22:40] <joanie> and the google docs a11y support in google docs
  290. # [22:40] <joanie> and then learn their shortcuts
  291. # [22:40] <joanie> i need to make some how-to docs and short videos
  292. # [22:41] <joanie> in my copious spare time ;)
  293. # [22:42] <@tbsaunde> joanie: heh yeah, maybe some day I'll have to deal with them enough that I start to care and try that
  294. # [22:49] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1194859 filed by dmajor@bugmail.cc.
  295. # [22:49] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1194859 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — crash in mozilla::a11y::ARIAGridCellAccessible::GroupPosition()
  296. # [22:50] <@firebot> dmajor@bugmail.cc set status-firefox40 to unaffected on bug 1194859.
  297. # [22:50] <@firebot> dmajor@bugmail.cc set status-firefox41 to affected on bug 1194859.
  298. # [22:51] <@firebot> dmajor@bugmail.cc set status-firefox42 to affected on bug 1194859.
  299. # [22:51] <@firebot> dmajor@bugmail.cc set status-firefox43 to affected on bug 1194859.
  300. # [22:52] <@firebot> dmajor@bugmail.cc requested needinfo from surkov.alexander@gmail.com on bug 1194859.
  301. # [22:55] * Quits: webatou (Thunderbird@moz-255gg3.life.8e10.2788.2a02.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  302. # [23:53] * Joins: satdav (uid15780@moz-sljh5r.tooting.irccloud.com)
  303. # [23:54] * yzen is now known as yzen_
  304. # Session Close: Sat Aug 15 00:00:00 2015

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