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- # Session Start: Fri Aug 06 00:00:00 2010
- # Session Ident: #css
- # [00:18] <tabatkins> fantasai: Yeah.
- # [00:19] <tabatkins> k, sent. I'll link it into the thread when it shows up in the archives.
- # [00:19] <fantasai> thanks :)
- # [00:20] <tabatkins> btw, can you double-check that I'm right wrt auto positioning of abspos being explicitly left up to the browser?
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- # [00:27] <fantasai> tabatkins: "But rather than actually calculating the dimensions of that hypothetical box, user agents are free to make a guess at its probable position. " ?
- # [00:27] <fantasai> tabatkins: That leaves a lot open.
- # [00:27] <fantasai> tabatkins: I don't think that means we should make no tests
- # [00:28] <fantasai> tabatkins: we should make tests, but they will be optional for conformance
- # [00:28] <fantasai> tabatkins: more passes would mean you have better guessing algorithms :)
- # [00:32] <tabatkins> Okay, sounds good.
- # [03:06] <tabatkins> dbaron: Yo, got a testcase of margin-collapsing differing between IE/Webkit and Firefox/Opera, and I believe I've traced the difference to the exact place where my email from today suggests a minor normative change.
- # [03:06] <tabatkins> Namely, in 9.5.2, "This position is determined after the top margin of the element has been collapsed with previous adjacent margins (including the top margin of the parent block)."
- # [03:07] <tabatkins> I'm suggesting to change "previous adjacent margins" to "adjoining margins". That changes the behavior of the following test-case:
- # [03:07] <tabatkins> <div style="float: left; width: 100px; height: 100px; background-color: green"></div>
- # [03:07] <tabatkins> <div style="clear: left; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 40px; outline: 2px solid orange;"></div>
- # [03:07] <tabatkins> <div style="background-color: blue;">I'm a helper element.</div>
- # [03:08] <tabatkins> If you use "previous adjacent margins", you calculate clearance using only the 10px top margin, which is what FF and Opera do, producing a 30px gap between the clearing element and the blue div.
- # [03:08] <tabatkins> If you use "adjoining margins", you calculate clearance using the 40px collapsed margin, which is what IE and Webkit do, from what I can tell.
- # [03:09] <tabatkins> So... opinion on the value of the change?
- # [03:56] <dbaron> well, it makes incremental layout harder
- # [03:57] <dbaron> (in theory anyway, not sure whether it does in practice)
- # [03:58] <dbaron> another issue with that is that it's not clear what happens if there are two elements with 'clear' within the same margin collapse
- # [03:59] <dbaron> at the very least you'd have to say "presuming that no later elements or descendants of the element have clearance"
- # [04:00] <dbaron> but that, in itself, seems a little odd
- # [04:03] <dbaron> and could lead to the clearance not, in fact, causing the element to clear the floats
- # [04:04] <dbaron> er, maybe not
- # [04:08] <dbaron> actually, I think it could cause a clear not to clear the floats
- # [04:08] <dbaron> though I'd need to work it out
- # [04:09] <dbaron> the testcase would involve both 'clear: left' and 'clear: right' on different elements with, with both introducing clearance, but without the margins such that margins would collapse through everything. I think in such a case it may be possible to make the first clear not clear the floats with that rule change.
- # [04:25] <dbaron> I probably need to think about it more. But my current inclination is that I prefer the current spec's way since it's easier to reason about.
- # [04:25] <dbaron> tabatkins, ^
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- # [12:44] * Topic is 'CSS Working Group discussion'
- # [12:44] * Set by fantasai on Mon Aug 02 00:49:50
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The end :)