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- # Session Start: Wed Mar 23 00:00:00 2011
- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [16:43] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-css-irc
- # [16:43] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
- # [16:43] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
- # [16:43] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
- # [16:43] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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- # [17:00] <glazou> Zakim, code ?
- # [17:00] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), glazou
- # [17:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- # [17:01] <Zakim> +plinss
- # [17:01] * Joins: cesar (acebal@85.152.178.140)
- # [17:01] <Zakim> + +39.508.9.aaaa
- # [17:02] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is me
- # [17:02] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [17:02] <Zakim> +[Apple]
- # [17:02] <hober> Zakim, [Apple] has hober
- # [17:02] <Zakim> +hober; got it
- # [17:03] <Zakim> + +1.949.654.aabb
- # [17:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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- # [17:04] <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aacc
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
- # [17:04] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aadd
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- # [17:04] <Zakim> +David_Baron
- # [17:05] <plinss> zakim, aadd is arno
- # [17:05] <Zakim> +arno; got it
- # [17:05] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
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- # [17:05] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
- # [17:05] <arronei> zakim, microsoft.a is me
- # [17:05] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
- # [17:05] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [17:05] * Zakim sees on the phone: plinss, glazou, [Apple], +1.949.654.aabb, [Microsoft], +1.206.675.aacc, [IPcaller], arno, David_Baron, arronei, [Microsoft.aa]
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- # [17:05] * Zakim [Apple] has hober
- # [17:05] <Zakim> + +1.858.063.aaee
- # [17:05] <johnjan> zakim, microsoft is johnjan
- # [17:05] <Zakim> +johnjan; got it
- # [17:06] <Zakim> + +1.415.920.aaff
- # [17:06] <sylvaing> zakim, [Microsoft] has johjan, sylvaing
- # [17:06] <Zakim> sorry, sylvaing, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
- # [17:06] <Zakim> +??P22
- # [17:06] <sylvaing> zakim, Microsoft has johjan, sylvaing
- # [17:06] <Zakim> sorry, sylvaing, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft'
- # [17:06] <sylvaing> zakim, Microsoft has sylvaing
- # [17:06] <Zakim> sorry, sylvaing, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft'
- # [17:06] <kojiishi> zakim, ??P22 is me
- # [17:06] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
- # [17:07] <sylvaing> zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
- # [17:07] <Zakim> sorry, sylvaing, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
- # [17:07] * sylvaing aargh
- # [17:07] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [17:07] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aagg
- # [17:07] * dbaron Zakim, johnjan is [Microsoft]
- # [17:07] * Zakim +[Microsoft]; got it
- # [17:07] * dbaron Zakim, [Microsoft] has johnjan, sylvaing
- # [17:07] * Zakim +johnjan, sylvaing; got it
- # [17:07] <bradk> zakim, aagg is me
- # [17:07] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
- # [17:07] * sylvaing yay! thanks dbaron
- # [17:07] <stearns> zakim, +1.206.675.aacc is me
- # [17:07] <Zakim> +stearns; got it
- # [17:08] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [17:08] * Zakim sees on the phone: plinss, glazou, [Apple], +1.949.654.aabb, [Microsoft], stearns, [IPcaller], arno, David_Baron, arronei, [Microsoft.aa], +1.858.063.aaee, +1.415.920.aaff,
- # [17:08] * Zakim ... kojiishi, Bert, bradk
- # [17:08] * Zakim [Apple] has hober
- # [17:08] * Zakim [Microsoft] has johnjan, sylvaing
- # [17:08] <cesar> I'm on the phone, but I don't know who is me. ;)
- # [17:08] * sylvaing soon, one member per property. imagine all the testcases...
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- # [17:09] * dbaron 949 == orange county, California ; 858 == San Diego County, California; 415 == San Francisco, California
- # [17:09] <cesar> (I'm calling through VoipBuster, to the Boston regular number.)
- # [17:10] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
- # [17:10] <fantasai> glazou: Regrets from Tab, Dave Singer, and Steve Zilles
- # [17:10] <fantasai> glazou: Any extra items for the agenda?
- # [17:10] * dbaron Zakim, mute David_Baron
- # [17:10] * Bert to cesar: try 61# on your phone and look at what Zakim says on IRC.
- # [17:10] * Zakim David_Baron should now be muted
- # [17:10] <bradk> zakim, whi is making noise?
- # [17:10] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bradk.
- # [17:10] <plinss> zakim, who is noisy?
- # [17:10] <Zakim> plinss, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (90%), arronei (62%)
- # [17:10] <fantasai> glazou: First item is next F2F. We have to decide something about next F2F meeting
- # [17:11] <fantasai> glazou: I am not really myself in favor of going to Japan. The news we receive from Japan is mixed.
- # [17:11] * dbaron Zakim, mute arronei
- # [17:11] * Zakim arronei should now be muted
- # [17:11] <fantasai> glazou: Would like to hear from all WG members what you think about that , should we try to relocate?
- # [17:11] * dbaron arronei -- I muted you due to a lot of static
- # [17:11] <fantasai> glazou: We have two alternative proposals, W3C to host in Sophia-Antipolis, or MS to host in Redmond
- # [17:12] <fantasai> sylvaing: Could also host elsewhere in Europe
- # [17:12] <fantasai> sylvaing: I'm in favor of waiting a few more weeks before making a final decision
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- # [17:12] <fantasai> sylvaing: But set up a backup, then make a final decision in 3-4 weeks
- # [17:12] <fantasai> glazou: 3-4 weeks is too late for me
- # [17:12] <fantasai> glazou: I would like to be able to book flights 2 months in advance, because otherwise airline prices go crazy
- # [17:12] <fantasai> sylvaing: In this situation, you can't predict that.
- # [17:13] <fantasai> glazou: Not speaking of Japan, in general.
- # [17:13] <fantasai> sylvaing: If we cancel Japan, we can change the date of the F2F if need be
- # [17:13] * Quits: dydz (dydz@75.36.189.233) (Quit: dydz)
- # [17:13] * dbaron Zakim, unmute David_Baron
- # [17:13] * Zakim David_Baron should no longer be muted
- # [17:13] <fantasai> sylvaing: For people who already booked for Japan, they already have a problem.
- # [17:13] <fantasai> glazou: Then we have to renegotiate dates that works for everyone.
- # [17:14] <fantasai> Bert: atm, I don't feel like going to Japan in 2 months.
- # [17:14] <fantasai> Bert: Later would work. Somewhere else would work for me too
- # [17:14] <fantasai> Arno: I'd be fine going to Japan
- # [17:14] <fantasai> Brad: I was already looking at not going to Japan due to expense.
- # [17:14] <fantasai> Brad: Even without expense, would be concerned about going there.
- # [17:15] <fantasai> ? Apple: We're likely to have more participants the closer it is to Cupertino. I'm willing to go to Japan, but others more likely to come to Redmond
- # [17:15] <fantasai> David: I have mixed feelings about Japan right now.
- # [17:15] <fantasai> David: As far as dates for Europe, I would prefer to keep current dates or earlier.
- # [17:15] <fantasai> David: Steve might be in same boat
- # [17:16] <fantasai> David: AC meeting is in May in Europe
- # [17:16] <fantasai> glazou: 15-17 of May
- # [17:16] <fantasai> sylvaing: So we would move it earlier, still need to negotiate dates.
- # [17:16] <Bert> (I checked local dates, and 23-27 May is OK for us, too)
- # [17:16] <fantasai> David: I'd be fine with current dates, too
- # [17:17] <Bert> (But not 18-20, because of several other events.)
- # [17:17] <fantasai> fantasai: I don't feel too concerned given the people from Tokyo don't seem too concerned.
- # [17:18] <dbaron> fantasai: Not available May 26-29.
- # [17:18] <bradk> my wife is more concerned about safety in Japan than I am, actually, but that counts.
- # [17:18] <fantasai> Koji: I don't think there's much problem with transportation, but some problems with electricity. Will talk to Japanese government tomorrow. Can we postpone until next week?
- # [17:18] <fantasai> glazou: OK.
- # [17:18] <fantasai> glazou: I would like to decide at least 60 days in advance.
- # [17:19] <fantasai> plinss: My concern is the Tokyo Workshop.
- # [17:19] <fantasai> plinss: If we didn't have the workshop, I would say let's just go somewhere else.
- # [17:19] <fantasai> plinss: But don't want to bail out from that, if it's still going on.
- # [17:19] <fantasai> plinss: So would like to hear about status of that
- # [17:19] <fantasai> Koji: I will talk to them tomorrow and get back to you.
- # [17:20] <fantasai> Bert: If we organize something here in Sophia, I've only asked for up to 20 people. If we need more space, will have to ask again about arrangements.
- # [17:20] * dbaron Zakim, mute David_Baron
- # [17:20] * Zakim David_Baron should now be muted
- # [17:20] <fantasai> glazou: I will send a call for attendance after the telecon
- # [17:20] <fantasai> glazou: Don't think we can do better than that for now.
- # [17:20] <fantasai> Topic: CSS2.1
- # [17:21] <fantasai> glazou: We have a few issues to revisit, due to answers to posts to www-style
- # [17:21] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1
- # [17:21] <fantasai> fantasai: I'm confused about status of dbaron's issues. There's notes in the wiki, but couldn't tell if they are closed or not.
- # [17:21] <fantasai> 199 needs WG discussion
- # [17:22] <fantasai> 203 needs WG discussion
- # [17:22] <fantasai> I need to work with Bert on 215
- # [17:23] * dbaron Zakim, unmute David_Baron
- # [17:23] * Zakim David_Baron should no longer be muted
- # [17:23] <Zakim> + +1.425.246.aahh
- # [17:23] <fantasai> fantasai: The old definition said the top left corner of the leftmost box and the bottom right of the rightmost box.
- # [17:23] <fantasai> fantasai: That works fine for bidi splitting, just have a problem with splitting across multiple lines, which needs to be undefined.
- # [17:24] * dbaron Zakim, aahh is alexmog
- # [17:24] * Zakim +alexmog; got it
- # [17:24] <fantasai> Bert: Oh, ok. I understand what needs to be done.
- # [17:24] <fantasai> 240 needs WG discussion
- # [17:24] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-240
- # [17:25] * Quits: alexmog (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
- # [17:25] <fantasai> fantasai: Issue is undefining min-/max- width/height on table elements.
- # [17:26] <fantasai> fantasai: We stated undefined for internal elements, but missed table and inline-table.
- # [17:26] <dbaron> I agree min/max-width should be undefined for table and inline-table
- # [17:26] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Make table and inline-table undefined for min/max-width/height
- # [17:26] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@114.51.29.230) (Quit: jdaggett)
- # [17:27] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-199
- # [17:27] <fantasai> fantasai: Edits introduced a regression in the spec
- # [17:28] <fantasai> fantasai: Proposal in the wiki
- # [17:30] * sylvaing also unless I missed it ISSUE-276 still needs resolution; Peter Moulder prefers :first-line/:first-letter to be pulled like run-in
- # [17:31] <fantasai> dbaron: I don't understand what you mean by static position here.
- # [17:32] <fantasai> dbaron: The static position only refers to abspos elements.
- # [17:32] <fantasai> dbaron: But we need this for floats as well.
- # [17:33] <fantasai> fantasai: What if we removed the word "static"?
- # [17:33] <fantasai> dbaron: That's fine.
- # [17:34] * glazou still remembers the day dbaron joined the WG and impressed everyone quoting not only sections just from memort but also paragraph in sections... :-)
- # [17:34] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010May/0698.html
- # [17:34] <dbaron> I think it should just say "position" rather than "static position"
- # [17:35] <fantasai> fantasai: So does this still solve the original issue?
- # [17:36] <fantasai> dbaron: So the issue is about having this line box not exist for determining the baseline
- # [17:36] <fantasai> dbaron: Yes, I think this text takes care of that issue.
- # [17:37] <fantasai> glazou: Any objections to using this text?
- # [17:37] <fantasai> Arron: I think the text is fine if we remove 'static' just like dbaron says.
- # [17:37] <fantasai> Arron: We do mean any positioning, not just static position for abspos elements.
- # [17:38] <dbaron> Arron: ... talking about Elika's final text at bottom of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0530.html
- # [17:39] <fantasai> Bert: I'm not sure it's correct. What is the position of something in a zero-height line box? Where is the baseline in that?
- # [17:39] <fantasai> fantasai: I imagine it would be the position of the line box.
- # [17:39] <fantasai> fantasai: We could further clarify by saying that the height of all boxes inside that line boxes is also zero.
- # [17:40] * sylvaing glazou, arronei does the same thing....with the testcase file names
- # [17:40] <fantasai> Bert: If they are zero-height, are they zero line-height?
- # [17:40] <glazou> sylvaing: eh
- # [17:40] <fantasai> fantasai: yes
- # [17:41] * Quits: mihara (mihara@121.119.232.1) (Quit: Leaving...)
- # [17:41] <fantasai> Bert: Let's take the text, I'll think about it a little more, but the problem is with how tables work, really, which leads to these strange constructions.
- # [17:42] <fantasai> Bert: Was it Anton that asked if this also applied to shortened line boxes next to floats?
- # [17:42] <fantasai> Bert: Or is that solved in some other way?
- # [17:42] <Zakim> +ChrisL
- # [17:43] <fantasai> fantasai: Line boxes next to floats either contain content, in which case this section doesn't apply, or they don't contain content, in which case content in them moves down until it fits.
- # [17:43] <fantasai> Bert: Let's do it and see what happens. We have errata if needed.
- # [17:43] * Joins: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169)
- # [17:44] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Accept proposal at bottom of email
- # [17:44] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-203
- # [17:44] <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
- # [17:44] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-css-irc#T16-40-44
- # [17:44] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35)
- # [17:44] <fantasai> fantasai: I don't understand this issue.
- # [17:47] <fantasai> dbaron: I don't think I'm going to get my head into this issue within the duration of the telecon, certainly. It's very complicated.
- # [17:48] <johnjan> as far as I can tell, here's the latest: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0431.html
- # [17:49] <fantasai> glazou: Then let's defer this until we have more information.
- # [17:49] <fantasai> glazou: Let's move on to other problems.
- # [17:49] <fantasai> fantasai: plinss said we are missing passes for bidi-004a
- # [17:50] <fantasai> http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/bidi-004a.htm
- # [17:50] <fantasai> dbaron: I thought there were additional changes to make to the white space in that test
- # [17:50] <fantasai> fantasai: I thought I made those changes
- # [17:51] <fantasai> Arron: Yes. The changes are correct wrt what we said we wanted to change at the last meeting.
- # [17:51] <fantasai> plinss: Opera doesn't put white space between "ccc" and "ddd"
- # [17:51] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35) (Ping timeout)
- # [17:52] <fantasai> plinss: It does if you add a space right after 'ccc' in the test case, I believe.
- # [17:52] <fantasai> Arron: Opera still has the padding bug on the middle line
- # [17:54] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35)
- # [17:54] <fantasai> ...
- # [17:54] <fantasai> Arron: IE9 passes
- # [17:54] <fantasai> fantasai: How does FF fail?
- # [17:54] <stearns> FF4 ends up with 5 lines
- # [17:54] <fantasai> dbaron: shrink-wrap calculation fails
- # [17:55] <fantasai> dbaron: I'm not sure if the white space change was what was intended. Maybe needed to drop the opposite space.
- # [17:56] * Joins: alexmog_at_crappy (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
- # [17:57] <fantasai> dbaron discusses various FF bugs demonstrated by the testcase
- # [17:57] <fantasai> Arron: With that change, IE now fails
- # [17:58] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [17:58] * sylvaing needs to run a little early....
- # [17:58] * alexmog slaps alexmog_at_crappy around a bit with a large trout
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +??P8
- # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, ??P8 is me
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [17:59] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
- # [17:59] * Quits: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.80) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [18:01] <Zakim> -alexmog
- # [18:01] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35) (Ping timeout)
- # [18:02] * Quits: alexmog_at_crappy (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
- # [18:05] <Zakim> -arno
- # [18:05] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [18:06] <fantasai> No hope of passes.
- # [18:06] <fantasai> plinss: Need some kind of strategy.
- # [18:06] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
- # [18:06] * Joins: howcome (howcome@213.236.208.22)
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -[Apple]
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:06] <Zakim> - +1.949.654.aabb
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -arronei
- # [18:06] <Zakim> - +1.858.063.aaee
- # [18:06] <fantasai> Meeting closed.
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
- # [18:06] * Quits: duga (duga@74.125.59.129) (Quit: duga)
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -David_Baron
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -ChrisL
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -Bert
- # [18:06] * Quits: johnjan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
- # [18:06] <Zakim> -kojiishi
- # [18:07] <arronei> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2011Mar/att-0210/_CSS21_last-call.htm
- # [18:07] <cesar> zakim, IPcaller is me
- # [18:07] <Zakim> sorry, cesar, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
- # [18:09] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
- # [18:09] <Zakim> -bradk
- # [18:09] * Parts: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19)
- # [18:12] * Parts: cesar (acebal@85.152.178.140)
- # [18:13] * Quits: shan (soonbo.han@111.118.53.146) (Quit: shan)
- # [18:16] * Quits: oyvinds (oyvinds@78.8.250.60) (Quit: oyvinds)
- # [18:18] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Quit: Fire on main board error, client combusted)
- # [18:24] * Parts: howcome (howcome@213.236.208.22)
- # [18:24] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
- # [18:25] * Quits: stearns (stearns@192.150.22.5) (Ping timeout)
- # [18:41] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@173.228.28.143) (Ping timeout)
- # [18:47] * Joins: Hixie (ianh@129.241.93.37)
- # [18:58] * Joins: Arron (arronei@131.107.0.102)
- # [18:59] * Quits: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.87) (Ping timeout)
- # [19:04] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.240)
- # [19:07] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
- # [19:08] <Zakim> - +1.415.920.aaff
- # [19:08] <Zakim> -plinss
- # [19:08] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
- # [19:10] * Joins: h0x0r (84f85e2f@207.192.75.252)
- # [19:13] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, stearns, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
- # [19:13] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [19:13] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, +39.508.9.aaaa, glazou, hober, +1.949.654.aabb, [IPcaller], +1.415.832.aadd, David_Baron, arno, arronei, +1.858.063.aaee, +1.415.920.aaff, kojiishi, Bert,
- # [19:13] <Zakim> ... +1.650.275.aagg, johnjan, sylvaing, bradk, stearns, +1.425.246.aahh, alexmog, ChrisL
- # [19:15] <h0x0r> hi there!!
- # [19:16] * Quits: h0x0r (84f85e2f@207.192.75.252) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
- # [19:37] * Quits: Martijnc (Martijnc@91.176.193.91) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:47] * Joins: Martijnc (Martijnc@91.176.214.219)
- # [20:26] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
- # [20:26] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
- # [22:09] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Ping timeout)
- # [22:09] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
- # [22:45] * Quits: Martijnc (Martijnc@91.176.214.219) (Quit: Martijnc)
- # [22:48] * Quits: kennyluck (kennyluck@128.30.52.169) (Ping timeout)
- # [22:53] * Joins: jdaggett (jdaggett@114.51.171.216)
- # [23:02] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@114.51.171.216) (Quit: jdaggett)
- # [23:07] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [23:08] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
- # [23:09] * Joins: homata_ (homata_@58.158.182.50)
- # [23:12] * Joins: homata (homata@58.158.182.50)
- # [23:48] * Joins: kennyluck (kennyluck@128.30.52.169)
- # Session Close: Thu Mar 24 00:00:00 2011
The end :)