/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2010-02-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 24 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  26. # [12:09] <fantasai> jdaggett: pong
  27. # [12:10] * fantasai thinks it should be bedtime
  28. # [12:11] * fantasai will wait a 5 minutes, however, because by morning it will be bedtime for jdaggett
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  36. # [16:52] <dbaron> I might be a few minutes late to the telecon, although hopefully not... I need to stop by the post office on my way in, and it opens half an hour before the telecon starts.
  37. # [16:52] <dbaron> (There's sometimes a long line at the post office.)
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  46. # [17:44] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-CSS-irc
  47. # [17:44] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  48. # [17:44] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
  49. # [17:44] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  50. # [17:44] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  51. # [17:52] * Quits: myakura (myakura@123.224.228.213) (Quit: Leaving...)
  52. # [17:58] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  53. # [17:58] <Zakim> +glazou_sick
  54. # [17:58] <glazou> LOL
  55. # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, glazou_sick is me
  56. # [17:58] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  57. # [17:59] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22)
  58. # [18:01] <Zakim> +smfr
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  60. # [18:01] * dbaron RRSAgent, pointer?
  61. # [18:01] * RRSAgent See http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-CSS-irc#T16-59-44
  62. # [18:01] <Zakim> -glazou
  63. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  64. # [18:01] <Zakim> -smfr
  65. # [18:02] <smfr> stupid AT&T
  66. # [18:02] <Zakim> +smfr
  67. # [18:02] * dbaron Zakim, [Mozilla] has dbaron
  68. # [18:02] * Zakim +dbaron; got it
  69. # [18:02] <Zakim> +glazou
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  71. # [18:03] <Zakim> +dethbakin
  72. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  73. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Bert
  74. # [18:04] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.106)
  75. # [18:04] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  76. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +200000aaaa
  77. # [18:04] * dbaron Zakim, aaaa is fantasai
  78. # [18:04] * Zakim +fantasai; got it
  79. # [18:05] <Zakim> +plinss
  80. # [18:05] <glazou> we have regrets from dsinger, molly and bradk
  81. # [18:08] <szilles> Scribenick: szilles
  82. # [18:09] <szilles> DG: Light agenda, mostly from last week
  83. # [18:09] <szilles> DG: we should start a discussion of coming F2F, agenda items, schedules, attendance
  84. # [18:10] <szilles> Agenda: 1. Follow up on Image Position and Image Fit
  85. # [18:10] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jan/0476.html
  86. # [18:10] <szilles> BB: Last weeks discussion did not reach a conclusion on anything
  87. # [18:11] <szilles> BB: Elika proposes and I agree that the rule for "overflow" should be clip the overflowing parts
  88. # [18:12] <szilles> SMFR: I can see use cases for scrollbars or the above solution; We could go either way
  89. # [18:14] <szilles> EE: The author can put scroll bars on the replace element it self; e.g. a document inside an iframe. Thus there is no particular need for scroll bars on the box into which the replace element goes
  90. # [18:14] <szilles> SMFR: I agree with Elika's analysis; clipping makes most sense
  91. # [18:15] <szilles> DB: no opinion, still trying to understand it, but willing to live with the clipping proposal
  92. # [18:15] <szilles> Decision: Clipping is the behavior for overflow
  93. # [18:16] <szilles> 1a. Missing "none"
  94. # [18:17] <szilles> EE: the answer despends on what the model is for negotiation between the box and the replaced element. I suggested one in a reply
  95. # [18:18] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Feb/0164.html
  96. # [18:21] <szilles> EE: The "none' value is asserted as necessary for SVG. I am not sure that this is so.
  97. # [18:22] <szilles> EE: If CSS decides on the view box size and SVG decides how to fill it then there is no need for a 'none' value because SVG setting will be used anyway
  98. # [18:22] <szilles> ACTION (all) read Elika's answer above
  99. # [18:22] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  100. # [18:22] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (all)
  101. # [18:23] <szilles> 1c * Fit to content or padding box?
  102. # [18:23] <szilles> Decision: content box
  103. # [18:23] <szilles> 1d * Don't inherit
  104. # [18:24] <szilles> DG: It is suggested to not inherit image-postition and image-fit
  105. # [18:25] <szilles> EE: the use case for inheritance is "nested elements" but it seems to be more important to honor SVG's preserve aspect ratio
  106. # [18:25] <fantasai> yes
  107. # [18:26] <szilles> SMFR: I am fine with no inheritance
  108. # [18:26] <fantasai> s/nested/nested object/
  109. # [18:26] <szilles> BB: me too
  110. # [18:27] <szilles> Decision: Do what is best for SVG
  111. # [18:27] <szilles> ACTION (Elika): Find out what is best for SVG
  112. # [18:27] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  113. # [18:27] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (Elika)
  114. # [18:27] * Bert thinks it has to be w/o parentheses
  115. # [18:28] <szilles> N. B. if what is best for SVG involves no inheritance, then there will be no inheritance
  116. # [18:28] <szilles> 1d Which module does image-fit go into
  117. # [18:29] * glazou still coughs a lot, sorry for the noise
  118. # [18:29] <szilles> EE: could move this property out of the page module into the images module which is being actively edited
  119. # [18:30] <szilles> BB: Paged Media should be back into CR as soon as possible
  120. # [18:30] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
  121. # [18:30] <Zakim> On the phone I see [Mozilla], smfr, glazou, dethbakin, [Microsoft], Bert, SteveZ, fantasai, plinss
  122. # [18:30] <Zakim> [Mozilla] has dbaron
  123. # [18:30] <Zakim> On IRC I see sylvaing, dethbakin, dbaron, oyvind, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, smfr, szilles, Lachy, anne, jdaggett_afk, arronei, karl, krijnh, plinss_, plinss, Bert, Hixie, fantasai,
  124. # [18:30] <Zakim> ... trackbot
  125. # [18:30] <szilles> EE: The catch is that there are a bunch of open issues that will delay getting paged media done
  126. # [18:31] <szilles> PL: HP is implementing it now and will likely want to push this through, perhaps via me
  127. # [18:32] <szilles> SZ: Who will make the changes?
  128. # [18:33] <szilles> EE: The problem with making the changes in Paged Media, is that due to references to the CR version from other orgs we cannot move the draft back to WD
  129. # [18:34] <szilles> The result of this is that the "editor's draft" that is public cannot be reissued so there is a large discrepency between it and the CR draft.
  130. # [18:36] <szilles> SZ: it is disconcerting that someone is normatively referencing an out of date document whatever its status
  131. # [18:37] <szilles> EE: There was some print stuff going on at MIPC and some other org; HP could perhaps provide more detail
  132. # [18:37] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
  133. # [18:37] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
  134. # [18:38] <szilles> SZ: can we action HP to tell us what they think the constraints are on the paged media module
  135. # [18:38] <szilles> ACTION (PL): Get information from HP
  136. # [18:38] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  137. # [18:38] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (PL)
  138. # [18:38] <szilles> 1e A new 'auto' behavior
  139. # [18:39] <szilles> BB: I do not like it; I think we can do without it
  140. # [18:39] <szilles> PL: how do we get the default behaviors without it
  141. # [18:39] <szilles> EE: We can say that we assign the box and the content "filler" does what ever it thinks is right
  142. # [18:40] <szilles> EE: using the model above, the content filler is given the size of the area to fill and it makes the decision on how to fill it
  143. # [18:41] <szilles> SG: Would 'auto' be the default behavior then?
  144. # [18:41] <szilles> Answer: yes
  145. # [18:42] <szilles> DB: Because "object" is so hard to implement, perhpas we should not force that on every other kind of element
  146. # [18:43] <szilles> SG and DB: auto should not be the default just because it is good for "object"
  147. # [18:44] <szilles> DG: do you agree that a new "auto" value is needed?
  148. # [18:44] <dbaron> I think <object> behavior might be a bunch of quirks... and object isn't used very much for any of this.
  149. # [18:44] <dbaron> I think the right behavior for <object> might be to switch implementations to doing 'fill'.
  150. # [18:44] <szilles> SG and DB: no, we do not agree there is a need
  151. # [18:44] <szilles> Decision: the proposal for a new "auto" value is not accepted
  152. # [18:45] <szilles> 2. Applying transitions to properties like visibility
  153. # [18:45] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0328.html
  154. # [18:45] <szilles> DB: I think that this is more likely a F2F topic
  155. # [18:45] <szilles> agreed
  156. # [18:45] <szilles> 3. animation Fill Modes
  157. # [18:45] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jan/0443.html
  158. # [18:46] <Zakim> -fantasai
  159. # [18:46] * fantasai has to attend an i18n telecon
  160. # [18:46] <szilles> SMFR: this would be in addition to animation spec to add a property 'animation-fill-mode'
  161. # [18:47] <szilles> SMFR: property allows author to spec whether the effect of the animation extends from now to end of delay period and how it ends
  162. # [18:47] <szilles> DB: How does this interact with the animation-iteration-count?
  163. # [18:48] <szilles> SMFR: this would apply only after the last interation
  164. # [18:48] <szilles> DB: With and iteration count of 3 and a fill-mode of "both"
  165. # [18:49] <szilles> SMFR: With a count of 3 and goes forward-backward-forward it applies to the last frame, but if the count were 2 which frame does it apply to
  166. # [18:50] <szilles> DB: I like it provided that with even iteration counts are explained
  167. # [18:50] <dbaron> I think even iteration counts should probably mean that the from keyframe applies at both ends
  168. # [18:51] <dbaron> er, even iteration counts *and* direction:alternate
  169. # [18:51] <szilles> SMFR: should the animation spec say anythnig about rendering when the animation event fires?
  170. # [18:51] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jan/0445.html
  171. # [18:51] <szilles> ACTION (SMFR); Come back with a more detailed proposal
  172. # [18:51] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  173. # [18:51] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (SMFR);
  174. # [18:52] <szilles> 4. Animation Timing Function property
  175. # [18:52] <smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Feb/0212.html
  176. # [18:53] <smfr> ACTION (smfr); Write a more detailed proposal for animation-fill-mode
  177. # [18:53] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  178. # [18:53] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (smfr);
  179. # [18:53] <smfr> ACTION smfr; Write a more detailed proposal for animation-fill-mode
  180. # [18:53] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  181. # [18:53] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - smfr;
  182. # [18:53] <smfr> grr
  183. # [18:53] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.169)
  184. # [18:53] <szilles> SMFR: This overlaps with the 'visibility' discussion
  185. # [18:54] <szilles> Decision: this becomes a topic for the F2F meeting
  186. # [18:54] <glazou> Percentage heights
  187. # [18:54] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0286.html
  188. # [18:55] <smfr> glazou: you're breaking up
  189. # [18:55] <glazou> let me rejoin
  190. # [18:55] * sylvaing wishes his random ideas looked like David's
  191. # [18:55] <szilles> 5. Percentage height calculations
  192. # [18:55] <Zakim> -glazou
  193. # [18:55] <szilles> DB: I would need some time to recall this suggestion
  194. # [18:55] <glazou> sorry lost phone
  195. # [18:56] <Zakim> +glazou
  196. # [18:56] * sylvaing he's been caught by HADOPI
  197. # [18:57] * dbaron is attending
  198. # [18:57] * dbaron will also be arriving back in the bay area by plane the day before the meeting
  199. # [18:57] <szilles> DG: Please gather ideas for the F2F agenda
  200. # [18:57] * sylvaing hopes he can attend the Apple employee store
  201. # [18:57] <szilles> BB: Richard Ishida has volunteered to help edit the Ruby Module and we should invite him to explain what he is doing
  202. # [18:58] <szilles> DG: I will arrange an invitation
  203. # [18:58] <dbaron> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/BidiProposal
  204. # [18:59] <szilles> DB: There is a bidi proposal that the I18N WG will be discussing. This is aimed at HTML, but is likely to affect CSS as well
  205. # [18:59] <szilles> SZ: Should we ask Richard to update us on the bidi propoasl while at our meeting
  206. # [18:59] <szilles> DB: that would be good.
  207. # [18:59] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
  208. # [18:59] <Zakim> -smfr
  209. # [18:59] <Zakim> -Bert
  210. # [18:59] <Zakim> -dethbakin
  211. # [18:59] <Zakim> -glazou
  212. # [18:59] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  213. # [18:59] <Zakim> -plinss
  214. # [18:59] * Parts: smfr (smfr@68.183.233.11)
  215. # [18:59] <szilles> Adjuourn at 9:58 AM PST
  216. # [18:59] * Quits: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.106) (Quit: sylvaing)
  217. # [19:00] <szilles> Zakim, make minutes
  218. # [19:00] <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', szilles
  219. # [19:00] <glazou> Zakim, make minutes public
  220. # [19:00] <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes public', glazou
  221. # [19:00] <glazou> RRSAgent, make minutes
  222. # [19:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-CSS-minutes.html glazou
  223. # [19:00] * Bert thinks its rrsagent, not zakim
  224. # [19:00] <glazou> szilles: that's rrsagent
  225. # [19:00] <glazou> yep
  226. # [19:01] * glazou has to run
  227. # [19:01] <glazou> bye people
  228. # [19:01] <szilles> bye
  229. # [19:01] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  230. # [19:01] * Quits: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22) (Quit: oyvind)
  231. # [19:01] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@67.180.184.118) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558])
  232. # [19:03] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  233. # [19:03] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  234. # [19:03] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, smfr, dbaron, dethbakin, Bert, SteveZ, +200000aaaa, fantasai, plinss, sylvaing
  235. # [19:25] * Quits: dethbakin (dethbakin@98.234.211.150) (Quit: dethbakin)
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  238. # [19:52] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@88.131.66.80) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
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  244. # [21:07] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  245. # [21:07] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  246. # [21:08] <TabAtkins> Good meeting?
  247. # [21:08] <TabAtkins> Also: Happy late birthday, fantasai!
  248. # [22:54] <fantasai> Thanks Tab!
  249. # [22:54] <fantasai> oh, btw, in response to your comment about grammars for css3-images
  250. # [22:54] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Yes, you should provide a grammar
  251. # [22:55] <TabAtkins> Kk, will do.
  252. # [22:55] <fantasai> TabAtkins: a grammar will make sure that you didn't leave out any important details
  253. # [22:55] <fantasai> TabAtkins: we had this problem with Selectors
  254. # [22:55] <TabAtkins> Do we have a reference for how to define the grammar? It's just an ABNF, but I'd like to match our style conventions in laying it out.
  255. # [22:57] <TabAtkins> (On the topic of gradients, I'm replacing tons of images on my company's site as part of my cleanup before I leave, and I love them.)
  256. # [23:18] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I'd suggest matching http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/grammar.html
  257. # [23:19] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Bert might have some other pointers
  258. # [23:19] <TabAtkins> kk
  259. # [23:20] <TabAtkins> I'll have a proposed grammar on the list tomorrow.
  260. # [23:20] <TabAtkins> Or Friday, maybe.
  261. # [23:20] <fantasai> kk
  262. # [23:21] <fantasai> plinss: Any idea when you can help with the lxml installation on test.csswg.org?
  263. # [23:33] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@118.243.226.86) (Quit: jdaggett)
  264. # Session Close: Thu Feb 25 00:00:00 2010

The end :)