/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2010-03-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Mar 24 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  24. # [09:21] <fantasai> hmm, so much for going to sleep early
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  52. # [16:49] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/24-CSS-irc
  53. # [16:49] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  54. # [16:49] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
  55. # [16:49] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  56. # [16:49] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  57. # [16:52] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@76.104.131.10)
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  60. # [16:58] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  61. # [16:59] <Zakim> +plinss
  62. # [17:00] <glazou> phone problems again
  63. # [17:01] * Joins: dethbakin (dethbakin@67.180.129.108)
  64. # [17:01] * Joins: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.236)
  65. # [17:01] <Zakim> +sylvaing
  66. # [17:02] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aaaa
  67. # [17:02] <Zakim> +glazou
  68. # [17:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  69. # [17:02] <plinss> zakim, aaaa is howcome
  70. # [17:02] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
  71. # [17:02] <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aabb
  72. # [17:02] <TabAtkins> Zakim, aabb is me
  73. # [17:02] <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
  74. # [17:03] <arronei> zakim, Microsoft is me
  75. # [17:03] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  76. # [17:03] <Zakim> + +1.617.650.aacc
  77. # [17:03] <Zakim> +bradk
  78. # [17:03] * Joins: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169)
  79. # [17:03] <dethbakin> +1.617.650.aacc is me
  80. # [17:03] <glazou> Zakim, aacc is dethbakin
  81. # [17:03] <Zakim> +dethbakin; got it
  82. # [17:04] <dethbakin> thanks glazou :-)
  83. # [17:04] <glazou> np
  84. # [17:04] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
  85. # [17:04] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, sylvaing, howcome, glazou, arronei, TabAtkins, dethbakin, bradk
  86. # [17:04] <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, howcome, dethbakin, bradk, oyvind, sylvaing, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, TabAtkins, dydz, shepazu, szilles, jdaggett_zzz, Lachy, fantasai, anne, dbaron, arronei,
  87. # [17:04] <Zakim> ... krijnh, karl, jgraham, Hixie, jdaggett_away, Bert, plinss, trackbot
  88. # [17:05] <Zakim> +smfr
  89. # [17:05] * Joins: smfr (smfr@68.183.233.103)
  90. # [17:05] <ChrisL> zakim, code?
  91. # [17:05] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ChrisL
  92. # [17:06] * sylvaing so Tab is official Google now and thus can't be evil anymore
  93. # [17:06] <TabAtkins> Yus.
  94. # [17:06] <glazou> raises affiliation question...
  95. # [17:06] * TabAtkins is eating his google oatmeal and google fruit.
  96. # [17:06] <Zakim> -smfr
  97. # [17:07] * sylvaing is chewing on a baby
  98. # [17:07] <Zakim> +smfr
  99. # [17:07] * TabAtkins also needs to go talk to his AC.
  100. # [17:07] <bradk> Google dogfood?
  101. # [17:07] * ChrisL tries to get a borrowed phone to do tone dialing. "this passcode is not valid"
  102. # [17:07] * anne sylvaing, I thought that was for Adobe employees?
  103. # [17:07] <glazou> happens all the time
  104. # [17:08] <TabAtkins> Scribenick: TabAtkins
  105. # [17:09] <Zakim> +David_Baron
  106. # [17:09] * sylvaing anne, what we're not most evil anymore ? :(
  107. # [17:09] <TabAtkins> glazou: If you're attending the ftf and haven't notified anyone at apple, please do so.
  108. # [17:09] <TabAtkins> glazou: Bert is going to organize a social event on tuesday night, please rsvp
  109. # [17:09] * anne sylvaing, depends, Ogg? :p
  110. # [17:09] <TabAtkins> glazou: Most of us will be in town on Sunday, can we meet for dinner?
  111. # [17:10] <TabAtkins> glazou: Meet at Cupertino Inn at 7pm and find a place.
  112. # [17:10] * dbaron wonders how to rsvp for event on tuesday
  113. # [17:10] <smfr> dbaron: rsvp on the day should be fine
  114. # [17:10] <ChrisL> I land at 21:45 so thats too late for diner by the time I get from sfo to cupertino
  115. # [17:10] <TabAtkins> howcome: Any additional registration requirements beyond the attendance form?
  116. # [17:10] * anne was wondering the same as howcome
  117. # [17:10] <TabAtkins> glazou: No, if you said you would attend Tues night on the form, it's fine.
  118. # [17:11] <ChrisL> daniel, the phone I am using is not generating tone dials so i can't get zakim to recognise the conference code
  119. # [17:11] <dbaron> I'm also arriving in town too late to meet for dinner
  120. # [17:11] <TabAtkins> glazou: extra agenda items?
  121. # [17:11] <TabAtkins> glazou: Request from jdaggett to defer the font-size-adjust issue to the ftf.
  122. # [17:11] <TabAtkins> glazou: Elika, any problem?
  123. # [17:12] <TabAtkins> fantasai: It was dbaron's idea, actually.
  124. # [17:12] <TabAtkins> glazou: Test suite!
  125. # [17:12] <plinss> zakim, [microsoft] has fantasai
  126. # [17:12] <Zakim> sorry, plinss, I do not recognize a party named '[microsoft]'
  127. # [17:12] <TabAtkins> glazou: Peter and I have an update on the i18n tests from Ishida.
  128. # [17:13] <TabAtkins> glazou: He showed me evidence that he began proposing his tests a year ago, so we can acccept his tests.
  129. # [17:13] <TabAtkins> glazou: They were ready months ago; this wasn't someething that just popped up
  130. # [17:13] <TabAtkins> arronei: I looked over the tests. They need some small tweaks, but otherwise should be able to be put right in.
  131. # [17:13] <sylvaing> Registration form at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32061/css-wg-cupertino-2010/ includes tuesday social RSVP
  132. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> glazou: Anything else on the test suite?
  133. # [17:14] <Zakim> + +1.919.374.aadd
  134. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> arronei: Just need more people to review the suite.
  135. # [17:14] <ChrisL> zakim, aadd is me
  136. # [17:14] <Zakim> +ChrisL; got it
  137. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> fantasai: If you review and it's good, please let me know (obviously, tell us if it's bad).
  138. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Location of the test cases?
  139. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> fantasai: /Style/CSS/Test, you can get to it from there
  140. # [17:15] <TabAtkins> glazou: We have 2 relatively big items on the agenda, and several minor ones. Let's start with the minors and maybe leave majors for ftf.
  141. # [17:15] <TabAtkins> everyone: yes
  142. # [17:15] <TabAtkins> glazou: First is from sylvain, about escaping commas in unquoted urls.
  143. # [17:16] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Essentially, part of the prose appears to be out of sync with tokenization rules.
  144. # [17:16] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: In URIs you need to escape commas, but that's not true, such as with data: uris with a comma before the base64 bit.
  145. # [17:16] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: We ran into this when we tried to implement the mandatory escaping, so the prose is out of place.
  146. # [17:17] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: In a data URI, the comma is in a known position. You can parse it because you know exactly where that should be.
  147. # [17:17] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Does this appear in other uri schemes or just data?
  148. # [17:17] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Plenty of http uris with commas in the file names
  149. # [17:17] <TabAtkins> dbaron: CSS parsers uniformly accept them.
  150. # [17:17] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Don't know offhand of examples of using it in the CSS; I see it often in page urls.
  151. # [17:18] * Quits: dethbakin (dethbakin@67.180.129.108) (Quit: dethbakin)
  152. # [17:18] <dbaron> See e.g., the "United News and Deals" URLs on http://www.united.com/
  153. # [17:18] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: The CSS parser isn't tripping up on that, right? So the grammar/parser is fine, but the prose is wrong?
  154. # [17:18] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Yeah, we need to fix the prose.
  155. # [17:18] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: So what exactly needs to be removed?
  156. # [17:19] <TabAtkins> dbaron: The prose lists what needs to be escaped, we just need to remove the commas. Everything else the prose lists is fine.
  157. # [17:19] <TabAtkins> glazou: Objections?
  158. # [17:19] <TabAtkins> everyone: no.
  159. # [17:19] <ChrisL> just checking that the othetrs listed were all correct
  160. # [17:19] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Change prose of URI production to match the grammar, dropping the requirement to escape commas.
  161. # [17:19] <glazou> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-vm/vm-interfaces.src.html
  162. # [17:19] <TabAtkins> glazou: Request to review the View Modes spec.
  163. # [17:20] <TabAtkins> glazou: Saying we need an event-based part of the spec, not just basing it on media queries.
  164. # [17:20] <TabAtkins> glazou: So let's send comments in 2 weeks time.
  165. # [17:20] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Mar/0190.html
  166. # [17:20] <TabAtkins> glazou: Next is clarification. nth-child and comments inside the argument.
  167. # [17:20] <TabAtkins> glazou: We never thought originally of comments inside the argument.
  168. # [17:21] <TabAtkins> glazou: Tokenization rules allow comments everywhere.
  169. # [17:21] <TabAtkins> glazou: From a "respect to the spec", we should allow comments everywhere.
  170. # [17:21] <TabAtkins> glazou: But also the an+b parsing is already very complex, and I wonder if it is worthwhile to allow another level of complexity.
  171. # [17:21] <TabAtkins> glazou: I don't care either way.
  172. # [17:22] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: It currently says comments everywhere between tokens; I'd be unhappy if it said "most comments between most tokens".
  173. # [17:22] <Zakim> +Danny
  174. # [17:22] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: We'd have to make it a single atomic token, if we want to be consistent.
  175. # [17:22] <Bert> zakim, danny is me
  176. # [17:22] <Zakim> +Bert; got it
  177. # [17:22] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: And then we just have to detail the production of an+b in prose?
  178. # [17:22] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Sounds like it.
  179. # [17:23] <TabAtkins> howcome: Comment from an opera dev, he thinks the definition of the n term is wrong.
  180. # [17:23] <TabAtkins> howcome: He thinks that using the terms odd and even is mixing up the grammar and lexer spec.
  181. # [17:23] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Two grammers in Selectors, one is general grammar you plug into selectors. The second is a more specific grammar for the an+b notation.
  182. # [17:24] <TabAtkins> fantasai: That one is not there to be a grammar so much, that you would plug into your parser, but rather to make sure the syntax is unambiguous.
  183. # [17:24] <howcome> First of all, an integer followed by an {N} will be tokenized as a
  184. # [17:24] <howcome> DIMENSION. The grammar above will match: "2/*comment*/n" but not "2n".
  185. # [17:24] <TabAtkins> glazou: Mozilla doesn't implement this grammar, frex, it tokenizes normally according to CSS.
  186. # [17:25] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Question for us is, in terms of that grammar does the an part of an+b have to tokenize as DIMENSION, or can it tokenize as NUMBER plus IDENT.
  187. # [17:25] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think it should tokenize as dimension.
  188. # [17:25] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: What's the technical difference?
  189. # [17:26] <TabAtkins> glazou: In DIMENSION you can't have a comment, NUMBER plus IDENT does.
  190. # [17:26] <TabAtkins> fantasai: If you accept NUMBER plus IDENT you'd accept "2 n", which is wrong.
  191. # [17:27] <TabAtkins> dbaron: No, because we wouldn't look for whitespace.
  192. # [17:27] <TabAtkins> howcome: I just pasted in my developer's feedback; he says that the grammar will match 2/*comment*/n, but *not* 2n.
  193. # [17:27] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I think DIMENSION would be better, since if I put a comment in there, I expect whitespace to be there too.
  194. # [17:28] <TabAtkins> fantasai: He missed the DIMENSION token.
  195. # [17:28] <TabAtkins> glazou: He looked just at the special subgrammar, not as the normal CSS tokenization.
  196. # [17:28] * Quits: dydz (dydz@75.37.27.246) (Quit: dydz)
  197. # [17:29] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think we should clarify that it should parse as a dimension.
  198. # [17:29] <TabAtkins> fantasai: And we should clarify where comments are allowed.
  199. # [17:29] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So based on the real grammar, we should be allowing comments between n the sign, and between sign and b.
  200. # [17:29] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I think that's not really the way to fix it.
  201. # [17:30] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I don't think we want a grammar for an+b to describe where the comments can go.
  202. # [17:30] <TabAtkins> dbaron: We should describe that the an+b does *not* describe a grammar itself, that you should accept normal CSS tokens.
  203. # [17:30] <TabAtkins> dbaron: And that the an+b grammar is just a restriction.
  204. # [17:31] <TabAtkins> glazou: So we specify that the first token has to start with n or - or be a dimension.
  205. # [17:31] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: So comments are not allowed?
  206. # [17:32] <TabAtkins> glazou: Not between the a and the n.
  207. # [17:32] <TabAtkins> fantasai: comments wherever there is a space token allowed.
  208. # [17:32] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We can add a comment that we expect the an part to tokenize as a dimension or an identifier.
  209. # [17:32] <dbaron> Also, the whole thing can tokenize as a dimension/identifier, e.g., n-1 is an identifier and 2n-1 is a dimension.
  210. # [17:32] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Extra problem we ran into. We keep implementing something, and then someone says, "Oh, that's the wrong grammar!".
  211. # [17:33] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Too much arcane knowledge about which grammar overrides what. This is a problem.
  212. # [17:33] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Seems easy for implementors to get this wrong, for them to implement a subgrammar that should only be informative, etc.
  213. # [17:33] <TabAtkins> howcome: Agree that it should be clearly labled to supplement the prose.
  214. # [17:34] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Yeah, it's not a *huge* problem, but it happens regularly.
  215. # [17:34] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Now that we have modules, it's more broken apart, and we need to be more clear about it.
  216. # [17:34] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: That should be easily dealt with by putting in an informative sentence that says, "Aspects of this grammar are modified by the grammar/prose over at XXX."
  217. # [17:35] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: We should know all the grammar details while writing something.
  218. # [17:35] <TabAtkins> ACTION glazou: Revise prose in an+b section of nth-child to specify comments and productions.
  219. # [17:35] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  220. # [17:35] * RRSAgent records action 1
  221. # [17:35] <trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Revise prose in an+b section of nth-child to specify comments and productions. [on Daniel Glazman - due 2010-03-31].
  222. # [17:36] <TabAtkins> glazou: item 7 jdaggett asked to defer
  223. # [17:36] <TabAtkins> glazou: item 8 - someone again asking for comments with a //
  224. # [17:36] <TabAtkins> glazou: It's easier for authors and so on.
  225. # [17:37] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I used // comments a lot when I was first starting, and didn't notice errors since the invalid rule that it started got swallowed by } and such.
  226. # [17:37] <TabAtkins> glazou: Yeah, and it trips me up a lot when I switch between javascript and css
  227. # [17:38] <TabAtkins> howcome: This should have been there from the beginning, but don't have as much luxury to change it now.
  228. # [17:38] * oyvind wonders if that requires a change in the core syntax
  229. # [17:38] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: It already says comments are allowed anywhere, right? Could we just put this in?
  230. # [17:38] <TabAtkins> dbaron: It does break the forward-compatible grammar, in that old implementations will screw things up.
  231. # [17:39] <dbaron> ... if they see a //-commented-out {
  232. # [17:39] <TabAtkins> plinss: It comes up once a year, and we always say no.
  233. # [17:39] <TabAtkins> glazou: That's not very satisfying.
  234. # [17:39] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We have comments, just not in the particular syntax that people want. I agree with Peter that it's probably too late now.
  235. # [17:40] <TabAtkins> fantasai: At this point it would likely cause too many problems to add.
  236. # [17:40] <TabAtkins> glazou: Okay, issue closed.
  237. # [17:40] <TabAtkins> glazou: Two items left, % height calculations and float bidi issues.
  238. # [17:41] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0080.html
  239. # [17:41] <TabAtkins> dbaron: % height is helped by a whiteboard.
  240. # [17:41] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0088.html
  241. # [17:41] <TabAtkins> glazou: Defer to ftf, then.
  242. # [17:41] <TabAtkins> glazou: Float bidi issues, then.
  243. # [17:43] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: As far as I can tell, the first link is asking whether, when we float:start or end, the scrolling/overflow behavior of the containing box should change.
  244. # [17:44] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Frex, if you're in ltr and you ahve an auto left margin, it right-aligns the block if it's narrower than the container, but left-aligns if it's wider so you don't have content that's unscrollable.
  245. # [17:45] <dbaron> ... and the question, I think, is whether we want to do the same thing for floats.
  246. # [17:45] <TabAtkins> dbaron: So the question is if we want to do the same thing for floats.
  247. # [17:45] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Last time we tested, I think some impls did this.
  248. # [17:46] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think start and end should compute to a used value of left or right, and then should just act normally.
  249. # [17:46] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I agree. That means there's no issue?
  250. # [17:46] <TabAtkins> glazou: So, Elika, there's nothing to do?
  251. # [17:46] <TabAtkins> fantasai: dbaron's talking about a different issue, not actually related to start and end.
  252. # [17:47] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Yeah, the first email is indeed talking about something independent of float:start/end.
  253. # [17:47] <TabAtkins> glazou: Do we need to bring this up during ftf?
  254. # [17:48] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I think someone needs to write some tests and figure out what implementations do. I may have done it in the past.
  255. # [17:48] <TabAtkins> glazou: Let's defer this to a later time, then.
  256. # [17:49] <TabAtkins> glazou: Next email, we have left/right values for a lot of properties, but not start/end.
  257. # [17:49] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I think there's been discussion about padding/border before, and me and Elika separately did proposals for that.
  258. # [17:49] <TabAtkins> dbaron: outline isn't relevant, because we don't have outline:left/right.
  259. # [17:49] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We talked about background-position in a ftf.
  260. # [17:50] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We decided to deal with that at a higher level, because it may also touch on flipping the image and such.
  261. # [17:50] <dbaron> there was also a more recent thread on background-position
  262. # [17:51] <TabAtkins> glazou: David, how does mozilla implement margin/paddings in an rtl context?
  263. # [17:51] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0269.html
  264. # [17:51] <TabAtkins> dbaron: We implement -moz-margin-start, etc.
  265. # [17:52] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: [something about changing what left/right/top/bottom refers to when changing writing direction]
  266. # [17:53] <TabAtkins> glazou: When a web author has to reverse the content of a webpage for rtl, he has to tweak the stylesheet.
  267. # [17:53] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think that having margin-start, etc would be great.
  268. # [17:54] <TabAtkins> fantasai: There was was a proposal from Andrew to have :ltr and :rtl selectors that would select based on the direction information in the markup language (@dir in HTML).
  269. # [17:54] <TabAtkins> glazou: That's equivalent to writing two stylesheets, though.
  270. # [17:54] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think we've got two proposals for *-start, etc, so we should discuss those. There are complex cascading issues.
  271. # [17:55] <TabAtkins> howcome: It's a can of worms. We don't want to go there.
  272. # [17:55] <TabAtkins> glazou: It's because you're not writing webpages in Arabic.
  273. # [17:55] <TabAtkins> howcome: Left is left and right is right in lebanon.
  274. # [17:56] <TabAtkins> howcome: You can use, say, the lang selector today to style differently.
  275. # [17:56] * dbaron thinks there's a very appropriate chapter near the end of volume 1 of the Feynman lectures on physics about left and right
  276. # [17:56] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Not sufficient anyway. We have ltr languages, and then bidi languages, which are rtl some of the time and ltr others. You can't just reverse things unilaterally.
  277. # [17:56] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Mar/0279.html
  278. # [17:56] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: I'd like to bring up murakami-san's email.
  279. # [17:57] <ChrisL> others - meaning numerals, which are written ltr
  280. # [17:57] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Essentially, he noticed that some browsers like IE change top/bottom/left/right based on writing mode.
  281. # [17:57] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: So if you're in japanese and set padding-top, it pushes your content to the left.
  282. # [17:57] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: He proposed a way to detect this. It's hacky, but I understand what he's trying to solve.
  283. # [17:58] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: He brought up an important issue - ebooks and epub, which is xhtml and css2.
  284. # [17:58] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: People will address this themselves and come up with their own properties if we don't solve this ourselves.
  285. # [17:58] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think that's a great point. I think we should definitely address this.
  286. # [17:59] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think it was clear that the physical directions should be absolute - margin-top should always be the top margin.
  287. # [17:59] <TabAtkins> fantasai: If we need something to respond to the writing mode, it should be an appropriately-named property.
  288. # [17:59] <TabAtkins> everyone: yes
  289. # [18:00] <TabAtkins> glazou: All for today, have a safe trip, we'll meet at apple at 9am.
  290. # [18:00] <Zakim> -howcome
  291. # [18:00] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  292. # [18:00] <Zakim> -sylvaing
  293. # [18:00] <Zakim> -smfr
  294. # [18:00] <Zakim> -dethbakin
  295. # [18:00] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  296. # [18:01] <Zakim> -arronei
  297. # [18:01] <Zakim> -David_Baron
  298. # [18:01] <Zakim> -glazou
  299. # [18:01] <Zakim> -plinss
  300. # [18:01] <Zakim> -Bert
  301. # [18:01] <Zakim> -bradk
  302. # [18:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  303. # [18:01] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, sylvaing, +47.21.65.aaaa, glazou, howcome, +1.650.253.aabb, TabAtkins, arronei, +1.617.650.aacc, bradk, dethbakin, smfr, David_Baron, +1.919.374.aadd,
  304. # [18:01] <Zakim> ... ChrisL, Bert
  305. # [18:01] * Quits: bradk (bradk@67.188.133.45) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  306. # [18:01] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  307. # [18:01] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Quit: Carrier dropped, no sig$%^&&&*.....)
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  310. # [18:11] * Quits: TabAtkins (chatzilla@216.239.45.19) (Connection reset by peer)
  311. # [18:11] * TabAtkins_ is now known as TabAtkins
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  317. # [19:16] * Parts: r12a (ishida@mcclure.w3.org)
  318. # [19:52] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  319. # [19:52] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  320. # [20:24] * Parts: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.236)
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  323. # [21:20] <TabAtkins> I has a linux boxen with CVS installed. Reminder (or, preferably, pointer) on how to get into the CSS repo?
  324. # [21:21] <anne> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/
  325. # [21:22] <anne> no idea about the Member-only one by the way, but we should be moving away from that anyway
  326. # [21:22] <anne> well, I probably have some clue if I put in a bit of effort...
  327. # [21:23] <TabAtkins> Hmm, that's a readonly base, anne.
  328. # [21:23] <anne> oh, do you have .ssh set up?
  329. # [21:23] <TabAtkins> Yes.
  330. # [21:24] <anne> write, if you just use your username where it says anonymous it should work
  331. # [21:24] <anne> s/write/right/
  332. # [21:24] <anne> (what a typo...)
  333. # [21:24] <TabAtkins> Well, theoretically. I set it up in the past, on a different machine.
  334. # [21:24] <anne> if you copy the keys over to your home/username/.ssh/ folder it should be fine
  335. # [21:30] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@76.104.131.10)
  336. # [21:34] <Bert> Hi Tab, can I help?
  337. # [21:34] <TabAtkins> Sure, Bert. Got a linux box, CVS is installed, my ssh keys I exchanged with you a while back are now in ~/.ssh
  338. # [21:35] <TabAtkins> Now where do I actually point the command to get at the drafts?
  339. # [21:36] <Bert> You have a directory where you checked things out previously? Or not yet?
  340. # [21:36] <TabAtkins> Not yet.
  341. # [21:38] <Bert> You should first go to a place where you want the csswg directory to appear.
  342. # [21:38] <TabAtkins> Yah, got it.
  343. # [21:39] <Bert> Then "cvs -d tatkinsj@dev.w3.org:/sources/public get csswg/css3-color" should get you the Color draft (as an example)
  344. # [21:40] <Bert> The -d option should only be necessary the first time.
  345. # [21:40] <Bert> It will be stored inside a newly creatd csswg/CVS directory
  346. # [21:40] <TabAtkins> Do I need to set any variables to get it to recognize my key?
  347. # [21:41] <TabAtkins> (
  348. # [21:41] <TabAtkins> (Since that command died with a "Permission denied (public key)" error.)
  349. # [21:41] <Bert> You may need "export CVS_RSH=ssh" indeed.
  350. # [21:41] <Bert> And that should probably be put in your .bashrc or some such.
  351. # [21:42] <Bert> If that doesn't work, we should first check if SSH works without CVS...
  352. # [21:42] <Bert> The way to test is to do: ssh -v tatkinsj@dev.w3.org
  353. # [21:43] <Bert> and carefully look for any error messages in the (verbose) output.
  354. # [21:43] <TabAtkins> Nope, no good. Same failure message.
  355. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> Possibly I need to identify the file better? My private/public keys are called sshkey and sshkey.pub
  356. # [21:45] <Bert> They are normally called .ssh/id_dsa and .ssh/id_dsa.pub
  357. # [21:45] <Bert> (or rsa instead of dsa)
  358. # [21:46] <TabAtkins> Ah, that let ssh work.
  359. # [21:46] <TabAtkins> Cool, checkout succeeded.
  360. # [21:47] <TabAtkins> Finally, where's your src formatter again?
  361. # [21:47] <Bert> There are three variants: http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/css3-src/bin/postprocess
  362. # [21:48] <TabAtkins> danke, bert.
  363. # [21:48] <Bert> There should be some Makefiles in various directories under csswg with hints how to use that from the command line with curl, if you don't want to use a Web browser.
  364. # [21:50] <TabAtkins> Got it.
  365. # [21:50] <TabAtkins> This will work for now.
  366. # [21:51] <Bert> Great! Which module are you working on?
  367. # [21:51] <TabAtkins> images
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  379. # [23:28] <TabAtkins> Bert, fantasai: What's the best thing to do for background-repeat:extend? Pop it into Images?
  380. # [23:44] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.169) (Quit: shepazu)
  381. # Session Close: Thu Mar 25 00:00:00 2010

The end :)