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- # Session Start: Wed Mar 25 00:00:00 2009
- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [16:50] <fantasai> glazou, do we have a meeting soonish?
- # [16:51] <glazou> in 13 minutes yes
- # [16:51] <fantasai> ok
- # [16:51] <fantasai> I'm not sure I will be able to call in, but I'll be on IRC
- # [16:52] <glazou> ok
- # [16:52] <glazou> thanks for letting me know
- # [16:52] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
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- # [16:52] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/25-css-irc
- # [16:52] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
- # [16:52] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
- # [16:54] <fantasai> wow
- # [16:54] <fantasai> Skype works over this connection
- # [16:54] <fantasai> I am so impressed
- # [16:54] * fantasai can't even connect to IMAP
- # [16:56] <glazou> fantasai: : so you'll be on the call?
- # [16:56] <fantasai> I think so
- # [16:56] <fantasai> unless the connection to w3c is significantly worse than to skype test call
- # [16:57] <glazou> ok
- # [16:58] <glazou> Zakim, code ?
- # [16:58] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), glazou
- # [16:58] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- # [16:58] <Zakim> +glazou
- # [17:00] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
- # [17:00] <glazou> Zakim: IPCaller is fantasai
- # [17:00] <glazou> Zakim, IPCaller is fantasai
- # [17:00] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
- # [17:01] * fantasai goes to look for a microphone
- # [17:02] <Zakim> + +1.858.216.aaaa
- # [17:02] <plinss> zakim, +1.858.216 is me
- # [17:02] <Zakim> +plinss; got it
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- # [17:04] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
- # [17:04] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
- # [17:05] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has alexmog
- # [17:05] <Zakim> +alexmog; got it
- # [17:05] <Zakim> +??P20
- # [17:06] <ChrisL> zakim, ??P20 is me
- # [17:06] <Zakim> +ChrisL; got it
- # [17:06] * sylvaing thinks glazou was really saying the US do not comply with the standard...
- # [17:06] <Zakim> +Melinda_Grant
- # [17:06] * fantasai waves to Melinda
- # [17:07] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has arronei
- # [17:07] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
- # [17:07] * Joins: melinda (melinda.gr@67.47.246.6)
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- # [17:08] <fantasai> melinda, I made a number of edits to css3-page, but I haven't checked in yet
- # [17:08] <fantasai> melinda, don't have net access under linux from here, hopefully will get a chance next week
- # [17:08] <melinda> fantasai, k, cool.
- # [17:08] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
- # [17:09] <fantasai> fantasai doesn't have email access this week
- # [17:09] <melinda> fantasai, I may have a few locally that we'll need to merge in...
- # [17:09] * ChrisL if you scribe on irc I can send out the minutes
- # [17:09] <fantasai> Topic: Agenda
- # [17:09] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aabb
- # [17:09] <fantasai> Topic: F2F Meeting in the Fall
- # [17:09] <fantasai> glazou: deadline for 18th of March for TPAC was extended to April 2
- # [17:09] <ChrisL> zakim, +47 is Howcome
- # [17:09] <Zakim> +Howcome; got it
- # [17:10] <fantasai> glazou: The number of groups planning to meet is already above expectations
- # [17:10] <fantasai> glazou: joint meeting with SVG Open?
- # [17:10] <fantasai> chrisl: That was a fallback if the main meeting didn't go through
- # [17:11] <fantasai> glazou: I guess we have to find another location for the f2f
- # [17:11] * fantasai didn't understand that at all
- # [17:11] <fantasai> glazou: We still have time to find another spot for the TPAC
- # [17:11] <fantasai> alexmog: Why?
- # [17:12] <fantasai> glazou: THere's not enough room at TPAC, too many groups
- # [17:12] <fantasai> alexmog: I thought we were going to go with SVG Open because the groups we wanted to meet with weren't going to be at TPAC
- # [17:12] * shepazu no way... too many groups?
- # [17:12] <fantasai> chrisl: They downsized the venue
- # [17:13] * shepazu oy vey!
- # [17:13] <fantasai> Topic: Agenda Items
- # [17:13] * sylvaing votes for russian mafia tpac
- # [17:13] <fantasai> glazou: I was too busy to read all the comments
- # [17:13] <fantasai> glazou: Anybody have anything to add, please ask now
- # [17:13] <fantasai> Bert: Is howcome's draft ready for publication or not?
- # [17:14] <fantasai> Bert: GCPM or multicol?
- # [17:14] <fantasai> howcome: They're not done yet, will be done next week
- # [17:14] <fantasai> Bert: css3-namespaces?
- # [17:14] <fantasai> fantasai: not done yet
- # [17:14] <glazou> shepazu: can you be on the call ?
- # [17:14] <glazou> for item 5 on agenda
- # [17:15] <fantasai> glazou: anything else?
- # [17:15] <fantasai> glazou: Sylvain?
- # [17:15] <shepazu> sure
- # [17:15] <fantasai> sylvain: We wanted to know if another CSS2.1 draft would be published soon
- # [17:15] <glazou> thx
- # [17:15] <fantasai> sylvain: Also wanted to know if anything about test suite will be on the agenda for June F2F
- # [17:15] <fantasai> sylvain: So we know whether to budget in Arron
- # [17:16] <fantasai> glazou: June F2F agenda is open for suggestions
- # [17:16] <fantasai> glazou: please suggest something more detailed than just "Test Suite"
- # [17:16] <fantasai> glazou: Holiday season starts in June, so please plan your hotels earlyu
- # [17:17] <fantasai> Topic: Follow-up on @import
- # [17:17] <fantasai> glazou: Is this resolved? I saw Sylvain follow-up on this on the mailing list
- # [17:17] <fantasai> sylvain: I believed we solved this in Tokyo
- # [17:18] <fantasai> Topic: Implementation Status Reports
- # [17:18] <fantasai> glazou: Mozilla and Antenna House posted detailed implementation reports to www-style
- # [17:18] <ChrisL> these are for css 2.1, or for 3?
- # [17:18] <melinda> Chris, both
- # [17:18] <fantasai> glazou: I think David Baron has in mind some coordination among browsers
- # [17:18] <fantasai> glazou: wrt implementation of CSS features for the Web
- # [17:18] <fantasai> glazou: I encourage other browser vendors to do the same
- # [17:19] <fantasai> glazou: If Opera, Microsoft, Apple can send this information to www-style as well, that would be very cool
- # [17:19] <fantasai> Topic: :not() and pseudo-elements
- # [17:19] <fantasai> glazou: There's a clarification to make in the spec
- # [17:20] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0193.html
- # [17:20] <fantasai> glazou: Sylvain posted a clarification
- # [17:20] <fantasai> glazou: I think David posted something else
- # [17:20] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0195.html
- # [17:20] <fantasai> glazou: fantasai also said that she expects a future version of Selectors to accept more in :not() than a simple selectors
- # [17:21] <fantasai> glazou: Sylvain, which proposal do you prefer?
- # [17:21] * fantasai hasn't seen these eyt
- # [17:21] * shepazu Zakim, call shepazu
- # [17:21] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
- # [17:21] <Zakim> +Shepazu
- # [17:21] <fantasai> glazou: I think David's proposal is more complete
- # [17:21] <fantasai> sylvain: My proposal was just a clarification
- # [17:21] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
- # [17:21] <fantasai> glazou: Is everyone ok with David's proposal?
- # [17:22] <glazou> #The negation pseudo-class, :not(X), is a functional notation taking a simple selector (excluding the negation pseudo-
- # [17:22] <glazou> #class itself) as an argument. It represents an element that is not represented by the argument.
- # [17:22] <glazou> #Note: Appending a pseudo-element to a simple selector results in a selector; selectors are not valid negation pseudo
- # [17:22] <glazou> #class arguments.
- # [17:24] <fantasai> Peter: The note doesn't clarify that a pseudo-element by itself is not a simple selector
- # [17:25] <fantasai> fantasai proposese addding a Note that says "SInce pseudo-elements are not simple selectors, they are not a valid argument to :not9)"
- # [17:25] <fantasai> minus the typos :)
- # [17:27] <fantasai> RESOLVED: sylvain+fantasai's proposal accepted
- # [17:27] <fantasai> Topic: CSS+SVG Task Force
- # [17:27] <fantasai> Shepazu to summarize
- # [17:27] <fantasai> Doug: This basically started as something regarding transforms and animations
- # [17:27] <fantasai> Doug: David Singer thought it would be a good idea for general coordination
- # [17:28] <fantasai> Doug: It would also involve animations, transitions, other little issues that might pop up
- # [17:28] <fantasai> Doug: I'm just suggesting we make a mailing list
- # [17:28] <fantasai> Doug: So we don't have to keep cross-posting
- # [17:28] <fantasai> glazou: Dean Jackson says he's ok with a mailing list, but not a sub-group
- # [17:29] <fantasai> Doug: THere isn't really any formaility to a task force
- # [17:29] <fantasai> chrisl: It's just somewhere that we can post to
- # [17:29] <fantasai> Melinda: My question, this has started off as being specific to 2d-3d transforms
- # [17:29] <fantasai> Melinda: but then became more general
- # [17:29] <fantasai> Melinda: If it was just about transofrms, then I wouldn't want to subscribe
- # [17:30] <fantasai> Melinda: If it's more general, maybe discussion of image-fit/image-scaling
- # [17:30] <fantasai> Melinda: Then I need to subscribe
- # [17:30] <fantasai> Melinda: Wheres' the efficiency benefit
- # [17:30] <fantasai> ChrisL: It's avoiding cross-posting and diverging threads
- # [17:31] <fantasai> glazou: My problem with the separate group
- # [17:31] <fantasai> glazou: is that the wg memebers are supposed to keep track of everything that's going on, even if it's not of direct concern to them
- # [17:31] <fantasai> Doug: My concern wrt transforms, especially
- # [17:32] <fantasai> Doug: we are both working on different proposals that may end up being the same proposal
- # [17:32] <fantasai> Doug: If people are sending feedback ...
- # [17:32] <fantasai> Doug: The SVG WG has already gotten feedback about our trnasforms module
- # [17:32] <fantasai> Doug: It's got sent to the public SVG mailing list
- # [17:32] <fantasai> Doug: At what point are we going to be able to .. I'm concerned that emails going to get sent to both lists
- # [17:32] <fantasai> Doug: separately
- # [17:33] <fantasai> Doug: And we're not going to coordinate
- # [17:33] <fantasai> Doug: For SVG group, we just can't track everything that flows throught he www-style list
- # [17:33] <fantasai> ChrisL: It's much more efficient for someone from the csswg to subscribe to just the joint task force list, and not to all the svg lists
- # [17:34] <fantasai> Doug: For those of us that are subscribed to both lists, it's a big savings for the SVG group so we dont' ahve to track everything
- # [17:34] <fantasai> Doug: I'm sure you can have the joint mailing list shoved in a filter so it comes to your attention with CSS
- # [17:35] <fantasai> Doug: Also, if you're not interested in transforms you don't have to mointor the list for the next few months
- # [17:35] <fantasai> Melinda seems to be ok with this
- # [17:35] <fantasai> glazou: Open mailing list, or just publicly-viewable
- # [17:35] <fantasai> agreement on open
- # [17:35] <fantasai> public read-write
- # [17:36] * fantasai votes for www-svg-css-coord@ or something like that :)
- # [17:36] <fantasai> discussion of what David thinks
- # [17:36] <fantasai> Doug: For specifications like transforms and animations and things like that
- # [17:36] <fantasai> Doug: That might be the default mailing list for sending comments
- # [17:37] <fantasai> Doug: I can understand why csswg might not want that, but just a suggestion. SVG group is ok with that
- # [17:37] <fantasai> Melinda: I think if the CSSWG agrees to establish that new mailing list, I don't see why we wouldn't want to direct comments there
- # [17:37] <fantasai> Doug: We could have a wiki if we wanted, I dont' think it's necessary
- # [17:38] <fantasai> discussion of names for the list
- # [17:38] <sylvaing> svg-css-mafia
- # [17:38] <fantasai> www-svg-css-coord
- # [17:39] <fantasai> public-fx
- # [17:40] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Make a joint CSS SVG task force, Doug to set it up, specs of common interest to send comments there, will be *public read-write*
- # [17:42] * fantasai isn't minuting the chatter
- # [17:42] <Zakim> -Shepazu
- # [17:42] <fantasai> Topic: Publishing Template Layout module
- # [17:42] <fantasai> Bert: I think it's time for an update
- # [17:42] <fantasai> Bert: I think I sent also the changes
- # [17:43] * Joins: CesarAcebal (acebal@85.152.176.161)
- # [17:43] <fantasai> Bert: I removed the part about tabbed layout. interesting, but not so urgent... people aren't talking about it at least
- # [17:43] <fantasai> Bert: Also updated the title
- # [17:43] <fantasai> Bert: That's why I want to publish it
- # [17:44] <fantasai> fantasai: I thought it was called Template Layout MOdule?
- # [17:44] <fantasai> RESOLVED: publish updated WD of css3-layout
- # [17:44] <fantasai> Topic: Wording for Issue 24
- # [17:44] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-24
- # [17:45] * Joins: mollydotcom (molly@70.171.239.33)
- # [17:45] <fantasai> It was accepted to fix the problem, but not exactly what wording iirc
- # [17:47] <glazou> hi mollydotcom
- # [17:47] <mollydotcom> am I an hour off again?
- # [17:48] <fantasai> yeah
- # [17:48] <glazou> yes :)
- # [17:48] <fantasai> fantasai: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Dec/0091.html
- # [17:48] <fantasai> fantasai: There were two woriding proposals there
- # [17:48] <glazou> mollydotcom: leave the norwegian TZ :)
- # [17:48] <fantasai> fantasai: We discussed them and Bert wanted to write another one that was clearer on how the two interact
- # [17:49] <fantasai> glazou: deferred to next week
- # [17:49] <mollydotcom> it's the Arizona Time Zone
- # [17:49] <CesarAcebal> I'm afraid I have had the same error with the hour than Molly. In Spain we are not still in Summer Time until this weekend. Sorry!
- # [17:49] <glazou> np CesarAcebal
- # [17:50] <fantasai> fantasai: to answer Sylvain's question, we need to solve this issue before publishing CSS2.1 again, because we regressed the text with the last resolution
- # [17:50] <Zakim> +Cesar_Acebal
- # [17:50] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0212.html
- # [17:53] <fantasai> Bert summarizes his email
- # [17:54] * Quits: myakura (myakura@122.29.116.63) (Quit: Leaving...)
- # [17:54] <glazou> fantasai, I can't hear you
- # [17:54] * Bert : fantasai is fading...
- # [17:54] <fantasai> fantasai: It shouldn't be limited to selectors
- # [17:55] <fantasai> fantasai: We want all statements to fall under the matching brackets rule
- # [17:55] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@131.107.0.113) (Ping timeout)
- # [17:55] <fantasai> fantasai: including @statmeents
- # [17:55] <fantasai> fantasai: I don't think the reuqirement to "match" brackets and quotes is hard to understand, it's good enough for now I think
- # [17:55] <fantasai> fantasai: but it needs to apply to statements and to declarations
- # [17:56] <fantasai> ACTION: everyone come up with an opinion on Bert's email
- # [17:56] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
- # [17:56] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - everyone
- # [17:56] * RRSAgent records action 1
- # [17:56] <fantasai> Topic: Others
- # [17:56] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0207.html
- # [17:56] <fantasai> glazou, dbaron had good comments on those
- # [17:56] <fantasai> see above
- # [17:57] * fantasai pokes glazou
- # [17:57] <fantasai> linked above
- # [17:57] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0207.htmlhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0207.htmlhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0207.html
- # [17:57] <fantasai> er
- # [17:58] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0207.html
- # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, code ?
- # [17:58] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), glazou
- # [17:58] <glazou> mollydotcom: see above
- # [18:00] <ChrisL> it seems to be the usual way to remove things, set the attribute to ""
- # [18:00] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0256.html
- # [18:01] <fantasai> dbaron's comment: I think this could be tossed out as a "not all requirements are
- # [18:01] <fantasai> expressed in the formal grammar". It's a nice-to-have (and perhaps
- # [18:01] <fantasai> somewhat complicated to get right, so maybe not worth it), but I
- # [18:01] <fantasai> don't think it's a bug in the spec.
- # [18:01] <fantasai> glazou: another issue where the grammar is completed by the prose
- # [18:02] <fantasai> glazou: we will always have these sort of things
- # [18:02] <fantasai> glazou: not worth the time and complexity grammar to fix
- # [18:02] <fantasai> peter: why not fix in css3
- # [18:02] <fantasai> glazou: ok, we leave for css3.. but not 2.1
- # [18:02] <fantasai> bert: which are you talking about now?
- # [18:02] <fantasai> glazou: points bert at url
- # [18:04] <fantasai> Bert: So far I havent' seen anything that I would like to change in the grammar
- # [18:04] <fantasai> glazou: So Yves posted at least 2 issues here
- # [18:04] <fantasai> glazou: Specifically about 2.1, do we want to change something?
- # [18:05] <fantasai> RESOLVED: keep grammar and prose as is for 2.1, defer issue to css3
- # [18:05] <glazou> ==> tracker
- # [18:05] <ChrisL> adjourned
- # [18:05] <fantasai> Meeting closed.
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -Cesar_Acebal
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -Howcome
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -Melinda_Grant
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -ChrisL
- # [18:06] <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
- # [18:06] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been glazou, fantasai, +1.858.216.aaaa, plinss, Bert, sylvaing, alexmog, ChrisL, Melinda_Grant, arronei, +47.21.65.aabb, Howcome, Shepazu,
- # [18:06] <Zakim> ... Cesar_Acebal
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -plinss
- # [18:06] <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
- # [18:06] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, ChrisL
- # [18:06] <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
- # [18:06] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/25-css-minutes.html ChrisL
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:06] <fantasai> chrisl, could you also make sure last week's minutes made it to the mailing list?
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -Bert
- # [18:07] * ChrisL will look
- # [18:07] <fantasai> k, thanks :)
- # [18:07] <Zakim> -fantasai
- # [18:07] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [18:07] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, fantasai, +1.858.216.aaaa, plinss, Bert, sylvaing, alexmog, ChrisL, Melinda_Grant, arronei, +47.21.65.aabb, Howcome, Shepazu, Cesar_Acebal
- # [18:07] <plinss> ChrisL: +1.858 was me, don't know why Zakim listed me twice...
- # [18:07] <mollydotcom> Bert?
- # [18:07] <plinss> same for Howcome, he was +47.21
- # [18:07] <Bert> Hi Molly
- # [18:08] <mollydotcom> Hi! I just wanted to touch base with you regarding any web site needs
- # [18:08] <mollydotcom> I sent an email, but I know you're busy - but I'm available to help
- # [18:09] <Bert> Yes, I'm going to answer. I put something on line for you to look at.
- # [18:09] <mollydotcom> oh good, if you could just email me now at mollyh@opera.com for that, I'll be happy to take a look!
- # [18:09] <ChrisL> Meeting: CSS WG telcon
- # [18:10] <ChrisL> Chair: Daniel
- # [18:10] <mollydotcom> I'm trying to streamline all CSS WG related items into that address now
- # [18:10] <glazou> it should be møllyh@opera.com
- # [18:10] <mollydotcom> Hahaha
- # [18:10] <ChrisL> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0204.html
- # [18:11] <mollydotcom> I really wanted molly@opera.com but they couldn't do it
- # [18:11] <mollydotcom> my alternative was mholzschlag@opera.com
- # [18:11] <mollydotcom> so I figured mollyh was the best middle ground :)
- # [18:12] <ChrisL> Regrets: Steve Zilles, David Baron, Tona Henderson, Emily Walters, David Singer
- # [18:12] <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
- # [18:12] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/25-css-minutes.html ChrisL
- # [18:14] * glazou goes back to his slides for this week-end's conference
- # [18:14] <glazou> bye people
- # [18:15] <mollydotcom> also has to work on slides
- # [18:15] * Quits: glazou (glazou@80.118.184.70) (Quit: glazou)
- # [18:15] <mollydotcom> byeeee! I'll look for that email, Bert!
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- # Session Close: Thu Mar 26 00:00:00 2009
The end :)