/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2009-04-01 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Apr 01 00:00:00 2009
# Session Ident: #css
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# [17:58] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-css-irc
# [17:58] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
# [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
# [17:58] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
# [17:59] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
# [18:00] <Zakim> +??P7
# [18:00] <Zakim> +dsinger
# [18:00] <Zakim> +plinss
# [18:00] <fantasai> zakim, ??p7 is me
# [18:00] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
# [18:00] * Joins: dsinger (mobile@67.218.109.10)
# [18:01] <dsinger> Zakim, mute me
# [18:01] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
# [18:01] <Zakim> +glazou
# [18:02] <dsinger> Is this co-ed student services?
# [18:02] <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
# [18:03] <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fantasai (44%), glazou (16%)
# [18:03] <dsinger> Zakim, who is noisy?
# [18:03] <anne> Zakim, passcode?
# [18:03] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
# [18:03] <Zakim> dsinger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fantasai (9%), glazou (5%)
# [18:03] <glazou> fantasai, we have a lot of noise coming from your phone
# [18:03] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
# [18:03] <anne> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
# [18:03] <Zakim> +anne; got it
# [18:03] <Zakim> + +1.206.324.aaaa
# [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
# [18:04] <sylvaing> Zakim, 1.206.324 is sylvaing
# [18:04] <Zakim> sorry, sylvaing, I do not recognize a party named '1.206.324'
# [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
# [18:04] <arronei> zakim, microsoft is me
# [18:04] <fantasai> glazou, ok muted
# [18:04] <sylvaing> Zakim, +1.206.324.aaaa is sylvaing
# [18:04] <Zakim> On the phone I see fantasai, dsinger (muted), plinss, glazou, anne, +1.206.324.aaaa, [Microsoft]
# [18:04] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
# [18:04] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
# [18:04] <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger, Zakim, RRSAgent, arronei, sylvaing, CesarAcebal, glazou, myakura, MikeSmith, jdaggett, anne, plinss_, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, plinss, fantasai, Hixie, trackbot
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# [18:05] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
# [18:05] <dbaron> Zakim, [Mozilla] has David_Baron
# [18:05] <Zakim> +David_Baron; got it
# [18:06] * Joins: melinda (melinda.gr@67.47.246.6)
# [18:06] <Zakim> + +98567aabb
# [18:07] <CesarAcebal> Zakim, +98567aabb is CesarAcebal
# [18:07] <Zakim> +CesarAcebal; got it
# [18:08] <Zakim> +Howcome
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# [18:09] <glazou> ScribeNick glazou
# [18:09] <anne> scribe: glazou
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# [18:09] <glazou> plinss: additions to agenda ? howcome I got your note ?
# [18:10] <fantasai> http://www.bradclicks.com/cssplay/border-image/Thinking_Outside_The_Box.html
# [18:10] <glazou> fantasai: brad kemper's proposal for border-image
# [18:10] <dsinger> Steve z and i reached agreement
# [18:10] <dsinger> Later in call if time...
# [18:10] <glazou> agenda item 1 : test case selector issue
# [18:10] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2009Mar/0002.html
# [18:10] <dbaron> I haven't read Brad Kemper's proposal yet; it didn't work very well when catching up on my email on the airplane...
# [18:10] <glazou> plinss: had a chance to read the thread ?
# [18:11] <glazou> glazou: I did
# [18:11] <Zakim> +Melinda_Grant
# [18:11] <glazou> glazou: Bert summarized the issue, XML cannot make an attribute start with a digit
# [18:11] <glazou> anne: yes, impossible
# [18:11] <sylvaing> invalid, even
# [18:12] <glazou> anne: it's even invalid in html as well
# [18:12] <anne> (that was arron)
# [18:12] <glazou> s/anne/arron
# [18:12] <glazou> arron: I totally agree the case is an invalid case but we have a problem where we cannot test invalid scenarios
# [18:12] <glazou> arron: this has to be valid xhtml
# [18:13] <glazou> arronei: so how do you test invalid scenarios
# [18:13] <glazou> arronei: how do you test an attribute starting with hyphen, valid scenario ?
# [18:13] <glazou> anne: you can't
# [18:13] <glazou> arronei: the spec needs to change to remove this restrictions or ...
# [18:13] <glazou> dbaron: the rule is testable
# [18:13] <glazou> dbaron: you can test with another rule
# [18:14] <glazou> arronei: still, you can't test an attribute starting with an hyphen
# [18:14] <glazou> dbaron: find another language where it is allowed
# [18:14] <glazou> arronei: test suite is xhtml
# [18:14] <fantasai> dbaron: or don't worry about it
# [18:14] <glazou> dbaron: we're looking in interoperable implems in languages applying to css
# [18:14] <glazou> arronei: I understand but how do you test that hyphen scenario ? which language ?
# [18:15] <glazou> dbaron: we don't test it, untestable requirement
# [18:15] <glazou> dbaron: we can test that it's an accepted selector with another valid selector in same rule
# [18:15] <glazou> dbaron: just like p, :not(p)
# [18:15] <glazou> arronei: but we cannot prove which selector matched
# [18:15] <fantasai> dbaron: just like p:not(p), wher eyou can't prove that it doesn't match anything
# [18:15] <glazou> arronei: no way to prove that
# [18:15] <glazou> thx fantasai
# [18:16] <glazou> arronei: then you have an ambiguous testcase
# [18:16] <glazou> dbaron: in theory an implem could harcode the response and pass CSS test suite
# [18:16] <glazou> anne: 2 tests with one having two selectors ina rule and another with only one
# [18:16] <glazou> arronei: dependency issue
# [18:17] <glazou> arronei: we end up with a dependency chain
# [18:17] <fantasai> dbaron: but that implementation doesn't remotely implement CSS
# [18:17] <glazou> anne: not a problem
# [18:17] <glazou> anne: at least with html5 you can have attribute with a leading dash
# [18:17] <glazou> anne: I think digits too
# [18:17] <glazou> arronei: that would handle the valid case
# [18:18] <glazou> arronei: the invalid has probably no good way of testing
# [18:18] <glazou> sylvaing: you never really select because it's alrady dropped
# [18:18] <glazou> sylvaing: spec says there is syntax error
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# [18:18] <glazou> anne: you can match using an escape
# [18:19] <glazou> plinss: perfectly valid css if you escape
# [18:19] <glazou> plinss: should still not match siince the attr is not in the DOM
# [18:19] <glazou> arronei: we need a markup language allowing that attribute
# [18:19] * mollydotcom has delayed plane, in airport so can't phone in
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# [18:19] <glazou> anne: two pbs : syntax error and limitations of markup
# [18:19] <glazou> arronei: with html5 we should be able to test
# [18:20] * Quits: dsinger (mobile@67.218.109.10) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://rooms.derflash.de)
# [18:20] <glazou> anne: I was more objecting with the way it cannot start with a digit
# [18:20] <glazou> anne: section 5 says the selector is dropped
# [18:20] <glazou> dbaron: chapter 5 says it should not match
# [18:20] <glazou> dbaron: the syntactic requirement sentence ?
# [18:20] <glazou> dbaron: yes
# [18:21] <glazou> dbaron: not about matching
# [18:21] <glazou> arronei: the entire chapter is about that
# [18:21] <glazou> dbaron: and about the syntax of selectors
# [18:21] <glazou> arronei: syntax is in chapter 4
# [18:21] <glazou> dbaron: not entirely
# [18:21] <glazou> arronei: I see
# [18:21] <glazou> arronei: I'm ok with that
# [18:21] <glazou> arronei: the way I need to deal with this is with html5
# [18:21] <glazou> arronei: can we submit this as html5...
# [18:22] <glazou> anne: in this case it's a syntax-level requirement
# [18:22] <glazou> anne: not required on same page yet
# [18:22] <glazou> arronei: error handling is important
# [18:23] <glazou> dbaron: then there's already one test you failed so we catched the issue
# [18:23] <glazou> arronei: I was discorrelating the chapters
# [18:23] <glazou> arronei: if we fail that error case then according to ch5 you should not select either
# [18:23] <glazou> arronei: if you fail error case in ch4 then you have to create the case to see what failed ? because of P or attribute selector ?
# [18:24] <glazou> arronei: does it make sense to have in test suite ?
# [18:24] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52)
# [18:24] <glazou> fantasai: it's good to avoid dependencies on other chapters of the spec
# [18:24] <glazou> fantasai: here we are trying to capture a case related to another part of spec
# [18:24] <dbaron> fantasai: ... if it's easy to do without going out of your way
# [18:24] <Zakim> +[Apple]
# [18:24] <glazou> fantasai: why you failed is an implementor's job
# [18:24] <Zakim> -dsinger
# [18:24] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
# [18:24] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
# [18:24] <glazou> fantasai: I don' think we should really break things down
# [18:25] <glazou> fantasai: there's a limit to our efforts breaking things down
# [18:25] <glazou> fantasai: does not need to happen in the test suite
# [18:25] <glazou> arronei: I think for this case we're in agreement
# [18:25] <glazou> arronei: I was in disagreement before
# [18:26] <glazou> arronei: ok, I'll remove this test case
# [18:26] <glazou> arronei: I need to dig in we have other similar cases like that one
# [18:26] <glazou> arronei: I'll see if html5 works for cases
# [18:26] <glazou> fantasai: we don't need to test cases that are not going to happen in real markup docs
# [18:26] <dbaron> After "Attribute values must be identifiers or strings." we could add "(Otherwise, the selector is not valid CSS 2.1.)"
# [18:26] * Joins: howcome (howcome@80.203.30.11)
# [18:26] <glazou> arronei: I disagree with that
# [18:26] <glazou> glazou: I disagree too
# [18:27] <anne> Zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:27] <Zakim> On the phone I see fantasai, plinss, glazou, anne, sylvaing, arronei, [Mozilla], CesarAcebal, Howcome, Melinda_Grant, [Apple]
# [18:27] <Zakim> [Mozilla] has David_Baron
# [18:27] <Zakim> [Apple] has dsinger
# [18:27] <glazou> arronei: we need to test every single part of spec, period
# [18:28] <glazou> arronei: that needs to happen, otherwise we're not done
# [18:28] <glazou> arronei: we need to test everything in the spec or we miss coverage
# [18:28] <glazou> fantasai: in this case it'll be fine to note we were not able to test because of technology
# [18:28] <glazou> sylvaing: limit yourselved to *ml markup because UA use that
# [18:28] <sylvaing> that was anne
# [18:29] <glazou> arronei: there could be other UA
# [18:29] <glazou> s/sylvaing/anne
# [18:29] <glazou> fantasai: in that case the implem will need its own test suite
# [18:29] <glazou> arronei: it's trying to implement CSS with their own markup, they do not care
# [18:29] <glazou> fantasai: we don't need to worry about it, that's their problem, they can contribute their own format of the test suite
# [18:30] <glazou> arronei: but if we have a markup language that is compatible accross vendors, then I can test most of these scenarios
# [18:30] <glazou> arronei: if I can create tests in html5, is that a problem ?
# [18:30] <glazou> melinda, fantasai yes
# [18:31] <glazou> melinda: too early on
# [18:31] <glazou> anne: but the parsing rules are a decade old
# [18:31] <glazou> anne: older than css
# [18:31] <glazou> arronei: a limited number of cases: 6 or 7
# [18:31] <glazou> arronei: nothing in the 17,000 cases list
# [18:31] <glazou> melinda: I have a problem with that
# [18:32] <glazou> anne: most browsers do html5, not an issue
# [18:32] <glazou> fantasai: we can add them to the list of tests and see
# [18:32] <glazou> fantasai: might have to index by hand
# [18:32] * Zakim glazou, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
# [18:32] <glazou> Zakim: shhhhttttt
# [18:32] <glazou> fantasai: problem is automatic indexing
# [18:32] <glazou> fantasai: we can have a hand process for these ones
# [18:33] <anne> (there's only 10-20 tests or so that need special syntax)
# [18:33] <glazou> arronei: I think we have a solution here for the initial issue
# [18:33] <anne> (which HTML5 allows)
# [18:33] <sylvaing> naming convention for html5 testcases so the build scripts can handle them separately ?
# [18:33] <glazou> arronei: most issues related to chapters 4 and 5
# [18:33] <glazou> howcome: so what's the solution
# [18:33] <glazou> arronei: remove the case
# [18:33] <glazou> arronei: pursue the html5 possibility
# [18:33] <glazou> howcome: sounds good
# [18:33] <fantasai> I suggest a different file extension
# [18:34] <glazou> arronei: one other issue is a test suite issue
# [18:34] <fantasai> that way the build scripts will ignore them, and we can tell the makefile to just copy it
# [18:34] <sylvaing> if that's sufficient, that's great
# [18:34] <glazou> arronei: another invalid case with invalid markup because of invalid attr, the version attr on html
# [18:34] <glazou> arronei: seems like a dtd bug
# [18:34] <glazou> howcome: url ?
# [18:35] <glazou> arronei: the version attr is valid for transitional
# [18:35] <glazou> anne: some other attrs ?
# [18:35] <glazou> arronei: wrt the attr() notation
# [18:35] <glazou> arronei: the test fails
# [18:35] <glazou> arronei: I am testing all attrs in html4 spec
# [18:35] <glazou> arronei: because the dtd does not contain the version attr
# [18:35] <dbaron> There's a version attribute?
# [18:35] <glazou> ??:drop it
# [18:35] <anne> yeah
# [18:36] <anne> s/??/anne/
# [18:36] <glazou> melinda: html only case ?
# [18:36] <glazou> arronei: yes
# [18:36] <glazou> glazou: report to html WG
# [18:36] <arronei> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.3
# [18:36] <glazou> anne: they won't care
# [18:37] <glazou> arronei: not sure it's important
# [18:37] <glazou> anne: just drop the test
# [18:37] <sylvaing> DTD -> "Don't Test DOCTYPES"
# [18:37] <glazou> LOL
# [18:37] <glazou> arronei: ok with dropping it but it's such a great area
# [18:38] <glazou> anne: well ok
# [18:38] <glazou> arronei: only known attrs defined in html
# [18:38] <glazou> anne: there are a bunch of invalid attrs too
# [18:39] <glazou> melinda: worth lokking with html wg if it's intentional
# [18:39] <glazou> s/lokking/looking
# [18:39] <glazou> arronei: these tests are marked html only
# [18:39] <glazou> melinda: xhtml as well ?
# [18:39] <glazou> arronei: deprecated attrs are html only
# [18:39] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@71.202.66.40)
# [18:39] <glazou> arronei: odd case
# [18:39] <glazou> melinda: maybe not worth keeping it
# [18:40] <glazou> arronei: will ping html wg and we'll see
# [18:40] <glazou> arronei: the issue is external to us
# [18:40] <glazou> arronei: other issues with our tests ?
# [18:41] <glazou> anne: regarding the normalization thing, there is a problem too
# [18:41] <glazou> anne: not sure it has to be tested in the css test suite
# [18:41] <glazou> arronei: I'll take a look at that, you have a pointer ?
# [18:41] <glazou> melinda: I noticed the validator throws a warning for not having encoding
# [18:42] <glazou> melinda: do we want to accept that ?
# [18:42] <glazou> fantasai: we can add to build script and rely on http headers
# [18:42] <glazou> s/and/or
# [18:42] <anne> s/there is a problem too/there would be a DOM problem too most likely/
# [18:42] <glazou> melinda: the warning occurs even if the http header is here
# [18:42] <glazou> fantasai: ok, we can add to build script
# [18:43] <glazou> fantasai: I prefer keeping the template unchanged
# [18:43] <glazou> melinda: good answer
# [18:43] * glazou has tired fingers, you speak all fast :)
# [18:43] <fantasai> ACTION: fantasai add UTF-8 header to build scripts
# [18:43] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
# [18:43] * RRSAgent records action 1
# [18:43] <trackbot> Created ACTION-136 - Add UTF-8 header to build scripts [on Elika Etemad - due 2009-04-08].
# [18:43] * dsinger ow noise
# [18:43] <glazou> howcome: multicol issue ? I have to run
# [18:43] * fantasai is impressed at how well glazou has kept up
# [18:43] <Zakim> +SteveZ
# [18:43] * glazou fantasai :)
# [18:43] <glazou> plinss: yes
# [18:43] * sylvaing ...against all odds....
# [18:44] <glazou> plinss: new draft ?
# [18:44] <glazou> howcome: yes, what we decided at ftf to use page properties to force column breaks
# [18:44] <glazou> howcome: not elegant but will work w/o having to create new props
# [18:44] <glazou> howcome: also about margin collapsing but almost same spec
# [18:44] <glazou> howcome: draft since previous century
# [18:45] <glazou> howcome: we have 3 probably 4 implems so it's about time
# [18:45] <glazou> howcome: all comments have been resolved
# [18:45] <glazou> howcome: time to move to LC
# [18:45] <glazou> howcome: fantasai suggested long LC 8 weeks
# [18:45] <glazou> melinda: we don't have a way to contain content to a page, important concern to me
# [18:46] <glazou> howcome: uh ?
# [18:46] <glazou> melinda: page break avoid in column scenario, we don't have any control on that
# [18:46] <glazou> howcome: the spec does not say anything about that
# [18:46] <glazou> howcome: adds a new keyword on two new properties to force column break
# [18:46] <glazou> melinda: changes definitions of page-break-inside ?
# [18:46] <glazou> howcome: means both
# [18:46] <glazou> melinda: how ?
# [18:47] <glazou> howcome: this is an old change, a year ago
# [18:47] <glazou> howcome: not column break inside properties, reusing page break
# [18:47] <glazou> melinda: disagreed during last ftf
# [18:47] <glazou> fantasai: a column box cannot break across pages
# [18:47] <glazou> fantasai: a block that cannot rbeak across columns cannot break across pages
# [18:48] <glazou> howcome: you never really have control on that
# [18:48] <glazou> melinda: but I want that control
# [18:48] <glazou> howcome: somebody, alex?, could not see use cases for that
# [18:48] <glazou> melinda: I responsed to that statement
# [18:49] <glazou> fantasai: the way to solve this is to create a new keyword that avoids breaking across pages
# [18:49] <glazou> melinda: fine
# [18:49] <glazou> melinda: feeling not ok with long LC without that
# [18:49] <glazou> howcome: no we did not discuss that
# [18:49] <glazou> melinda: that's in the logs
# [18:49] <glazou> howcome: we did not touch the draft in that area
# [18:49] <glazou> melinda: let's look at current page-break-inside:avoid
# [18:50] <glazou> howcome: paged media draft
# [18:50] <glazou> fantasai: we discussed it
# [18:50] <glazou> fantasai: we chose to apply to both column and pages
# [18:50] <glazou> melinda: still disagreeing
# [18:51] <glazou> fantasai: I prefer authors think about it
# [18:51] <glazou> melinda: fine, but we don't have anecessary control here
# [18:51] <glazou> melinda: I understand but that's all we have
# [18:51] <glazou> howcome: you are right but we're not discussing the before after properties
# [18:51] <glazou> howcome: I was happy to put in column-break-inside as well
# [18:52] <glazou> howcome: that was the consensus ; happy to put it in again
# [18:52] <glazou> howcome: continue in LC period
# [18:52] <fantasai> I don't want a separate property here. If we need to add a keyword, we should add a keyword
# [18:52] <glazou> melinda: we need as a WG to make one more change
# [18:52] <glazou> melinda: are we expecting two LCs on this
# [18:52] <glazou> howcome: no one
# [18:52] * glazou laughs
# [18:52] <glazou> howcome: one new kwd to represent that case ?
# [18:52] <glazou> melinda: wonderful
# [18:53] <dbaron> page-break-inside: avoid-page ?
# [18:53] <glazou> melinda: I am saying there are multiple cases
# [18:53] <glazou> melinda: we need independant controls for the column and the page cases
# [18:53] <glazou> howcome: more comfortable well maybe not
# [18:53] <glazou> howcome: I'm ok with having avoid kwd apply to both
# [18:54] <glazou> melinda: as long as we have extra control, ok
# [18:54] <glazou> howcome: we can add two kwds
# [18:54] * glazou remembers the time howcome did not want extra kwds because of mobile phones' memory
# [18:54] <glazou> fantasai: no use case for avoid column
# [18:54] <sylvaing> if my recollection is right, alex was worried about possible contradictions in some scenarios i.e. column-break:avoid and page-break:auto
# [18:54] * anne has to go, bye!
# [18:54] <glazou> howcome: yes we do
# [18:54] <glazou> fantasai: no we don't
# [18:54] <Zakim> -anne
# [18:55] <glazou> szilles: avoid column would necessarily avoid break pages
# [18:55] <glazou> howcome: right
# [18:55] <glazou> melinda: fine
# [18:55] <glazou> fantasai: fine
# [18:55] <glazou> szilles: property name ?
# [18:55] <glazou> szilles: confusion with page-break-inside
# [18:55] <glazou> szilles: I would say avoid says just page
# [18:55] <glazou> szilles: and column says column and page
# [18:55] <glazou> fantasai: discussion already happened
# [18:55] <glazou> howcome: when ?
# [18:55] <glazou> fantasai: ftf
# [18:56] <glazou> howcome: I'm getting old, my memory is bad ;-)
# [18:56] <glazou> howcome: put it in ?
# [18:56] <glazou> melinda: wonderful
# [18:56] * sylvaing even sylvaing remembers that so it'd definitely true
# [18:56] <glazou> fantasai: ask molly if she has suggestion
# [18:57] <glazou> melinda: we can change name in LC period
# [18:57] <glazou> melinda: great to add functionailty
# [18:57] <glazou> plinss: mark at risk ?
# [18:57] <glazou> howcome: note we're not sure about the name of the kwd
# [18:57] <glazou> melinda: if we have also implems we can test both otherwise we'll have to remove the column breaking one
# [18:57] <glazou> szilles: another reason to use another name or the colimn breaking thing
# [18:57] <glazou> howcome: avoid-all ?
# [18:58] <glazou> melinda: it may or may not apply to table cells
# [18:58] <glazou> fantasai: avoid-page for now and call for suggestions
# [18:58] <glazou> howcome: another issue here
# [18:58] <glazou> howcome: things in addition to page
# [18:58] <glazou> plinss: we're running out of time
# [18:59] <glazou> plinss: we agreed to add functionnality back in
# [18:59] <glazou> plinss: agreement to move to LC ?
# [18:59] <glazou> szilles: if avoid does both column and page and column is at risk then avoid will disappear
# [18:59] <glazou> melinda: howcome and fantasai should come up with a proposal for next week
# [19:00] <Zakim> -Howcome
# [19:00] <glazou> ACTION howcome fantasai : come up with proposal for multicol
# [19:00] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
# [19:00] <trackbot> Created ACTION-137 - Fantasai : come up with proposal for multicol [on Håkon Wium Lie - due 2009-04-08].
# [19:00] <glazou> agenda item ARIA review
# [19:00] <plinss> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-20090224/
# [19:00] <fantasai> My proposal is page-break-inside: auto | avoid | avoid-page-break
# [19:00] <glazou> plinss: deadline is april 17th
# [19:01] <glazou> plinss: please everyone with interest in it review it, do we want to discuss it a s a group ?
# [19:01] <glazou> glazou: depends on the reviews themselves
# [19:01] <glazou> plinss: yes
# [19:01] <glazou> plinss: mailing list for comments
# [19:01] <plinss> send comments to: public-pfwg-comments@w3.org
# [19:02] <glazou> glazou: comments to css wg first or directly there ?
# [19:02] <glazou> plinss: no strong opinion
# [19:02] <glazou> fantasai: there cc wg
# [19:02] <glazou> plinss: fair enough
# [19:02] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
# [19:02] <glazou> plinss: I hope we don't enter controversy, please make sure you don't represent the WG
# [19:03] <glazou> agenda item TP
# [19:03] <glazou> plinss: we need to give an answer
# [19:03] <glazou> plinss: so ?
# [19:03] <dsinger> we surely should meet.
# [19:03] * Quits: howcome (howcome@80.203.30.11) (Ping timeout)
# [19:03] <glazou> szilles: we discussed it, meet with SVG when they meet
# [19:03] <glazou> dbaron: what other WG said or Chris ?
# [19:03] <glazou> glazou: headr nothing from them
# [19:04] <glazou> plinss: SVG was not going to be there, I think
# [19:04] <glazou> szilles: yes
# [19:04] <glazou> szilles: a month earlier
# [19:04] <glazou> fantasai: HTML and Webapps at TPAC
# [19:04] <dsinger> what does "tech plenary" mean when major techs like SVG, CSS, don't meet?
# [19:04] <glazou> szilles: nobody said that, I don't know
# [19:04] * glazou dsinger XHTML2 rulz !
# [19:05] <glazou> szilles: ping them ?
# [19:06] <glazou> glazou: said yes on TPAC questionnaire for thu/fri
# [19:06] <glazou> glazou: to leave us the door open
# [19:06] <glazou> plinss: ok
# [19:06] <glazou> plinss: if html and webapps we will attend
# [19:06] <glazou> szilles: yes
# [19:06] <glazou> szilles: and a separate meeting with SVG
# [19:07] <glazou> glazou: not both ?
# [19:07] <dsinger> we should encourage them to attend tpac in that case
# [19:07] <glazou> szilles: no
# [19:07] <glazou> szilles: the biggest bang for the buck
# [19:07] <Zakim> -SteveZ
# [19:07] <dsinger> We have a CSS f2f in Sophia Wed-Fri 24-26 June, right? I was starting on hotel and travel as that is peak season in the cote d'azur. I plan to arrive Wed. afternoon (from a 3G meeting in Sweden).
# [19:07] <glazou> 3-5
# [19:08] <Zakim> -sylvaing
# [19:08] <glazou> dsinger: sigh will probably not be able to do it
# [19:08] <Zakim> -Melinda_Grant
# [19:08] <Zakim> -[Apple]
# [19:08] <Zakim> -arronei
# [19:08] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
# [19:08] <Zakim> -CesarAcebal
# [19:08] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
# [19:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
# [19:08] <Zakim> -plinss
# [19:08] <fantasai> Bert?
# [19:08] <Zakim> -fantasai
# [19:09] <dbaron> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings#Upcoming_F2Fs doesn't have the SVG WG's plans
# [19:09] * Parts: CesarAcebal (acebal@85.152.176.161)
# [19:10] <glazou> fantasai: you have a script to turn the IRC minutes into something readable ?
# [19:10] <shepazu> dbaron, they aren't settled yet, but I will put up a page about SVG Open, and we could discuss it at tomorrow's SVG WG telcon if that would help
# [19:10] <glazou> hi shepazu
# [19:10] <Zakim> -glazou
# [19:11] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
# [19:11] <Zakim> Attendees were dsinger, plinss, fantasai, glazou, anne, arronei, sylvaing, David_Baron, CesarAcebal, Howcome, Melinda_Grant, SteveZ
# [19:11] <shepazu> hi, glazou
# [19:12] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52) (Quit: dsinger)
# [19:13] <glazou> rrsagent, draft minutes
# [19:13] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-css-minutes.html glazou
# [19:14] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
# [19:15] <shepazu> does anyone here have a good idea about how to make a mobile-friendly stylesheet for a site? I'm thinking that if I just drop my blog's sidebar down below the content area, that should suffice... but should I use media rules, or screen dimensions, or something else to switch on?
# [19:18] <glazou> shepazu: you want a rendering w/o horizontal scrollbar ?
# [19:18] * Quits: myakura (myakura@122.29.116.63) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [19:18] <shepazu> glazou: I guess something like that would suffice... it's a WordPress blog, pretty narrow
# [19:18] <glazou> looking for url
# [19:18] <shepazu> http://www.schepers.cc/
# [19:19] * Quits: mollydotcom (molly@66.210.6.25) (Quit: mollydotcom)
# [19:20] <glazou> shepazu: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/minimo/components/ssr/smallScreen.css
# [19:21] <glazou> that's my small screen rendering CSS sheet
# [19:21] <shepazu> thanks, glazou! I figured someone on the CSS WG might know how to do it :)
# [19:22] <glazou> yeah, when opera released SSR long ago, I did the same in ten minutes or so
# [19:22] <glazou> ok, they also have a bit of media queries in it but the basis is that sheet
# [19:23] <glazou> I need to run, bye doug
# [19:23] <shepazu> later, glazou
# [19:23] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
# [20:08] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
# [20:49] <fantasai> shepazu: I wrote an article on ALA about that awhile ago, btw
# [20:49] <fantasai> shepazu: it's probably one of the first hits for my name
# [20:53] <shepazu> fantasai: yes, I found that :) but I wondered if it was up to date
# [20:55] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
# [20:55] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
# [21:02] * Quits: sylvaing (sylvaing@98.247.143.102) (Ping timeout)
# [21:05] <fantasai> shepazu: on the specifics of triggering handheld rendering in Opera, probably not
# [21:05] <fantasai> shepazu: most of the rest is probably general enough not to be outdated
# [21:23] <shepazu> ok, thanks, fantasai
# [21:27] <fantasai> anyway, I'm offline til Friday
# [21:27] <fantasai> laters
# [21:28] * Quits: melinda (melinda.gr@67.47.246.6) (Quit: melinda)
# [21:34] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@71.202.66.40) (Ping timeout)
# [22:19] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
# [23:31] * RRSAgent excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
# [23:31] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
# Session Close: Thu Apr 02 00:00:00 2009

The end :)