/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2008-06-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 11 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [08:51] * Attempting to rejoin channel #css
  4. # [08:51] * Rejoined channel #css
  5. # [08:51] * Topic is 'CSS Working Group Discussion -- Logged at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
  6. # [08:51] * Set by anne on Mon Apr 21 15:34:48
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  12. # [17:28] <anne> hmm, maybe we should discuss MQ today
  13. # [17:28] <anne> I think I fixed the remaining issues
  14. # [17:40] * Quits: myakura (myakura@222.145.138.216) (Quit: Leaving...)
  15. # [17:42] * Joins: glazou (daniel@82.247.96.19)
  16. # [17:42] <glazou> hi there
  17. # [17:45] <anne> hey, maybe we can decide on MQ this call?
  18. # [17:45] <anne> draft: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-mediaqueries/
  19. # [17:45] <anne> disposition: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-mediaqueries/disposition.html
  20. # [17:46] <glazou> anne, but you said it was not ready because of new issues...
  21. # [17:46] <anne> I did, I managed to address them
  22. # [17:47] <anne> it was less difficult than I expected
  23. # [17:47] <glazou> did the commenters agree on the resolutions yet ?
  24. # [17:47] <anne> the commentors mainly proposed the resolutions
  25. # [17:48] <anne> though I'd actually like the WG to agree
  26. # [17:48] <glazou> define mainly please ?-)
  27. # [17:49] <anne> there was one comment from fantasai about whether the spec should say something about zooming etc. that did not have a suggestion and where I said that I don't think it would be good to say something about that
  28. # [17:49] <glazou> did she agree with your answer ?
  29. # [17:49] <anne> I don't know
  30. # [17:49] <glazou> I recommend to ask
  31. # [17:49] <glazou> so you can _really_ close the issue
  32. # [17:49] <glazou> you see my point ?
  33. # [17:50] <glazou> a DoC will be extensively reviewed by W3M
  34. # [17:50] <anne> I know what you mean, but I don't see how it affects this
  35. # [17:50] <glazou> they will ask questions about that
  36. # [17:50] <anne> we're moving _back_
  37. # [17:50] <anne> from CR to LC
  38. # [17:50] <anne> so they can review more
  39. # [17:51] <glazou> as soon as you show a DoC, commenters have to agree with the resolution
  40. # [17:52] <glazou> otherwise, it's only a WG decision and the DoC does not say if the comment still stands
  41. # [17:52] <glazou> I know it's very formal
  42. # [17:52] <glazou> but that's what a DoC is meant to be
  43. # [17:52] <anne> the disposition of MQ doesn't seem to allow so much detail
  44. # [17:52] <anne> anyway, you're an editor too, maybe you can help out!
  45. # [17:53] <glazou> :)
  46. # [17:54] <glazou> question anne, why are some "accepted" and "resolved" answers in orange ?
  47. # [17:54] <anne> i'm quite serious, I don't think I have the time to revamp this DoC
  48. # [17:54] <glazou> ok
  49. # [17:54] <glazou> but please answer that last question
  50. # [17:54] <anne> glazou, they are marked as proposals for the WG to agree on
  51. # [17:55] <glazou> ok, thanks
  52. # [17:55] <glazou> we'll try to discuss it today if we have time
  53. # [17:55] <glazou> we have a rather long agenda already
  54. # [17:55] <glazou> brb
  55. # [17:55] <anne> k
  56. # [17:55] <fantasai> anne: it's fine
  57. # [17:56] <fantasai> anne: I'll answer on list
  58. # [17:56] * trackbot Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) Working Group http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/
  59. # [17:57] <fantasai> there, closed
  60. # [17:57] <fantasai> anne: wrt the resolution issue, I would check with dbaron on that
  61. # [17:58] <fantasai> anne: it could be unnecessarily difficult from a parsing POV
  62. # [17:58] <fantasai> given that DIMEN tokens are all floats IIRC
  63. # [17:59] <anne> at least two parser implementors consider this to be trivial (Rune (Opera) and Stewart (antplc?))
  64. # [17:59] * glazou closes the window because he does not want another hornet in the room...
  65. # [18:00] <fantasai> ok
  66. # [18:00] <glazou> we have a new variety of hornets here, entirely black, terribly agressive
  67. # [18:00] <glazou> imported :-(
  68. # [18:00] <plinss_> The dreaded killer bees...
  69. # [18:01] <glazou> really painful
  70. # [18:01] <glazou> apparently they come from china
  71. # [18:02] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  72. # [18:02] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/11-css-irc
  73. # [18:02] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  74. # [18:02] <plinss_> zakim, this is style
  75. # [18:02] <Zakim> ok, plinss_; that matches Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  76. # [18:03] <Zakim> +fantasai
  77. # [18:03] <anne> Zakim, passcode?
  78. # [18:03] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
  79. # [18:04] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@71.204.153.3)
  80. # [18:04] <dbaron> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  81. # [18:04] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, glazou, fantasai
  82. # [18:05] <Zakim> +??P9
  83. # [18:05] <anne> Zakim, ?? is me
  84. # [18:05] <Zakim> +anne; got it
  85. # [18:05] <Zakim> +David_Baron
  86. # [18:05] <fantasai> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008AprJun/0268.html
  87. # [18:06] <fantasai> Daniel: Two new items for agenda
  88. # [18:06] <fantasai> Daniel: David Baron wanted to discuss css3-color
  89. # [18:06] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  90. # [18:06] <fantasai> Daniel: Anne wanted to discuss Media Queries
  91. # [18:07] <fantasai> Zakim, who is noisy?
  92. # [18:07] <Zakim> fantasai, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (12%), glazou (90%), anne (9%)
  93. # [18:07] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  94. # [18:08] <Arron> Zakim, [Microsoft] is me
  95. # [18:08] <Zakim> +Arron; got it
  96. # [18:08] <Zakim> -glazou
  97. # [18:09] <Zakim> +glazou
  98. # [18:09] <anne> Scribe: anne
  99. # [18:09] <fantasai> Daniel: Regrets from Bert, Molly, MoZ, Steve.. and that's all
  100. # [18:09] <anne> Regrets: Molly, Bert, Mohammed, Steve
  101. # [18:09] <fantasai> ScribeNick: anne
  102. # [18:10] <anne> DG: css3-color agenda addendum proposed by DB, css3-mediaqueries by AvK
  103. # [18:10] <anne> Topic: Charter
  104. # [18:10] <anne> DG: Peter e-mailed the last document with integration of comments
  105. # [18:10] <anne> DG: need to e-mail it to W3M ASAP
  106. # [18:10] <anne> DG: is anything else needed?
  107. # [18:11] <anne> EE: I was happy with the charter
  108. # [18:11] <anne> AE: No additional issues
  109. # [18:11] <fantasai> EE: given peterl's explanations and assuming Anne is ok with his modules
  110. # [18:11] <anne> AvK: ok (through IRC)
  111. # [18:11] <anne> Topic: Public list of members
  112. # [18:12] <dbaron> Saying that the member list is public makes sense to me.
  113. # [18:12] <anne> DG: Karl Dubost suggested making the member list public
  114. # [18:12] <anne> DG: should we make that explicit in the charter?
  115. # [18:12] <anne> DG: making things more official
  116. # [18:12] <anne> DG: no objections?
  117. # [18:12] <anne> [none heard]
  118. # [18:12] <anne> DG: PL will you add that to the charter? great
  119. # [18:12] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Add note about public list of members to charter, submit to w3c management
  120. # [18:13] <anne> Topic: css3-color
  121. # [18:13] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  122. # [18:14] <anne> DB: My understanding with LC is that the chairs ask other WGs who want to review before LC
  123. # [18:14] <anne> DG: we do that every two weeks at the HCG meeting
  124. # [18:14] <anne> DG: we have to prepare a list of groups that should review the document
  125. # [18:14] <anne> DB: I would suggest just SVG
  126. # [18:14] <anne> DG: XSL?
  127. # [18:14] <anne> DB: maybe
  128. # [18:15] * Joins: salonir (836b0066@128.30.52.43)
  129. # [18:15] <anne> DG: it's a list of groups we explicitly ask to review the document
  130. # [18:15] <anne> EE: SVG and XSL sounds fine
  131. # [18:15] <anne> DG: ok
  132. # [18:16] <anne> DG: how much time do we give for review?
  133. # [18:16] <anne> DG: six weeks because of the holiday season
  134. # [18:16] <anne> DG: publication date ASAP
  135. # [18:17] <anne> DG: need review of status of this document
  136. # [18:17] <anne> AvK: Bert Bos should probably do that
  137. # [18:17] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@131.107.0.75)
  138. # [18:17] <anne> DG: he's back in next week
  139. # [18:18] <anne> DB: I'm gonna be on vacation starting the end of next week for a week and a day
  140. # [18:18] <anne> EE: I can help out if needed
  141. # [18:18] * alexmog just revived the IRC client
  142. # [18:19] <anne> RESOLVED: publish ASAP for six weeks; ask SVG and XSL for comments
  143. # [18:19] <fantasai> RESVOLED: publish asap after Bert's review
  144. # [18:19] * alexmog and saloni are on the phone from [microsoft]
  145. # [18:19] <anne> s/for six/review for six/
  146. # [18:19] <anne> Topic: flexbox
  147. # [18:19] <anne> DG: lots of comments, still think it's worth publishing?
  148. # [18:20] <anne> DB: pretty much entire thread dominated by another proposal
  149. # [18:20] <anne> DB: that doesn't change my mind
  150. # [18:20] <anne> DB: maybe a few comments on the spec, but that doesn't change my mind on this
  151. # [18:20] <anne> DG: other opinions?
  152. # [18:20] <anne> AvK: I think we should do it
  153. # [18:20] <anne> AE: I think it's ok
  154. # [18:20] <anne> EE: me three!
  155. # [18:21] <fantasai> heh
  156. # [18:21] <anne> RESOLVED: publish flexbox
  157. # [18:21] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  158. # [18:21] <fantasai> Topic: Media Queries
  159. # [18:22] <fantasai> AvK: The main issue was one David Baron raised in April.
  160. # [18:22] <fantasai> AvK: I discussed with him, and decided to make the edit.
  161. # [18:22] <fantasai> AvK: The issue was error handling for unknown media types
  162. # [18:22] <fantasai> AvK: Originally said UAs should ignore unknown media types
  163. # [18:22] <fantasai> AvK: Now says unknown media types are false
  164. # [18:22] <fantasai> AvK: which is what it was in CR
  165. # [18:23] <fantasai> AvK: It does mean that 3d-glasses is malformed media query and would be ignored
  166. # [18:23] <fantasai> AvK: because that's not an identifier
  167. # [18:23] <fantasai> AvK: The other change is that the resolution feature was not defined by the spec
  168. # [18:23] <fantasai> AvK: I added a paragraph saying that resolution is <integer> followed by <identifier>
  169. # [18:24] <anne> disposition MQ: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-mediaqueries/disposition.html
  170. # [18:24] <fantasai> AvK: Stewart also made some editorial comments
  171. # [18:24] <fantasai> AvK: Here is the disposition of comments
  172. # [18:24] <fantasai> AvK: The orange areas are proposals
  173. # [18:24] <fantasai> AvK: If the WG agrees with those, then we move forward. They are already edited.
  174. # [18:25] <fantasai> AvK: Red is comments considered out-of-scope for Level 3
  175. # [18:26] <fantasai> Daniel: I propose an action item to everyone to review the disposition of comments.
  176. # [18:26] <fantasai> Daniel: And if there are no comments sent by next week, then we consider the changes accepted.
  177. # [18:26] <fantasai> ACTION all: review http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-mediaqueries/disposition.html
  178. # [18:26] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  179. # [18:26] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - all
  180. # [18:26] * RRSAgent records action 1
  181. # [18:27] <glazou> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/actions/overdue
  182. # [18:28] <fantasai> Elika has nothing to report
  183. # [18:29] <fantasai> waiting on Peter to check in changes for selectors move to dev.w3.org
  184. # [18:29] <fantasai> peter says to go ahead
  185. # [18:29] <fantasai> Anne: close ACTION-58
  186. # [18:30] <fantasai> close ACTION-58
  187. # [18:30] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-58.
  188. # [18:30] <trackbot> ACTION-58 Add caretRangeFromPoint to CSSOM and prepare for publication closed
  189. # [18:30] * anne needs to start doing the CSSOM properties stuff soonish :/
  190. # [18:31] <fantasai> Arron: wrote testcase for CSS2.1 issue 6
  191. # [18:32] * fantasai missed Arron's other comments
  192. # [18:32] <fantasai> Alex: i wrote up the proposal for vertical alignment property
  193. # [18:33] <fantasai> ACTION: Alex convert vertical alignment property action item to an issue
  194. # [18:33] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  195. # [18:33] * RRSAgent records action 2
  196. # [18:33] <trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Convert vertical alignment property action item to an issue [on Alex Mogilevsky - due 2008-06-18].
  197. # [18:33] <anne> EE: for ACTION-22 can you post a link to the testcases?
  198. # [18:33] <anne> AE: can do
  199. # [18:33] <fantasai> ScribeNick: anne
  200. # [18:34] <anne> AE: I'll post them to the mailing list as the link I have doesn't work
  201. # [18:34] <anne> Topic: CSS 2.1 issues
  202. # [18:34] <plinss_> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/actions/57
  203. # [18:34] <anne> PL: I have ACTION-57; I wrote the disclaimer
  204. # [18:35] <anne> PL: for the IRC log
  205. # [18:35] <glazou> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/actions/57
  206. # [18:36] <fantasai> I suggest s/working communication/informal working communication/
  207. # [18:36] <anne> EE: I would add something that states it's informal or unofficial
  208. # [18:37] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposed wording accepted with above change.
  209. # [18:37] <fantasai> AvK: Where do we put this?
  210. # [18:37] <fantasai> Daniel: On the public page for the group
  211. # [18:37] <anne> DG: and in the topic
  212. # [18:37] <anne> s/Daniel/DG/
  213. # [18:37] <anne> DG: of this channel
  214. # [18:37] <anne> DG: we don't want unofficial statements to be taken as official
  215. # [18:38] <anne> EE: I can take an action item to put the text on W3C space
  216. # [18:38] <anne> EE: and the link from the topic as well
  217. # [18:39] <anne> ACTION to Elika put the text from ACTION-57 on w3.org and link to it from the #css topic
  218. # [18:39] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  219. # [18:39] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
  220. # [18:39] <anne> ACTION to fantasai put the text from ACTION-57 on w3.org and link to it from the #css topic
  221. # [18:39] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  222. # [18:39] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
  223. # [18:39] <anne> ACTION: fantasai to put the text from ACTION-57 on w3.org and link to it from the #css topic
  224. # [18:39] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  225. # [18:39] * RRSAgent records action 3
  226. # [18:39] <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Put the text from ACTION-57 on w3.org and link to it from the #css topic [on Elika Etemad - due 2008-06-18].
  227. # [18:39] <anne> Topic: CSS 2.1 issues
  228. # [18:39] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008AprJun/0276.html
  229. # [18:40] <anne> DG: EE can you guide us through?
  230. # [18:40] <anne> EE: I forgot ISSUE-6
  231. # [18:40] <fantasai> no, CSS2.1 issue 6
  232. # [18:40] <glazou> http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-8
  233. # [18:40] <fantasai> http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-6
  234. # [18:40] <anne> s/ISSUE-6/CSS 2.1 issue 6/
  235. # [18:41] <anne> EE: Opera didn't agree with the wording initially
  236. # [18:42] <anne> AvK: my recollection was that everyone agreed, but Opera wanted to have other wording
  237. # [18:42] <anne> EE: CSS 2.1 issue 6 is about margin collapsing, AE and I did testcases
  238. # [18:42] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008May/0215.html
  239. # [18:42] <anne> EE: I recall that DB agreed (see above e-mail)
  240. # [18:43] <anne> EE: DB anything to add?
  241. # [18:43] <anne> DB: no
  242. # [18:44] <fantasai> RESOLVED: proposal accepted for CSS2.1 issue 8
  243. # [18:44] <anne> RESOLVED: CSS 2.1 issue 6 and 8 resolved as suggested
  244. # [18:44] <fantasai> http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-24
  245. # [18:44] <anne> DG: the next is CSS 2.1 issue 24 ^^
  246. # [18:45] <anne> DG: from my recollection we already used them everywhere
  247. # [18:45] <anne> EE: that's what I thought until I read the spec
  248. # [18:45] <anne> DB: the prose isn't as generic, but the grammar is
  249. # [18:46] <anne> EE: the proposal is to make the prose more generic
  250. # [18:46] <anne> DG: no objections at all
  251. # [18:46] <anne> the proposal is here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008May/0252.html
  252. # [18:47] <anne> AE: it's ok
  253. # [18:47] <anne> AvK: yes!
  254. # [18:47] <anne> DG: great, resolved
  255. # [18:47] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal for CSS2.1 Issue 24 accepted
  256. # [18:47] <anne> RESOLVED: CSS 2.1 issue 24 resolved per proposal
  257. # [18:48] <fantasai> http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-39
  258. # [18:48] <anne> EE: CSS 2.1 issue 39 is problem with the CSS 2.1 spec; clear in CSS 3
  259. # [18:48] <anne> RESOLVED: CSS 2.1 issue 39 resolved per proposal
  260. # [18:49] <anne> DG: CSS 2.1 issue 42 is about position:static and clear:none
  261. # [18:49] <anne> EE: no opinion
  262. # [18:49] <anne> DG: no opinion
  263. # [18:50] <anne> DG: IE doesn't match the proposal, IE8 appears to match it
  264. # [18:51] <anne> DB: prefer to defer to Matt and Boris on this
  265. # [18:51] <anne> DG: this needs more technical discussion
  266. # [18:51] <anne> DG: lets move to CSS 2.1 issue 48
  267. # [18:52] <anne> DB: prefer to discuss together with (as of now non-existing) 49
  268. # [18:53] <anne> EE: lets discuss CSS 2.1 issue 35
  269. # [18:53] <anne> EE: should probably discuss with DH
  270. # [18:53] <fantasai> http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-45
  271. # [18:53] <anne> EE: CSS 2.1 issue 45 has a good proposal ^^
  272. # [18:54] <anne> [scribe missed something]
  273. # [18:55] <anne> DB: problem with this proposal is that the specified value could be inherit
  274. # [18:55] <anne> EE: the proposal gives you a specified value that is not inherit
  275. # [18:56] <fantasai> Current text is
  276. # [18:56] <fantasai> The static position for 'left' is the distance from the left edge of the containing block to the left margin edge of a hypothetical box that would have been the first box of the element if its 'position' property had been 'static' and 'float' had been 'none'.
  277. # [18:56] <anne> DG: need more review time?
  278. # [18:56] <anne> DB: I'm still not following it yet
  279. # [18:57] <anne> DB: might want to add a note to make it more clear
  280. # [18:57] <fantasai> Add something liek: (This may require a hypothetical recomputation of the 'display' property.)
  281. # [18:58] <anne> s/note/parenthetical/
  282. # [18:58] <anne> EE: something like that ^^
  283. # [18:58] <anne> DB: not sure I'd put it that way
  284. # [18:59] <dbaron> Something more like: (Note that the rules in section 9.7 mean that a different specified value of 'position' or 'float' can result in a different value for 'display', which means this hypothetical calculation may need to presume a different value for 'display'.)
  285. # [19:00] <anne> DG: maybe you can change the issues so that everyone can review it. Probably not something we can solve here. Is that ok?
  286. # [19:01] <anne> EE: yes
  287. # [19:02] <anne> EE: for CSS 2.1 issue 46 I'd like to improve the propose so I rather wait with that
  288. # [19:02] <anne> s/propose/proposal/
  289. # [19:03] <anne> ACTION: Daniel to ping Melinda about her CSS 2.1 issue
  290. # [19:03] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  291. # [19:03] * RRSAgent records action 4
  292. # [19:03] <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Ping Melinda about her CSS 2.1 issue [on Daniel Glazman - due 2008-06-18].
  293. # [19:03] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008May/0265.html
  294. # [19:03] <anne> DG: that was the last item on the agenda and it was about time. Anything else?
  295. # [19:03] <anne> DG: ok, thanks you! bye!
  296. # [19:03] <Zakim> -David_Baron
  297. # [19:03] <Zakim> -Arron
  298. # [19:04] <Zakim> -fantasai
  299. # [19:04] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  300. # [19:04] <Zakim> -plinss
  301. # [19:04] <Zakim> -glazou
  302. # [19:04] <Zakim> -anne
  303. # [19:04] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  304. # [19:04] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, glazou, fantasai, anne, David_Baron, Arron, [Microsoft]
  305. # [19:04] * glazou is now known as glazou_bbl
  306. # [19:12] * Quits: glazou_bbl (daniel@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou_bbl)
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  314. # [20:36] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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  319. # [21:06] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241)
  320. # [23:19] <dbaron> anne, another media queries issue -- device-aspect-ratio and aspect-ratio should be clear on whether whitespace is allowed around the '/'.
  321. # [23:19] <dbaron> anne, I think it should be allowed.
  322. # Session Close: Thu Jun 12 00:00:00 2008

The end :)