/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2009-07-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 23 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:06] <hyatt> ok background-clip, background-origin in webkit now with prefixes dropped and final syntax
  4. # [00:06] <hyatt> woot
  5. # [00:06] <hyatt> fantasai: pedantic nitpick
  6. # [00:06] <hyatt> "The difference between ‘scroll’ and ‘local’ is only visible when the element has a scrolling mechanism: "
  7. # [00:07] <hyatt> technically you can set the scrollLeft/Top of overflow:hidden element
  8. # [00:07] <hyatt> s
  9. # [00:07] <hyatt> there is no visible scrolling mechanism necessarily in that case
  10. # [00:07] <hyatt> but probably not worth bothering with correcting i guess
  11. # [00:08] <hyatt> actually maybe it is worth correcting
  12. # [00:08] <hyatt> since basically overflow:hidden + background-attachment:local will need to clip to padding box
  13. # [00:09] <hyatt> it's kind of weird that if the contents of the element don't scroll that you might not clip
  14. # [00:09] <hyatt> but then if you suddenly do scroll that you'd suddenly start clipping
  15. # [00:10] <hyatt> i'm thinking of overflow:auto
  16. # [00:10] <hyatt> "The UA may, however, treat the ‘border-box’ value of ‘background-clip’ as ‘padding-box’ in cases where ‘background-attachment’ is ‘local’ and the contents of the element scroll."
  17. # [00:10] <hyatt> seems like even if the contents of the element don't scroll you may just want to always use padding-box
  18. # [00:10] <hyatt> since otherwise as scrollbars come and go your backgroudn would jump in and out of the border
  19. # [00:11] <fantasai> hmm, ok
  20. # [00:11] <fantasai> I have to go run some errands, I'll be back later. I'll read the scrollback, though, so you can keep leaving comments :)
  21. # [00:12] <hyatt> k
  22. # [00:12] <fantasai> thanks for the comments though!
  23. # [00:12] <hyatt> i think i'd just say if overflow != visible
  24. # [00:12] <hyatt> that border-box becomes padding-box
  25. # [00:12] <fantasai> k
  26. # [00:12] <hyatt> when background attachment is local
  27. # [00:12] * fantasai nods
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  29. # [00:22] <hyatt> box-shadow inset confuses me
  30. # [00:22] <hyatt> the examples in the draft show the shadow drawing over the background
  31. # [00:22] <hyatt> but how can that be
  32. # [00:22] <hyatt> shadows draw behind borders and backgrounds...
  33. # [00:23] <hyatt> is the stacking order flipped for inset shadows?
  34. # [00:23] <hyatt> if so, where does it say that
  35. # [00:23] <hyatt> ah nvm i see it
  36. # [00:23] <hyatt> "and the inner shadows of an element are drawn immediately above the background of that element (below the borders and border image, if any)."
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  43. # [03:39] <fantasai> /away out
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  73. # [19:38] <hyatt> fantasai: ping
  74. # [19:38] <hyatt> dbaron: box shadow question for you
  75. # [19:38] <hyatt> dbaron: and text shadow too i s uppose
  76. # [19:38] <dbaron> sure
  77. # [19:39] <hyatt> dbaron: in webkit we allow the color of a shadow to come first...
  78. # [19:39] <hyatt> dbaron: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-background/#the-box-shadow
  79. # [19:39] <hyatt> dbaron: the above spec implies that lengths have to come before the color
  80. # [19:39] <dbaron> hyatt, no
  81. # [19:39] <dbaron> hyatt, && is a new syntax fantasai invented
  82. # [19:40] <dbaron> hyatt, it means both sides are required, but in either order
  83. # [19:41] <hyatt> that's ...
  84. # [19:41] <hyatt> ... very confusing.
  85. # [19:41] <dbaron> yeah
  86. # [19:41] <dbaron> it does simplify the syntax of a whole bunch of things, though
  87. # [19:42] <dbaron> it's defined in http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/about.html#property-defs
  88. # [19:43] <dbaron> || was a CSS-ism anyway, I think
  89. # [19:43] <dbaron> (in syntax)
  90. # [19:55] <hyatt> thanks for the info
  91. # [19:55] <hyatt> i guess i kind of knew this intuitively
  92. # [19:55] <hyatt> but when someone filed a bug about it directly
  93. # [19:55] <hyatt> i got confused :)
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  97. # [21:14] <hyatt> background-attachment:local finished and landed
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  99. # [22:10] <hyatt> dbaron: have you guys implemented border-break or background-break yet
  100. # [22:11] <dbaron> hyatt, we've implemented background-break for ages as -moz-background-inline-policy, but for inlines only
  101. # [22:11] <hyatt> background-break seems problematic for columns broken across pages
  102. # [22:11] <dbaron> based on hixie's proposal for years ago
  103. # [22:11] <dbaron> from
  104. # [22:11] <hyatt> for multicols broken across pages you have two types of breaks
  105. # [22:11] <hyatt> and it seems like a valid use case to want to do e.g., each-box but on the pages
  106. # [22:11] <hyatt> and not on the cols
  107. # [22:12] <hyatt> or continuous but on the pages and not the cols
  108. # [22:13] <hyatt> what about border-break? implemented that?
  109. # [22:15] <hyatt> dbaron: i don't really understand how to implement border-break on inlines if it has to be included in the line breaking algorithm
  110. # [22:15] <hyatt> it gets completely insane
  111. # [22:15] <hyatt> like if the border that only appears if you break early is thicker than the real edge border
  112. # [22:15] <hyatt> you could end up thinking you don't fit in the middle, but do fit if you keep going to the end
  113. # [22:16] <dbaron> hyatt, is it worse than borders already are?
  114. # [22:16] <hyatt> yes
  115. # [22:16] <dbaron> because they're pretty bad even without border-break
  116. # [22:16] <hyatt> because there's now an unpredictable border
  117. # [22:16] <dbaron> can't you already have that problem with just border-right?
  118. # [22:17] <hyatt> with border-break:close yes
  119. # [22:17] <dbaron> plus with negative margin-right?
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  121. # [22:17] <dbaron> I think it's no worse than negative margins on inlines.
  122. # [22:17] <hyatt> you know wheret he borders occur
  123. # [22:17] <dbaron> yeah, but you always just have one width to stick at the end if you're done and one if there's more for the next line
  124. # [22:18] <dbaron> and with +/- margins they can have either relationship to each other already
  125. # [22:18] <hyatt> border-break can say that you have a 2000px border at the break
  126. # [22:18] <hyatt> when the box onyl has a 1px border normally
  127. # [22:18] <dbaron> I'm not saying that we handle those cases correctly right now.
  128. # [22:18] <dbaron> But I don't think border-break makes them any worse.
  129. # [22:18] <hyatt> so you get into this weird situation where breaking in the middle seems like it can't fit
  130. # [22:18] <hyatt> but if you kept going you'd be able to fit at the end
  131. # [22:18] <dbaron> we already have that situation with negative margins
  132. # [22:18] <hyatt> hmmm we don't
  133. # [22:18] <hyatt> maybe we have bugs
  134. # [22:18] <dbaron> we certainly have some bugs there
  135. # [22:19] <hyatt> i wish border/background-break could just be cut
  136. # [22:19] <dbaron> but I don't think it increases complexity of the algorithm more than trivially
  137. # [22:19] <dbaron> the only difference is that "extra width if there's more for the next line" can be nonzero
  138. # [22:19] <hyatt> i don't understand how background-clip works when border-break is close either
  139. # [22:20] <dbaron> hyatt, good question :-)
  140. # [22:20] <hyatt> i think what bugs me here
  141. # [22:20] <hyatt> is that border-break and background-break feel like they go together
  142. # [22:20] <hyatt> i am not sure why we have two properties
  143. # [22:21] <hyatt> if i want every box to close its border, it seems like i'd want every box to have its own background too
  144. # [22:21] <hyatt> i can't imagine wanting to close every border and then have a continuous background
  145. # [22:21] <hyatt> and closure feels like it needs to affect backgrounds
  146. # [22:21] <hyatt> e.g., background-clip
  147. # [22:21] <hyatt> and how it gets applied
  148. # [22:22] <hyatt> i think i want box-break
  149. # [22:22] <hyatt> box-break: continuous | each-box
  150. # [22:22] <hyatt> | bounding-box
  151. # [22:23] <hyatt> eh i'd probably even just cut bounding box
  152. # [22:23] <hyatt> i don't see a use case for bounding box at all
  153. # [22:24] <dbaron> I don't have strong feelings about the properties at all, really.
  154. # [22:24] <hyatt> let me write something up
  155. # Session Close: Fri Jul 24 00:00:00 2009

The end :)