/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2010-10-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Oct 13 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  25. # [13:01] * Attempting to rejoin channel #css
  26. # [13:01] * Rejoined channel #css
  27. # [13:01] * Topic is 'CSS Working Group discussion'
  28. # [13:01] * Set by fantasai on Mon Aug 02 00:49:50
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  38. # [17:40] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/13-CSS-irc
  39. # [17:40] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
  40. # [17:40] <Zakim> ok, plinss; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
  41. # [17:41] <plinss> rrsagent, make logs public
  42. # [17:41] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, plinss
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  47. # [18:00] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  48. # [18:00] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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  51. # [18:02] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  52. # [18:02] * Zakim sees on the phone: [Microsoft]
  53. # [18:02] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  54. # [18:03] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft is JohnJansen
  55. # [18:03] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
  56. # [18:03] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@216.239.45.19)
  57. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  58. # [18:04] <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
  59. # [18:04] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  60. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.617.650.aaaa
  61. # [18:04] <kojiishi> Zakim, [IPcaller] is kojiishi
  62. # [18:04] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  63. # [18:04] <dethbakin> Zakim, aaaa is me
  64. # [18:04] <Zakim> +dethbakin; got it
  65. # [18:04] <Zakim> +plinss
  66. # [18:04] <Zakim> +David_Baron
  67. # [18:05] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  68. # [18:05] * Zakim sees on the phone: JohnJansen, kojiishi, [Microsoft], dethbakin, plinss, David_Baron
  69. # [18:05] * Zakim [Microsoft] has arronei
  70. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aabb
  71. # [18:05] <TabAtkins_> zakim, aabb is me
  72. # [18:05] <Zakim> +TabAtkins_; got it
  73. # [18:06] * Joins: smfr (smfr@17.203.14.12)
  74. # [18:07] <Zakim> +smfr
  75. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Bert
  76. # [18:09] * Joins: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169)
  77. # [18:10] <TabAtkins_> ScribeNick: TabAtkins_
  78. # [18:11] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: Anything else on the agenda?
  79. # [18:11] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: 2.1 Testsuite.
  80. # [18:11] <TabAtkins_> arronei: We published RC2, there's been some feedback.
  81. # [18:11] <TabAtkins_> arronei: Some progress on the updates. Elika was planning to publish another update at the end of this week, I think.
  82. # [18:12] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  83. # [18:12] <TabAtkins_> smfr: I'm ready to submit an impl report for Safari based on the Oct1 version. Should I wait, or go ahead and submit?
  84. # [18:12] <TabAtkins_> arronei: Go ahead and submit. We'll send out a list of just the updates.
  85. # [18:12] <TabAtkins_> arronei: There's maybe 20 updates so far.
  86. # [18:13] <TabAtkins_> smfr: There's a lot of feedback on the list about tests which have problems. Who's repsonsibility is that to roll up that feedback?
  87. # [18:13] <TabAtkins_> arronei: Elika does that.
  88. # [18:13] <TabAtkins_> arronei: I've been trying to update the MS tests as they get reported with problems.
  89. # [18:13] <TabAtkins_> arronei: The next publish should have all the feedback done up to that point.
  90. # [18:13] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@131.107.0.72)
  91. # [18:14] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: The harness on the website didn't get updated to RC2, I suppose.
  92. # [18:14] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: We'll wait for the next update to do that.
  93. # [18:15] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: So, Implementation Reports.
  94. # [18:15] <TabAtkins_> smfr: Is the right thing to send it to the private or public list?
  95. # [18:15] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: Whatever you're comfortable with.
  96. # [18:16] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: While there are some tests that need to be done in HTML or XHTML, does it really make sense to do that entire testsuite twice?
  97. # [18:16] <TabAtkins_> arronei: I have seen very few differences; maybe 2 or 3.
  98. # [18:17] <TabAtkins_> arronei: So there is negligible benefit for the vendor, but for reports it probably doesn't matter for those handful of cases.
  99. # [18:17] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: For our exit criteria, all I really care about is that it passes in HTML *or* XHTML.
  100. # [18:17] <TabAtkins_> arronei: That's probably fine from a pure spec perspective, because passing in one proves that the spec can be implemented.
  101. # [18:18] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  102. # [18:18] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.80)
  103. # [18:19] * sylvaing is late. again. sigh.
  104. # [18:19] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: So that's Google and Apple. What about MS, Moz, Opera?
  105. # [18:19] <TabAtkins_> arronei: MS already submitted and posted it.
  106. # [18:19] <smfr> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/10/08/css-2-1-implementation-reports.aspx
  107. # [18:19] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: I sent a status update last week.
  108. # [18:19] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2010Oct/0051.html
  109. # [18:20] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: I think I'm down to 500 images left to check. Then I'll be down to manual tests, which I'll probably just do in HTML.
  110. # [18:22] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: I think the big suite of background combinations could probably be done by just querying the OM.
  111. # [18:22] <TabAtkins_> arronei: Yeah, potentially.
  112. # [18:22] <dbaron> ... and test the interactive behavior without combinatorics.
  113. # [18:22] <arronei> MS implementaion report: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS2.1/20101001/reports/
  114. # [18:23] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: Do we believe that KHTML and Webkit are different enough to count as different?
  115. # [18:23] <TabAtkins_> arronei: I see a lot of differences.
  116. # [18:24] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: I think that Chrome and Safari are sufficiently close that they can't count as our two passing impls, but if Webkit and KHTML both pass, can it count?
  117. # [18:24] <TabAtkins_> smfr: I don't think so - if they both pass, there's a good chance it's in shared code.
  118. # [18:25] <TabAtkins_> arronei: But if Webkit passes and KHTML fails, that still counts as a pass, right?
  119. # [18:25] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: Yeah, either one can pass and it's okay. It's just when they agree that we'd count them as one.
  120. # [18:25] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: And the results page on the web harness is starting to show something like what we need for the exit criteria.
  121. # [18:25] <TabAtkins_> smfr: Link to the results page?
  122. # [18:26] <plinss> http://test.csswg.org/harness/
  123. # [18:26] <plinss> http://test.csswg.org/harness/results?s=CSS21_HTML&o=0
  124. # [18:26] <plinss> http://test.csswg.org/harness/results?s=CSS21_XHTML&o=0
  125. # [18:26] <TabAtkins_> smfr: How are you dealing with the different versions of Webkit, etc.?
  126. # [18:27] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: Right now, if I get a pass in any version of Webkit, Moz, etc. I count it as a pass.
  127. # [18:27] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: Later I'll mark them some as flaky if there are mixed passes and fails, for manual verification.
  128. # [18:28] <TabAtkins_> ChrisL: How generic is that? It would be useful for other CSS3 modules.
  129. # [18:28] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: completely generic; it can be used for any thing.
  130. # [18:28] <smfr> i hope the user-agent parsing is good :)
  131. # [18:28] * TabAtkins_ smfr, if it's not the base UA string is still stored too, so we can reparse.
  132. # [18:29] <ChrisL> cool so we can use this for modules later
  133. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> TabAtkins_: For Issue 101, the mailing list activity just died down yesterday, so I'll synthesize all of that soon.
  134. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: TPAC, we don't have a lot on the agenda yet.
  135. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> TabAtkins_: I'll have several drafts I want to talk about by then.
  136. # [18:30] <ChrisL> request for an FX taskforce joint meeting
  137. # [18:30] <plinss> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/tpac-2010
  138. # [18:31] <TabAtkins_> ChrisL: W3C staff is starting to count up people and plan accordingly, so anyone who's coming needs to register now.
  139. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I've been trying to find people involved in IPDF who could come. Haven't found anyone yet, but I'm still trying.
  140. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I guess most important is the Writing Mode, which is alreayd on the agenda, but they're also interested in the text module.
  141. # [18:33] * ChrisL ha the first test that i try out has two 404s for the references
  142. # [18:33] * ChrisL http://test.csswg.org/harness/testcase?s=CSS21_XHTML&u=139&o=1
  143. # [18:33] <ChrisL> topic: css3 color
  144. # [18:33] <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-color/issues-lc-2008.html
  145. # [18:34] <TabAtkins_> ChrisL: I updated the Disposition of Comments just before the call.
  146. # [18:34] <TabAtkins_> ChrisL: We're in better shape. Several rejects turned to accept, and a few new comments we've gottne accepted. I think it's in good shape, and we can justify our remaining rejects.
  147. # [18:35] <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Color/20081014/reports/CR-ImpReport.html
  148. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> For 6, I think we can justify the reject, because we have no impls.
  149. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> ChrisL: I'd like to put in a new report for Opera, because of changed results.
  150. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> ChrisL: We could go with what we have, but I think it's fairly easy to update our results.
  151. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> ChrisL: We have two passes for each test, which is the important thing.
  152. # [18:37] <TabAtkins_> RESOLVED: Request PR for Color level 3.
  153. # [18:37] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: Back to 2.1 issues.
  154. # [18:39] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: For 154, I didn't see an email to respond to those issues about. I think there are a bunch of things I don't like about both of them.
  155. # [18:39] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: In the first one, the pointer to the line box, because that's not defined by a single element.
  156. # [18:39] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: For the second, it seems unusual for "em-boxes" to represent a box with width as well; you usually only care about the height.
  157. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I think we explicitly said we wouldn't define the "content area" - it's a suggestion to take the em height.
  158. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> arronei: The problem with "content area" is that it is heavily used throughout that chapter, so it should probably be defined.
  159. # [18:41] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: Font metrics don't necessarily define a box with positions that are the em height.
  160. # [18:41] <TabAtkins_> arronei: So does anyone have update suggestions for it? I'm not 100% sure on what we actually want here.
  161. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: I sort of see this issue as a nice-to-fix, not a blocker.
  162. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> arronei: It's just a detail, helping to explain the text that is already there.
  163. # [18:43] <TabAtkins_> Bert: The current text has some variables - "a" and "b" - and perhaps those should be used in the diagrams as well.
  164. # [18:43] <TabAtkins_> arronei: I can look into that.
  165. # [18:43] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I agree with David - getting the images would be nice, but I don't think we should hold up the spec for them.
  166. # [18:44] <Bert> s/"b"/"d"/
  167. # [18:44] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: All right, issue 159?
  168. # [18:45] * Quits: dethbakin (dethbakin@76.102.99.47) (Quit: dethbakin)
  169. # [18:46] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: I haven't got a chance to diff this with the last version and see if there are any new comments, but I think that most of my comments have been addressed.
  170. # [18:46] <TabAtkins_> arronei: We've started reviewing it, but haven't finished.
  171. # [18:46] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: We'll give it a little more time for review, then.
  172. # [18:47] <TabAtkins_> plinss_: Issue 199.
  173. # [18:49] <TabAtkins_> TabAtkins_: I gave a proposal for this, but I'm bad at updating the wiki. I'll go find it and make sure it's fine today.
  174. # [18:49] <TabAtkins_> arronei: Bert, can we get an update on your edits?
  175. # [18:49] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I think there's about two dozen left to edit. I seem to be doing about 6-8 per week, so I should hopefully finish before TPAC.
  176. # [18:50] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I'm not sure if the edits I've alreayd made are correct yet, but assuming everything is fine, I should probably be done by TPAC.
  177. # [18:50] <Zakim> -dethbakin
  178. # [18:50] <Zakim> -David_Baron
  179. # [18:50] <Zakim> -smfr
  180. # [18:50] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  181. # [18:50] <Zakim> -TabAtkins_
  182. # [18:50] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  183. # [18:50] <Zakim> -JohnJansen
  184. # [18:50] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  185. # [18:50] <Zakim> -plinss
  186. # [18:51] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  187. # [18:51] <Zakim> -Bert
  188. # [18:51] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  189. # [18:51] <Zakim> Attendees were JohnJansen, arronei, +1.617.650.aaaa, kojiishi, dethbakin, plinss, David_Baron, +1.650.253.aabb, TabAtkins_, smfr, Bert, ChrisL, [Microsoft]
  190. # [18:51] * Quits: JohnJansen (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  191. # [18:51] <gsnedders> (On one other note, that I didn't see above, but could've missed: are people still expecting to get IR by the end of this week?)
  192. # [19:01] * Parts: smfr (smfr@17.203.14.12)
  193. # [19:16] <tabatkins> gsnedders: IE, Chrome, and Safari will all have submitted reports by the end of the week. Firefox won't, but dbaron seems to be on track to get one in the near future (he's burning the time to get it right and convert much of it over to reftests).
  194. # [19:27] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
  195. # [19:52] <dbaron> tabatkins, I'm not converting to reftests
  196. # [19:53] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Quit: Fire on main board error, client combusted)
  197. # [19:53] <dbaron> tabatkins, I'm just scoring images as pass/fail, so I only need to look at each image once.
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  200. # [20:02] <tabatkins> dbaron: Ah, okay. In that case, could I have the data you've generated later, so that I can turn them into reftests myself?
  201. # [20:03] <Ms2ger> tabatkins, everything is available
  202. # [20:07] <tabatkins> Ms2ger: Link?
  203. # [20:09] <Ms2ger> tabatkins, http://hg.mozilla.org/users/dbaron_mozilla.com/css21-implementation-report/
  204. # [20:09] <tabatkins> Excellent.
  205. # [20:11] <dbaron> tabatkins, data all public in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2010Oct/0051.html
  206. # [20:12] <tabatkins> Cool, thanks.
  207. # [20:12] * tabatkins only recently joined the public-css-testsuite list.
  208. # [20:23] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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The end :)