/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2015-12-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Dec 14 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  62. # [04:34] * belew.mozilla.org sets mode: +ooaoqo eeejay tbsaunde MarcoZ MarcoZ davidb davidb
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  65. # [05:20] <@eeejay> yzen: http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/pcc/recipes/stephs-tofu
  66. # [05:28] <@yzen> eeejay: thanks!
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  69. # [05:29] <@eeejay> we are making it now, so i remembered
  70. # [05:29] <@yzen> Well try it next week
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  85. # [11:32] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
  86. # [12:03] <bmcginty> Good day. Should I be able to expand a combobox in XUL using the nsIAccessible apis, with accElem.takeFocus() and accElem.doAction(0)? I can provide more context if needed.
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  88. # [12:52] * Joins: alexarnaud (user@moz-07bucj.rev.sfr.net)
  89. # [12:52] <alexarnaud> Hi all !
  90. # [12:53] <alexarnaud> We have some mistake on Debian with the Debian latest security update. Icedove and Iceweasel so Thunderbird and Firefox doesn't work.
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  92. # [13:20] <Gijs> bmcginty: why are you trying to use the accessibility APIs to do that?
  93. # [13:20] <Gijs> alexarnaud: is the mistake a11y-related? And are you one of the packagers who has made a mistake, or are you saying you're using those apps and they don't work correctly?
  94. # [13:38] <bmcginty> Gijs: I'm providing interaction with Firefox from the linux command line. Basically turning webpages into text-console representations that blind users can work with.
  95. # [13:39] <bmcginty> Gijs: sorry, didn't answer the question. I've tried doing mouse clicks, as well. Most other actions work perfectly, so I thought that using doAction would be the simplest path.
  96. # [13:40] <Gijs> bmcginty: which combobox are you trying to deal with, and which version of Firefox?
  97. # [13:42] <bmcginty> Gijs: The one I've got here is 39. crud, slightly out of date. Teh control is under about:preferences. click "content", and it's the "default font" combobox.
  98. # [13:44] <@firebot> jmathies@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1066901 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  99. # [13:44] <@firebot> jmathies@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1066901 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  100. # [13:44] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1066901 — DUPLICATE, nobody@mozilla.org — e10s accessibility prompt has problems
  101. # [13:45] <Gijs> bmcginty: it's possible you're running into a bug I fixed semi-recently (so for 44 or 45, which are nightly, not release yet)
  102. # [13:45] <Gijs> bmcginty: trying to figure this out
  103. # [13:46] <bmcginty> Gijs: I'll try nightly if you'd like. and thanks for your time.
  104. # [13:46] <Gijs> bmcginty: I mean, that will be a quick way of checking if your method works there...
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  107. # [13:48] <bmcginty> Gijs: sure. let me grab and test.
  108. # [13:49] <Gijs> bmcginty: hrm, so it wfm from the web console in Firefox
  109. # [13:50] <Gijs> bmcginty: testing in 43
  110. # [13:50] <Gijs> (current beta)
  111. # [13:50] <Gijs> bmcginty: following snippet: a11y = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/accessibleRetrieval;1"].getService(Ci.nsIAccessibleRetrieval); cbox = document.getElementById("defaultFont"); a11y.getAccessibleFor(cbox).doAction(0)
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  113. # [13:52] <Gijs> bmcginty: oh, though I guess I am also testing on Windows. How are you verifying the thing is open? It might be that we don't fire the right event (on Linux or in general) ?
  114. # [13:53] * Gijs is sighted and can see it opening - but if we don't expose that properly that would still be unhelpful/buggy :(
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  116. # [13:59] <bmcginty> Gijs: I'm checking the expanded/collapsed states and the visibility and selection of the combobox children.
  117. # [14:02] <Gijs> bmcginty: hrm, those seem to get updated here... how did the test on 45 go?
  118. # [14:03] <Gijs> well, the expanded/collapsed state
  119. # [14:03] <bmcginty> Gijs: as soon as I figure out why nightly's unhappy, I'll report back. Might be extension signing or something else, not a11y related though.
  120. # [14:03] * Gijs checks kid visibility
  121. # [14:03] <Gijs> ah, um, could be e10s
  122. # [14:03] <Gijs> though that should be turned off if it detects you trying to use a11y APIs
  123. # [14:04] <bmcginty> Gijs: will check that as well. thanks.
  124. # [14:15] <Gijs> bmcginty: so the immediate a11y child of the combobox seems to be the popup, and that seems to always keep Ci.nsIAccessibleStates.STATE_INVISIBLE -- but the accessible kids of *that* element seem to get updated here (testing on 42 (current release) on linux now) and not have STATE_INVISIBLE when the combobox is opened using the method you describe
  125. # [14:15] <Gijs> bmcginty: I'm not an expert on the internals of our implementation here, hopefully surkov will be here in a few hours (he's in EST) and he might be able to shed more light on this.
  126. # [14:19] * Parts: sixtyten (quassel@moz-tdh.v3s.111.217.IP) ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
  127. # [14:21] <alexarnaud> Gijs: Nothing of that, I work at hypra.fr and I'm mandated to find what sort of thing make the bug happened.
  128. # [14:21] <alexarnaud> Gijs: Personnally I thinks it's a package issue with some sort of configuration stuff.
  129. # [14:23] <Gijs> alexarnaud: this channel is about accessibility, so it's likely not the best place to get answers then. Best thing to do would be to file a bug with a description of the issue. If it works in official builds from mozilla.org, file it against the debian package, if it doesn't work on official builds either, file at bugzilla.mozilla.org . In the latter case, folks in #developers might be able...
  130. # [14:23] <Gijs> ...to help you get to the bottom of it more quickly.
  131. # [14:24] <@firebot> ovidiu.boca@softvision.ro changed the Component on bug 1231313 from Untriaged to Keyboard: Navigation.
  132. # [14:24] <@firebot> ovidiu.boca@softvision.ro changed the Product on bug 1231313 from Firefox to Core.
  133. # [14:24] <@firebot> ovidiu.boca@softvision.ro changed the Status on bug 1231313 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  134. # [14:24] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1231313 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Romanian keyboard: AltGr+T opens a new tab instead of inserting diacritic ț
  135. # [14:26] <alexarnaud> Gijs: it's accessibility issue, iceweasel work but it's not connected with AT-SPI2 via D-bus. Thanks for your anwser, I'll investigate.
  136. # [14:27] <bmcginty> Gijs: understood. I'm pretty sure when I finish this upgrade (and a bunch of other things that chain from that) it'll work.
  137. # [14:27] <Gijs> alexarnaud: ah, then I misread your "nothing of that". Sorry!
  138. # [14:48] <~davidb> Heyo
  139. # [14:55] * ~davidb embraces espresso machine
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  149. # [15:15] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Hi!
  150. # [15:15] <~davidb> hi hi
  151. # [15:15] <&MarcoZ> davidb: et al, feel free to share this around Mozilla through your channels as widely as possible: https://www.marcozehe.de/2015/12/14/the-web-accessibility-basics/
  152. # [15:16] <~davidb> hurrah!
  153. # [15:16] <alexarnaud> MarcoZ: is your that fix Mozilla a11y bugs ?
  154. # [15:17] <alexarnaud> I would like to understand how those bugs are chosen ? What's the priority, ETC ?
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  156. # [15:19] <&MarcoZ> alexarnaud: I triage and test stuff, I do not do much coding. Oh and I write articles.
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  167. # [15:54] <bmcginty> Gijs: Re the combobox issue, it is indeed firing. Something's making it lose focus or state. I can see the popuphiding event and a DOMMenuActive event firing, which assumes that means it's closing and reopening the combobox. TLDR, looks like the error is in my court.
  168. # [15:57] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Feel like having an 1:1 today? Or still curing a Mozlando hangover? ;-) (and I don't mean the alcoholic sense)
  169. # [15:57] <~davidb> heheh
  170. # [15:57] <~davidb> i do want to talk but moving it a bit later would be great for me
  171. # [15:57] <~davidb> tomorrow/wed?
  172. # [15:57] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Works for me!
  173. # [15:58] <~davidb> awesome
  174. # [15:58] <~davidb> i'm in the middle of emailing recruiter about intern processing
  175. # [15:58] <&MarcoZ> All right!
  176. # [16:07] <~davidb> opening session is here https://air.mozilla.org/mozlando-opening-session/
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  179. # [16:32] <&MarcoZ> Wow, my blog stats are going crazy. ;)
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  182. # [16:49] <@firebot> tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org cancelled needinfo?(tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org) on bug 1186427.
  183. # [16:49] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1186427 — NEW, lorien@lorienhu.com — Add more checks to ensure that proxy tree structure is valid
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  187. # [16:57] <@tbsaunde> smaug: so for bug 1228400 it seems like the right thing to do right now is null check tabChild, but I'm really curious why the document is still around at all assuming the tabChild has been destroyed
  188. # [16:57] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1228400 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — crash in mozilla::dom::PBrowserChild::SendPDocAccessibleConstructor
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  191. # [17:02] <Jamie_> guigs: ping
  192. # [17:07] <guigs> Jamie_ pong
  193. # [17:07] <guigs> morning
  194. # [17:08] <Jamie_> guigs: do you know who are the fxos accessibility people? Also also how was your trip home?
  195. # [17:09] <guigs> Jamie: maybe, I will look for -em and it was safe thank you!
  196. # [17:11] <guigs> MarcoZ i believe
  197. # [17:11] <guigs> Jamie- unless you are looking for something more sepecifc?
  198. # [17:12] <Jamie_> well i talked to a person from accessibility and from vanni at the work week about getting the vanni speech to text engine added to accessibility fro phonecalls for hearing impared
  199. # [17:12] <Jamie_> they told me to get in contact with both teams to see about making it happen
  200. # [17:12] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 1228400 from nobody@mozilla.org to tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  201. # [17:12] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1228400 — NEW, tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org — crash in mozilla::dom::PBrowserChild::SendPDocAccessibleConstructor
  202. # [17:13] <&MarcoZ> Jamie_: Probably davidb or yzen_ or eeejay.
  203. # [17:13] <&MarcoZ> Jamie_: I wasn't at Mozlando unfortunately.
  204. # [17:14] <Jamie_> thats a bummer
  205. # [17:14] <Jamie_> i just want to see about getting the ball rolling as soon as possible
  206. # [17:15] <@yzen_> Jamie_ yes eeejay would probably be best, i think speech to text was already landed into master (at least I saw it on devices) but in more general context than accessibility
  207. # [17:15] <~davidb> yeah, eeejay
  208. # [17:16] <Jamie_> yzen_: yes i know, it currently has nothing to do with accessibility, but that is what i am trying to change
  209. # [17:16] <@yzen_> Jamie_ what things in particular did you have in mind ?
  210. # [17:17] <Jamie_> spech to text for phone calls for hearing impared
  211. # [17:19] <Jamie_> yzen_: right now no cell phone platform has it at all i have checked
  212. # [17:20] <~davidb> that is surprising
  213. # [17:20] <~davidb> and so in a way exciting
  214. # [17:22] <@yzen_> Jamie_ ah gotcha, yeah, i think we should sync up with eeejay and vaaini folks on that, have you considered filing a bug for that and/or sending a note to fxos-dev mailing list ? we can start this way?
  215. # [17:22] <Jamie_> i dont mind any way it happens, i just know it is 100% doable and i would love to see it happen
  216. # [17:23] * Joins: lsocks (lsocks@moz-495m1k.resnet.ubc.ca)
  217. # [17:23] * ChanServ sets mode: +o lsocks
  218. # [17:23] <@yzen_> Jamie_ great, so if you start the ball rolling these ways we will chime in
  219. # [17:24] <Jamie_> sure thing
  220. # [17:24] <Jamie_> what is the email for the fxos-dev
  221. # [17:25] <@yzen_> it's dev-fxos@lists.mozilla.org and you can sign up here: https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-fxos
  222. # [17:27] <Jamie_> thanks yzen_
  223. # [17:33] <Jamie_> yzen_: email sent out
  224. # [17:49] * Quits: ioanachiorean (ioanachiore@moz-5l3.0mm.2.5.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  225. # [17:55] <alexarnaud> MarcoZ: I know your blog ! It's good place to lear more about mozilla accessibility.
  226. # [17:58] <@lsocks> tbsaunde: was just reading up on that windows bug. is bug 1212906 not fully resolved?
  227. # [17:59] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1212906 — FIXED, nobody@mozilla.org — avoid handling windows messages while waiting for the responseto a sync a11y message
  228. # [17:59] <@lsocks> tbsaunde: otherwise i'm not sure why that focusedchild caching is necessary
  229. # [18:01] <@lsocks> nvm i found that other bug
  230. # [18:03] <@tbsaunde> lsocks: its not, let me look
  231. # [18:03] <@tbsaunde> or not. aparently I can't read :p
  232. # [18:17] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-an5vm5.cable.teksavvy.com) (Connection closed)
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  239. # [18:49] <~davidb> lsocks: yeah we sort of need to cache a lot (everything) cc tbsaunde
  240. # [18:58] * Joins: clown (clown@moz-v6m.c3o.211.205.IP)
  241. # [19:01] <@firebot> quicksaver@gmail.com requested needinfo from jmathies@mozilla.com on bug 1198459.
  242. # [19:01] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1198459 — FIXED, jmathies@mozilla.com — Disable a11y in content when we detect e10s is enabled and disable e10s on startup if a11y recently
  243. # [19:06] <lsocks> davidb: is there any bug discussion on the caching? i've been looking through bugmail and didn't see any
  244. # [19:06] <~davidb> 1 sec
  245. # [19:07] <~davidb> lsocks: probably bug 1222255
  246. # [19:07] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1222255 — INVALID, nobody@mozilla.org — Consider using a separate accessibility thread for e10s accessibility
  247. # [19:08] <~davidb> I think tbsaunde has talked some on IRC/phone with bz, billm etc
  248. # [19:08] <~davidb> and we had an IRL meeting in orlando
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  256. # [20:18] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why do we have HTMLComboboxListAccessible?
  257. # [20:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: AT rely on certain hierarchy or what do you mean?
  258. # [20:20] <@firebot> jmathies@mozilla.com cancelled needinfo?(jmathies@mozilla.com) on bug 1198459.
  259. # [20:20] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1198459 — FIXED, jmathies@mozilla.com — Disable a11y in content when we detect e10s is enabled and disable e10s on startup if a11y recently
  260. # [20:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: it seems really redundant
  261. # [20:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why do they relly on it though? what useful information is it providing?
  262. # [20:22] <@surkov> they expect to see COMBOBOX -> LISTBOX -> LISTITEM hierarchy
  263. # [20:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: which and why?
  264. # [20:24] <@surkov> that has to be something historical
  265. # [20:25] <@surkov> note, ARIA comboboxes follow this pattern
  266. # [20:26] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess legacy makes some sense, but its still pretty silly
  267. # [20:26] <@surkov> see for example, http://www.oaa-accessibility.org/examplep/combobox1/
  268. # [20:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd say aria is probably silly to do it that way ;) unless the extra element is actually useful there
  269. # [20:30] <@surkov> perhaps they just copied the practices of HTML combobx accessibliy
  270. # [20:32] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1232395 filed by quicksaver@gmail.com.
  271. # [20:32] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1232395 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Console message that a11y disabled e10s is misleading when using force-enable
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  279. # [21:23] <@eeejay> Jamie_: i think your idea is good if we had a phone app/device project. i don't think we do now, but it would be a neat feature/addon for sure.
  280. # [21:26] <Jamie_> eeejay: as of right now i have checked, no devices that are cells have hearing impaired accessibility
  281. # [21:27] <Jamie_> eeejay: even if i have to run the project myself i have a goal to make it happen lol
  282. # [21:28] <@eeejay> Jamie_: that's awesome
  283. # [21:28] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com requested needinfo from masayuki@d-toybox.com on bug 1198600.
  284. # [21:28] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1198600 — UNCONFIRMED, nobody@mozilla.org — The behaviour of the arrow keys in right-to-left languages is confusing
  285. # [21:29] <Jamie_> eeejay: problem is i need at least one person from each team to help me since they know the parts more in depth than i do, i am just QA so i know to that point
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  291. # Session Close: Tue Dec 15 00:00:00 2015

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