/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2010-06-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 16 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:25] <fantasai> dbaron, is it ok if I take the bug number tests and move/rename them into named-category tests?
  4. # [00:25] <fantasai> dbaron, assuming I keep track of the bug number in the source code/
  5. # [00:26] <dbaron> fantasai, that's fine, but no need to modify the tests
  6. # [00:26] <dbaron> fantasai, if you do the renames as proper hg renames, it'll show up in the log
  7. # [00:26] <fantasai> dbaron, ok, but would you want a comment referencing the bug number in the source code?
  8. # [00:27] <dbaron> fantasai, no
  9. # [00:27] <fantasai> ok
  10. # [00:27] <dbaron> That's what |hg log| is for.
  11. # [00:27] <fantasai> right
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  35. # [17:45] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  36. # [17:45] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/16-CSS-irc
  37. # [17:45] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  38. # [17:45] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
  39. # [17:45] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  40. # [17:45] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  41. # [17:45] * glazou wonders if the european bridge now works
  42. # [17:49] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@183.77.242.62) (Quit: jdaggett)
  43. # [17:50] * ChrisL no, lots of problems 2 hours ago on webfonts wg call
  44. # [17:53] * Parts: anne (annevk@213.236.208.22)
  45. # [17:57] <glazou> sigh
  46. # [17:57] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  47. # [17:57] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), glazou
  48. # [17:59] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  49. # [17:59] <Zakim> +plinss
  50. # [17:59] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22)
  51. # [18:00] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  52. # [18:00] <glazou> ChrisL: yeah does not work at all
  53. # [18:01] <glazou> ChrisL: sam problem on US one now...
  54. # [18:01] <glazou> same
  55. # [18:01] <ChrisL> oh, joy
  56. # [18:02] <arronei> zakim, microsoft is arronei and fantasai
  57. # [18:02] <Zakim> I don't understand 'microsoft is arronei and fantasai', arronei
  58. # [18:02] <ChrisL> star zero for an operator
  59. # [18:02] <glazou> aaaah
  60. # [18:02] <Zakim> + +33.9.50.89.aaaa
  61. # [18:02] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is me
  62. # [18:02] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  63. # [18:02] <arronei> zakim, microsoft is me
  64. # [18:02] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  65. # [18:02] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  66. # [18:03] <ChrisL> works for me - filed as wontfix
  67. # [18:07] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aabb
  68. # [18:08] <plinss_> zakim, aabb is howcome
  69. # [18:08] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
  70. # [18:09] * Joins: dethbakin (dethbakin@17.246.17.214)
  71. # [18:09] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  72. # [18:09] <dethbakin> Zakim, Apple has dethbakin
  73. # [18:09] <Zakim> +dethbakin; got it
  74. # [18:11] <Zakim> +David_Baron
  75. # [18:11] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone ?
  76. # [18:11] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, arronei, glazou, ChrisL, howcome, [Apple], David_Baron
  77. # [18:11] <Zakim> [Apple] has dethbakin
  78. # [18:11] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190)
  79. # [18:11] * dbaron RRSAgent, pointer?
  80. # [18:11] * RRSAgent See http://www.w3.org/2010/06/16-CSS-irc#T16-09-13
  81. # [18:11] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@76.104.131.10)
  82. # [18:12] <Zakim> + +1.206.324.aacc
  83. # [18:12] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  84. # [18:12] <plinss_> zakim, aacc is sylvaing
  85. # [18:13] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
  86. # [18:13] <fantasai> Peter: Anything else for the agenda?
  87. # [18:14] <fantasai> Arron: Two new issues for CSS2.1
  88. # [18:14] <fantasai> Peter: Test suite status?
  89. # [18:14] <fantasai> fantasai: published Alpha 3
  90. # [18:15] <fantasai> fantasai: Have known issues with MS testcases -- arron is working on them
  91. # [18:15] <fantasai> fantasai: i18n tests have been added
  92. # [18:16] <fantasai> fantasai: Didn't add all of Mozilla's testcases -- didn't know the ones in incoming were to be added until last night, and it was too late to fix the remaining format problems
  93. # [18:16] <fantasai> fantasai: can't build tests with conflicting filenames or using support files not in support/
  94. # [18:17] <fantasai> Topic: CSS2.1
  95. # [18:17] <fantasai> dbaron: We shouldn't let open issues block CR/PR/REC
  96. # [18:17] <fantasai> chrisl: We need to publish REC at some point, and there are always open issues
  97. # [18:18] <fantasai> fantasai: I don't mind publishing a spec with issues about things being undefined, but I don't want to publish a spec where we know things are wrong
  98. # [18:18] <fantasai> fantasai: If we don't have time to make a definition, we should say it's undefined
  99. # [18:19] <fantasai> dbaron: We ship browsers with errors in them all the time
  100. # [18:20] <fantasai> peter: I don't think anyone objects to marking things undefined
  101. # [18:20] <fantasai> dbaron: I would prefer not to try to say things are undefined there
  102. # [18:20] <fantasai> peter: then we'll come back to this one (?) in the near future
  103. # [18:21] * Quits: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.85) (Ping timeout)
  104. # [18:21] <plinss_> s/(?)/(101)
  105. # [18:21] <fantasai> peter: issue 60?
  106. # [18:22] <fantasai> sylvain: Working on it this week. Planning to give Anton one last response. Unless he has a strong objection, that's what we'll take b/c this could go on forever. Should wrap up early next week.
  107. # [18:22] <fantasai> sylvain: I don't want to mess with that part of the spec too much, and we have 80% of what we want already
  108. # [18:22] <fantasai> Peter: Arron?
  109. # [18:23] <fantasai> Arron: Trying to commit a testcase right now, and that's my last one
  110. # [18:23] <fantasai> Arron: For the image, I need some help from jdaggett
  111. # [18:23] <fantasai> Arron: testcase is for issue 107
  112. # [18:24] <fantasai> Arron: image is for 154
  113. # [18:25] <fantasai> peter: kicking 165 back to WG?
  114. # [18:25] <fantasai> fantasai: I found a testcase in hixie's collection, so closed arron's action to write one
  115. # [18:25] <plinss_> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-71
  116. # [18:26] <fantasai> peter: remember discussing this f2f, don't remember if we got anywhere with it
  117. # [18:27] * Joins: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.73)
  118. # [18:28] <fantasai> peter: any opinions on Bert's proposal?
  119. # [18:28] <fantasai> fantasai: seems reasonable to me
  120. # [18:29] <fantasai> Peter: ... recall hearing ?? was too broad change, so I'm actually happy with this
  121. # [18:30] <fantasai> Sylvain: So 3 is the proposal, right?
  122. # [18:30] <fantasai> Peter: Yeah
  123. # [18:31] <fantasai> Peter: Am I hearing silence because people are reading and thinking, or dont' care?
  124. # [18:31] <fantasai> Chris: I don't have an opinion
  125. # [18:31] <arronei> I don't have any opinion on this either
  126. # [18:31] <fantasai> Peter: Not hearing any objections, so propose we adopt proposal
  127. # [18:31] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Bert's proposal accepted for CSS2.1 Issue 71
  128. # [18:31] * glazou notes that it's always the same in june : people are tired before the summer break
  129. # [18:32] <plinss_> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-119
  130. # [18:32] * dbaron what summer break?
  131. # [18:32] <fantasai> Chris: Proposal from Bert looks good to me
  132. # [18:33] * sylvaing glazou, only French people and high-schoolers have summer breaks :)
  133. # [18:33] <fantasai> arron: It actually makes more sense now
  134. # [18:33] <fantasai> fantasai: I like it too
  135. # [18:33] * glazou sylvaing: I did not say a 2 months summer break ; I said a break
  136. # [18:34] * glazou sylvaing and I even heard somewhere you'll be in southwest of france in july ;-)
  137. # [18:34] <fantasai> dbaron: ok
  138. # [18:34] * sylvaing glazou october but even then, not really a break
  139. # [18:34] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Bert's proposal accepted for CSS2.1 Issue 119
  140. # [18:34] <plinss_> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-134
  141. # [18:35] <oyvind> tc is 404
  142. # [18:35] <fantasai> http://test.csswg.org/source/contributors/microsoft/incoming/top-with-negative-top-001.xht
  143. # [18:36] * fantasai notes that the .htm versions are generated by a makefile, and sometimes it runs a clobber to rebuild everything from scratch
  144. # [18:36] <fantasai> dbaron: Looks like the top is vertically centered, not the whole thing exactly centered
  145. # [18:37] <fantasai> beth: In webkit it's way up at the top
  146. # [18:37] <fantasai> dbaron: This is a change we made a few years ago
  147. # [18:37] <dbaron> s/This is/I think this is/
  148. # [18:38] <dbaron> Yeah, CSS 2.0 said:
  149. # [18:38] <dbaron> For 'top' and 'bottom', if the height of the containing block is not specified explicitly (i.e., it depends on content height), the percentage value is interpreted like 'auto'.
  150. # [18:38] <fantasai> fantasai: We have two passes, let's close no change
  151. # [18:39] <fantasai> fantasai: or is it supposed to be exactly centered?
  152. # [18:40] <dbaron> see also http://www.w3.org/mid/4A2965C2.9080002@moonhenge.net
  153. # [18:41] <fantasai> fantasai: The testcase is wrong. The text in the middle of it should be exactly centered
  154. # [18:42] <fantasai> fantasai: I still think we should close this no change.
  155. # [18:42] <fantasai> fantasai: The spec makes sense, but implementations have a bug to fix
  156. # [18:43] <fantasai> Peter: So no change to spec, fix test?
  157. # [18:43] <fantasai> Arron: I'll fix the test
  158. # [18:43] <fantasai> dbaron: Trying to figure out if it's certain that there aren't cyclic dependencies
  159. # [18:43] <fantasai> dbaron: Haven't convinced myself yet because of scrollbars
  160. # [18:44] <fantasai> dbaron: But that should be a separate issue if there are
  161. # [18:44] <fantasai> peter: something for errata
  162. # [18:44] <fantasai> RESOLVED: No change to spec for issue 134, implementations and test suite need updates
  163. # [18:44] <plinss_> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-165
  164. # [18:46] <fantasai> dbaron: So the emails from last time suggested it needed testcases and now there's a testcase url there
  165. # [18:46] <fantasai> Arron: Looks like we all do the same thing
  166. # [18:46] <fantasai> Arron: So at least we have consistency
  167. # [18:47] <fantasai> dbaron: So for everyone floats stick out of the left edge of the containing block?
  168. # [18:47] <fantasai> Arron: Right
  169. # [18:47] <fantasai> dbaron: Then I guess we resolve no change
  170. # [18:47] <fantasai> peter: Is that because we have interop or because it's the behavior we want?
  171. # [18:47] <fantasai> dbaron: I think it's not the best behavior, but also not worth changing
  172. # [18:48] <fantasai> Peter: The email from Gresley says Opera/Safari/IE7 not complying with spec
  173. # [18:49] <fantasai> Arron: IE7 is the only one that's inconsistent
  174. # [18:49] <fantasai> Arron: IE7 overflows to the right for the LTR case
  175. # [18:50] * fantasai defers to dbaron :P
  176. # [18:51] <fantasai> peter: any opinions?
  177. # [18:51] * glazou urgh my phone's battery is dying, may cut call
  178. # [18:51] <fantasai> dbaron: I think given that it's interoperable we should leave it
  179. # [18:51] <oyvind> as for Opera, it seems to have been a bug fixed about a major version ago
  180. # [18:52] <sylvaing> agrees with dbaron, arronei
  181. # [18:52] <fantasai> RESOLVED: No change for CSS2.1 issue 165
  182. # [18:53] <plinss_> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-167
  183. # [18:53] <fantasai> this resolution sponsored by hixie
  184. # [18:53] <fantasai> ;)
  185. # [18:53] <Zakim> -glazou
  186. # [18:53] * glazou sorry phone battery dead
  187. # [18:54] * fantasai is happy with any proposal to 167 that satisfies both Bert and dbaron
  188. # [18:54] <fantasai> dbaron: I don't think I have time to understand the proposal in the remaining time in the telecon
  189. # [18:54] <fantasai> Peter: Let's defer this til next week
  190. # [18:55] <fantasai> Chrisl: Overall it looks good, but I agree it is a fairly complicated proposal
  191. # [18:55] <fantasai> Sylvain: Seems to be about two issues
  192. # [18:55] <fantasai> Sylvain: Are they really both the same issue
  193. # [18:55] <fantasai> ?
  194. # [18:55] <fantasai> dbaron: I think it's two issues with one proposal to address both
  195. # [18:56] <fantasai> Peter: One's about backslashes outside a string, another about backslashes inside a string. Don't see the first one being addressed
  196. # [18:56] <fantasai> fantasai: So defer to next week? If we have issues for Zack, we can ask him to clarify
  197. # [18:57] <fantasai> Peter: deferred to next week
  198. # [18:58] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-171
  199. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai: I think if we want a proposal here, we need a clue of what the proposal should be
  200. # [18:59] <fantasai> fantasai: There's some text in css3-lists that say ::marker should appear immediately before ::before
  201. # [19:00] <fantasai> fantasai: Which would mean Opera and Safari have to change
  202. # [19:00] <fantasai> fantasai: I think their behavior would look weird if the nested lists had more than one item
  203. # [19:00] <dbaron> I think 170 needs some discussion too... I think there are at least three obvious possibilities.
  204. # [19:01] <fantasai> plus undefined?
  205. # [19:01] <fantasai> :_)
  206. # [19:01] <fantasai> dbaron: I think there's 3 possibilities for min/max height on tables adn rows
  207. # [19:02] <fantasai> dbaron: I'm not sure which Gecko implements.. I think it implements possibility 2 for min/mad width
  208. # [19:02] <fantasai> dbaron: But not sure for height
  209. # [19:02] <fantasai> dbaron: possibility 1 is to just ignore them
  210. # [19:02] <fantasai> dbaron: Possibility 2 is to treat them as limits when computing preferred widths
  211. # [19:02] <fantasai> dbaron: possibility 3 is to apply them to the row as a whole
  212. # [19:02] * fantasai prefers 2, but is not sure
  213. # [19:03] <dbaron> s/computing preferred widths/computing a computed width for each cell/
  214. # [19:03] <fantasai> Peter: we're out of time
  215. # [19:03] <fantasai> Peter: David, can you send an email?
  216. # [19:03] <fantasai> dbaron: ok
  217. # [19:03] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Quit: Fire on main board error, client combusted)
  218. # [19:03] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  219. # [19:03] <Zakim> -David_Baron
  220. # [19:03] <Zakim> -howcome
  221. # [19:03] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  222. # [19:03] <Zakim> -sylvaing
  223. # [19:03] <fantasai> Peter: That's it for this week. Thanks everyone
  224. # [19:03] <Zakim> -arronei
  225. # [19:04] <Zakim> -plinss
  226. # [19:04] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  227. # [19:04] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, +33.9.50.89.aaaa, glazou, arronei, ChrisL, +47.21.65.aabb, howcome, dethbakin, David_Baron, +1.206.324.aacc, sylvaing
  228. # [19:04] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  229. # [19:07] * Quits: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22) (Quit: oyvind)
  230. # [19:20] <dbaron> I thought of a fourth possibility too, and posted to www-style
  231. # [19:26] <dbaron> oops, now I have a fifth
  232. # [20:13] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
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  236. # [20:36] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  237. # [20:36] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  238. # [20:38] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.240)
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  240. # [23:03] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@38.117.156.163) (Client exited)
  241. # Session Close: Thu Jun 17 00:00:00 2010

The end :)