/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2010-12-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 08 17:39:57 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [17:39] * Now talking in #css
  4. # [17:39] * Topic is 'CSS Working Group Discussion - Logged to http://log.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/'
  5. # [17:39] * Set by plinss on Fri Nov 12 07:38:54
  6. # [17:46] * Attempting to rejoin channel #css
  7. # [17:46] * Rejoined channel #css
  8. # [17:46] * Topic is 'CSS Working Group Discussion - Logged to http://log.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/'
  9. # [17:46] * Set by plinss on Fri Nov 12 07:38:54
  10. # [17:57] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190)
  11. # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, code ?
  12. # [17:58] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), glazou
  13. # [17:58] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  14. # [17:59] <Zakim> +glazou
  15. # [17:59] <Zakim> +plinss_
  16. # [17:59] * Joins: plinss_ (plinss@68.107.116.23)
  17. # [18:00] * Joins: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129)
  18. # [18:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  19. # [18:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  20. # [18:02] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  21. # [18:02] <arronei> Zakim, microsoft has me
  22. # [18:02] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  23. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  24. # [18:03] * Joins: johnjan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  25. # [18:04] <johnjan> zakim, microsoft is johnjan
  26. # [18:04] <Zakim> +johnjan; got it
  27. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  28. # [18:04] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@192.150.19.4)
  29. # [18:04] <Zakim> +fantasai
  30. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P27
  31. # [18:05] <Zakim> +David_Baron
  32. # [18:05] <kojiishi> zakim, ??p27 is me
  33. # [18:05] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  34. # [18:05] * Joins: smfr (smfr@68.183.26.250)
  35. # [18:06] <Zakim> +smfr
  36. # [18:06] * Joins: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169)
  37. # [18:06] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  38. # [18:07] * smfr will probably get interrupted by a call from the car garage
  39. # [18:07] <glazou> np
  40. # [18:07] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  41. # [18:09] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  42. # [18:09] <fantasai> glazou: One extra agenda item from ChrisL
  43. # [18:09] <fantasai> glazou: anything else?
  44. # [18:10] <fantasai> Topic: css3-background
  45. # [18:10] <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
  46. # [18:10] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, plinss_, johnjan, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft], fantasai, kojiishi, David_Baron, smfr, SteveZ, ChrisL
  47. # [18:10] <Zakim> johnjan has arronei
  48. # [18:10] <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, smfr, szilles, johnjan, kojiishi, plinss_, dbaron, krijnh, karl, glazou, RRSAgent, Zakim, nimbupani, kennyluck, anne, arronei, jdaggett, plinss, CSSWG_LogBot,
  49. # [18:10] <Zakim> ... shepazu, jgraham, oyvind, fantasai, gsnedders, trackbot, Bert, Hixie
  50. # [18:10] <fantasai> glazou: What is the status of css3-background?
  51. # [18:11] <fantasai> fantasai: I don't know.
  52. # [18:11] <fantasai> glazou: Were there comments from other WGs that weren't responded to?
  53. # [18:12] <fantasai> fantasai: Not that I know of. Certainly not from PFWG -- those were responded to.
  54. # [18:12] <fantasai> ChrisL summarizes
  55. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Bert
  56. # [18:13] <fantasai> ChrisL: We have a timeline of what happened posted to our WG list, but nothing has been communicated to PFWG yet.
  57. # [18:13] <fantasai> Bert: I see that fantasai already added the issue to the DoC
  58. # [18:13] <fantasai> Bert: I don't have a date yet for the telecon with the director.
  59. # [18:13] <fantasai> Bert: I'm not sure what else we do?
  60. # [18:14] <fantasai> glazou: If we have nothing to do that's fine, I just wanted a short report.
  61. # [18:14] <fantasai> ChrisL: I was saying, we have our story straight, but we haven't communicated back to WAI-PF
  62. # [18:14] * Joins: howcome (howcome@213.236.208.22)
  63. # [18:15] <fantasai> Bert: So sounds like we should have a resolution to affirm fantasai's response
  64. # [18:15] <ChrisL> yes lets clarify the official position
  65. # [18:15] <fantasai> ACTION Daniel: send response
  66. # [18:15] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  67. # [18:15] * RRSAgent records action 1
  68. # [18:15] <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Daniel
  69. # [18:15] <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dglazman, dweck2)
  70. # [18:15] <fantasai> RESOLVED: fantasai's reply is official
  71. # [18:16] <dbaron> fantasai: Does this mean that every time PFWG sends a comment, if my response is a clarifying question to them, do we need a group resolution that the response is official?
  72. # [18:16] <fantasai> fantasai: So we need a WG resolution to ask such-and-such a question?
  73. # [18:17] <Zakim> +howcome
  74. # [18:17] <fantasai> Bert: Yes.
  75. # [18:17] <fantasai> ChrisL notes that Tracker can now have cross-wg issues
  76. # [18:18] <ChrisL> got a link to the timeline?
  77. # [18:18] <fantasai> Topic: WOFF LC
  78. # [18:18] <dbaron> Topic: WOFF
  79. # [18:18] <glazou> http://www.w3.org/TR/WOFF/
  80. # [18:18] <fantasai> ChrisL: LC on WOFF
  81. # [18:19] <fantasai> ChrisL: We have tried to keep WOFF orthogonal with CSS
  82. # [18:19] <fantasai> ChrisL: But it would be nice to get comments from someone in this WG not on the Fonts WG
  83. # [18:19] <fantasai> ChrisL: Even if the comment is "no comment"
  84. # [18:19] <fantasai> ACTION Daniel: review WOFF
  85. # [18:19] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  86. # [18:19] <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Daniel
  87. # [18:19] <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dglazman, dweck2)
  88. # [18:19] * RRSAgent records action 2
  89. # [18:20] <Bert> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2010OctDec/0295.html Fantasai's timeline of the WAI issue
  90. # [18:20] * dbaron points out to fantasai that trackbot can't make actions for "Daniel" anymore (two times, above)
  91. # [18:20] <ChrisL> trackbot, status
  92. # [18:20] * trackbot knows about the following 48 users: Nan, John, Cathy, Masayuki, Rune, Alex, Elika, Peter, Anne, Daniel, Yasuhiro, Richard, Steve, Koan-Sin, Cesar, Jer, Ilkka, Shinyu, Beth, Tantek, Soonbo, Håkon Wium, Daniel, Koji, Jeff, Tokushige, Dean, Robert, Arron, Giorgi, Øyvind, David, Ian, John, Bert, Sylvain, Tab, Molly, Markus, Brad, Chris, David, Emily, Somnath, Ben, David, Simon, Tona
  93. # [18:20] <glazou> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/progress/
  94. # [18:20] <fantasai> ACTION glazman: review WOFF
  95. # [18:20] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  96. # [18:20] * RRSAgent records action 3
  97. # [18:20] <trackbot> Created ACTION-278 - Review WOFF [on Daniel Glazman - due 2010-12-15].
  98. # [18:20] <fantasai> Topic: Progress Events
  99. # [18:20] <fantasai> glazou: LC comments due Jan 13
  100. # [18:21] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/progress/
  101. # [18:21] <ChrisL> action: glazman to send response to WAI PF
  102. # [18:21] * RRSAgent records action 4
  103. # [18:21] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  104. # [18:21] <trackbot> Created ACTION-279 - Send response to WAI PF [on Daniel Glazman - due 2010-12-15].
  105. # [18:21] <fantasai> ACTION everyone: review and send comments on WebAPI Progress Events draft
  106. # [18:21] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  107. # [18:21] * RRSAgent records action 5
  108. # [18:21] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - everyone
  109. # [18:21] <fantasai> Topic: CSS2.1 Test Suite
  110. # [18:21] <fantasai> glazou: Chris, I saw you sent a message about Prince an hour ago
  111. # [18:21] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.101)
  112. # [18:21] <fantasai> ChrisL: I ran all the paged media tests and the tests that don't have two passes
  113. # [18:22] <fantasai> ChrisL: About 250 tests
  114. # [18:22] <fantasai> glazou: Excellent work.
  115. # [18:22] <fantasai> s/glazou/howcome/
  116. # [18:22] * fantasai needs a link to this message
  117. # [18:23] <howcome> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2010Dec/0117.html
  118. # [18:23] <fantasai> fantasai: I still haven't made it through all the issues reported against the test suite
  119. # [18:23] <glazou> http://test.csswg.org/harness/results?s=CSS21_%HTML_RC3&t=0&f[]=1&f[]=4&f[]=8&f[]=16
  120. # [18:23] <fantasai> fantasai: It's the only thing I'm working on, though, so I can't go any faster...
  121. # [18:24] <fantasai> howcome: Chris's results haven't been imported yet
  122. # [18:26] * Joins: danielweck (dweck2@86.172.35.44)
  123. # [18:26] <fantasai> Peter: ChrisL, I sent you a link that shows the tests that are needed in the order that they're needed
  124. # [18:26] <fantasai> Peter: It's the same way as entering data for browsers, except it overrids the UA string to say it's Prince
  125. # [18:27] <danielweck> (Daniel enters the concall late: sorry, was stuck in traffic)
  126. # [18:27] <glazou> np danielweck
  127. # [18:27] <plinss_> http://test.csswg.org/harness/testcase?s=CSS21_HTML_RC3&u=435&o=1
  128. # [18:27] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
  129. # [18:27] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, plinss_, johnjan, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft], fantasai, kojiishi, David_Baron, smfr, SteveZ, ChrisL, Bert, howcome
  130. # [18:27] <plinss_> http://test.csswg.org/harness/testcase?s=CSS21_XHTML_RC3&u=435&o=1
  131. # [18:27] <Zakim> johnjan has arronei
  132. # [18:27] <Zakim> On IRC I see danielweck, sylvaing, howcome, ChrisL, smfr, szilles, johnjan, kojiishi, plinss_, dbaron, krijnh, karl, glazou, RRSAgent, Zakim, nimbupani, kennyluck, anne, arronei,
  133. # [18:27] <Zakim> ... jdaggett, plinss, CSSWG_LogBot, shepazu, jgraham, oyvind, fantasai, gsnedders, trackbot, Bert, Hixie
  134. # [18:28] <fantasai> Peter: If you use either of these to URLs, it will show tests in the order most needed for Prince.
  135. # [18:28] <fantasai> Peter: wrt broken lists in the page there, it's because the harness doesn't know there's one test suite with two formats
  136. # [18:28] <fantasai> Peter: It thinks there are two test suites, and I just had it allow wildcards in the test suite names
  137. # [18:29] <fantasai> Peter: Once I get reftest support in the harness, I'll work on that
  138. # [18:30] <Zakim> +??P9
  139. # [18:30] <fantasai> Peter: The harness says that 80 tests need additional results, and may or may not have two passes when we import Prince's results
  140. # [18:30] <glazou> Zakim, P9 is danielweck
  141. # [18:30] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
  142. # [18:30] * dbaron Zakim, ??P9 is danielweck
  143. # [18:30] * Zakim +danielweck; got it
  144. # [18:30] <glazou> Zakim, ?P9 is danielweck
  145. # [18:30] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '?P9'
  146. # [18:31] <danielweck> Zakim, ??P9 is danielweck
  147. # [18:31] <Zakim> I already had ??P9 as danielweck, danielweck
  148. # [18:31] <fantasai> Peter: 26 tests with blocking failures means one or more engines need to fix their bugs to get passes
  149. # [18:31] <glazou> http://test.csswg.org/harness/results?s=CSS21_HTML_RC3&t=0&f[]=1&f[]=4&f[]=8&f[]=16
  150. # [18:32] <fantasai> arron: Maybe we should do another RC just to get the updated tests out there
  151. # [18:32] <fantasai> fantasai: I can push another release out today. What's blocking me is fixing the rest of the tests.
  152. # [18:32] <fantasai> arronei: Let's just publish RC4, and fix the rest for RC5
  153. # [18:33] <fantasai> glazou: Question related to the schedule: Who is going to be away during the holiday season?
  154. # [18:34] <szilles> I will be away from the 22nd thru 3rd of Jan
  155. # [18:34] <fantasai> plinss_: HP officially shuts down from 22nd to Jan 3rd. I won't be going anywhere
  156. # [18:34] <dbaron> I'll be on the east coast for a bit, but will likely be able to call in.
  157. # [18:34] * ChrisL elika is the energizer bunny, she doesn't take breaks
  158. # [18:34] * ChrisL but she should
  159. # [18:34] <johnjan> I'll be offline from the 20th - 3rd
  160. # [18:35] * fantasai took a long break over Thanksgiving due to being sick :(
  161. # [18:35] * ChrisL being sick is not vacation
  162. # [18:35] <glazou> right
  163. # [18:35] <oyvind> (I'll be offline, including 29th)
  164. # [18:35] <sylvaing> I'll be out Christmas week.
  165. # [18:35] <fantasai> arronei: I'm going to be around until the end of the year, so should be able to address any MS comments
  166. # [18:35] <fantasai> arronei: Will do impl report with new RC soon as well
  167. # [18:36] <fantasai> ACTION fantasai: publish RC4 asap, push remaining fixes to RC5
  168. # [18:36] * RRSAgent records action 6
  169. # [18:36] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  170. # [18:36] <trackbot> Created ACTION-280 - Publish RC4 asap, push remaining fixes to RC5 [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-12-15].
  171. # [18:36] <Bert> I'm unavailable on 22 and 29, and almost certainly also on 5.
  172. # [18:36] * ChrisL cancel 29th
  173. # [18:36] * fantasai will be here on the 29th
  174. # [18:37] <fantasai> Telecon cancelled on the 29th
  175. # [18:37] <fantasai> howcome: I had an action point to look into a test
  176. # [18:37] <fantasai> howcome: first-page-selectors-003
  177. # [18:37] <howcome> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Nov/0421.html
  178. # [18:38] <fantasai> howcome: It would be good to resolve whether it is valid
  179. # [18:38] <fantasai> howcome: It's not clear right now.
  180. # [18:38] <fantasai> howcome: We may want it to be valid
  181. # [18:38] <fantasai> howcome: But we'd have to change the spec slightly
  182. # [18:38] <fantasai> howcome: Question is if you force a break before the first page, is the first actual page selected by :first?
  183. # [18:39] <fantasai> oyvind thinks the first page that is not printed should match :first
  184. # [18:39] <fantasai> howcome: It's more useful if you select something that's there.
  185. # [18:40] <fantasai> howcome: I think it makes more sense to select the first thing that's printed
  186. # [18:40] <fantasai> howcome: But if we are to do that, we probably need to change CSS2.1
  187. # [18:40] <oyvind> I have no strong opinions on what it should match, but I think the spec needs to be clarified
  188. # [18:40] <fantasai> fantasai: It would be a clarification -- the spec right now is quite vague
  189. # [18:41] <fantasai> fantasai: This was certainly the intent in CSS3 Paged Media. There is no other way to specify whether the first page is a left or right page
  190. # [18:42] <fantasai> johnjan: I'd like a day or two to make sure Alex is comfortable with it
  191. # [18:43] <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/page.html#page-selectors
  192. # [18:43] <fantasai> howcome: What we're putting here is really a hack to say whether the first page is :left or :right
  193. # [18:45] <fantasai> Bert: I've used forced page breaks to create a blank first page
  194. # [18:46] <fantasai> fantasai: We could leave this undefined for 2.1
  195. # [18:46] <fantasai> glazou: Both interpretations are useful; but we have to pick one
  196. # [18:47] <fantasai> howcome: I think we might have trouble finding implementations
  197. # [18:47] <fantasai> arronei: They all currently fail
  198. # [18:48] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Make it undefined whether forced break before first page creates a :first page or a blank page
  199. # [18:48] <fantasai> ACTION fantasai: Propose wording
  200. # [18:48] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  201. # [18:48] * RRSAgent records action 7
  202. # [18:48] <trackbot> Created ACTION-281 - Propose wording [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-12-15].
  203. # [18:48] <fantasai> glazou: Anything else we can do on 2.1?
  204. # [18:49] <fantasai> ACTION fantasai: move page-selector-003 and page-selector-004 to css3-page TS
  205. # [18:49] * RRSAgent records action 8
  206. # [18:49] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  207. # [18:49] <trackbot> Created ACTION-282 - Move page-selector-003 and page-selector-004 to css3-page TS [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-12-15].
  208. # [18:49] <fantasai> Topic: Gradients
  209. # [18:50] <fantasai> glazou: Can anyone summarize? Are we reaching a consensus?
  210. # [18:50] <fantasai> Simon: I think we have to have Tab here. I don't think we have agreement between Brad and Tab yet
  211. # [18:50] <fantasai> glazou: I read a few of the proposals, and some of them declared as simple and easy just scared me
  212. # [18:51] <fantasai> Simon: Tab has an advantage in that he has a spec. I don't quite understand Brad's propsal well enough to know whether I can implement it.
  213. # [18:52] <fantasai> Steve: We seem to be getting very complex in the backgrounds. Wouldn't it make more sense to generate images and be able to plug it in as a background.
  214. # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: we're doing that already ...?
  215. # [18:52] <fantasai> Simon: Backgrounds have more things to deal with, e.g. tiling
  216. # [18:52] <fantasai> Simon: If you rotate the image, do you also rotate the grid?
  217. # [18:53] <fantasai> Simon: Sounds complicated
  218. # [18:53] <fantasai> Steve: Tying the way images are processed to the way the grid is done seems like a problem.
  219. # [18:53] <fantasai> Simon: I don't think we're tying them together.
  220. # [18:54] <fantasai> ...
  221. # [18:54] <fantasai> Simon: Rick was suggesting rotation as an alternate way to have angled gradients
  222. # [18:55] <fantasai> fantasai: The reason you want the angle information in the gradient itself is that it allows the gradient to be sized appropriately to the box
  223. # [18:55] <fantasai> Simon: I agree
  224. # [18:55] <fantasai> Simon: ... mailing list
  225. # [18:55] <fantasai> glazou: Anything else to discuss in the 8 remaining minutes?
  226. # [18:55] * sylvaing thought he was the only one lost in the gradient debate...
  227. # [18:55] <Zakim> -David_Baron
  228. # [18:55] <fantasai> Meeting closed.
  229. # [18:56] <Zakim> -smfr
  230. # [18:56] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  231. # [18:56] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  232. # [18:56] <Zakim> -johnjan
  233. # [18:56] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  234. # [18:56] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  235. # [18:56] <Zakim> -glazou
  236. # [18:56] <Zakim> -danielweck
  237. # [18:56] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  238. # [18:56] <Zakim> -plinss_
  239. # [18:56] * Quits: johnjan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  240. # [18:56] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
  241. # [18:56] * fantasai is lost too, so you're not alone :)
  242. # [18:56] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  243. # [18:56] <Zakim> -Bert
  244. # [18:56] <Zakim> -fantasai
  245. # [18:57] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@192.150.19.4) (Ping timeout)
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  248. # [19:08] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, howcome, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  249. # [19:08] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  250. # [19:08] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, plinss_, arronei, johnjan, [Microsoft], fantasai, David_Baron, kojiishi, smfr, SteveZ, ChrisL, Bert, howcome, danielweck
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  253. # [19:17] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Quit: Fire on main board error, client combusted)
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  260. # [20:42] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  261. # [20:42] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  262. # [20:52] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.101)
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  264. # [21:32] * Quits: CSSWG_LogBot (PircBot@173.230.149.95) (Client exited)
  265. # [21:32] * Joins: CSSWG_LogBot (PircBot@173.230.149.95)
  266. # [21:33] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.80)
  267. # [22:02] * Joins: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169)
  268. # [22:09] * Joins: jdaggett_ (jdaggett@118.243.79.250)
  269. # [22:15] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  270. # [22:57] * Joins: anne (annevk@95.34.115.33)
  271. # [23:07] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58)
  272. # [23:13] * Joins: smfr (smfr@17.203.15.245)
  273. # [23:13] * Parts: smfr (smfr@17.203.15.245)
  274. # [23:34] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Quit: Fire on main board error, client combusted)
  275. # [23:47] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@64.9.231.142)
  276. # [23:59] * Joins: homata (homata@58.158.182.50)
  277. # Session Close: Thu Dec 09 00:00:00 2010

The end :)