/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2008-07-09 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Jul 09 00:00:00 2008
# Session Ident: #css
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# [09:39] <fantasai> Bert: If you don't mind, I'm going to start shuffling around /Style/CSS content over the next couple days to prep for the website redesign
# [09:40] <fantasai> Bert: specifically, moving some files into a templating system
# [09:40] <fantasai> Bert: I'm planning to start with /Style/CSS/Test/
# [09:40] <fantasai> Bert: and leave the front page unchanged
# [09:44] <Bert> I do mind. Shouldn't we have an pretty good idea of the final design and structure before we touch the live pages?
# [09:44] <Bert> And what do you mean by a templating system?
# [09:46] <Bert> The "template" at the moment is certain a set of classes and divs.
# [09:47] <Bert> There are some requirements on the first part of each page because of the script I use for managing translations.
# [09:48] <Bert> If the translations aren't foing to be linked from the same place in the source, I want to make sure I can change that script first.
# [09:49] <Bert> And the RSS and Atom feeds also require certain elements and classes. I need to test those scripts too, if the page strcuture changes.
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# [17:10] <fantasai> Bert: We have a good idea of the structure already
# [17:10] <fantasai> Bert: I've been working on that
# [17:11] <fantasai> Bert: Templating would be shifting most of the chrome (repeated <head> and <body> content) to a common file and using SSI to include it instead of copy/paste
# [17:11] <Bert> OK, tell me what it is, so I can see if it can be done on the live page without ill effects.
# [17:12] <fantasai> Bert: Site structure? or template system?
# [17:12] <Bert> The change you want to make to the Test page.
# [17:13] <fantasai> I want to split it into multiple pages
# [17:13] <fantasai> one for each test suite
# [17:13] <fantasai> it's getting too long
# [17:14] <fantasai> then /Style/CSS/Test itself will include general information about the test suites
# [17:14] <fantasai> and link to all of them
# [17:14] <fantasai> Soemthing like http://csswg.inkedblade.net/staging/redesign/Test/
# [17:14] <fantasai> although I'd keep the design you have already
# [17:14] <Bert> People aren't bothered by scrolling as much as they used to. And the Web hasn't increased in speed a lot, so scrolling may be faster than clicking...
# [17:15] <Bert> But a sinple split shouldn't be a big problem.
# [17:15] <Bert> We may want to think about keeping some of the fragment IDs somewhat meaningful.
# [17:15] <fantasai> ok
# [17:45] <anne> fantasai, as for test numbers, for Selectors API (very simple spec) someone created over 1500 tests already, and namespaces are not tested yet
# [17:47] <fantasai> yeah, I expect numbers to be very inexact
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# [17:47] <fantasai> but at least it would help to get an idea of, is this in the hundreds, thousands, or ten-thousands
# [17:47] <anne> hundred-thousands...
# [17:48] <anne> though maybe that's unrealistic even though it would be required
# [17:50] <fantasai> I could probably spend the rest of my life reviewing CSS tests...
# [17:52] <anne> if CSS indeed survives for a long time to come that might be worth it
# [17:52] <Bert> CSS tests reviewer, that's a job that didn't exist ten years ago... How is the pay? :-)
# [17:54] <fantasai> decent :)
# [17:54] <sylvaing> some people may spend the rest of their life working for Microsoft. So really, it's not so bad :)
# [17:54] <fantasai> lol
# [17:55] <fantasai> but presumably not on the same project the whole time
# [17:56] <Bert> Maybe the two keep each other in business: MS adds bugs, that need new tests, that lead to patches... etc. :-)
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# [17:57] <sylvaing> yes. today's bug is tomorrow's patch. it's a beautiful thing.
# [17:57] <fantasai> I am sure there are millions of web designers who wish that were true :)
# [17:58] * Joins: Molly (Molly@70.171.237.207)
# [17:58] <fantasai> hey Molly
# [17:59] <Molly> hey Elika, hey everyone
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# [18:00] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-css-irc
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# [18:01] * fantasai prints out Bert's Marquee module draft to read later today
# [18:01] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
# [18:01] <Zakim> ok, plinss, I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM already started
# [18:02] <Zakim> + +aaaa
# [18:03] <plinss> zakim, +aaaa is fantasai
# [18:03] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
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# [18:04] <Zakim> +Bert
# [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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# [18:05] <plinss> zakim, +[Microsoft] is Arron
# [18:05] <Zakim> sorry, plinss, I do not recognize a party named '+[Microsoft]'
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# [18:05] <plinss> zakim, [Microsoft] is Arron
# [18:05] <Zakim> +Arron; got it
# [18:06] <Zakim> +??P26
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# [18:06] <dbaron> RRSAgent, make logs public
# [18:06] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, dbaron
# [18:06] <dbaron> Zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:06] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, Molly_Holzschlag, fantasai, Bert, Arron, Melinda_Grant, ??P26
# [18:07] <George> Zaki, ??P26 is me
# [18:07] <Bert> I gave the link to the new harness to the Math WG as well. It may still miss one or two features for them.
# [18:07] <George> Zakim, ??P26 is me
# [18:07] <Zakim> +George; got it
# [18:07] <Zakim> +David_Baron
# [18:08] <Zakim> +Ming
# [18:10] <Zakim> +??P29
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# [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.408.981.aabb
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# [18:11] <plinss> zakim, ??P29 is sylvaing
# [18:11] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
# [18:11] <Zakim> +jason_cranfordtea
# [18:12] <anne> Zakim, passcode?
# [18:12] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
# [18:12] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
# [18:12] <Zakim> +??P33
# [18:13] <anne> Zakim, ?? is me
# [18:13] <Zakim> +anne; got it
# [18:13] <fantasai> Peter: Jason wants to do update on logo contest, anyone else for new topics?
# [18:13] <fantasai> Peter: Melinda's here, so let's get her item done
# [18:13] <fantasai> Topic: Melinda's CSS2.1 Issue
# [18:13] * anne is muted locally, in case anyone wonders why i don't reply to a question directly
# [18:13] <melinda> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Jul/0141.html
# [18:13] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008May/0265.html
# [18:14] <Zakim> +??P34
# [18:14] <fantasai> Elika: those seem to be 2 completely separate issues
# [18:14] <melinda> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008AprJun/0303.html
# [18:15] <fantasai> Melinda: I'm looking at things from testing perspective, and this section raises some questions
# [18:15] <fantasai> (2.3)
# [18:16] <fantasai> Melinda: Looks to me the whole section should be labelled informative
# [18:16] <fantasai> Melinda: given that it's one possible model
# [18:16] <fantasai> Melinda: I thas several problems
# [18:16] <fantasai> Melinda: It says parsing is out-of-scope
# [18:16] <fantasai> Melinda: I don't think parsing is out of scope
# [18:16] <fantasai> Melinda: It also says any discernable output is out of scope
# [18:16] <fantasai> Melinda: so I would conclude that discernable output is not something we can test in the test suite
# [18:17] <fantasai> Melinda: but formatting structure is in scope -- how would be test that?
# [18:17] <fantasai> Melinda proposes:
# [18:17] <fantasai> 1. Label the section as "Informative".
# [18:17] <fantasai> 2. Remove the verbiage at the end of the section regarding what's in and out of scope.
# [18:17] <fantasai> If the group feels that the scoping information is valuable and should be retained, then I would suggest:
# [18:17] <fantasai> 1. Change "Step 1" to "The generation of a document tree"
# [18:17] <fantasai> 2. Change the second line:
# [18:17] <fantasai> - Steps 2-5 are addressed by the bulk of this specification.
# [18:17] <fantasai> + Parsing the source document, Steps 2-4 and Step 6 are addressed by the bulk of this specification.
# [18:17] <fantasai> 3. Change the third line: s/6/5/.
# [18:18] <fantasai> Bert: I think there's a misunderstanding on step one
# [18:18] <fantasai> Bert: Step 1 is about parsing the document, not parsing the style sheet
# [18:18] <fantasai> Melinda: I don't see that in there
# [18:18] <fantasai> Bert: It's talking about the source document
# [18:18] <fantasai> David: The spec is very careful to never refer to the style sheet as the document
# [18:18] <fantasai> David: The document is always the document the style sheet is applying to
# [18:19] <fantasai> Bert: Otherwise, I think it can be explained why step 6 is out of scope
# [18:19] <fantasai> Bert: I don't mind how you interpret it, if you make it informative
# [18:19] <fantasai> Bert: it is effectively informative anyway
# [18:20] <fantasai> No one objects to making this section informative
# [18:21] <fantasai> Bert: for 6, what it's saying is that how the page gets rendered -- whether by api calls to graphics system, emitting PDF, etc, -- that is out of scope
# [18:22] <fantasai> Bert: Changes are, make section informative
# [18:22] <fantasai> Bert: and remove last three sentences
# [18:22] <fantasai> Elika: might need to be careful not to make 2.3.1 informative
# [18:22] <fantasai> ACTION: Elika file an issue about this
# [18:22] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
# [18:22] * RRSAgent records action 1
# [18:22] <trackbot> Created ACTION-77 - File an issue about this [on Elika Etemad - due 2008-07-16].
# [18:23] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal accepted
# [18:23] <fantasai> Topic: Media Queries
# [18:23] <fantasai> Zakim, who is noisy?
# [18:23] <Zakim> fantasai, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (49%), Bert (9%), Melinda_Grant (36%), anne (8%)
# [18:24] <fantasai> Peter: There were some comments on the comments last week
# [18:24] <fantasai> Anne: I haven't gone through them yet
# [18:24] <fantasai> Elika: anything to discuss, or wait until Anne processes feedback
# [18:25] <fantasai> Anne will be on vacation for three weeks starting next thursday, probably won't get it done before then
# [18:25] <fantasai> Anne: Main thing was feedback from dbaron
# [18:25] <fantasai> Anne: I'm not really sure how to deal with it
# [18:25] <fantasai> David: my concern about the error-handling thing is that we have that error-handling interoperably implemented
# [18:26] <fantasai> David: you're proposing making a significant change I'm not sure is better
# [18:26] <fantasai> Anne: It's a change from implementations, not from previous draft
# [18:26] <fantasai> David: We're discussing what happens if you have a syntax error inside an expression
# [18:26] <fantasai> David: anything you don't recognize inside a parenthesized expression
# [18:27] <fantasai> Elika: I think the media query should be dropped.
# [18:27] <fantasai> Elika: I don't mind treating unknown media types as false, but I think invalid syntax and media queries should be ignored
# [18:28] <fantasai> David: So, if we say that if an expression has something unknown inside it then it's false
# [18:28] <fantasai> David: Then either the query or the negation of the query needs to be true
# [18:29] <fantasai> David: the currently-implemented behavior was tested in Acid 3
# [18:29] <fantasai> Anne: It still doesn't make sense.
# [18:29] <fantasai> Anne: The old draft said always false
# [18:30] <fantasai> Anne: Always false doesn't become true when negated
# [18:30] <fantasai> Anne quotes from the spec
# [18:30] <fantasai> David: I guess I'm ok with it as it is then
# [18:31] <fantasai> Anne: I don't really want that the serialized form to contain invalid values
# [18:31] <fantasai> David: You need to talk to hixie about getting Acid 3 changed
# [18:32] <fantasai> Anne: I believe Acid 3 will be changed for some SVG feature anyway
# [18:32] <fantasai> Anne: Implementors are probably ok, since from what I heard it's easy either way
# [18:33] <fantasai> Peter: I think the important thing here is to make sure the behavior is best for forwards-compatibility
# [18:36] <fantasai> Discussion of treatment of unknown media types
# [18:36] <fantasai> David doesn't want to get into the 'aural' vs 'speech' mess
# [18:36] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Unknown media *types* are treated as false: when negated become true.
# [18:37] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Otherwise, invalid media queries are dropped.
# [18:38] <fantasai> Steve: The applies clause had groups named, and I don't know where those are defined.
# [18:38] <fantasai> Anne: They're in CSS2.1 in the Media Types section.
# [18:38] <fantasai> Anne: 7.3.1 introduces Media Groups
# [18:39] <fantasai> Melinda: That section is informative. Does that still work?
# [18:39] <fantasai> Elika: That line in the property definitions is informative, too
# [18:39] <fantasai> Topic: Marquee Module
# [18:40] <fantasai> Elika: I still need to review in detail the definitions and how they relate to writing-mode.
# [18:40] <fantasai> Anne: I'd like to see the relation of marquee and overflow-x and overflow-y addressed.
# [18:40] <fantasai> Anne: I've said this several times before, I don't know why Bert keeps avoiding the issue.
# [18:40] <fantasai> Anne: overflow-x and overflow-y are already implemented
# [18:40] <Zakim> -??P34
# [18:41] <fantasai> Anne: It would be better to address this interaction in the spec than leaving it to implementations to figure out.
# [18:41] <anne> Zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:41] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, Molly_Holzschlag, fantasai, Bert, Arron, Melinda_Grant, George, David_Baron, Ming, sylvaing, +1.408.981.aabb, jason_cranfordtea, anne
# [18:41] <Zakim> +??P20
# [18:42] <fantasai> Zakim, 1.408 is Steve
# [18:42] <Zakim> sorry, fantasai, I do not recognize a party named '1.408'
# [18:42] <fantasai> Zakim, +1.408.981 is SteveZ
# [18:42] <Zakim> +SteveZ; got it
# [18:42] <anne> Zakim, ??P is howcome
# [18:42] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
# [18:42] <anne> Zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:42] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, Molly_Holzschlag, fantasai, Bert, Arron, Melinda_Grant, George, David_Baron, Ming, sylvaing, SteveZ, jason_cranfordtea, anne, howcome
# [18:43] <fantasai> Bert: Can we set a deadline for review of Marquee when we decide to publish it?
# [18:43] <fantasai> Anne: I'm fine with publishing as a working draft, but not with leaving out overflow-x overflow-y
# [18:43] <fantasai> Bert: I'm fine to write a draft with that in it for you, but I don't want Marquee to depend on that
# [18:44] <fantasai> Anne: But the draft should address their interaction
# [18:44] <fantasai> Anne: There are several implementations that support <marquee> and overflow-x and overflow-y
# [18:44] <anne> (I believe Opera actually implements the -wap-marquee stuff too, but I haven't tested it.)
# [18:45] <fantasai> Molly: IIRC there were some i18n issues about those
# [18:45] <anne> And with several above I mean, Internet Explorer, Opera, Firefox, and Safari
# [18:45] <fantasai> Molly: from TPAC F2F
# [18:46] <fantasai> Elika: Are overflow-x and overflow-y absolute or relative?
# [18:46] <fantasai> Anne: I think Markus said they were absolute
# [18:47] <fantasai> Peter: So, what I'm hearing is that Anne wants the interaction of overflow-x and overflow-y and marquee defined
# [18:48] <fantasai> Peter: And Bert is concerned that adding overflow-x and overflow-y will slow down the module
# [18:48] <fantasai> Anne: I don't care where overflow-x and overflow-y are defined, but I want the marquee spec to say /if/ overflow-x and overflow-y are supported, this is how they interact with marquee
# [18:49] <fantasai> Elika: You could put it in and mark overflow-x and overflow-y at risk.
# [18:49] <fantasai> Elika: Then at least the interaction would be defined. And it won't hold back the module because if it's a problem we can drop it
# [18:50] <fantasai> Bert: Marquee basically replaces a scrollbar
# [18:51] <fantasai> Bert: If there is a scrollbar, then overflow-style can make it a marquee
# [18:51] <fantasai> Bert: If there is no scrollbar, it has no effect
# [18:52] <fantasai> Bert explains how marquee works
# [18:52] <fantasai> F2F minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2007OctDec/0267.html
# [18:52] <fantasai> David: I'm not seeing what you just said in the spec
# [18:52] <fantasai> David: It needs to say when you get marquee, for which values of overflow and overflow-style
# [18:54] <fantasai> David: If the answer is, you get a marquee when a scrolling mechanism is present, then you need to say that.
# [18:54] <fantasai> David: Then give an example using different values of overflow.
# [18:55] <fantasai> Anne: What does it mean if there is no overflow, but overflow: scroll is specified?
# [18:55] <fantasai> Anne: would you get a marquee?
# [18:55] <fantasai> Anne: that's probably what you want
# [18:56] <fantasai> Peter: How much time to people need to review?
# [18:56] <fantasai> Anne: Can the draft be moved to public CVS?
# [18:58] <fantasai> Peter: Ok, one week.
# [18:58] <fantasai> Topic: Logo Contest
# [18:58] <fantasai> Jason: I've got the creative brief done.
# [18:59] <fantasai> Jason: I wanted to launch it in conjunction for the site launch
# [18:59] <Zakim> -David_Baron
# [18:59] <fantasai> Jason: Leave a space for the logo, e.g. dotted line "logo goes here"
# [18:59] <fantasai> Jason: Been talking about site, planning to have a soft launch end of July
# [18:59] <Zakim> -anne
# [18:59] <fantasai> Jason: Hard launch around F2F in August
# [19:00] <fantasai> SteveZ: Did you talk to Ian Jacobs at all?
# [19:00] <fantasai> Steve: There's also a redesign of the W3C site going on
# [19:00] <fantasai> Jason: ok, I'll talk to him
# [19:00] <fantasai> Molly: I like the idea, building bridges to community
# [19:01] <fantasai> Melinda: How are we going to choose the logo?
# [19:01] <fantasai> Jason: I've got some rules written up, I'll get those out
# [19:02] <fantasai> Jason: Basically the idea is that we'd vet entries for anything that was obviously inappropriate
# [19:02] <fantasai> Jason: We'd open it up to voting here at AOL, allow the public to choose the logo that they desire
# [19:03] * Quits: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.103) (Quit: sylvaing)
# [19:03] <fantasai> Elika: weren't we going to have the public narrow it down to five, and then some group picks?
# [19:06] <fantasai> some discussion about different ways to pick
# [19:07] <Bert> Ian Jacobs
# [19:07] <fantasai> Agreement that logos public votes on should be everything except ones we cannot use, not some artificially restricted set
# [19:08] <fantasai> Steve, Molly: Need to talk with Ian Jacobs about this
# [19:09] <Zakim> -Arron
# [19:10] <fantasai> Elika: need to present winner to W3C to see if it's acceptable -- maybe it violates some trademark
# [19:10] <fantasai> Elika: then we pick 2nd' place
# [19:10] <Zakim> -sylvaing
# [19:10] <Zakim> -SteveZ
# [19:10] <Zakim> -howcome
# [19:10] <Zakim> -Ming
# [19:10] <Zakim> -plinss
# [19:10] <fantasai> Elika: much easier to analyze one logo than a hundred
# [19:10] <Zakim> -George
# [19:10] <Zakim> -Molly_Holzschlag
# [19:10] * Quits: Ming (ming.gao@15.243.169.71) (Quit: Ming)
# [19:10] <Zakim> -Bert
# [19:10] <fantasai> Meeting closed
# [19:10] * Parts: Molly (Molly@70.171.237.207)
# [19:10] <Zakim> -jason_cranfordtea
# [19:11] <Zakim> -fantasai
# [19:11] <Zakim> -Melinda_Grant
# [19:11] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
# [19:11] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, Molly_Holzschlag, fantasai, Bert, Melinda_Grant, Arron, George, David_Baron, Ming, +1.408.981.aabb, sylvaing, jason_cranfordtea, anne, SteveZ, howcome
# [19:14] <Bert> jason_cranfordtea, fantasai, shall we set aside some specific days for working on the site?
# [19:14] * Parts: jason_cranfordtea (jason_cran@64.236.128.12)
# [19:14] <fantasai> heh
# [19:14] <fantasai> Bert: we will need to do that in preparation for the site's hard launch
# [19:15] <fantasai> Bert: I think the easiest way forward is to gradually prep the site contents by moving over to the template system
# [19:15] <fantasai> Bert: under the current design
# [19:15] <fantasai> Bert: and then when the Jason's design is ready, we just change the templates
# [19:16] <fantasai> Bert: so you and I can maybe spend an hour or two discussing the template system and all your other scripts and how they fit together
# [19:17] <fantasai> Bert: I already have an SSI template system set up on my server that works quite well
# [19:17] <fantasai> Bert: I am not sure about how to handle the translations, though
# [19:17] <Bert> I'd like to try and replace SSI by our "SBP" (Script-Based Publishing), so files are expanded on CVS checkin, rather than on HTTP GET.
# [19:18] <Bert> SSI works, but our servers aren't that big, compared to the load they get.
# [19:19] <Bert> But yes, it shoul dbe possible to change the structure and the style independently from each other.
# [19:20] * fantasai sends you an explanation of the template system
# [19:20] <fantasai> We'll want to be able to do that [sent]
# [19:21] <fantasai> What is SBP?
# [19:21] <fantasai> is it a template system?
# [19:21] <fantasai> or does it just hook up scripts?
# [19:21] <fantasai> If it just hooks up scripts, then I want to hook it up to Perl's Template Toolkit
# [19:21] <fantasai> rather than inventing a template system
# [19:22] <Bert> It is a database of associations between files and scripts: when a new version of the file is checked in, the script is executed.
# [19:22] <Bert> It can execute anything, in principle. I have it hooked to Makefiles, e.g..
# [19:23] <fantasai> ok
# [19:23] <fantasai> this is going to be a mess, then
# [19:23] <fantasai> we'll have to have source and output files littered all over the CVS tree :(
# [19:23] <Bert> I also use cron instead of SBP for some cases. Sometimes there isn't a clear trigger and then cron works better.
# [19:27] <Bert> A mess: yes, we have to try and not invent too much new. The best system would be one that is both already used at W3C and well-known elsewhere...
# [19:28] <Bert> SSI is a very old system, so that's good.
# [19:28] <fantasai> Right, and it's adequate for what we want to do
# [19:28] <fantasai> you're saying we can't use it
# [19:28] <fantasai> right?
# [19:28] <fantasai> So we need something different
# [19:29] <Bert> I can't get a definite answer from our systems people.
# [19:29] <Bert> We can use it, but nobody is able to predict what impact it will have.
# [19:30] <Bert> By far the most problematic traffic is for DTDs and schemas, put the CSS pages are fairly popular, too.
# [19:31] <Bert> The Core Styles are very popular and they have been using SSI for ten years or so, and the server hasn't melted.
# [19:32] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@71.198.188.254) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
# [19:34] <fantasai> Ok, well
# [19:35] * Bert reading fantasai's e-mail...
# [19:37] <Bert> OK, nothing depends on the client, so it will be possible to optimize away SSI if necessary.
# [19:37] <fantasai> ok
# [19:38] <fantasai> so, would it work to try replacing /Style/CSS/Test/ with templatized pages?
# [19:38] <fantasai> using SSI?
# [19:39] <Bert> Not right now, but I'll ask the systeam to enable SSI for that directory.
# [19:39] <fantasai> ok
# [19:39] <fantasai> anything else I'd need to consider?
# [19:40] <Bert> Not based on what you sent me.
# [19:41] <fantasai> k
# [19:41] <fantasai> I'll wait for that request to go through and then give it a try tomorrow or the day after :)
# [20:00] * Parts: George (giorgic@84.215.42.108)
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# [20:38] <Bert> Fantasai, still there?
# [20:45] <Bert> Never mind. Sent e-mail.
# [21:01] <fantasai> got it
# [21:01] <fantasai> thanks :)
# [21:04] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
# [21:04] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
# [21:05] <fantasai> RRSAgent: make logs public
# [21:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, fantasai
# [21:05] <fantasai> RRSAgent: make minutes
# [21:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-css-minutes.html fantasai
# [23:09] * RRSAgent excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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# [23:29] * Quits: melinda (melinda.gr@67.142.45.126) (Quit: melinda)
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# Session Close: Thu Jul 10 00:00:00 2008

The end :)