/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2008-10-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Oct 01 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:05] * Quits: glazou (daniel@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
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  18. # [17:56] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  19. # [17:56] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-css-irc
  20. # [17:56] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  21. # [17:56] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
  22. # [18:04] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  23. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.206.324.aaaa
  24. # [18:04] <glazou> This will be my 4th conf call in a row, please excuse if some of my neurones fused...
  25. # [18:04] <Zakim> +plinss
  26. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +95089aabb
  27. # [18:05] <glazou> Zakim, +95089aabb is me
  28. # [18:05] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  29. # [18:05] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@98.232.24.220)
  30. # [18:07] * Joins: jason_cranfordtea (jason_cran@64.236.128.12)
  31. # [18:07] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  32. # [18:07] <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.206.324.aaaa, plinss, glazou
  33. # [18:07] <Zakim> + +1.425.533.aacc
  34. # [18:07] <glazou> Zakim, +1.206.324.aaaa is sylvaing
  35. # [18:07] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
  36. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  37. # [18:08] <dbaron> Zakim, [Mozilla] has David_Baron
  38. # [18:08] <Zakim> +David_Baron; got it
  39. # [18:08] <dbaron> Zakim, who is noisy?
  40. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.703.265.aadd
  41. # [18:08] <glazou> regrets from molly and jeffrey
  42. # [18:08] <Zakim> dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (66%), ??P22 (38%)
  43. # [18:09] <glazou> Zakim, +1.703.265.aadd is jason_cranfordtea
  44. # [18:09] <Zakim> +jason_cranfordtea; got it
  45. # [18:09] <Zakim> -glazou
  46. # [18:09] <dbaron> yeah, the tapping noise was glazou
  47. # [18:09] <Zakim> +glazou
  48. # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P31
  49. # [18:09] <Zakim> +DaveS
  50. # [18:10] <glazou> Zakim, +??P31 is fantasai
  51. # [18:10] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '+??P31'
  52. # [18:10] <glazou> Zakim, ??P31 is fantasai
  53. # [18:10] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  54. # [18:10] <arronei> I'm only on IRC today.
  55. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Bert
  56. # [18:11] * Joins: fantasai_ (fantasai@24.5.196.255)
  57. # [18:11] <glazou> hi arronei, np
  58. # [18:12] <fantasai_> ScribeNick: fantasai_
  59. # [18:12] <arronei> Hi, its my birthday today so I am trying to take it easy.
  60. # [18:12] <fantasai_> Happy Birthday :)
  61. # [18:12] <glazou> happy birthday arronei!!!!!
  62. # [18:12] <Bert> Congratulations!
  63. # [18:12] <glazou> what are doing here then ?
  64. # [18:12] <glazou> you
  65. # [18:12] * Joins: SaloniR (43b68321@128.30.52.43)
  66. # [18:12] <arronei> I still love CSS.
  67. # [18:12] <glazou> ROTFL
  68. # [18:12] <Bert> :-)
  69. # [18:12] <sylvaing> ...against all odds...
  70. # [18:12] <jason_cranfordtea> well why don't you marry it then
  71. # [18:13] <Bert> lol
  72. # [18:13] <glazou> lol
  73. # [18:13] <plinss> zakim, +1.425.533 is SaloniR
  74. # [18:13] <Zakim> +SaloniR; got it
  75. # [18:13] <arronei> no marriage is a bit too far for me right now
  76. # [18:13] <fantasai_> Daniel: Any other items for agenda?
  77. # [18:14] <fantasai_> Daniel: I tried to get agenda items from both mailing lists, let me know if I missed any
  78. # [18:14] <fantasai_> Topic: Charter
  79. # [18:14] <fantasai_> Daniel: Charter was sent by IJ to list of AC reps for approval and vote
  80. # [18:14] <fantasai_> Daniel: In case they missed it, I suggest you ping your AC reps to let them know that the charter is up for approval
  81. # [18:15] <fantasai_> Daniel: In the voter form, the AC rep needs to indicate intent or not to join WG
  82. # [18:15] <fantasai_> Daniel: It's important, please don't miss it
  83. # [18:15] <fantasai_> Topic: CSS3 Marquee
  84. # [18:15] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008JulSep/0248.html
  85. # [18:15] <fantasai_> Daniel: First issue is about potential change in 'direction' of marquee
  86. # [18:16] <glazou> Note that the 'direction' property is often set by rules
  87. # [18:16] <glazou> in the UA style sheet based on mark-up in the document, as
  88. # [18:16] <glazou> recommended in CSS 2.1 [CSS21] section 9.10 ("Text direction:
  89. # [18:16] <glazou> the 'direction' and 'unicode-bidi' properties").
  90. # [18:17] * Quits: fantasai (fantasai@66.252.19.122) (Ping timeout)
  91. # [18:18] * Joins: fantasai (fantasai@66.252.19.122)
  92. # [18:18] <fantasai_> fantasai: works for me, I think we should add it
  93. # [18:18] <fantasai_> RESOLVED: Accepted to add Bert's note
  94. # [18:19] <fantasai_> Daniel: Question is shall we publish css3-marquee as CR.
  95. # [18:19] <fantasai_> Daniel: Got 2 comments from i18n, above and one other, both are resolved.
  96. # [18:19] <fantasai_> Daniel: Any objections to moving to CR?
  97. # [18:19] <fantasai_> RESOLVED: Publish CSS3 Marquee as CR
  98. # [18:20] <fantasai_> ACTION: Bert publish CSS3 Marquee as CR
  99. # [18:20] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  100. # [18:20] * RRSAgent records action 1
  101. # [18:20] <trackbot> Created ACTION-109 - Publish CSS3 Marquee as CR [on Bert Bos - due 2008-10-08].
  102. # [18:20] <fantasai_> ScribeNick: fantasai
  103. # [18:20] * Quits: fantasai_ (fantasai@24.5.196.255) (Quit: leaving)
  104. # [18:20] <fantasai> Topic: CSS2.1
  105. # [18:20] <fantasai> Daniel: Many recent comments about spec, mostly from Saloni
  106. # [18:20] <fantasai> Daniel: First one
  107. # [18:21] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0198.html
  108. # [18:21] <fantasai> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008OctDec/0000.html
  109. # [18:21] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0198.html
  110. # [18:21] <Bert> (Publishing moratorium is 13 Oct - 27 Oct)
  111. # [18:21] <fantasai> Peter: The more I think about it, the more I think we should not allow comments in URLs
  112. # [18:22] <fantasai> Peter: comment delimiters are valid URL syntax, and URLs have a special tokenization
  113. # [18:22] <fantasai> Peter: you're not in normal CSS rules
  114. # [18:22] <fantasai> Peter: There are places where you can determine whether it's a comment or part of URL
  115. # [18:22] <fantasai> Peter: other places where you can't
  116. # [18:22] <fantasai> dbaron: Are there any browsers that don't do what you think we should do?
  117. # [18:23] <fantasai> Peter: I talked with zweinberg
  118. # [18:23] <fantasai> Peter: Opera does not allow comments within parentheses
  119. # [18:23] <fantasai> dbaron: I'm ok with the proposal given that
  120. # [18:23] <fantasai> Jason: I did a quick search, don't see anyone using it as a hack either
  121. # [18:23] <dbaron> I agree with Peter about how it should work.
  122. # [18:23] <fantasai> dbaron: IE7 and Gecko allow comments
  123. # [18:24] <dbaron> s/dbaron:/Peter:/
  124. # [18:24] <fantasai> Daniel: So if proposal is accepted, there's no change for Opera, slight change for Mozilla and IE
  125. # [18:24] <fantasai> Daniel: David is ok with it
  126. # [18:24] <fantasai> Daniel: What about MS?
  127. # [18:25] <fantasai> dsinger: Anyone know about webkit?
  128. # [18:25] <Bert> Konqueror seems not to allow comments.
  129. # [18:25] <fantasai> ACTION: Saloni return to WG with response about whether proposal is accepted
  130. # [18:25] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  131. # [18:25] * RRSAgent records action 2
  132. # [18:25] <trackbot> Created ACTION-110 - Return to WG with response about whether proposal is accepted [on Saloni Mira Rai - due 2008-10-08].
  133. # [18:25] <Bert> Webkit seems the same as Konqueror.
  134. # [18:25] <fantasai> dbaron: So my understanding is no change to the spec
  135. # [18:25] <fantasai> Daniel: We might need a note saying that it's explicitly forbidden
  136. # [18:26] <fantasai> Peter: There are various bits of text in the spec that talk about comments
  137. # [18:26] <fantasai> Peter: Saying that they're allowed between any tokens
  138. # [18:26] <fantasai> Peter: and URL is one token
  139. # [18:27] <fantasai> ACTION: Peter create note about how URL has its own syntax and parsing rules
  140. # [18:27] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  141. # [18:27] * RRSAgent records action 3
  142. # [18:27] <trackbot> Created ACTION-111 - Create note about how URL has its own syntax and parsing rules [on Peter Linss - due 2008-10-08].
  143. # [18:27] <fantasai> Peter: I also noticed that the grammar for URL leaves out a-z and 0-9
  144. # [18:27] <fantasai> dbaron: There might be a range in there that doesn't look like a range
  145. # [18:27] <fantasai> Peter: I didn't see one
  146. # [18:27] <fantasai> dbaron: *-~ is a range, and includes everything you mentioned
  147. # [18:28] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0228.html
  148. # [18:29] <fantasai> fantasai: I am strongly in agreement with the proposal
  149. # [18:31] * Joins: MoZ (chatzilla@82.230.92.154)
  150. # [18:31] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-74
  151. # [18:31] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Accepted
  152. # [18:31] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0152.html
  153. # [18:31] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52)
  154. # [18:31] <fantasai> Saloni: With fixed table layout in CSS, if a row has more columns than the first row
  155. # [18:31] <fantasai> Saloni: The spec says you shouldn't render those columns, but the browsers actually do render those cells
  156. # [18:32] <fantasai> Saloni: I understand the value of fixed layout, I think it's important
  157. # [18:32] * MoZ has been taken away by an unattended meeting, please accept my regrets
  158. # [18:32] <glazou> np Moz
  159. # [18:32] <fantasai> Saloni: So I propose relaxing the requirement in CSS2.1, and then clarify in CSS3 what exactly should happen
  160. # [18:32] <glazou> regrets now: molly, jeffrey, mohamed
  161. # [18:33] <fantasai> dbaron: That would leave internal contradictions in the spec
  162. # [18:33] <fantasai> fantasai: we could say that if there are extra cells, rendering is undefined
  163. # [18:34] <fantasai> fantasai: or at least the widths of columns and the table are undefined
  164. # [18:34] <sylvaing> agrees with Elika+Saloni
  165. # [18:34] <fantasai> Saloni: So we'd be saying if you have fixed table layout, and extra cells, the layout is undefined
  166. # [18:37] <fantasai> ACTION: Saloni propose text for CSS2.1 Issue 75
  167. # [18:37] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  168. # [18:37] * RRSAgent records action 4
  169. # [18:37] <trackbot> Created ACTION-112 - Propose text for CSS2.1 Issue 75 [on Saloni Mira Rai - due 2008-10-08].
  170. # [18:37] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0153.html
  171. # [18:37] <Zakim> -DaveS
  172. # [18:37] <fantasai> Saloni: That's resolved, we got an explanation of why this rule is in place
  173. # [18:37] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0229.html
  174. # [18:38] <Zakim> +DaveS
  175. # [18:39] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-76
  176. # [18:40] <Zakim> -DaveS
  177. # [18:41] <dsinger> at&t signal trouble, sorry
  178. # [18:41] <glazou> np dsinger
  179. # [18:41] <Zakim> +jcraig
  180. # [18:41] <dsinger> no, the apple call is not jcraig but dsinger
  181. # [18:41] * Joins: anne (annevk@12.198.177.3)
  182. # [18:42] <fantasai> When formatting content in the page model, some content may end up outside the *current* page box. For example, an element whose 'white-space' property has the value 'pre' may generate a box that is wider than the page box. Also, when boxes are positioned absolutely *or relatively*, they may end up in "inconvenient" locations. For example, images may be placed on the edge of the page box or 100,000 meters below the page box.
  183. # [18:44] <fantasai> Daniel: Change "Also" to "As another example"
  184. # [18:44] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Accepted above proposal
  185. # [18:44] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0233.html
  186. # [18:46] <fantasai> Daniel: "Parts of the fixed position box that are not visible in the initial containing block will not print"
  187. # [18:47] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal accepted with above change.
  188. # [18:47] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0232.html
  189. # [18:47] * Parts: anne (annevk@12.198.177.3)
  190. # [18:48] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-77
  191. # [18:49] <glazou> plinss, can you take the floor for a minute please ?
  192. # [18:50] <glazou> or Bert ?
  193. # [18:50] * glazou needs to urgently fix something here
  194. # [18:50] * Bert waiting for plinss to go first...
  195. # [18:52] <fantasai> Added to agenda for TPAC
  196. # [18:52] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0230.html
  197. # [18:52] * glazou is back thanks plinss
  198. # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: Jason, I think we'll want your feedback on this issue
  199. # [18:57] <Bert> (Prince shows a third option: the box is 500px high on *both* pages. I don't particularly like that solution.)
  200. # [18:57] <Bert> s/third/fourth/
  201. # [18:57] * glazou is with Bert here
  202. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai: So I think the distance between the bottom of the last content on the page that fit and the bottom of the page should not count as part of the used height
  203. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai: So in this case you would still have used height left over that you use on the next page
  204. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai: Whether the background prints in that space is a separate issue
  205. # [19:00] <fantasai> Jason: I should be able to be online 9-5 EST during TPAC
  206. # [19:00] <fantasai> Daniel: Postponed to TPAC
  207. # [19:00] <fantasai> Topic: Media Queries
  208. # [19:00] <glazou> postponed
  209. # [19:00] <fantasai> dbaron: Given that anne isn't here, we should postpone that one
  210. # [19:02] <Zakim> -SaloniR
  211. # [19:02] <Zakim> -jason_cranfordtea
  212. # [19:02] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
  213. # [19:02] <Zakim> -jcraig
  214. # [19:02] <Zakim> -plinss
  215. # [19:02] <Zakim> -fantasai
  216. # [19:02] <Zakim> -sylvaing
  217. # [19:02] <Zakim> -glazou
  218. # [19:02] <glazou> plinss: ping
  219. # [19:02] <Zakim> -Bert
  220. # [19:02] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  221. # [19:02] <plinss> ack
  222. # [19:02] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, glazou, +1.425.533.aacc, sylvaing, David_Baron, jason_cranfordtea, DaveS, fantasai, Bert, SaloniR, jcraig
  223. # [19:02] <dbaron> Oh, the TPAC is a week further away than I was thinking it was.
  224. # [19:02] <dsinger> jcraig was an illusion
  225. # [19:02] <dsinger> that was me
  226. # [19:03] <glazou> dsinger: tss tss :-)
  227. # [19:04] <dsinger> I don't know how to tell Zakim that that is the apple corporate line (I re-dialed from my desk)
  228. # [19:05] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52) (Quit: dsinger)
  229. # [19:05] * Quits: glazou (daniel@82.247.96.19) (Quit: bbl)
  230. # [19:13] * Quits: SaloniR (43b68321@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  231. # [19:16] <dbaron> I emailed dsinger with the URL http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3
  232. # [19:28] * Quits: jason_cranfordtea (jason_cran@64.236.128.12) (Quit: jason_cranfordtea)
  233. # [19:41] * Quits: sylvaing (sylvaing@98.232.24.220) (Ping timeout)
  234. # [19:43] <fantasai> RRSAgent: make logs public
  235. # [19:43] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, fantasai
  236. # [20:05] <fantasai> Bert, let me know when you get around to making all the outstanding CSS2.1 edits
  237. # [20:12] <fantasai> RRSAgent: make minutes
  238. # [20:12] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/01-css-minutes.html fantasai
  239. # [20:24] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  240. # [20:24] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  241. # [21:14] * Joins: nickshanks (nickshanks@88.217.192.121)
  242. # [22:00] * Joins: anne (annevk@12.198.177.3)
  243. # [22:01] <anne> my apologies, I was at the Ajax Experience
  244. # [22:05] * Quits: MoZ (chatzilla@82.230.92.154) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092414])
  245. # [23:11] * Quits: anne (annevk@12.198.177.3) (Ping timeout)
  246. # [23:56] * Quits: nickshanks (nickshanks@88.217.192.121) (Quit: nickshanks)
  247. # Session Close: Thu Oct 02 00:00:00 2008

The end :)