/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2009-10-28 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Oct 28 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  37. # [15:55] <szilles> #cxo
  38. # [16:06] <TabAtkins> What's going on in #cxo, szilles?
  39. # [16:09] * szilles Tab, this is a confidential conversation on the W3C search for a new CEO; I should not have posted that on #css; it was an accident
  40. # [16:10] <TabAtkins> Ah. Probably not a good idea to have a confidential conversation in a public room.
  41. # [16:42] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@83.85.115.44)
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  44. # [16:49] * sylvaing must leave the building due to fire alert....may be late
  45. # [16:50] <TabAtkins> That's hawt.
  46. # [16:50] * Joins: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19)
  47. # [16:50] <glazou> hi there
  48. # [16:50] <smfr> hi glazou
  49. # [16:50] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  50. # [16:50] <smfr> i'm Simon Fraser for those who don't know
  51. # [16:50] <glazou> helllloooooo smfr:)
  52. # [16:50] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  53. # [16:50] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-CSS-irc
  54. # [16:51] <TabAtkins> Yo.
  55. # [16:51] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  56. # [16:51] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
  57. # [16:51] <glazou> rrsagent make logs public
  58. # [16:51] <glazou> hi Tab
  59. # [16:51] <glazou> I spent 1h30 in a major traffic jam caused by a deadly accident 600 meters before me...
  60. # [16:51] <glazou> was afraid to miss the call
  61. # [16:51] <TabAtkins> Getting ahead of myself, but I'd like to avoid scribing today, too. TPAC is so close, and I can probably avoid a *lot* of pain if I just wait until afterwards to scribe.
  62. # [16:51] <TabAtkins> Bleh.
  63. # [16:52] <glazou> TabAtkins: no problem, I just need another scribe :-) hey we have new members in the WG right ?
  64. # [16:52] <TabAtkins> Haha, yeah.
  65. # [16:53] * glazou needs a coffee - and a real one - before the call
  66. # [16:53] <glazou> brb
  67. # [16:54] <bradk> I am also hoping that TPAC will help me put names to voices and faces more reliably.
  68. # [16:55] * bradk not yet ready to scribe. Not even close.
  69. # [16:55] <smfr> ditto
  70. # [16:55] <glazou> took me a while before my first time too
  71. # [16:56] * glazou hopes his VoIP is going to work better than last week
  72. # [16:57] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  73. # [16:57] <Zakim> +glazou
  74. # [16:57] <Zakim> +bradk
  75. # [16:57] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.240)
  76. # [16:57] <Zakim> +plinss
  77. # [16:58] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  78. # [16:58] <dbaron> Zakim, [Mozilla] has David_Baron
  79. # [16:58] <Zakim> +David_Baron; got it
  80. # [16:58] <dbaron> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  81. # [16:58] <Zakim> On the phone I see bradk, glazou, plinss, [Mozilla]
  82. # [16:58] <Zakim> [Mozilla] has David_Baron
  83. # [16:59] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
  84. # [17:00] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aaaa
  85. # [17:00] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  86. # [17:00] <smfr> i just called in (Simon Fraser, Apple)
  87. # [17:00] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
  88. # [17:00] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
  89. # [17:00] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is smfr
  90. # [17:00] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  91. # [17:01] <Zakim> +??P12
  92. # [17:01] <dbaron> Zakim, ??P12 is jdaggett
  93. # [17:01] <Zakim> +jdaggett; got it
  94. # [17:01] * sylvaing yay John !
  95. # [17:02] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22)
  96. # [17:02] <Zakim> +Bert
  97. # [17:02] * sylvaing that's how they make margins collapse over there
  98. # [17:02] <Zakim> + +000aabb
  99. # [17:02] <dbaron> Zakim, aabb is fantasai
  100. # [17:02] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  101. # [17:03] <sylvaing> are we going to talk about our agenda for TPAC ?
  102. # [17:04] * sylvaing imagines a giant 2,000 person conference room with glazou in one corner and everyone else in the other
  103. # [17:05] <sylvaing> scribenick sylvaing
  104. # [17:05] <sylvaing> scribenick: sylvaing
  105. # [17:05] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0294.html
  106. # [17:05] <sylvaing> em, ex and font-size issue
  107. # [17:06] <Zakim> -plinss
  108. # [17:06] <sylvaing> dbaron: I think it's a spec bug we should fix since it results in a circular reference
  109. # [17:06] <sylvaing> dbaron: doing the same for ex as we do for em is the right thing to do as this is the implemented behavior
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  112. # [17:07] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  113. # [17:08] <sylvaing> RESOLVED: ex definition to be changed to use the parent's element font size of set on font-size
  114. # [17:08] <glazou> Webkit , FF, Microsoft alreayd implement that
  115. # [17:08] * TabAtkins It looks like IE does the same thing as everyone else.
  116. # [17:09] * TabAtkins For the ex issue.
  117. # [17:10] <sylvaing> ACTION hakon update CSS3 Values to fix ex definition
  118. # [17:10] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  119. # [17:10] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - hakon
  120. # [17:10] <Zakim> +plinss
  121. # [17:10] <sylvaing> ACTION howcome update CSS3 Values to fix ex definition
  122. # [17:10] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  123. # [17:10] <trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Update CSS3 Values to fix ex definition [on Håkon Wium Lie - due 2009-11-04].
  124. # [17:10] <bradk> "Should we say that ex is 0.5em if no better value exists?"
  125. # [17:11] <sylvaing> glazou: what does no better value mean ?
  126. # [17:11] <sylvaing> bradk: not sure, part of the issue as raised
  127. # [17:11] <sylvaing> Bert: this is part of a note in CSS3 Values
  128. # [17:11] <sylvaing> dbaron: the x-height is typically part of font metrics
  129. # [17:12] <sylvaing> Bert: 2.1 currently allows to use 1/2 em if there is no other way to define the x-height
  130. # [17:12] <oyvind> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#font-size-props says ex refers to parent, by the way, but the Values section in 2.1 doesn't
  131. # [17:12] <sylvaing> szilles: I thought this was discussed in the past and this was added as result to ensure fonts without x-height are supported e.g. CJK
  132. # [17:13] <sylvaing> RESOLVED: preserve CSS2.1 0.5em fallback in CSS3 Values
  133. # [17:14] <sylvaing> ACTION howcome preserve CSS2.1 0.5em fallback in CSS3 Values
  134. # [17:14] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  135. # [17:14] <trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Preserve CSS2.1 0.5em fallback in CSS3 Values [on Håkon Wium Lie - due 2009-11-04].
  136. # [17:14] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Sep/0251.html
  137. # [17:14] * Joins: plinss (plinss@76.93.139.22)
  138. # [17:14] <sylvaing> Scoped selectors in Selectors API 2
  139. # [17:15] <sylvaing> glazou: I'm extremely reluctant to add support for this feature
  140. # [17:16] <sylvaing> glazou: almost nobody uses :root; it could be used here to scope the query
  141. # [17:17] <sylvaing> fantasai: but a :root element cannot have a parent
  142. # [17:17] * TabAtkins Something like "div :scope p".
  143. # [17:17] <sylvaing> fantasai: I don't think creating a pseudo-class for this proposal is a bad idea
  144. # [17:17] <sylvaing> glazou: I'd prefer a new pseudo than the first example in the proposal
  145. # [17:18] <sylvaing> TabAtkins: authors are already comfortable with this pattern from jQuery, however
  146. # [17:18] * Bert thinks ':here' but really has no opinion.
  147. # [17:18] <sylvaing> glazou: new pseudo ?
  148. # [17:18] <sylvaing> TabAtkins: no objection to that
  149. # [17:18] <sylvaing> dbaron: new pseudo is ok
  150. # [17:19] <sylvaing> fantasai: I prefer :scope to :reference
  151. # [17:19] * Joins: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  152. # [17:19] <sylvaing> ACTION glazou Respond to Lachlan with WG new pseudo recommendation
  153. # [17:19] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  154. # [17:19] <trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Respond to Lachlan with WG new pseudo recommendation [on Daniel Glazman - due 2009-11-04].
  155. # [17:19] <annevk> Zakim, passcode?
  156. # [17:19] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), annevk
  157. # [17:19] <Zakim> +??P7
  158. # [17:19] <annevk> Zakim, ??P7 is me
  159. # [17:19] <Zakim> +annevk; got it
  160. # [17:20] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Sep/0126.html
  161. # [17:20] <sylvaing> display:run-in clarifications
  162. # [17:20] * fantasai wonders if we have any media queries issues for Anne
  163. # [17:20] * annevk didn't want to miss his last chance for a haircut before leaving for TPAC and all
  164. # [17:21] * annevk doesn't recall any open media query issues
  165. # [17:21] <sylvaing> Bert: the first issue is when can an element run in and become a block; my proposal was to accept proposal #1 in my summary
  166. # [17:21] * Quits: plinss__ (plinss@76.93.139.22) (Quit: plinss__)
  167. # [17:21] <sylvaing> fantasai: does it address fixed/absolute positioning ?
  168. # [17:22] <glazou> grrr call dropped let me rejoin
  169. # [17:22] <Zakim> -glazou
  170. # [17:23] <sylvaing> Bert: absolute positioning includes position:absolute and position:fixed so the definition covers both
  171. # [17:23] <Zakim> +glazou
  172. # [17:24] <sylvaing> szilles brings up an inline table case to run through Bert's definition
  173. # [17:25] <sylvaing> glazou: is this a list of issues we could discuss at TPAC
  174. # [17:25] <sylvaing> Tab: Yes
  175. # [17:25] <sylvaing> Many others nod
  176. # [17:26] <sylvaing> ACTION Bert add display:run-in discussion to TPAC wiki agenda
  177. # [17:26] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  178. # [17:26] <trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - Add display:run-in discussion to TPAC wiki agenda [on Bert Bos - due 2009-11-04].
  179. # [17:26] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Sep/0131.html
  180. # [17:27] <sylvaing> drop-shadow proposal
  181. # [17:28] <sylvaing> bradk: the general idea is to take children and their transparency into account when casting drop shadows
  182. # [17:28] <sylvaing> bradk: and also to define which layer cast shadows
  183. # [17:28] * fantasai thinks we should discuss at TPAC
  184. # [17:29] <sylvaing> TabAtkins: in general the idea of being able to apply these effects to specific parts of an element but would like to be able to use it more generally
  185. # [17:30] <sylvaing> TabAtkins: also, some aspects such as transparency and inset shadows are hard to understand
  186. # [17:30] <sylvaing> dbaron: I think this requires thinking wrt its interaction with ordering
  187. # [17:31] <sylvaing> dbaron: also if you have selectivity, you need to figure out whether you have one shadow, multiple shadows and what their z-order are
  188. # [17:31] <sylvaing> dbaron: also, whether/when the feature results in a stacking context
  189. # [17:32] <sylvaing> sylvaing: agrees with elika that this is TPAC material
  190. # [17:34] <Zakim> -bradk
  191. # [17:34] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0011.html
  192. # [17:34] <Zakim> +bradk
  193. # [17:35] <fantasai> sylvaing: Everyone implements these interfaces, but the CSSWG has said that they are obsolete
  194. # [17:36] <fantasai> sylvaing: The will be replaced in CSSOM, but that doesn't exist yet.
  195. # [17:36] <fantasai> sylvaing: What am I supposed to do?
  196. # [17:36] <fantasai> dbaron: I've considered removing our support for it
  197. # [17:36] <sylvaing> sylvaing: a number of specs (SVG, CSS3 2D Transforms) depend on DOM L2 Style interfaces such as CSSValue but the WG stated those to be obsolete years ago
  198. # [17:36] <fantasai> dbaron: but part of our chrome uses it
  199. # [17:36] <sylvaing> sylvaing: CSSOM is not ready/available to replace
  200. # [17:36] <fantasai> dbaron: I'd really like to remove our support for it
  201. # [17:37] <sylvaing> annevk: based on how disliked the interface is, it doesn't seem the right way forward
  202. # [17:38] <sylvaing> annevk: Opera did not implement parts of SVG that depend on these interfaces. will do the same for transforms
  203. # [17:38] <sylvaing> annevk: if it depends on CSSValue, we did not implement support for it
  204. # [17:38] <dbaron> We also didn't implement the part of transforms that depends on this
  205. # [17:39] <fantasai> sylvaing: My problem si that anyone who looks at the specs has no idea that there's an issue there
  206. # [17:39] <fantasai> sylvaing: you have to go back 6 years in the mailing list
  207. # [17:40] <fantasai> sylvaing: At least we should make it clear somewhere that this stuff is at risk or shouldn't be touched
  208. # [17:40] <fantasai> dbaron: we should mark it as an issue in those specs
  209. # [17:40] <fantasai> annevk: I think someone raised an issue against transforms. SVGWG is aware of the issue and plans to address it
  210. # [17:40] <fantasai> glazou: What can we do?
  211. # [17:41] <sylvaing> annevk: we could re-publish L2 Style
  212. # [17:41] <sylvaing> annevk: and mention whic parts are obsolete, referencing the email
  213. # [17:41] <dbaron> I think we should put a red "NOTE: ..." inside css3-2d-transforms, etc., where they use the stuff that's obsolete
  214. # [17:41] * bradk has to bow out now and go see his dentist. Bye.
  215. # [17:41] <glazou> bye bradk
  216. # [17:41] * sylvaing agrees with dbaron
  217. # [17:41] <Zakim> -bradk
  218. # [17:41] <sylvaing> fantasai: that sounds like a good solution to me. can we do it ?
  219. # [17:42] <sylvaing> glazou: if we consider this as an errata, could we republish fast ?
  220. # [17:42] <sylvaing> glazou: note that this is a REC
  221. # [17:42] <sylvaing> Bert: then it's not going to be a quick process
  222. # [17:42] <annevk> it is about: http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Style/
  223. # [17:43] <sylvaing> Bert: what we could do is publish a note or even a working draft. but changing a REC requires review
  224. # [17:43] <sylvaing> szilles: but then unless you see the note, you still don't know
  225. # [17:43] <annevk> I suppose we could publish http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom/
  226. # [17:44] <fantasai> sylvaing: It will take longer than a few days, but that's ok. I'd rather take longer and have it in the spec.
  227. # [17:44] <sylvaing> sylvaing: I'd rather see it in the spec, however long it takes, than in some place authors and implementers alike may miss
  228. # [17:44] <sylvaing> glazou: what about tests ?
  229. # [17:44] <sylvaing> szilles: it's already a REC
  230. # [17:44] <sylvaing> glazou shifts uncomfortably enough that everyone can hear it
  231. # [17:46] <sylvaing> ACTION glazou Gather all interfaces that need to be obsoleted in DOM L2 Style
  232. # [17:46] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  233. # [17:46] <trackbot> Created ACTION-188 - Gather all interfaces that need to be obsoleted in DOM L2 Style [on Daniel Glazman - due 2009-11-04].
  234. # [17:47] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has arronei
  235. # [17:47] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  236. # [17:48] <sylvaing> (REC update process discussion)
  237. # [17:48] <sylvaing> glazou: I'll email the hypertext coordination group
  238. # [17:48] <sylvaing> glazou: next item is TPAC
  239. # [17:48] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/tpac-2009?s[]=tpac
  240. # [17:49] * myakura sees no tests for DOM2 Style: http://www.w3.org/DOM/Test/
  241. # [17:49] <sylvaing> glazou: please add agenda items if you have any
  242. # [17:49] <szilles> The process for changes due to errata is described by
  243. # [17:49] <szilles> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/process.html#errata
  244. # [17:49] * annevk has to go; glad I could make it for the DOM Level 2 Style discussion
  245. # [17:49] * annevk see you guys Sunday most likely :)
  246. # [17:49] * sylvaing thanks Anne !
  247. # [17:50] <Zakim> -annevk
  248. # [17:51] <fantasai> tpac: steve will miss tuesday morning
  249. # [17:51] <fantasai> steve has no interest in selectors or dom discussions
  250. # [17:51] <sylvaing> I'd love to talk about transitions and 2d transforms issues brought up on the list but will we have Apple participation ?
  251. # [17:51] <dbaron> sylvaing, I'd be interested as well (not sure what the transforms issues are, though)
  252. # [17:52] <fantasai> steve: Not sure I have much to add to modularization and profiles, although I care about it
  253. # [17:53] <fantasai> glazou: Will people from Apple attend?
  254. # [17:53] <fantasai> sfraser: Yes. And we will be able to discuss transitions and transforms
  255. # [17:54] * sylvaing will not make the informal gathering; arriving at SJC at 7:12pm
  256. # [17:54] * sylvaing but will proceed to the bar nonetheless
  257. # [17:54] <fantasai> have someone text you the location :)
  258. # [17:54] * Quits: myakura (myakura@114.163.221.102) (Quit: Leaving...)
  259. # [17:54] <dbaron> Are people arriving prior to Sunday?
  260. # [17:54] <jdaggett_> i'm coming saturday
  261. # [17:55] <annevk> I'm going to hike in Yosemite Park with Lachy and Marcos
  262. # [17:55] <fantasai> glazou: please send a message to wg saying when you arrive and where you will stay
  263. # [17:56] <szilles> I am here already and will be commuting from home
  264. # [17:56] <Bert> (Some people's arrival/departure info is already on http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/2009/Santa-Clara.html )
  265. # [17:56] <smfr> fantasai: i could do a demo
  266. # [17:57] <dbaron> I'm happy to demo too :-)
  267. # [17:57] <glazou> sylvaing: don't be cynical woth IE :-)
  268. # [17:57] <glazou> with
  269. # [17:58] * fantasai didn't hear that at all
  270. # [17:58] * sylvaing suspects the accelerometer is important to glazou because of his mad Parisian driving ?
  271. # [17:59] <Zakim> -jdaggett
  272. # [17:59] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
  273. # [17:59] <Zakim> -smfr
  274. # [17:59] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  275. # [17:59] <Zakim> -fantasai
  276. # [17:59] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  277. # [17:59] <Zakim> -Bert
  278. # [17:59] <Zakim> -glazou
  279. # [17:59] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  280. # [17:59] <sylvaing> The End
  281. # [17:59] <Zakim> -plinss
  282. # [18:00] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  283. # [18:00] <fantasai> heh
  284. # [18:00] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, bradk, plinss, David_Baron, TabAtkins, +1.408.636.aaaa, sylvaing, smfr, jdaggett, Bert, +000aabb, fantasai, SteveZ, annevk, arronei
  285. # [18:00] <TabAtkins> arronei: Will you be at the hotel by Sunday afternoon?
  286. # [18:00] * fantasai yay for having co-presenters
  287. # [18:00] <sylvaing> not sure arron is online right now but yes i think he arrives mid-day
  288. # [18:00] <TabAtkins> K, cool. Anybody got contact info for him? If not I'll just email him.
  289. # [18:00] <smfr> fantasai: i didn't catch who the audience was for the demos
  290. # [18:00] * sylvaing interprets co-presenting as being present :)
  291. # [18:01] <fantasai> web developers
  292. # [18:01] <smfr> ok
  293. # [18:01] <smfr> so we'll coordinate next week, or will you send email
  294. # [18:01] <smfr> ?
  295. # [18:01] <fantasai> I'll send email, and we'll coordinate next week.
  296. # [18:01] <smfr> cool
  297. # [18:01] <fantasai> We should probably outline what we're going to do at one of the breaks in the CSSWG meeting
  298. # [18:02] <fantasai> sylvaing: works for me, as long as you're okay with answering questions too :)
  299. # [18:02] * Joins: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.119)
  300. # [18:02] <sylvaing> fantasai: sure. I think I'll drag of one arronei or alexmog along. or both.
  301. # [18:02] <fantasai> hehe
  302. # [18:02] <sylvaing> fantasai, and i'll take photos
  303. # [18:02] <fantasai> you would :P
  304. # [18:05] <TabAtkins> Bert: You still cool for cab-sharing?
  305. # [18:06] <Bert> Yes, but I got a message forwared that suggests the hotel has a free shuttle service.
  306. # [18:06] <Bert> I'm going to check that.
  307. # [18:07] <TabAtkins> Ooh, let me know how that turns out.
  308. # [18:07] <TabAtkins> I would appreciate not paying for a cab.
  309. # [18:07] <annevk> the conf hotel?
  310. # [18:07] <annevk> oh, actually, nm
  311. # [18:08] <annevk> I'll be coming in from somewhere in San Francisco so it hardly matters
  312. # [18:08] <smfr> i'm local, fwiw
  313. # [18:08] <fantasai> annevk: do you need a ride?
  314. # [18:09] * fantasai will be driving down probably around 4-5 o'clock
  315. # [18:11] <glazou> smfr: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/DevMeeting
  316. # [18:12] <smfr> glazou: right, i've seen taht
  317. # [18:12] <glazou> ok
  318. # [18:12] <Bert> http://www.marriott.com/hotels/maps/travel/sjcga-santa-clara-marriott/ says there is no shuttle service, so what the 0 USD bus serivce in the e-mail refers to I don't know.
  319. # [18:12] * Quits: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22) (Quit: oyvind)
  320. # [18:13] <glazou> LOL howcome missed the call because of europe's winter time...
  321. # [18:14] <Bert> It's around 17 USD for a taxi, it says. That's OK for me, especially if divided by two.
  322. # [18:17] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: daddy duty)
  323. # [18:19] <sylvaing> oh, howcome
  324. # [18:24] <fantasai> TabAtkins: You interested in presenting a 3-minute overview of gradients?
  325. # [18:26] * Quits: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44) (Quit: annevk)
  326. # [18:26] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@83.85.115.44) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  327. # [20:09] * Disconnected
  328. # [20:10] * Attempting to rejoin channel #css
  329. # [20:10] * Rejoined channel #css
  330. # [20:10] * Topic is 'CSS working group'
  331. # [20:10] * Set by dsinger on Wed Oct 21 17:05:33
  332. # [20:12] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  333. # [20:12] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  334. # [20:31] * Quits: Hixie (ianh@129.241.93.37) (Ping timeout)
  335. # [20:34] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Sure! Would we have a projector? If so, I've just set up a cool little test page to show off gradients (obviously you need the appropriate trybuild to view it).
  336. # [20:34] <TabAtkins> http://www.xanthir.com/etc/gradient.html
  337. # [20:34] * Joins: Hixie (ianh@129.241.93.37)
  338. # [20:47] <TabAtkins> I can assure you that it's pretty awesome over here, though.
  339. # [20:54] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I'm pretty sure we have a projector :)
  340. # [20:54] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I think what would be really interesting would be not to show off the gradients so much as the process of standardizing them
  341. # [20:55] <TabAtkins> Hmm, okay.
  342. # [20:55] <fantasai> TabAtkins: e.g. show some of WebKit's syntax and rendered examples, then what Mozilla did with it
  343. # [20:55] <TabAtkins> "Participate in the list for two years, then come up with a better idea and write something good."
  344. # [20:55] <fantasai> TabAtkins: and then show how you pulled it together with the mailing list input into something that's much more understandable and usable
  345. # [20:56] <fantasai> TabAtkins: and show some cool examples with that
  346. # [20:56] <fantasai> TabAtkins: show some of the super-simple things like just specifying an angle, and then maybe a complex example
  347. # [20:57] <TabAtkins> All right, sounds good.
  348. # [20:57] <TabAtkins> This for the thursday talk?
  349. # [20:58] <fantasai> TabAtkins: That way you combine demos of a shiny new feature with an almost hands-on example of what standardization means
  350. # [20:58] <fantasai> and how it owrks
  351. # [20:58] <fantasai> TabAtkins: yeah
  352. # [20:58] <fantasai> TabAtkins: it's going to be pretty short, though
  353. # [20:58] <TabAtkins> That sounds great, fantasai.
  354. # [20:58] <fantasai> 3-5 minutes :)
  355. # [20:58] <TabAtkins> Yeah, dun worry. I'm good at that.
  356. # [20:58] <fantasai> awesome
  357. # [20:58] <TabAtkins> I do public speaking well. ^_^
  358. # [20:58] <fantasai> :)
  359. # [20:58] * fantasai does public speaking hardly at all
  360. # [20:59] <fantasai> I think my plan is to step back, grease the wheels, and let you pros make it happen :P
  361. # [20:59] <TabAtkins> If I ever stop coding professionally I'll be a teacher, definitely.
  362. # [21:01] * fantasai likes teaching
  363. # [21:02] <fantasai> it's surprisingly work-intensive though, heh
  364. # [21:02] <fantasai> All right! I think we're going to have an awesome panel on Thursday
  365. # [21:02] * fantasai writes it up
  366. # [21:08] * Quits: bradk (bradk@67.188.133.45) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  367. # [21:23] * TabAtkins was interested in doing something with the panel when you mentioned it, but didn't think he had much to talk about.
  368. # [21:28] * fantasai is glad you're presenting
  369. # [21:30] <fantasai> People have seen gradients in action in various blog posts about webkit or Mozilla. They haven't really seen what's happening to it at W3C and how that's going to make it way more awesome :) imho ^-^
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The end :)