/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-01-26 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jan 26 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:03] * gsnedders reappears
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  10. # [00:11] <dbaron> 173.230.149.95 wiki.csswg.org
  11. # [00:12] <gsnedders> dbaron: What I don't get wrt quotes-035 is the result Opera gives is inconsistent, and I remember looking at this around a year and a half ago and never fully understanding it :)
  12. # [00:12] <smfr> 173.230.149.95 wiki.csswg.org
  13. # [00:14] <gsnedders> Isn't it""" wonderful to see [FAIL to]!!!""
  14. # [00:14] <gsnedders> That's the result Opera /sometimes/ gives.
  15. # [00:16] <gsnedders> (I'm tempted to say it's somehow a race-condition, but dunno exactly)
  16. # [00:23] <gsnedders> CORE-34337: vertical-align doesn't work on :first-line
  17. # [00:25] <gsnedders> CORE-34343 (nice number!): Background area for :first-line is too big (covers entire line box) is the other thing that should affect it (I didn't do the QA on this, damnit!)
  18. # [00:37] <dbaron> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=611099
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  20. # [01:05] <smfr> cursor-024
  21. # [01:13] <smfr> http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110111/html4/dynamic-top-change-005.htm
  22. # [01:35] * Joins: homata (homata@58.158.182.50)
  23. # [01:35] <fantasai> gsnedders: white space bug on table-anonymous-188?
  24. # [01:36] <gsnedders> fantasai: I don't understand where the white space should come from, but that's probably just my failing understanding of the spec
  25. # [01:43] <gsnedders> (Actually, I can probably phone in at around 23:00–23:30 for a bit, but see how tired I am — I have a long day on Thursday.)
  26. # [01:43] <gsnedders> (23:00 Europe/London, obviously)
  27. # [01:45] <gsnedders> <!DOCTYPE html><style>body > span:after { content: "bar"; } span span { display: table-cell; }</style><span><span>foo</span> </span> seems to be all Opera's bug is there
  28. # [01:50] <gsnedders> Heh. The always made mistake has been made again on www-style. My surname is "Sneddon", not "Snedders", tantek. :)
  29. # [01:58] * Joins: jdaggett (jdaggett@202.221.217.73)
  30. # [02:02] <tantek> gsendders - my apologies
  31. # [02:03] <gsnedders> tantek: It's no problem, it just amuses me that the mistake is still made :)
  32. # [02:12] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2007JanMar/0514.html
  33. # [02:34] <bradk> http://test.csswg.org/harness/testcase?s=CSS21_HTML_RC5&c=bidi-005
  34. # [02:37] <fantasai> Bert: dbaron reports that some pages of the CSS2.1 Working Draft are styled as Editor's Draft. Is that something you can fix?
  35. # [02:37] <dbaron> (many of the chapters, such as 11, 12, 14-17)
  36. # [02:37] <dbaron> or something like that
  37. # [03:13] * Quits: bradk (bradk@216.239.45.19) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  38. # [03:20] <fantasai> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22text-overflow%3A%20ellipsis%3B%20width%3A%208em%3B%20border%3A%20solid%3B%20white-space%3Anowrap%3B%20overflow%3A%20hidden%3B%22%3E%0D%0Aa%20b%20c%20d%20e%20f%20g%20h%20%20%D7%A2%D6%B4%D7%91%D6%B0%D7%A8%D6%B4%D7%99%D7%AA%20%0D%0A%3C%2Fdiv%3E
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  40. # [03:23] <fantasai> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22text-overflow%3A%20ellipsis%3B%20width%3A%208em%3B%20border%3A%20solid%3B%20white-space%3Anowrap%3B%20overflow%3A%20hidden%3B%22%3E%0D%0Aa%20b%20c%20d%20e%20f%20g%20h%20%20%D7%A2%D6%B4%D7%91%D6%B0%D7%A8%D6%B4%D7%99%D7%AA%20%0D%0A%3C%2Fdiv%3E
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  42. # [03:28] <smfr> http://www.cascalrestaurant.com/
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  57. # [07:25] <plinss_> TabAtkins_: Please don't forget to send out directions where to meet tomorrow...
  58. # [07:25] <TabAtkins_> Yup, writing the email now.
  59. # [07:25] <plinss_> cool, thx
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  64. # [08:18] <fantasai> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22text-overflow%3A%20ellipsis%3B%20width%3A%208em%3B%20border%3A%20solid%3B%20white-space%3Anowrap%3B%20overflow%3A%20hidden%3B%22%3E%0D%0Aa%20b%20c%20d%20e%20f%20g%20h%20%20%D7%A2%D6%B4%D7%91%D6%B0%D7%A8%D6%B4%D7%99%D7%AA%20%0D%0A%3C%2Fdiv%3E
  65. # [08:24] <TabAtkins_> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22text-overflow:%20ellipsis;%20width:%207.8em;%20border:%20solid;%20white-space:nowrap;%20overflow:%20hidden;%22%20id%3Dfoo%3E%0Aa%20b%20c%20d%20e%20f%20g%20h%20%20%D7%A2%D6%B4%D7%91%D6%B0%D7%A8%D6%B4%D7%99%D7%AA%20%0A%3C/div%3E%0A%3Cinput%20type%3Drange%20min%3D6%20max%3D8%20value%3D8%20step%3D0.1%20i
  66. # [08:24] <TabAtkins_> d%3Dslider%20onchange%3D%22foo.style.width%20%3D%20this.value%20%2B%20'em';%22%3E
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  69. # [08:46] <fantasai> hey Bert, do you know what's up with http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Fonts/ ?
  70. # [08:46] <fantasai> Bert: it's giving a 502 Bad Gateway respone
  71. # [08:46] <fantasai> se
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  74. # [08:54] <fantasai> Arron: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Fonts/AhemExtra/
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  82. # [10:18] <Bert> Fantasai, http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Fonts/ seems to work for me...
  83. # [10:31] <Bert> And I fixed the style sheets on the WD. Thanks for the report!
  84. # [10:37] * Quits: homata (homata@58.158.182.50) (Quit: Leaving...)
  85. # [12:57] <myakura> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Fonts/ doesn't work for me either, while http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Fonts/AhemExtra/ does.
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  93. # [15:45] <karl> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/rendering.html#css-extensions
  94. # [15:47] <karl> it doesn't seem to have been proposed yet to the CSS WG.
  95. # [15:47] <karl> http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?keywords=%27%3A%3Acue%27+pseudo-element&hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=&index-grp=Public_FULL&index-type=g&type-index=
  96. # [15:47] <karl> Maybe in the plans?
  97. # [15:47] <karl> >A CSS user agent that implements the text tracks model must implement the '::cue' and '::cue(selector)' pseudo-elements, and the ':past' and ':future' pseudo-classes.
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  104. # [17:34] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  105. # [17:34] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 29 minutes
  106. # [17:34] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  107. # [17:34] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  108. # [17:45] * Quits: Martijnc (Martijnc@91.176.54.30) (Quit: Martijnc)
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  114. # [18:01] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  115. # [18:01] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), glazou
  116. # [18:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  117. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +39.508.9.aaaa
  118. # [18:01] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is me
  119. # [18:01] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  120. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aabb
  121. # [18:01] <Zakim> - +1.650.214.aabb
  122. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aabb
  123. # [18:02] * Joins: plinss_ (plinss@216.239.45.19)
  124. # [18:02] <plinss_> zakim, who is here?
  125. # [18:02] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, +1.650.214.aabb
  126. # [18:02] <Zakim> On IRC I see plinss_, bradk, kojiishi, Martijnc, Zakim, glazou, karl, kennyluck, miketaylr, arronei, anne, myakura, RRSAgent, krijnh, fantasai, gsnedders, jgraham, lhnz, TabAtkins,
  127. # [18:03] <Zakim> ... trackbot, plinss, shepazu, Bert, Hixie, CSSWG_LogBot
  128. # [18:03] <plinss_> zakim, aabb is [Google]
  129. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Google]; got it
  130. # [18:03] <plinss_> zakim, [Google] has plinss
  131. # [18:03] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@216.239.45.19)
  132. # [18:03] <Zakim> +plinss; got it
  133. # [18:03] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  134. # [18:03] <plinss_> member:zakim, [Google] has TabAtkins
  135. # [18:03] * Zakim sees on the phone: glazou, [Google]
  136. # [18:03] * Zakim [Google] has plinss
  137. # [18:03] <glazou> lots of noise, hard to hear you
  138. # [18:04] <plinss_> Zakim, [Google] has TabAtkins
  139. # [18:04] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22)
  140. # [18:04] * dbaron Zakim, [Google] has dbaron
  141. # [18:04] <plinss_> Zakim, [Google] has dbaron
  142. # [18:04] <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
  143. # [18:04] * Zakim +dbaron; got it
  144. # [18:04] <plinss_> Zakim, [Google] has arronei
  145. # [18:04] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@216.239.45.4)
  146. # [18:04] <Zakim> dbaron was already listed in [Google], plinss_
  147. # [18:04] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  148. # [18:04] <plinss_> Zakim, [Google] has johnjan
  149. # [18:04] <Zakim> +johnjan; got it
  150. # [18:04] <plinss_> Zakim, [Google] has fantasai
  151. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P27
  152. # [18:04] <plinss_> zakim, who is here?
  153. # [18:04] * Joins: JohnJan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  154. # [18:04] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  155. # [18:04] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, [Google], ??P27
  156. # [18:04] <kojiishi> zakim, ??P27 is me
  157. # [18:04] <Zakim> [Google] has fantasai
  158. # [18:05] * Joins: Arron (arronei@216.239.45.19)
  159. # [18:05] * Joins: smfr (smfr@68.183.195.83)
  160. # [18:05] * dbaron Zakim, [Google] has dbaron, plinss, TabAtkins, johnjan, arronei, fantasai
  161. # [18:05] <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnJan, TabAtkins_, oyvind, dbaron, plinss_, bradk, kojiishi, Martijnc, Zakim, glazou, karl, kennyluck, miketaylr, arronei, anne, myakura, RRSAgent, krijnh, fantasai,
  162. # [18:05] <Zakim> ... gsnedders, jgraham, lhnz, TabAtkins, trackbot, plinss, shepazu, Bert, Hixie, CSSWG_LogBot
  163. # [18:05] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  164. # [18:05] * Zakim fantasai was already listed in [Google], dbaron
  165. # [18:05] * Zakim +dbaron, plinss, TabAtkins, johnjan, arronei; got it
  166. # [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aacc
  167. # [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aadd
  168. # [18:06] <smfr> Zakim, aadd is me
  169. # [18:06] <smfr> Zakim is sleepy
  170. # [18:06] <bradk> Zakim, aacc is me
  171. # [18:06] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  172. # [18:06] * Joins: cesar (acebal@85.152.178.140)
  173. # [18:06] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  174. # [18:07] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  175. # [18:07] <Zakim> +??P16
  176. # [18:07] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  177. # [18:07] * Zakim sees on the phone: glazou, [Google], kojiishi, bradk, smfr, SteveZ, ??P16
  178. # [18:08] <cesar> I suppose P16 it's me, calling from Skype, I'm not sure...
  179. # [18:08] * Zakim [Google] has dbaron, plinss, TabAtkins, johnjan, arronei
  180. # [18:08] * dbaron Zakim, ??P16 is cesar
  181. # [18:08] * glazou remembers the "oh 1am already, no problem, Denny's is still open" :-)
  182. # [18:08] <cesar> Thanks, David. ;)
  183. # [18:08] * Zakim +cesar; got it
  184. # [18:08] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172)
  185. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +34.92.38.aaee
  186. # [18:09] <JohnJan> ah yes glazou, denny's makes every night an all night.
  187. # [18:09] <glazou> WARF
  188. # [18:09] <glazou> speaking of cuisine, I can find better :-)
  189. # [18:10] <bradk> you're making me hungry
  190. # [18:10] * glazou will cook a "confit de canard" tonight
  191. # [18:11] <glazou> "tantek anywhere, any time, connected" again ?
  192. # [18:13] <JohnJan> * how many CSS engineers does it take to populate a conference room?
  193. # [18:13] <glazou> JohnJan: how many CSS engineers does it take to start a conf call?-)
  194. # [18:14] * dbaron Zakim, [Google] has dbaron, plinss, TabAtkins, johnjan, arronei, fantasai, Tantek
  195. # [18:14] * Zakim dbaron was already listed in [Google], dbaron
  196. # [18:14] * Zakim plinss was already listed in [Google], dbaron
  197. # [18:14] * Zakim TabAtkins was already listed in [Google], dbaron
  198. # [18:14] * Zakim johnjan was already listed in [Google], dbaron
  199. # [18:14] * Zakim arronei was already listed in [Google], dbaron
  200. # [18:14] * Zakim +fantasai, Tantek; got it
  201. # [18:14] <Bert> zakim, aaee is me
  202. # [18:14] <Zakim> +Bert; got it
  203. # [18:15] <glazou> is someone minuting ?
  204. # [18:15] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  205. # [18:15] <fantasai> Topic: CSS2.1 Test Suite
  206. # [18:16] <fantasai> plinss: Yesterday a bunch of us went through tests. We have passes or plans for each one
  207. # [18:16] <fantasai> plinss: some issues resulting
  208. # [18:16] * Joins: tantek (tantek@216.239.45.19)
  209. # [18:16] <fantasai> plinss: first item, we have a number of run-in tests that fail, no plans for implementations for those tests
  210. # [18:16] <fantasai> plinss: plan is to move run-in and its tests to a css3 module
  211. # [18:17] <fantasai> plinss: any objections from the phone? we have consensus here
  212. # [18:17] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aaff
  213. # [18:17] <Bert> Disappointing that such a basic tupography still doesn't work. :-( But in the interest of finally getting rid of CSS 2.1...
  214. # [18:17] * Joins: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.2)
  215. # [18:17] * dbaron Zakim, aaff is howcome
  216. # [18:17] * Zakim +howcome; got it
  217. # [18:17] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jan/0542.html
  218. # [18:18] <glazou> "THANK GOD WE HAVE HOWCOME"
  219. # [18:18] <glazou> :)
  220. # [18:19] <fantasai> plinss: do not plan to remove it, do not plan to prefix it, just move definition and tests to css3
  221. # [18:19] * glazou laughs and laughs
  222. # [18:19] <fantasai> howcome: I wouldn't take it out.
  223. # [18:19] <fantasai> plinss: Give us a proposal that gets us out of CR within a month
  224. # [18:19] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Accept http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jan/0542.html
  225. # [18:20] <fantasai> fantasai: Drop vertical-align from required properties for ::first-line
  226. # [18:20] <fantasai> dbaron: Gecko is the only browser that implements it. Spec doesn't particularly describe how it's supposed to work other than "it's mostly like an inline element"
  227. # [18:21] <fantasai> dbaron: Spec lists MUST properties and has MAY for all other properties
  228. # [18:21] <fantasai> dbaron: so our impl would end up in the MAY category
  229. # [18:21] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jan/0541.html
  230. # [18:21] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Drop 'vertical-align' from list of ::first-line required properties.
  231. # [18:22] <fantasai> plinss: Bidi, were going to leave the interaction of spacing undefined
  232. # [18:22] <fantasai> fantasai: What's failing is that impls trim leading and trailing white space on a line before bidi reordering instead of after, so we have test bidi-004 failing in everythin
  233. # [18:22] <fantasai> g
  234. # [18:23] <fantasai> fantasai: But that's clearly the right behavior, so we shouldn't change the spec, just leave the definition for CSS3
  235. # [18:23] <fantasai> fantasai: And make undefined for CSS2.1
  236. # [18:23] <fantasai> "Then, the block container's inlines are laid out. Inlines are laid out, taking bidi reordering into account, and wrapping as specified by the 'white-space' property. When wrapping, line breaking opportunities are determined based on the text prior to the white space collapsing steps above. "
  237. # [18:23] <fantasai> followed by trimming steps
  238. # [18:23] <fantasai> so we would remove the mention of bidi reordering
  239. # [18:24] <fantasai> and add that a sentence saying that the interaction with bidi is undefined with the steps below
  240. # [18:24] <fantasai> (but not above, 'cuz we have interop on that)
  241. # [18:24] <dbaron> could also say ... but implementations may follow them, or something like that
  242. # [18:24] <fantasai> RESOLVED: do that
  243. # [18:25] <fantasai> fantasai: other issue was the containing block formed by an relpos'ed inline element
  244. # [18:25] <fantasai> fantasai: that breaks across multiple lines
  245. # [18:25] <fantasai> fantasai: proposed to make resulting containing block undefined
  246. # [18:26] <fantasai> fantasai: so would remain defined if inline is all on one line
  247. # [18:26] <fantasai> fantasai: just not if it's split across multiple lines
  248. # [18:26] <fantasai> containing-block-032
  249. # [18:26] <fantasai> Status
  250. # [18:27] <fantasai> http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110111/html4/containing-block-032.htm
  251. # [18:28] <fantasai> RESOLVED: make containing block formed by inline split across multiple lines undefined
  252. # [18:28] <fantasai> plinss: We had a test that passes in one impl, but if you split the test then we have two impls per piece
  253. # [18:29] <fantasai> dbaron: Splitting the test doesn't help with our exit criteria because it's per-feature, not per test
  254. # [18:29] <fantasai> dbaron: But we could make a convincing argument about implementability
  255. # [18:29] <fantasai> dbaron: because there are two impls of each part of the feature
  256. # [18:29] <fantasai> dbaron: and one impl that is capable of implementing both
  257. # [18:30] <fantasai> dbaron: Suggestion is to keep the test, but also make split versions
  258. # [18:30] <fantasai> plinss: Question for Daniel, Bert - do you think we can defend that?
  259. # [18:31] * Bert will call in again, it seems people don't hear me...
  260. # [18:31] <Zakim> -Bert
  261. # [18:32] <fantasai> Daniel: Seems bad to have a red line in the impl report
  262. # [18:32] <fantasai> dbaron: Our exit criteria are per feature anyway, not per test
  263. # [18:32] <Zakim> +Bert
  264. # [18:33] <fantasai> Arron: Doesn't seem like we would get a fixed impl soon enough
  265. # [18:33] <fantasai> Bert: I think you can argue about test suites. MathWG has done the same, for example.
  266. # [18:33] * bradk can hear Bert fine
  267. # [18:33] <fantasai> Bert: You can do that. But it is work: you have to prepare those explanations.
  268. # [18:34] <fantasai> Bert: So I think it depends how much you want the original tests to stay in the test suite.
  269. # [18:34] <fantasai> plinss: I could go either way.
  270. # [18:34] <fantasai> plinss: I think we're more honest to not remove the original.
  271. # [18:34] <fantasai> SteveZ: can you flag the test yellow?
  272. # [18:35] <fantasai> plinss: Yes, we're adding some concepts to the test suite about parent-child tests
  273. # [18:35] <fantasai> plinss: Daniel, you on board?
  274. # [18:35] <fantasai> Daniel: Yes, that's fine.
  275. # [18:35] <glazou> #test1267 > :first-child { color: green } #test1267 > :last-child { color: red }
  276. # [18:35] * bradk suggests #ffcc00
  277. # [18:36] <fantasai> dbaron: I don't want to remove the parent because I can imagine a case where impl passes both children, but fails the parent
  278. # [18:36] <fantasai> plinss: We have a plan.
  279. # [18:37] <fantasai> plinss: Other issue is margin-collapse, if we want to discuss that now.
  280. # [18:37] <fantasai> dbaron: I wrote an email to hixie, which I should probably repurpose to an email to www-style
  281. # [18:37] <fantasai> dbaron: Briefly, hyatt proposed changing the margin collapsing rules in 2007
  282. # [18:37] <fantasai> dbaron: To prevent a counter-intuitive behavior, of elements moving up and margins disappearing.
  283. # [18:38] <fantasai> dbaron: We resolved to fix that.
  284. # [18:38] <fantasai> dbaron: However, if you read the spec very carefully, the fix didn't actually work
  285. # [18:38] <fantasai> dbaron: The tests are for what the spec was intended to say
  286. # [18:38] <fantasai> dbaron: But implementations have not changed
  287. # [18:38] <fantasai> dbaron: And IE claims there are web-compat issues
  288. # [18:39] <fantasai> Arron: Also Acid2 is affected.
  289. # [18:39] <fantasai> dbaron: Although if we tell hixie to fix Acid2, he'll fix Acid2
  290. # [18:39] <fantasai> Arron: We have two implementations of the intended behavior, from Antenna House and WebToPDF.
  291. # [18:39] <dbaron> s/he'll/I think he'll/
  292. # [18:39] <fantasai> Arron: So we have the passes we need
  293. # [18:40] <fantasai> Arron: If we don't change the spec, but change the tests, then we have passes from all the browsers.
  294. # [18:40] <glazou> am stram gram pic et pic et colegram, choice n
  295. # [18:40] <fantasai> fantasai: We also noted that there are existing patches for Gecko and Trident that would implement the intended behavior, if that was chosen.
  296. # [18:40] <fantasai> plinss: So we're not blocked on this issue
  297. # [18:41] <fantasai> dbaron: It's easier to leave as-is, but I'm not sure that's good for authors.
  298. # [18:41] <bradk> Add -webkit-margin-collapse property?
  299. # [18:42] * Quits: anne (annevk@83.85.115.123) (Quit: anne)
  300. # [18:42] <fantasai> fantasai: Could also leave it undefined for now -- allow both behaviors -- and lock it down after testing in a beta cycle
  301. # [18:43] <fantasai> Arron and John Jansen are in favor of leaving the behavior.
  302. # [18:44] <fantasai> fantasai is not happy with margins, however large, mysteriously disappearing.
  303. # [18:44] <fantasai> fantasai: I think we should just list the two behaviors and allow one or the other. Decide later once we have better chance to check web compat
  304. # [18:44] <dbaron> I think I prefer fantasai's suggestion.
  305. # [18:45] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Have spec allow either margin collapsing behavior in this margin-collapse-clear test
  306. # [18:45] <dbaron> fantasai: Can have two controls within the same test to test for that.
  307. # [18:47] <fantasai> plinss: going to split some bidi tests up, and fix a few erros, but other than that we're mostly done here
  308. # [18:47] <fantasai> Topic: Publishing Specs
  309. # [18:47] <fantasai> Topic: CSS3 Image Values
  310. # [18:47] <fantasai> Tab: I have some pending notes to put in about gradient issues, I will put in as issues in the working draft.
  311. # [18:48] <fantasai> Tab: Leif raised a few small issues
  312. # [18:48] <fantasai> Tab: Leif wants object-fit: none;
  313. # [18:48] <fantasai> dbaron: I really don't want that
  314. # [18:48] <fantasai> Tab: I would like to go to WG
  315. # [18:48] <fantasai> Wd
  316. # [18:48] <fantasai> Brad: I have some notes I want captured.
  317. # [18:49] <fantasai> RESOLVED: publish css3-images WD after Brad approves issue edits
  318. # [18:49] <fantasai> Topic: CSS3 Writing Modes
  319. # [18:50] * bradk has to leave early to go to the dentist now. Bye!
  320. # [18:50] <fantasai> fantasai: No major substantive changes. Mainly lots of editorial edits, and lots of tweaking of details e.g. in box model section.
  321. # [18:50] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/
  322. # [18:51] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  323. # [18:51] <Zakim> -bradk
  324. # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: Just want to publish an updated WD for comments
  325. # [18:52] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Publish css3-writing-modes as WD
  326. # [18:52] <fantasai> Topic: CSS3 Text
  327. # [18:52] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/
  328. # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: A lot of changes to this draft, some major, others minor
  329. # [18:53] <fantasai> fantasai: I updated the changes section last night
  330. # [18:53] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#recent-changes
  331. # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: CVS logs available (with comments) for anyone who wants more detail http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/csswg/css3-text/Overview.src.html
  332. # [18:54] <fantasai> howcome: I sent in comments on this one, I don't think we should change the names of the hyphenation properties, particularly the main switch
  333. # [18:54] <fantasai> howcome: We reached consensus on the name in 2007
  334. # [18:57] <fantasai> ... ok with changing lesser-used propertys, mainly concerned about hyphens ...
  335. # [18:57] <Bert> (I have the feeling there are too many line/word breaking properties, with too many interdependencies, but I haven't had time yet to work through all combinations...)
  336. # [18:57] <fantasai> (It's a mess, and I agree, but there isn't much I can do about it.)
  337. # [18:58] <fantasai> howcome: I don't think the new names are better or worse, think we should hear back from implementers
  338. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai: Murakami-san liked the new hyphenation-limit names. Haven't heard back from Michael Day.
  339. # [19:00] <fantasai> plinss: Where are we?
  340. # [19:00] <fantasai> fantasai: I think I need to add hyphens property back in and nothing else
  341. # [19:00] <fantasai> howcome: And clarify word-break behavior for non-CJK scripts
  342. # [19:01] <fantasai> smfr: we implement some of the hyphenation properties
  343. # [19:01] * fantasai didn't catch everything he said
  344. # [19:01] <fantasai> smfr: hyphenate-character we support auto or a string
  345. # [19:01] <smfr> webkit supports hyphens, hyphenate-character, hyphenate-locale (with prefixes)
  346. # [19:02] <fantasai> howcome: I don't see any use cases for the second character
  347. # [19:02] <fantasai> howcome: I didn't find anything
  348. # [19:02] <glazou> bork bork bork
  349. # [19:03] <Zakim> -cesar
  350. # [19:04] <fantasai> fantasai: I think there are two advantages to publishing with two strings right now. One it's marked as an issue, we might get feedback. Other is if an implementor wants this functionality, they have some idea of how to do it.
  351. # [19:04] <fantasai> SteveZ: I have a colleague who believes that text-trim doesn't match the Japanese requirements
  352. # [19:05] <fantasai> Koji: I talked with Nat about this, and I think I explained that the way we do it is different from what InDesign does, but we have some current level of consensus.
  353. # [19:05] <fantasai> Koji: CSS3 Text is only subset of what InDesign does
  354. # [19:06] <fantasai> SteveZ: My concern is not the subsetting, but that the way it was done does not match Japanese requirements.
  355. # [19:06] <fantasai> SteveZ: Feedback was from someone other than Nat, btw.
  356. # [19:06] <fantasai> SteveZ: Don't object to publishing WD, just wanted to note this issue.
  357. # [19:06] <fantasai> Koji: I met with Yamamoto-san and Nat on Monday
  358. # [19:07] <fantasai> SteveZ: My understanding was that values would pick things out of a table.
  359. # [19:07] <fantasai> Koji: My understanding was the request was a little too much for this level.
  360. # [19:07] <fantasai> s/text-trim/text-trim or hanging-punctuation/
  361. # [19:08] <fantasai> Koji: I will talk about that with Adobe at our next meeting
  362. # [19:08] <fantasai> plinss: Do we have consensus to publish with suggested changes?
  363. # [19:08] * glazou has to go, sorry guys
  364. # [19:08] <fantasai> plinss: Or do we need to come back and review?
  365. # [19:08] <cesar> I've been disconnected by Skype. I was trying to redial but I haven't been able. I'm sorry. (I'll continue in the IRC, though).
  366. # [19:08] <glazou> bye
  367. # [19:08] <fantasai> howcome: I would like to have consensus from implementors first.
  368. # [19:08] <Zakim> -glazou
  369. # [19:09] <fantasai> Topic: CSS3 Speech
  370. # [19:09] <Zakim> -howcome
  371. # [19:09] <Zakim> -smfr
  372. # [19:09] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  373. # [19:09] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  374. # [19:09] <fantasai> plinss: Daniel Weck is preparing to request LCWD for CSS3 Speech, so please review
  375. # [19:09] <Zakim> -Bert
  376. # [19:09] <Zakim> -[Google]
  377. # [19:09] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  378. # [19:09] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  379. # [19:10] <Zakim> Attendees were +39.508.9.aaaa, glazou, +1.650.214.aabb, plinss, TabAtkins, dbaron, arronei, johnjan, fantasai, kojiishi, +1.650.275.aacc, +1.408.636.aadd, smfr, bradk, SteveZ,
  380. # [19:10] <cesar> Bye.
  381. # [19:10] <Zakim> ... cesar, +34.92.38.aaee, Tantek, Bert, +47.21.65.aaff, howcome
  382. # [19:10] * Parts: cesar (acebal@85.152.178.140)
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The end :)