/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2008-07-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jul 23 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:02] <Bert> Not much. I can do it (tomorrow morning), if you tell me where to fetch it from.
  4. # [02:37] <arronei> dbaron: cvs access
  5. # [02:37] <arronei> which I don't have right now :(
  6. # [02:37] <arronei> err
  7. # [02:37] <arronei> that was fantasai
  8. # [02:38] <arronei> *fantasai can't get a connection to the internet under linux from here
  9. # [02:39] <arronei> dbaron: basically, you need to build the test suite, copy the dist directory into the www.w3.org CVS tree, and check in
  10. # [02:39] <arronei> dbaron: very easy
  11. # [02:40] <dbaron> arronei, yeah, I don't think I have permission to commit to public pages
  12. # [02:42] <arronei> if Bert doesn't get around to it by Wed evening, fantasai will check in for you :)
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  28. # [18:00] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/23-css-irc
  29. # [18:00] <plinss> zakim, this is style
  30. # [18:00] <Zakim> ok, plinss; that matches Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  31. # [18:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  32. # [18:03] <plinss> zakim, [microsoft] has arronei
  33. # [18:03] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  34. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  35. # [18:04] <George> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
  36. # [18:04] <Zakim> +George; got it
  37. # [18:04] <Zakim> +fantasai
  38. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Melinda_Grant
  39. # [18:06] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  40. # [18:07] <fantasai> I'm likely to leave early, so someone else will need to take over minutes
  41. # [18:07] * Joins: melinda (melinda.gr@67.142.45.126)
  42. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  43. # [18:09] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  44. # [18:09] * Bert was held up, will join in a minute
  45. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Bert
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  49. # [18:13] <fantasai> Peter: Anything to add to agenda?
  50. # [18:13] <fantasai> Melinda: Hoping for a brief discussion about where the definition of what's required for support for 'style' attribute
  51. # [18:15] <fantasai> fantasai: We could rip out all new functionality in the style attr draft and publish that: that's what Tantek suggested. It's not defined anywhere in 2.1
  52. # [18:15] <fantasai> Topic: Agenda for F2F
  53. # [18:15] <fantasai> Peter: We don't have enough topics to fill a 3-day meeting yet
  54. # [18:15] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241)
  55. # [18:15] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  56. # [18:16] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
  57. # [18:16] <fantasai> Peter: I was thinking we should put up a page on the wiki and have people fill in
  58. # [18:16] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  59. # [18:16] <fantasai> Peter: I'd like to keep the F2F primarily technical, focus on things that benefit from us all being in the same room
  60. # [18:16] <fantasai> Peter: We will filter and sort as time goes on
  61. # [18:16] <dbaron> Zakim, [Mozilla] has David_Baron
  62. # [18:16] <Zakim> +David_Baron; got it
  63. # [18:16] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  64. # [18:16] * Zakim sees on the phone: plinss, [Microsoft], George, fantasai, Melinda_Grant, [Microsoft.a], SteveZ, Bert, [Mozilla]
  65. # [18:16] <fantasai> Topic: Marquee
  66. # [18:16] * Zakim [Microsoft] has arronei
  67. # [18:17] * Zakim [Mozilla] has David_Baron
  68. # [18:17] <fantasai> fantasai: Still waiting for Bert to reply
  69. # [18:17] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has salonir, sylvaing
  70. # [18:17] <Zakim> +salonir, sylvaing; got it
  71. # [18:17] <fantasai> fantasai: last I spec
  72. # [18:17] * Joins: jason_cranfordtea (jason_cran@64.236.128.12)
  73. # [18:17] <Zakim> +jason_cranfordtea
  74. # [18:17] * dbaron RRSAgent, pointer?
  75. # [18:17] * RRSAgent See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/23-css-irc#T16-13-29
  76. # [18:17] * dbaron RRSAgent, make logs public
  77. # [18:17] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, dbaron
  78. # [18:17] <fantasai> s/spec/checked/
  79. # [18:19] <fantasai> Bert: I was thinking we should just remove any mention of vertical text
  80. # [18:20] <fantasai> Bert: We can't test it until Text Layout is done
  81. # [18:20] <fantasai> fantasai: I'm pretty sure we can write the text so it works in the future, but testing would be a blocker for getting to REC
  82. # [18:21] <fantasai> Melinda: Should we ask OMA? If they're doing vertical text, then they'll want these definitions
  83. # [18:22] <fantasai> ACTION: Bert Ask OMA what mobile world thinks about removing vertical text descriptions from Marquee
  84. # [18:22] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  85. # [18:22] * RRSAgent records action 1
  86. # [18:22] <trackbot> Created ACTION-81 - Ask OMA what mobile world thinks about removing vertical text descriptions from Marquee [on Bert Bos - due 2008-07-30].
  87. # [18:22] <fantasai> Peter: If they say they need it, they better be prepared to provide an implementation of it
  88. # [18:23] <fantasai> Bert: Someone said he has test reports for marquee, needs to work on them a bit more first but will send them to me
  89. # [18:23] <fantasai> Peter: So are we agreed that unless Mobile needs vertical, we remove it from the draft?
  90. # [18:24] <fantasai> Steve: I think that's a good idea. We should keep vertical in mind, though.
  91. # [18:25] <fantasai> Peter: Yeah. We don't want to block ourselves in the future, but we don't want to be blocked by vertical
  92. # [18:26] <fantasai> Bert: Good topic for F2F?
  93. # [18:26] <fantasai> fantasai: yeah. We should take some time to define terminology that we can use and refer to from other specs
  94. # [18:26] <fantasai> fantasai: That way the specs don't have to depend on how vertical text is done exactly, but we can make sure layout models in e.g. CSS3 Multi-col can add the few sentences necessary to say how vertical layout is analogous
  95. # [18:27] <fantasai> Steve: Would be a good candidate for a W3C Note
  96. # [18:28] <fantasai> Bert asks about "primary paragraph direction" and fantasai explains about bidi
  97. # [18:29] <fantasai> Steve: One of the topics for discussion at the F2F is what set of things ought to be considered content for that note
  98. # [18:29] <fantasai> Steve: Obviously some of the things we're talking about, but perhaps more than that.
  99. # [18:29] <fantasai> Steve: I know that fantasai and Paul and I put together some terminology
  100. # [18:29] <fantasai> Bert: Sounds like a req document for text module
  101. # [18:29] <fantasai> Steve: A bit more than that. Background, or something
  102. # [18:30] <fantasai> Steve: It's not just the text module, also applies to box moduel and others
  103. # [18:30] <fantasai> s/moduel/module/
  104. # [18:30] <fantasai> ACTION: fantasai add Note about vertical text terminology to F2F agenda
  105. # [18:30] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  106. # [18:30] * RRSAgent records action 2
  107. # [18:30] <trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Add Note about vertical text terminology to F2F agenda [on Elika Etemad - due 2008-07-30].
  108. # [18:31] <fantasai> Topic: Case-sensitivity and lang attribute in XML
  109. # [18:31] <fantasai> Peter: XML says that attribute values are case-sensitive
  110. # [18:31] <fantasai> Peter: It also says that xml:lang takes lang codes, and lang codes are case-insensitive
  111. # [18:32] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2008Jul/att-0026/xmllang.xhtml
  112. # [18:34] <dbaron> Even if xml:lang is defined to be case-insensitive, it's not necessarily case-insensitive at a level that CSS wants to know about.
  113. # [18:35] <fantasai> fantasai argues that we need to decouple [lang|=] and :lang(), and that :lang() should be case-insensitive per CSS
  114. # [18:36] <fantasai> and we should add a note saying whether xml:lang is case-sensitive or case-insensitive when matched against with Selectors
  115. # [18:36] <fantasai> Peter: I agree with that. I think :lang() should be very simple to use, have a consistent way of matching against the languages
  116. # [18:37] <fantasai> Peter: If a document language uses some other convention than RFC3066, then :lang(en) should still match English
  117. # [18:38] <fantasai> Peter: The language may not be coming from an attribute. It might be coming from an element, or an HTTP header. We don't know and we shouldn't care
  118. # [18:38] <fantasai> Melinda agrees with this proposal
  119. # [18:39] <fantasai> Peter: Do we have consensus that this is how the pseudo-class should work?
  120. # [18:43] <fantasai> Steve argues that CSS should define exactly which mechanisms can define language, Melinda and Peter and Elika argue that the definition should be generic and refer to the specs for the document language.
  121. # [18:48] <fantasai> Peter: I think we have agreement on how we want the lang attribute to work
  122. # [18:49] <fantasai> Peter: I think we have agreement to refer to other specs and explain how they work here
  123. # [18:49] <fantasai> Peter: The only disagreement is whether those references should be normative or informative
  124. # [18:55] <fantasai> ACTION: fantasai come up with wording for lang issue
  125. # [18:55] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  126. # [18:55] * RRSAgent records action 3
  127. # [18:55] <trackbot> Created ACTION-83 - Come up with wording for lang issue [on Elika Etemad - due 2008-07-30].
  128. # [18:55] <fantasai> Topic: CSS2.1 Issues
  129. # [18:55] <plinss> http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-35
  130. # [18:56] <fantasai> fantasai: need hyatt for that one
  131. # [18:56] <plinss> http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-45
  132. # [18:56] <fantasai> http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-45
  133. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai: it's just a clarification, doesn't change anything
  134. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai: Alex asked for it, because IE had a wrong interpretation of this case before
  135. # [18:59] <fantasai> Alex explains
  136. # [18:59] <fantasai> Alex: It's pretty hard to get a precise definition here, but we have good interoperability on this point
  137. # [19:01] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has alexmog
  138. # [19:01] <Zakim> +alexmog; got it
  139. # [19:06] <fantasai> discussion of whether the antecedent of "this" in the proposed note is clear
  140. # [19:08] <fantasai> Steve proposes s/this/this hypothetical calculation/
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  142. # [19:08] <fantasai> RESOLVED: proposal for issue 45 accepted
  143. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
  144. # [19:08] <Zakim> -jason_cranfordtea
  145. # [19:08] <Zakim> -fantasai
  146. # [19:08] <Zakim> -Melinda_Grant
  147. # [19:08] <Zakim> -George
  148. # [19:08] * Parts: George (giorgic@84.215.42.108)
  149. # [19:08] <Zakim> -plinss
  150. # [19:08] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  151. # [19:08] <Zakim> -Bert
  152. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  153. # [19:09] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  154. # [19:09] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  155. # [19:09] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, arronei, George, fantasai, Melinda_Grant, [Microsoft], SteveZ, Bert, David_Baron, salonir, sylvaing, jason_cranfordtea, alexmog
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The end :)